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Having an issue with my front tire on my 1989 FJ. It's an Avon Storm (stock size) and it has less than 4000 miles on it. It seems to be wearing on both intermediate sides but not in the center. Although it seems to be wearing more on one side than the other, I am confused why I have this odd wear.
I have had the tire re-balanced recently. Bearings are new within 3 months and don't seem to be dragging. Axle bolt is torqued to correct spec. I don't feel any brake drag (but it's totally possible I just don't notice it). Does not shake when driving or when braking. I do not do any aggressive cornering, and most of my riding is in a straight line at about 70-85 mph. Forks have been upgraded to straight rate springs and rebuilt within the last year.
Hopefully I've explained in enough detail. Any thoughts on what I should check? Could it be I just got a bum tire after all those miles? TIA.
It's not you, it's the FJ. Seems that the 17" 3.00x17 wheel likes to "cup" the front tire. A lot is caused by under inflation or just incorrect inflation of the front tire. I see it on my Dunlop Roadsmart as well. If you are burning through the corners like I am, this is normal.
The only difference is that I have 3500 miles on my Dunlop Roadsmart and it's just beginning to show this type of wear. I have never used an Avon so I have no real idea of how they wear.
I do know that the Dunlop D-205 only lasted about 4k miles on my bike before I felt it needed replacement. The Roadsmart looks to go over 6K at it's present wear. If you would like a pic, let me know.
Sorry about that,
CraigO
How much air pressure are you running?
Itis very possible that you have a defective tire. Tires sometimes come out of the factory with poor compounding or poor vulcanizing both of which can create excessive and premature wear. Look for cracks as well in the sidewall. Call Avon and ask them to stand behind their product, replace the tire for free.
Quote from: Flyover Country Joe on October 04, 2011, 06:28:07 PM
How much air pressure are you running?
I normally run 39 or 40 psi. Think I should run higher?
Quote from: terryk on October 04, 2011, 06:42:51 PM
Itis very possible that you have a defective tire. Tires sometimes come out of the factory with poor compounding or poor vulcanizing both of which can create excessive and premature wear. Look for cracks as well in the sidewall. Call Avon and ask them to stand behind their product, replace the tire for free.
I thought about giving them a call, but wanted to check out everything on the bike before doing so.
Looks like normal FJ wear to me, they're awfully hard on front tires. If it's really bad on one side vs the other, look at the fork condition, but that looks mostly even.
If you really wind it up, you'll start getting a weave at high speeds, and as it gets worse the speed at which it happens gets lower. A little more pressure might help slightly, but it's not abnormal. Something about spindly forks, the "wrong" rim width, and a fair bit of weight all have been blamed for this happening.
Personally, I figure that it's going to happen to whatever tire I put on, so I use softer tires and enjoy the grip they have. They're just gonna wear out anyhow, y`know?
I have that on my tire (Avon Azarro ST) but it didn't show up until about 12K miles. Its a combination of braking force and left of center tread wear, due to riding on the right side of the road (and higher number of left turns vs right turns; I had the opposite side wear shown when I lived in NZ)
I've seen something like it eventually on every front tire I've had on a bike. I've found that bias ply tires will cup more at the outer edges where I'll see the immediately off center wear on the radials I've had on various bikes.
Its worrisome that it happened so soon; Like I said it's taken at least 12K miles for the two sets of Avons I've had to show this on my FJ, so perhaps you should take some pics and see what Avon says.
Quote from: Scooterbob on October 04, 2011, 05:23:27 PM
Having an issue with my front tire on my 1989 FJ. It's an Avon Storm (stock size) and it has less than 4000 miles on it. It seems to be wearing on both intermediate sides but not in the center. Although it seems to be wearing more on one side than the other, I am confused why I have this odd wear.
I have had the tire re-balanced recently. Bearings are new within 3 months and don't seem to be dragging. Axle bolt is torqued to correct spec. I don't feel any brake drag (but it's totally possible I just don't notice it). Does not shake when driving or when braking. I do not do any aggressive cornering, and most of my riding is in a straight line at about 70-85 mph. Forks have been upgraded to straight rate springs and rebuilt within the last year.
Hopefully I've explained in enough detail. Any thoughts on what I should check? Could it be I just got a bum tire after all those miles? TIA.
The FJ is hard on soft front tires, here is my report on my new Avons after 3500 miles in the twisty roads of SoCal. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=287.msg2088#msg2088 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=287.msg2088#msg2088)
I think I'll put the pressure up to 41 and see if that helps to slow down the damage at all. I will double check the milage too, just to make sure my figures are correct. If I'm right on milage, I will attempt talking with Avon and see what they do.
Thanks for the input everyone. Looks like it's only a short matter of time before another tire is to be ordered. :cray:
For what it's worth, I've got the same tire with 5000 + miles, used commuting and touring, has been run at 38psi, and has what looks to be a similar wear pattern.
Mark
My 86 has a Metzeler MEZ front tire with about the same miles on it and it looks the same as yours.
An MEZ-2? They haven't made that tire for about 10 years!
I thought I was the only one running relic tires. I currently have an MEZ-2 on the rear of my '93. I think the manufacture date is '01 or '02. It's not holding up very well. 2 trips to Arkansas and it's almost shot. Then I get to install my "new" D-205 which was manufactured in '04!
DavidR.
Yeah, I know the tires are old. Shortly after I put them on, the bike sat in the corner of my shop for about 6yrs. I got it back out a couple of years ago and ride it regularly now. First thing I do to it next spring is get new tires. I hear the Avon Azaro's are decent.
I don't feel so bad now, with my 2002 dated Lasertecs! I was strongly considering the Avons for my next set of tires, but might be reconsidering them now. The 17" rear whel swap is moving up on the FJ mod priority list :dance:
Quote from: Flyover Country Joe on October 05, 2011, 03:20:10 PM
I don't feel so bad now, with my 2002 dated Lasertecs! I was strongly considering the Avons for my next set of tires, but might be reconsidering them now. The 17" rear whel swap is moving up on the FJ mod priority list :dance:
I think that the Azarro St is an awesome tire. They wear well, have tenacious grip, are very predictable and do better in the wet than any other tire I've had on a bike to date. I'm looking at putting in at least 15K for this year by Halloween , and I've ridden on damn near every surface (including gravel and dirt roads) and in every type of weather, including light snow and I couldn't be more pleased. Today I'm at a little over 14K miles on the front and the rear lasted almost 10K. I'm definitely sold on Avon tires.
I think the Azaro ST is crap. The rear took all day to get hot, spun like hell until it got there, and got changed someplace around 4500mi in. Admittedly, I raced on it some, but it ain't half shit next to the BT-021 or even the Angel that my other bike is wearing (the FJ went to a drag tire), which saw 6500mi comfortably, and also were raced on.
So fooey to you. 17" wheels are the cat's ass.
(note/disclaimer: I also don't like Avon's because I highsided a friend's VFR on a set of their "sport" tires while at walking speed, 3krpm in first gear on a 750 broke it loose uncontrollably when cold. And seriously guys, ride on tires that were designed in the past year or two and you will absolutely shit yourself with how good they are by comparison.)
(other note/disclaimer: The above doesn't apply to David, who likely is still looking for the classic white rubber speedway tires.... :empathy3: )
from the pic id say that you need to upgrade your pressure guage!!!!
i see this kind of wear in the shop all thew time.....classic symptom of low pressure....
some tires, especially the newer light-weight casing radials will tend to have a "tire memory".....if a wear patteren is established from a balance issue, low air, crooked wheel....etc., it will continue to wear like that even after the problem is corrected...
I just replaced a set of Avon's with laser tecs.
My Avon's I thought when I got them seemed real good, but tire wear started to show within 1000 mi. My front wore both sides like the one in the pic but the rear looks like it was on a cruiser not a sport bike.
You would not belive they came of the same bike. I got 4500ish miles on them, little dissapointed in that.
The dunlops that were on it were much flatter which allowed me to ride further over (no chicken stripes) the avons were way to round.
I rode it with 38 rr 40 ft any higher they felt hard as rock, like solid rubber. I did up the pressure when I started riding more double. I'm 205 lbs she's 105 lbs that's not very heavy.
I'm no racer boy on the street, I ride hard and use mostly front brakes. We have a very pronounced crown to our roads here in Maine. I could see that wearing out the left side but not both.
But if I have to replace tires every year for KOOKALOO that's what I will do.
Bob W
I hate the Avons. I went through a few sets and was never satisfied as the front cupped every time and the mileage is weak. It was tire frustration that started me looking at wheel changes etc for my FJ.
I wanted to use the Bridgestone BT-023 Battleaxe but the don't come in the right sizes for stock FJ's......
The R1 parts I installed came with some cheap tires that had low miles so I am wearing them out and then its a B-line to the BT-023's....
tim
http://www.amazon.com/Bridgestone-Battlax-BT-023-Sport-Touring/dp/B003FSECW6 (http://www.amazon.com/Bridgestone-Battlax-BT-023-Sport-Touring/dp/B003FSECW6)
Sadly, the BT-021 had some front tire problems as well, though I understand it was improved with the -023. Mostly a problem if you ride a lot of slab, they ended up getting a strange profile which hurt their feel on turnin a bit. Not bad if you leaned over hard, but on sweepers it could get irritating.
The 21's I ran only lasted 6500mi or so before I pulled them because of it. Still, beats the crap out of what I was getting on everything else.
(other note/disclaimer: The above doesn't apply to David, who likely is still looking for the classic white rubber speedway tires.... :empathy3: )
[/quote] (popcorn) :rofl: That ought to get a response...... :bomb:
+1 for the battalax!!
i loooove these on the fzr!!!
btw, hey flyover....where xzatcly in the ozarks are you???....before i moved to tn, i was a "regular-abuser" of the pig-trail/hwy 23...lolol
I'll have ya'll know that the Harley rear tire is officially retired (there's a pun in there somewhere).
Replaced (finally) with a 17" YZF rear wheel wearing a stylish Michelin Pilot Road II CT. Just about to mount up the matching front tire.
DavidR.
My sad little tire secret is that I've got a flat spotted ME880 off of one of my employee's Harley's, hanging from the shop rafters, just waiting to be melted down in a moment of stupidity. Probably after I have an unused 16" wheel hanging around. Ninjamuder, I'm in Clinton, Ar. home of the 1st Annual Redneck Games, this very weekend. I'm probably going to start a "Strange Arkansas Customs" thread, somewhat similar to Lotsokids "Strange Hungarian Customs". The material just keeps presenting itself.........
heh...small world......i was born and raised in van buren, right across the river from fort smith..........moved out this-a-way last nov.
seen the redneck games a few times......never fails to amaze........ :crazy:
Quote from: andyb on October 06, 2011, 08:31:18 AM
I think the Azaro ST is crap. The rear took all day to get hot, spun like hell until it got there, and got changed someplace around 4500mi in. Admittedly, I raced on it some, but it ain't half shit next to the BT-021 or even the Angel that my other bike is wearing (the FJ went to a drag tire), which saw 6500mi comfortably, and also were raced on.
So fooey to you.
Dude, you sound like my nephew. He's in Kindergarten.
Perhaps you should warm a tire up before you go all "Isle of Man TT" on a bike, with any tire from any manufacturer. Cold tires often make cowboys look like fools.
Funny, I never had a problem riding cold tires on my friend's VFR, and neither does he (he's the one who recommended the Avons to me), so I guess ones mileage does vary...
I'm not typically one for running street tires on the track but I've had the FJ at a couple of track days with the Avons on and they did rather well for a set of sport touring tires with about 6k on them at the time. But perhaps the planets were in alignment when I was out there. Who knows?
The Avons work for me on this bike, and frankly that's all that matters.
Quote from: andyb on October 06, 2011, 09:48:14 AM
Sadly, the BT-021 had some front tire problems as well, though I understand it was improved with the -023. Mostly a problem if you ride a lot of slab, they ended up getting a strange profile which hurt their feel on turnin a bit. Not bad if you leaned over hard, but on sweepers it could get irritating.
The 21's I ran only lasted 6500mi or so before I pulled them because of it. Still, beats the crap out of what I was getting on everything else.
Andy the -021's were noted as (and complained about) showing early signs of wear. The -023 was designed to reduce shoulder wear on the front. Also worth noting that the REAR tires are triple compound tires providing much better durability in the center and more grip and flexibility on the shoulders. The fronts are single compound.
The "GT" -023's: Bridgestone is producing a "Grand Touring" tire in the -023 for heavy bikes... If I knew I was going to do some serious touring two up or with luggage this would be the set to go to....
All in I have tried most of the Metzlers, most of the Avons (Venom's were my choice) and the Battleaxe -023's has them all beat. I put them on my vintage bikes and loved them so I tried to get the GT set for the FJ and they were unavailable.... That's why I left the Cheng Shin crap on the R1 rims for now.....
Quote from: E Double on October 06, 2011, 04:49:29 PM
Dude, you sound like my nephew. He's in Kindergarten.
I'm glad you found a way to feel superior!
QuotePerhaps you should warm a tire up before you go all "Isle of Man TT" on a bike, with any tire from any manufacturer. Cold tires often make cowboys look like fools.
Funny, I never had a problem riding cold tires on my friend's VFR, and neither does he (he's the one who recommended the Avons to me), so I guess ones mileage does vary...
Breaking the tire loose at walking speed, with no more than quarter throttle? Guess I am a cowboy, a menace to society! I don't run anything hard until the oil's warm, but I found the Avon's that I used to grip as badly as my old Dunlop K591's.
Quote
The Avons work for me on this bike, and frankly that's all that matters.
That's good! They didn't work for me on this bike. That's the point I'm making. If you haven't used a modern tire (say, 08 or newer design), you are absolutely missing out. When I first converted my FJ to 17" wheels, I used BT-56's, having had good luck with them on another bike. They were everything I expected, grip was vastly more than I'm capable of using, and even cold were quite sticky and very confidence inspiring. They also wore terribly quickly, and needed changed as often as my engine oil. That tire was a late 90's design if memory serves. By comparison, the last two modern tires that I've tried (the Pirelli Angel ST and the Bridgestone BT-021) have every bit the same amount of grip--well, as much as I dare to try to use--and work very well cold. The difference is, I'm getting somewhere between double and triple the mileage from them.
I do try to get my tires to operating temperature before using them hard (and like I said, I don't abuse the motor before it's warm anyhow), but panic stops and emergency avoidance manuvers can happen at any time, even with cold tires. The older tires that I've used don't hold a candle to the newer ones that I've used in this regard, as they're either not very grippy when cold (slick enough to be occasionally unsafe, I mean), or they didn't last for beans.
When I used K591's on a CBR1000 that I used to own, I thought they were great. Then I tried a set of BT56's, and it turns out that spinning the tire at 80mph isn't a sign of a spectacular engine, but a sign of a crappy tire. The BT56's were the first tire that gave me a real feeling of confidence, right from the end of my driveway. I get that same confidence from the -021's and the Pirelli's (though I did think the 21's were better overall). Tire technology has been improving at an astonishing rate in the past decades! A true sport tire of the modern generation probably wouldn't feel that different to me in terms of grip, as the sport touring tires I've used are all quite a lot better than I am.
A great rider on poor tires will probably be faster than a poor rider on good tires. But there are times where you're not 100% for any reason, and having that extra cushion of better rubber can make a big difference in your outcome.
With all that said, the other thing to remember is the various profiles used by different companies. I seem to feel that the feedback, turnin, and stability is best with Bridgestone, didn't care as much for the Avon's, and have definitely not been satisfied with Dunlops (once I'd tried a few brands, at least!). That's more of a personal preference than anything, and depends on what you like, what roads you ride, your bike's setup, and so on.
Swapping to 17" wheels will give you the option to try any number of the newer radials, and I firmly think that the newer tires are spectacularly better than what was new five years ago. If you're happy with what you've got now, great! If you're happy with what you use now because you haven't had better yet, then there's an amazing treat in store for you.
Quote from: andyb on October 06, 2011, 06:20:06 PM
I'm glad you found a way to feel superior!
Feeling superior certainly isn't the point.
I've had two tread delaminations on two separate occasions while having Goodyear tires on cars in the past. You couldn't give me another set. Yet, when someone else praises their Goodyear tires (for whatever reason), I don't tell them I think the tires are "crap" and then top it off with "So fooey to you." If asked, I'll say that I don't like their tires and explain why. Nothing more, or less.
If you think saying something like "fooey to you" does not imply that my opinion has no meaning (and therefore, makes your opinion superior) is not childish, then hey, you keep right on doing what, and how you do.
I'll continue to respect your opinion about tires, yet note that you presented it in a childish manner, and move on from there.