I have a 1986 FJ1200 that i bought and was running great. I recently put a Vance and Hines header on it and it was still working great but i figured it would be running a little lean so i planned on changing the jets. I also planned on checking the valves to see how they were while i had the tank off. Heres where the problem began.
I did the valves and found that alot of them were too tight so i changed the shims and got them as close as i could. I then took the breather box off and found that a mouse had made a nest in it...lol It was full of insulation and bird feathers. I cleaned it out. Then i looked at the carbs and there was a ton of gunk in the float bowl...surprised it ran with all that gunk but the bike would do 260kmph no prob and had tons of acceleration.
So....I cleaned it all out but accidentally broke the float bowl rod holding the float on (trying to get the pins out). I then got a carb off a 1985 FJ1100 and put all my jets in and cleaned it out. I also verified the float levels were good for a 1986 and that that all the rubber inlet stubs and breather box connections were tight. On the 1985 carbs someone had drilled out the mixture screw plugs so i made sure that they were all out 2 full turns and checked my 1986 carbs and they seemed the same.
Now the bike runs like crap...the plugs are really black and wet. The bike runs with the choke on but when i take it off the bike will eventually stall. I tried playing with the mixture screws, turning them out and in some turns while the bike is running but to no avail. I am trying to get some vaccum guages to check carb sync but i am feeling that maybe thats not the problem. Inspection of all the vaccum lines and carb hoses seems good. I have no idea. Could the valves be out and causing this problem? Help please. I dont know what to do.... The jets are 40 for a pilot, 160 for the Main Air and 112.5 for the Mains and everything appears to be fine with the carbs but it runs really rough. When i give it a crack just after letting the choke off it revs up pretty good but still...something isnt right. PLEASE HELP ME...this is driving me nuts.
PS- I never did get to change the needle but it looks ok upon inspection and the specs say the needle is the same from the 1985 carb to the 1986...that and the floats are the only thing i never changed up from the 86 to the 85.
kmph? What area are you from?
Oh and give an intro to everyone so we can find out a bit more about you,
Otherwise the godfathers will soon be here with excellent advice although it may be the floats, I remember when I had a problem with my bike the floats and needle were stuck to open(the bike was knocked onto its side) and petrol was leaking and so on. The sound that came from the bike with just 1 stuck float was horrendous, it was low on power etc. When I had got the floats right the bike purred and all was well. So maybe if more than 1 float were set in the wrong position or didnt match the needles it would feed less power to the engine causing the bike to bog down without choke. I am probably wrong but the guys will chime in soon
I'm from Canada. One more thing i wanted to meation was that the bike sounds like its missing...
Check your spark plugs and make sure they are covered correctly. Also check and make sure that all pipes under the fuel tank (i think there are 2) one for the fuel and I think the other is a breather that connects to something as well. I remember when I forgot to connect the breather it sucked in air which made it misfire a lot. also when I hadnt covered the spark properly it was misfiring
You say the plugs are black and wet. So I would start there and replace them all. Also make sure that no fuel or oil pisses on them
I checked the plugs to see if they all had spark and they do. The connections are all good. and the #1 and #2 cylinders have the vaccum lines that go to the TCI unit and one goes to the fuel petcock. Aside from the fuel line...nothing else is connected to the carb...all the other lines are just vent lines i believe and none of those are blocked or kinked.
I can definitely change the plugs out for new ones. Would the valves be doing this if they arent right on? When you say cover the spark plugs do you mean make sure they have good cap connections?
On another side note....the #4 plug looks ok compared to the rest...
Quote from: Blurrman on September 22, 2011, 07:14:13 AM
I checked the plugs to see if they all had spark and they do. The connections are all good. and the #1 and #2 cylinders have the vaccum lines that go to the TCI unit and one goes to the fuel petcock. Aside from the fuel line...nothing else is connected to the carb...all the other lines are just vent lines i believe and none of those are blocked or kinked.
I can definitely change the plugs out for new ones. Would the valves be doing this if they arent right on? When you say cover the spark plugs do you mean make sure they have good cap connections?
On another side note....the #4 plug looks ok compared to the rest...
Yes the connections is what I meant, if its none of the things I have mentioned the I cant be of any help and if the valves arent correctly on I should think it may cause some problems. Its like having carbs that arent synced correctly, so check your fittings, make sure your seals are still fine and check if the carbs are synced correctly, if not it can skrew with the idle mixture and maybe cause the bike to run lean. Otherwise the other guys will soon chime in. As I mentioned I don t know much and what Ive mentioned is stuff I have picked up from them
Yo South Africa (do you have a name?)
SLOW DOWN! You're turning this into a social site which is NOT helping anyone.
Unless you have a good understanding of the person's problem, stop just spouting stuff you've read. Again (see your other thread) you're already injecting noise into this guy's problem. I don't want to have to spend 30 minutes sorting through crap to try to help someone.
Get over to the sidelines and learn a few more things first.
Sorry to be so blunt, but rattling off a bunch of random guesses and blowing this up into another 3 pages is helping no one.
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 22, 2011, 01:09:54 PM
Yo South Africa (do you have a name?)
SLOW DOWN! You're turning this into a social site which is NOT helping anyone.
Unless you have a good understanding of the person's problem, stop just spouting stuff you've read. Again (see your other thread) you're already injecting noise into this guy's problem. I don't want to have to spend 30 minutes sorting through crap to try to help someone.
Get over to the sidelines and learn a few more things first.
Sorry to be so blunt, but rattling off a bunch of random guesses and blowing this up into another 3 pages is helping no one.
Well said, David. Exactly what I was thinking but you put it a lot better and far more politely than I would have.
Blurrman,
Are all the plugs black and wet? If so, then you're getting too much fuel. Could be a needle seat or a bad float. First things first and a little more background.
Are you sure the valves are done correctly?
Did it run well after you cleaned the mouse out or before you stored it?
Did you only swap one carb?
Did you completely disassembly the carbs for cleaning, or just spray out the float bowls?
What are the symptoms when it stalls after closing the choke?
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 22, 2011, 09:50:27 PM
Blurrman,
Are all the plugs black and wet? If so, then you're getting too much fuel. Could be a needle seat or a bad float. First things first and a little more background.
Are you sure the valves are done correctly?
Did it run well after you cleaned the mouse out or before you stored it?
Did you only swap one carb?
Did you completely disassembly the carbs for cleaning, or just spray out the float bowls?
What are the symptoms when it stalls after closing the choke?
DavidR.
Slowguy, thanks for taking the time. I'll put this in point form so its easier.
1)All the plugs are pretty black and one is wet. I am not sure if they are wet because of using the choke so much or not.
2) i checked the valves like 15x before i made any changes. I was pretty sure they were spot on.
3) i never ran the bike after i discovered the nest in the breather box. After i changed the exhaust i planned on re-jetting because the plugs were getting a little white . When i seen the nest i just assumed that bigger jets were going to make it run richer and cleaning out the nest would make it la little leaner. Maybe i should have stopped and ran it a little bit with the breather cleaned out but thats hindsight i guess.
4) i cleaned out the carnbs all together, removing all the jets and neeleds etc. The only thing i didnt do was take off the floats because the pin holding the floats on is siezed in there pretty good.
5)The symptoms of the bike after were that it would run with choke but when i took the choke off it slowly idled down to a stall.
I was planning tonight to re-check the valves again. Something must be off and it could be just that. I also got/made a sync guage that i was gonna use to check the sync of the carbs to make sure they are all ok...just to rule everything out i guess. I also got new plugs that i want to put in to ensure that the plugs arent fouled up in any way. Its gotta be the valves that are off. Would that cause this all? Hopefully it hasnt damaged anything permanently...?
Thanks again for your time !
Blurman,
It is very unllikely you have damaged anything permanently.
The valves are probably either correct or close enough that they won't be the cause of your current difficulty.
On engines that use a "wasted spark" ignition, (where the plug fires at TDC on both compression and exhaust stroke)
the plugs tend to look slightly hotter than ideal.
DavidR is the resident Carb Guru, so you're best waiting for him to reply with specific carb recommendations.
Cheers,
Arnie
The only way you're going to have the valves give you wet, black plugs is if they're so ungodly tight that you have no compression and aren't able to light things off. You can pop the cover and check them, but your problem is a carb problem most likely.
I really hate to say this, but if you didn't get the floats off then that means you didn't replace the needle seat o-rings, which like to leak when they get old. Also you may have flushed trash onto the needle itself potentially causing other leak sources.
Did you try the "carbs upside-down while blowing into the fuel inlet hose test?" That would tell you if you have any seeping needle seat o-rings or a stuck float.
Take a deep breath, and take your time.
DavidR.
Hola
Try starting the bike connecting an auxiliary fuel tank(i.e. a big srynge connected to the fuel line without the plunger) and the vacumm hose blocked. If the bike start to leak fuel thought the carb vent hoses you have a problem with the float bowls or the float bowls valves
Clean everything carefully. Little particles of dirt inside 2 float valves near got me crazy last month with my CBX 750: the symptoms were similar: 2 plugs wet and black (I thought the problem was a faulty coil) and the bike stalling. With the vacuum fuel pump (only open when engine started) I didn´t detect the problem until I connected the auxiliary tank... after buying 1 coil and dismount everything 3 times, and the CBX airbox is a nightmare to refit :dash2:
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on September 23, 2011, 04:14:33 PM
I really hate to say this, but if you didn't get the floats off then that means you didn't replace the needle seat o-rings, which like to leak when they get old. Also you may have flushed trash onto the needle itself potentially causing other leak sources.
Did you try the "carbs upside-down while blowing into the fuel inlet hose test?" That would tell you if you have any seeping needle seat o-rings or a stuck float.
Take a deep breath, and take your time.
DavidR.
What is the "carbs upside-down while blowing into the fuel inlet hose test?" You just mean bow in and check to see that they are fully closing and blocking? If the needle was sticking then in the past, bikes that have that happen usually start leaking out the vent tubes,,,,i"m having no leak.
Update:
Ok, so i managed to take the carbs apart one more time and frigged with the floats till i could get the pins out. Managed to clean it all out and the gunk in there was unbelievable. So i reassembled and managed to get my hand on a DynoJet Stage kit. Now i have a different problem that i am sure you can help me with.....
So i made sure i put an inline fuel filter on the bike to make sure i didnt have to clean the carbs again. Having said that i inspected the jets that i had...and jets from a parts bike and decided that since the parts bike had a DynoJet kit in it....i would install that. Heres what i did:
1) Used the DynoJet Needles and springs (clip position#2)
2) used the 114 Main jet instead of my 112.5 jet
3) stayed with the stock pilot jet (37.5) and the main air jet (155)
4) turned the mixture screws 3 turns from seated position
After all this i took the bike for a run and it went really fast and worked really well. The next day i went to take the bike to work and at about 1/4 throttle...the bike would bog out and almost want to stall. I then thought that maybe there was a kink in the fuel line and sure enough...it was kinked a little. I then looked at the plugs and the plugs look white....I then thought that maybe that was because of the kinked line.
I managed to shortin the fuel line and make it so it wouldnt kink but no fix. It still bogs at 1/4 throttle. It idles really nice other than that. Could this be a jet problem or what? I took the needles back out and set the DynoJet needles on the 3rd position instead of the 2nd thinking it would give it more fuel but still no fix.
Am i missing something? I tried adjusting the mixture screws but anything more than 3 turns and the bike runs like crap.
If you could help me with this i would greatly appreciate it!!! Thanks
Darren :wacko3:
That 114 jet is a DynoJet size, so while it seems like it's slightly bigger than a 112.5, they're not directly comparable.
On the 86, I'm not certain that a inline fuel filter is a good idea, they're exceptionally sensitive to fuel line routing. Ridiculously so.
I'm sorry, but I didn't see if you had pods or an airbox on that bike. With the exhaust if you have pods I can take a clear guess to say that you don't have big enough pilot jets. 40's will be closer, but even a 42.5 might be necessary.
If the bog occurs during high demand at low speed (example: third gear, 2500rpm at steady throttle, then snap open to half throttle or more) I would suggest looking at float height as the culprit. If it's surging at a steady state condition (say 4th gear at 2000rpm on reasonably flat), then I'd look at pilot jets and mix screws (and possibly a worn chain, which feels damned similar sometimes).
From what you describe and assuming a little bit (like everything synch'd well, transitions between needle and mains is good, needles are right side up, etc etc), I'd bet that your float height needs tweaked. Adjust in 1mm (0.040ish) increments until you're happy with it.
I have the stock air box. I guess i was just kinda baffled cause it was working great the night after i put it together but the next morning it was bogging out. it idles fine and revs fine when its stopped...its just when there is a load on it. When i start out it goes ok but when i start to open it up...it bogs right out.
Fuel height (float height) or line routing would be my first guesses.
At 1/4 throttle, you're stil in the idle circuit. Something may still be clogged. Or, it might be fuel level like Andy says.
Is there any rust in the tank? I've never seen a filter that was capable of keeping rust out of the carbs. Keep working on the line routing.
WIll it pull throughthe bog, or does it just bog and not do anything else when accelerating?
DavidR.
Try running the bike without the fuel filter.
Gravity flow FJ's are very fussy about fuel flow, and fuel filters impede this flow.
Which is perhaps why your FJ did not come with a fuel filter.
Also, while you're down there..... check your 2 fuel bowl vent hoses.
Hope this helps....Pat
Because the FJ lacks an accellerator pump, getting that initial burst of fuel in response to a sudden throttle opening at fairly low revs is directly related to fuel height. With the stock airbox, it shouldn't be too far out on the needle, though.
Okay< so i took the inline fuel filter off and tried it and its still doing the same thing> I tried pulling the choke a little bit but it made no difference. I also checked to see if it would come out of the bog and the only way it would is if you pull in the clutch and let off the gas completely...then it will come back.
Im gonna LOSE MY MIND !!!
Today i took the carbs all apart and cleaned everything out. I checked the float levels and swapped the 37.5 pilot jets with the 40's. I put it all back together and its still doing the same thing. It just bogs right out. My battery needs to be charged all the time before i start it as i think thats worn out. ARRGGHHHH!!!!
What could be the problem??? Next i guess i could tear apart the petcock but something tells me that maybe something else is wrong. Could it be electrical? or something crazy like that? I set the float levels at 22mm. Geesh...im ready to give...its driving me mad !!!!!!
Please please please help me
Hola
I´ve reading carefully the complete post and thinking about it
Understandably I´ve seen that you´re lost and desperate. What would I do if it was my bike?
1.- stay resigned and start form the begining
2.- check the fuel petcock. Is it working ok?. FJ1100 & 1200 fade with the time and the membrane lost the elasticity, blocking the fuel flow.
3.- I´ve understand that you continues with the FJ 1100 carbs with FJ1200 dynojet needles and settings, don´t you?. Have you changed the needle jet?. 1100 & 1200 are different
4.- I understand that you continue with 4/1 race exhaust & OE airbox, is it ok?
5.- Something obvious; is it your airfilter clean?, is it a KN one?
6.- Now, if everything above is correct, I think you must run Dynojet recommended settings for a race can with OE airbox
7.- In my last post I suggested the problem was with the float valves. You didn´t say anything about. If all above is correct, I´m SURE that the problem is or microscopic gunk in the float valve seats or valve seat orings leaking fuel or incorrect valve clip positions or anything around
If you want I could send you a set of 2nd hand float valves & seats working perfectly until extracted last week, when changing the emulsion tubes I rebuilt my carbs with new elements
Silly question but could a dead battery cause this? It just seems to be electrical or something like that. I mean...the bike runs fine at idle and when i rev it up it works great too. It idles perfect. When i start out in gear it starts to go but then completely shuts down when i give it the gas....if i pull in the clutch and rev it up its fine. Its just when its under load. I am really goin crazy.
I checked the routing, cleaned the carbs a million times....swapped pilot jets....the only other thing i havent done is take apart the petcock and tried a new battery.
PLEASE help someone...im running out of things to try.
It could be a part of, but the wet plugs show a carb problem. And the problem resides at the low down circuit: floats, fuel level, pilot jets, float bowls valves or valve seat o rings
Well, there is no more... or the petcock. Have you tried with a suplementary deposit?. If the membrane have lost its elasticity itcould be is not responsive at low rpm
Alf, the plugs arent wet anymore. I guess there has been alot taken place since i have had the problem. I have cleaned it a million times really good and somehow i get the feeling that there is a central problem here. maybe electrical or something like that. Its definitely wierd. The carbs are immaculate and the fuel line routing is good. All the vacuum lines are good as well. i'm just reachin for straws by thinking it could be the petcock or battery but thought i would ask.
Ahhhhh. Ok. Mmmmmmmmm. Really it is bewitch!
Try with an auxiliary gas deposit. It could be the petcock
sorry, no more things come to my mind
Keep us informed
Good luck
see if one of your slides is stuck open or you may have a big ass vacuum leak.
I tried to read the whole post but didn't find this.
can you ride thru the flat spot ?
is the only thing it does is idle?
will the motor rev up past 6,000 rpm while not in motion?
are your mix screws at 2.5-3 turns out?
have you used the float bowel drains with a clear plastic tube pointed up to see what is really in the bowels when running?
run it at night and see if you are sparking along the wires under load?
start with that.
Checked the slides and they are going up and down fine. Thinking about maybe swapping back to stock needles but i just get the feeling that something big is missing now. No vacuum leak, i dont think, i checked for it. Gonna re-sync the carbs but if the carbs were off wouldnt the motor just run like crap but not just bog out? Tonight i am gonna fill a plastic tube and tape it to the bike and have it full of gas to see if its tank or petcock related and could it be a timing issue???....just an idea...
1. Cant ride through flat spot...bike just wants to stall
2. It will idle and rev quite responsively
3. yes it will rev up past 6,000 when not in motion
4. Mixture screws are 3 out
5. no i havent used clear plasctic tubes to see whats in the bowels when its running
6. No quite sure what you mean by checking at night
Quote from: Blurrman on September 30, 2011, 07:12:16 AM
Update:
After all this i took the bike for a run and it went really fast and worked really well. The next day i went to take the bike to work and at about 1/4 throttle...the bike would bog out and almost want to stall. I then thought that maybe there was a kink in the fuel line and sure enough...it was kinked a little. I then looked at the plugs and the plugs look white....I then thought that maybe that was because of the kinked line.
I managed to shortin the fuel line and make it so it wouldnt kink but no fix. It still bogs at 1/4 throttle. It idles really nice other than that. Could this be a jet problem or what? I took the needles back out and set the DynoJet needles on the 3rd position instead of the 2nd thinking it would give it more fuel but still no fix.
:good2:
SOLVED SOLVED SOLVED: ok...so i solved the problem. This ones a wierd one. In working on everything the connection for the kickstand switch was just a little unhooked (must have came loose during my test ride). I figured it was something electrical related as the bike would completely shutdown when coming out of 1st gear. It would just die. The wierd thing is that the kickstand switch doesnt even work....it doesnt seem to have any affect on the bike untill it bloody well wants to. This was really hard to troubleshoot cause the bike is 25 years old and one thing just leads to another. I knid of expected that...lol
Since the bike would idle fine and start off fine...it was really hard to see something like that being a problem. Oh well....PERSISTENCE pays off !!!! NEVER GIVE UP PEOPLE!
Special thanks to everyone along the way who helped me with my issues. Now the bike runs awesome and is the way it should be. Only missed like a month of riding but at lease the carbs are all set awesome , the valves are all done and i actually learned alot and know my bike inside and out now...lol
Great to hear things are sorted mate :good2:
And thanks for the heads up, adds another thing to my list to check out for.
We all learn through trial and error and with all the work you put in I think youl be prpared for anything she hands you :shout:
Congratulations!. :yahoo:
wow , that was a tricky one.
good job on figuring that one out. :good2: