While taking my 85 apart for other I thought it a good time to replace the fork seals.Any tips? First attempt at this procedure.Does the anti-dive assembly need to be maintained as part of the system or can it be bypassed or removed? I recall hearing they were not the greatest long term? The forks have to come right off the bike? and what tool removes the adjuster bolts from the top? Thankyou.
Please consult a repair manual before attempting your fork seal replacement.
The anti-dive does not work well and can be removed .
consider getting some later year forks from a 89 fj to 93 and you will be able to have a 17" front wheel and better brakes.
Thanks Mark. :good:
Kennyg,
In the files section http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0)
The write up includes more than replacing just your fork seals, however it'll give you some better pictures to go along with the directions for changing fork seals in a repair manual, and answer your other questions about tools and removing the forks from the bike. (You won't be cutting your Damper Adjuster Rod or installing cartridge emulators as in the write up)
As recommended to me, it's advisable to change the bushings ( fork tube bushings and fork slider bushings) while you are changing the fork seals. The bushings are very easy to change.
Quote from: Mark Olson on September 21, 2011, 12:24:12 PM
Please consult a repair manual before attempting your fork seal replacement.
The anti-dive does not work well and can be removed .
consider getting some later year forks from a 89 fj to 93 and you will be able to have a 17" front wheel and better brakes.
Completely removing the anti-dive assemblies requires block-off plates with drilled passages so the forks don't lock up.... IIRC, I have a '90, so don't have direct experience.
Quote from: markmartin on September 21, 2011, 08:26:07 PM
Kennyg,
In the files section http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0)
The write up includes more than replacing just your fork seals, however it'll give you some better pictures to go along with the directions for changing fork seals in a repair manual, and answer your other questions about tools and removing the forks from the bike. (You won't be cutting your Damper Adjuster Rod or installing cartridge emulators as in the write up)
As recommended to me, it's advisable to change the bushings ( fork tube bushings and fork slider bushings) while you are changing the fork seals. The bushings are very easy to change.
Eeeeehmmmm, resurrecting an ages old post, but why to create new one, I think this one will do just fine. :crazy:
After having a clunk sound when going over bumps for some time now and I wasn't able to find the source, I guess the fork bushings finally worn out enough so that I can detect the free play. And yes, I checked the steering stem, wheel bearings, etc. and I'm positive the fork bushings need replacing. Strange enough, the forks don't leak yet. Maybe I've noticed it just in time before the seals got damaged (yes, there is oil inside).
To cut the story short, I've read the instructions provided in the qouted post and Clymer and I have a couple of questions:
- Is it possible to unscrew the damper rod (the bottom screw that holds the legs together) without the special long hand-made tool, i.e. without holding the damper rod from inside? For example by leaving the spring inside to create pressure or by not removing the damper rod locating screw prior to unscrewing the bottom screw? Would that damage the locating screw?
- When assembling, again, is the locating screw strong enough to hold the damper rod while torquing the bottom screw?
- Is it possible to remove just the bottom part, without removing the stanchions? I guess it would be hard/impossible to install the seals?
- Will the front end be high enough for this job when on the center stand, tilted backwards?
I think this covers it for now. :nea:
I've read the manual again and interestingly it doesn't say you are supposed to unscrew damper rod locating screw prior to unscrewing the bottom allen bolt. But then on assembly part, the screw is out.
Help! :flag_of_truce:
My workshop manual says take out damper rod stopper (locating) screw just prior to unscrewing the bottom Allen bolt
Thanks!
There have been posts about Clymer being somewhat inaccurate when it comes to fork disassembly (and lacks some things obviously). You have just confirmed it to me.
Quote from: balky1 on July 02, 2017, 12:32:24 PM
A. When assembling, again, is the locating screw strong enough to hold the damper rod while torquing the bottom screw?
B. Is it possible to remove just the bottom part, without removing the stanchions?
A. Possibly, but not advisable. Better to fashion a tool to hold the damper rod from turning, so that its screw can be loosened or torqued properly. If the locating screw is bent, you won't be able to remove it again.
B. Yes, once the damper rod screw is out, the lowers/sliders pop apart from them. But why bother? Your 98% of the way completed with the disassembly at this point anyways.
Balky,
Sorry I missed this yesterday.
1) You can remove the allen screw from the bottom without the tool... sometimes. Other times it just spins round & round.
There have been plenty of photos of tools made using a bolt driven into a socket to hold the damper rod posted on the forum over the years. There has been stories told of using the end of a broom handle to wedge again the damper rod.
Or you can buy the correct tool for the job: 27mm Fork Tool (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=27mmForkHolder)
2) Remove the damper rod indexing screw. It is not there for disassembly or assembly purposes. The screw can get bent or crushed during that process. I use a punch that fits the threads snugly, as well as the damper rod tool to index the damper rod during installation. The punch is there just to index, the tool is what I use to hold the damper rod.
3) Yes, you can remove the lower slider without removing the fork. But, you will not be able to replace the fork seals.
4) Yes, you can push the back of the back down on the center stand to remove the wheel, then you have plenty of room to remove the forks.
Your source of the clunk one thing other than fork bushings (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkR%2FBKit). I have seen the damper rod installed onto the location screw which caused the damper rod to be off center and come loose.
I have attached a couple of photos of a damper rad that was tightened, and came loose on top of the locating screw.
All of your fork rebuilding parts are in stock and ready to ship once you get them torn down.
On more thing, don't forget about the fork seal driver 41mm Fork Seal Driver (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Tools%3Aforksealdriver). Not only does it allow you to install the seals and wipers in seconds, it will easily install the new upper bushing into the top of the forks too.
Randy - RPM
Thank you all for the advice. Very helpful and all my doubts and questions are now answered. :good2:
Randy, I'm pretty sure the bushings are culprits. I put the bike on center stand and lifted the front wheel. Stood in front of the bike and grabbed the forks at the level of anti-dives. Pulled and pushed and there was a sound and feeling of free play. Then I grabbed on the stanchions and did the same to rule out steering bearings and no free play observed.
When you take them apart, look at the bottom of the damper rod and see if there is damage like in the photos.
Also, if the screws do not come out easily, they are probably pinched in there. At that point loosen the damper rod and then they will unscrew.
Randy - RPM
I'd bet the bushings are indeed worn out. As a rule I never will replace fork seals without doing bushings also. It's just too much of a PITA to do seals and not bushings at the same time.
My 2¢
Quote from: simi_ed on July 03, 2017, 10:44:53 AM
I'd bet the bushings are indeed worn out. As a rule I never will replace fork seals without doing bushings also. It's just too much of a PITA to do seals and not bushings at the same time.
My 2¢
I know the feeling when you just assembled something and a week later you see you have to disassemble it again because of some other thing. I took the rear wheel down at least four times in the last 2-3 months. :negative:
Clymer says to remove the brake hose from the anti-dive. I need advice on this since I think I can just split it in half without anything leaking out and without removing the brake hose, correct?
Yes, the two halves have no hydraulic connection. This also is how you can remove the AD without using block-off plates.
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 07, 2017, 09:00:59 AM
Yes, the two halves have no hydraulic connection. This also is how you can remove the AD without using block-off plates.
Thanks for confirmation. I seemed to remember that's the way you do it, but better to ask than to have brake fluid or something all over.
I promise I'll not ask any questions that are already answered here -
Was in the bike shop recently having a chat with the proprietor while he disassembled forks on a Gold Wing and discussing the ''special tools". Back in the day when these tools were very expensive and the dollar was worth a lot more he and I came up with tools for forks, He showed me a draw full of them. iI still have the long square section 3/8 rod with an appropriate size nut welded to the end for my old Can-Am (a good hardwood square stick filled in) with the White Bros forks and length of split ABS for driving seals. Cool made to order tools would be nice to have though.
Thanks out to those that shared here and in other threads.
I did what everyone suggested - I googled the M18 bolt and the local Tractor Supply showed them on hand.
Added bonus: Chick Days
Found the bolt pretty quick, I think it was $6.00 with tax.
Used it with Vice Grips to loosen the caps.
Pounded a 5/8" 12 point 1/2" drive socket onto the end and extensions to reach up into the forks.
All good.
Good solution.You can also use the rear axle nut to losen the caps
Quote from: Old Rider on April 24, 2022, 12:47:21 PM
Good solution.You can also use the rear axle nut to losen the caps
That's what was running through my head as well :sarcastic:. Just posted about that somewhere else too.
i have posted a pic before
Great tips for future peeps!
It's a nightmare. I did my best. New seals new dust rubbers. Take all apart (left hand side only, RHS perfect, no leaks).
Finished. LHS immediately leaks again.
Oh my goodness what do I do?.
Oil pools under wheel.
Did you replace the bushes as well, or only the seals and dust rubbers?
Sounds like either you haven't got the deal in squarely, or......... if it's just oil pooling on the floor and not oil coming past the seal and running down the fork leg, are you sure you haven't just got a leak from the bottom bolt or the drain bolt at the bottom of the fork leg ?
Quote from: homerfj1100 on April 30, 2022, 07:13:06 PM
It's a nightmare. I did my best. New seals new dust rubbers. Take all apart (left hand side only, RHS perfect, no leaks).
Finished. LHS immediately leaks again.
Oh my goodness what do I do?.
Oil pools under wheel.
I feel your pain.
Inspect your upper legs. I found a tiny little sharp spot/scratch that I carefully removed with some 1000 wet/dry sandpaper.
So far, so good.