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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: vpfjames on August 03, 2011, 07:37:17 PM

Title: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: vpfjames on August 03, 2011, 07:37:17 PM
Ok , you guys helped me a few times with small issues, so im coming to you again.  Racing is my thing, however Im addicted to my FJ and refuse to change over to a newer sports bike, Although im waiting in line to get a hyabusa.  Heres the deal.  Typical raceday for me where every bike in the area wants to race the FJ because its old and has a middle age guy riding it.  This day however bested me, A 2011 R1 left me like im sitting still.

My bike 87 FJ1200, nothing custom other than keeping it well maintained, aftermarket brake rotors and K@N filter in the airbox.  Running on Avon Tires.

I dont like to lose, expecially when the outcome gets an 18 year old all fired up about how his bike is the greatest thing in the world and I should retire from riding. *even though my bike was bought by me, and not a grad gift from daddy*  Sorry, losing train of thought.

My question to you is this.  Can the FJ beat this bike.  If so, what needs to be done, and keep in mind that Im a driver, not a mechanic so I honestly have no clue how to do anything myself.  However I am going to throw about 2k to my FJ for upgrades.  I just need to know what route to take when spending that money to get the best results.

Look forward to your help guys.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: andyb on August 03, 2011, 08:16:38 PM
Honestly?  If you've got the usual bolt-ons and so does he, then you're going to need around 200rwhp if you're both decent riders.  Nitrous might get you there.


The  way to win a race on the FJ against a modern liter bike is to say first one to go 1500 miles wins.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: tqmx1 on August 03, 2011, 08:20:45 PM
Well, Loose about 20# then chop off about 50# off the FJ and then about a 50HP shot of nitrous. With that you MIGHT stand a chance :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You are talking at least a 10 generation differance. The Fj in good tune is about 120HP +/- where the R1 is about 180HP + stock out of the box.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: Flying Scotsman on August 03, 2011, 08:43:47 PM
Get a bigger rear sprocket get your head ported and get a big bore kit.If thats not enough then add a turbo charger.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: mst3kguy on August 03, 2011, 08:45:37 PM
what the hell are we talking about here---a straight line drag race?  or a run through the curves?  and are you talking out on the street?  if so, stop and go to a race track.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: ddlewis on August 03, 2011, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: vpfjames on August 03, 2011, 07:37:17 PM
...Look forward to your help guys.

You need one of these "liquid cooled FJ's" like we talked about the other day..

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4387.msg38700#msg38700 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4387.msg38700#msg38700)
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: ddlewis on August 03, 2011, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 03, 2011, 08:45:37 PM
what the hell are we talking about here---a straight line drag race?  or a run through the curves?  and are you talking out on the street?  if so, stop and go to a race track.

...says the most wanted double yellow line crossing hooligan in TN state park history.

:pardon:
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: WestOzXJR on August 03, 2011, 09:03:19 PM
1 bar of boost will do it easy... That's the cheapest way to make the 200hp required...

Then you can stick it up you your mate that it cost you less than 1 year of devaluation of his spaceship...
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: Travis398 on August 03, 2011, 09:06:10 PM
You probably should get one of them prototype FJ's
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: rktmanfj on August 03, 2011, 09:07:37 PM
Quote from: ddlewis on August 03, 2011, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 03, 2011, 08:45:37 PM
what the hell are we talking about here---a straight line drag race?  or a run through the curves?  and are you talking out on the street?  if so, stop and go to a race track.

...says the most wanted double yellow line crossing hooligan in TN state park history.

:pardon:


:rofl2:
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: Brook on August 03, 2011, 10:10:44 PM
...... The weight differents, may have a little to do with it, also!!
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: oldktmdude on August 04, 2011, 01:07:47 AM
    :dash1:  Don't bother wasting your time and money. All you'll end up doing is turning a great bike into a unreliable and difficult thing to ride.               
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: Harvy on August 04, 2011, 01:48:19 AM
Spend 6 or 7 grand on the motor, and another 3 or 4 grand on the suspension. OR stop  :dash2:

Harvy
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: teeeeeceeeee on August 04, 2011, 02:38:30 AM
Quote from: vpfjames on August 03, 2011, 07:37:17 PM

My question to you is this.  Can the FJ beat this bike.  If so, what needs to be done, and keep in mind that Im a driver, not a mechanic so I honestly have no clue how to do anything myself.  However I am going to throw about 2k to my FJ for upgrades.  I just need to know what route to take when spending that money to get the best results.

Look forward to your help guys.

The bottom line is NO!

It is so cost preventitive that you could purchase a new Hayabusa & throw a turbo on it for less than what it would cost to convert your FJ into a firebreather that could smoke the R1.

KEEP your FJ, ride it and appreciate it for what it is - spend your extra money on a R1 or a Hayabusa for the track.

I speak from experience having owned an ex-race FJ1100, R1 and '99 Hayabusa Turbo.

Kookaloo

TeeCee 
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: FJTillDeath on August 04, 2011, 03:48:23 AM
I agree with teeeceee and most of the other people on this forum. the FJ wont take down an R1 and to modify it to be able to would take all sense and beauty of the fj out of it. You may not want to change the FJ but there are other bikes out there that are cheaper to modify and will still do well on the track  against the super crotch rockets of today. As a pointer of interest i did a qaurter mile against my friend (i have the 1100) and he has a zx1400 2010 model. and the zx only finished finished half a second ahead of me. obviously the zx would kill the fx in a long distance straight but the FJ has got some really good specs in certain areas of racing, obviously not all though. Keep ur FJ reliable otherwise u wont enjoy riding it. you could even try get a '89 R1 and work on that to prove to this 18 year old that old will always be best. There was a video on this forum a while back of an FJ racing against another sportsbike of its time which demonstrates the FJs beauty on the track
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: DailyDriver on August 04, 2011, 10:08:46 AM
To quote a famous movie line - "A man's got to know his limitations." 
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: vpfjames on August 04, 2011, 10:16:00 AM
I appreciate everyones input, and it seems to be pretty unanimous.  Hearing it from the greatest FJ fans I know means I can trust that it cant be done.  You guys have saved me quite a bit of money as I was just talking to someone yesterday about getting that big bore kit, a different exhaust and jetting the carbs.  Guess I have to eat my pride and admit Ill need to get a full up crotch rocket to compete with the younger generation.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: Arnie on August 04, 2011, 10:22:09 AM
Just compete on slightly different terms.
Go for a 500 mile ride and see who can walk to the pub at the end of the day.
If the young whippersnipper can make it, go 700 miles the next day.

The litre rocketships are F A S T, but overkill on the streets.
If he rides with any sanity, you'll keep up with him and keep going long after he's stopped for a chiropractor.

Arnie
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: JMR on August 04, 2011, 02:29:23 PM
Get the Hayabusa....it is a great bike. I just rode mine to and from Mid Ohio in a day (700 miles each way) and I'm in my mid 50's. My FJ has very close to 150HP to rear wheel but cannot keep up with a new R1, GSXR1000, R1000s etc. It is quick and fast for an FJ but time marches on. :flag_of_truce:
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: flips on August 04, 2011, 02:52:00 PM
Quote from: vpfjames on August 03, 2011, 07:37:17 PM
Ok , you guys helped me a few times with small issues, so im coming to you again.  Racing is my thing, however Im addicted to my FJ and refuse to change over to a newer sports bike, Although im waiting in line to get a hyabusa.  Heres the deal.  Typical raceday for me where every bike in the area wants to race the FJ because its old and has a middle age guy riding it.  This day however bested me, A 2011 R1 left me like im sitting still.

My bike 87 FJ1200, nothing custom other than keeping it well maintained, aftermarket brake rotors and K@N filter in the airbox.  Running on Avon Tires.

I dont like to lose, expecially when the outcome gets an 18 year old all fired up about how his bike is the greatest thing in the world and I should retire from riding. *even though my bike was bought by me, and not a grad gift from daddy*  Sorry, losing train of thought.

My question to you is this.  Can the FJ beat this bike.  If so, what needs to be done, and keep in mind that Im a driver, not a mechanic so I honestly have no clue how to do anything myself.  However I am going to throw about 2k to my FJ for upgrades.  I just need to know what route to take when spending that money to get the best results.

Look forward to your help guys.

Some sugar in his petrol tank and some sand in his sump might work...probably the cheapest way... :diablo:
Ride safe and cheers  :drinks:
Jeff P
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: eddohawk on August 04, 2011, 03:12:18 PM
Darling, its not the size that counts but the intelligent bum behind it.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: Klavdy on August 04, 2011, 05:22:46 PM
Sugar in his petrol tank?
What would that do?
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: Dan Filetti on August 04, 2011, 10:28:31 PM
From what I'm to understand, it would gum the carbs/ FI something fierce...  May be an old wives tale, not sure, but it's long been said to disable a car [bike].


Dan
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: ddlewis on August 04, 2011, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: Dan Filetti on August 04, 2011, 10:28:31 PM
From what I'm to understand, it would gum the carbs/ FI something fierce...  May be an old wives tale, not sure, but it's long been said to disable a car [bike].

Dan

They tested this on mythbusters tv show a few years ago..  As I remember, the engine seemed to run better with sugar even after sitting over night with tank full of sugar-gas.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: rktmanfj on August 04, 2011, 11:44:08 PM
Quote from: ddlewis on August 04, 2011, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: Dan Filetti on August 04, 2011, 10:28:31 PM
From what I'm to understand, it would gum the carbs/ FI something fierce...  May be an old wives tale, not sure, but it's long been said to disable a car [bike].

Dan

They tested this on mythbusters tv show a few years ago..  As I remember, the engine seemed to run better with sugar even after sitting over night with tank full of sugar-gas.

I grew up being told that it would cause the engine to seize up.  But, having seen a car loaded up with a few pounds of sugar and driven away by its owner, and back to work the next day, I'd guess that it never works.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: FJTillDeath on August 05, 2011, 03:09:53 AM
or you could just cut his fuel line, stick a skrew in his tyre but that wouldnt be the manly thing to do.. :empathy: I agree with arnie take the youngster for a tour he will bail out very soon. But then again I have seen  so many R1s in accidents that I think this guy probably only has a few weeks to live maybe. they just arent practical for riding around town. :bad:
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: oldktmdude on August 05, 2011, 04:31:00 AM
  The old saying "horses for courses" seems to fit this situation fairly well.   Pete.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: Ganboy70 on August 05, 2011, 07:03:40 AM
Dude, try to look for comparable generation Superbikes and stick to that, keep your pride intact. 

Cheers,
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: racerman_27410 on August 05, 2011, 07:47:37 AM
the new sport bikes dont launch from a dead stop as good as the heavy FJ...... just learn how to properly launch your FJ and then challenge him to a 0-60mph race   :good2:


KOokaloo!
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: andyb on August 05, 2011, 07:55:04 AM
Depends on who's on them.  Being 100lbs lighter is a definite plus.  Some of the literbikes went a little far in the short wheelbase contest and have started working longer again.  Good riders on them will surprise you!  

But that's assuming they've disabled the slipper, which usually screws hard launches all up. 

That said, with a typical rider (a non-pro, not hugely experienced drag racer), the FJ has a vastly easier sweet spot to hit for a launch compared most, making it hugely easier to be pretty good pretty consistently.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: FJTillDeath on August 05, 2011, 08:07:24 AM
most of that can be sorted out when working on the throttle bodies. thats why my friends zx14 beats my fj in short distance runs(he put a lot of money into working on his throttle bodies). although if he were my size (just 70kg and 120kg) he could probably beat me by a greater margin. that being said I havent heard anyone comment on the 89 R1s and earlier? i want to get myself one providing i can find them...
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: rktmanfj on August 05, 2011, 08:08:40 AM
Quote from: FJt!llD3@th on August 05, 2011, 03:09:53 AM
<snip> But then again I have seen  so many R1s in accidents that I think this guy probably only has a few weeks to live maybe. <snip>

R1s don't seem to do well at FJ rallies... I can think of 4 crashes right of the top of my head.     :yes:
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: WestOzXJR on August 05, 2011, 08:16:05 AM
Quote from: FJt!llD3@th on August 05, 2011, 08:07:24 AM
I havent heard anyone comment on the 89 R1s and earlier?

89? Do you mean 99?

In '89 I bought a brand new FZR1000... First of the exup's.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: FJTillDeath on August 05, 2011, 08:40:51 AM
i didnt know the FZRs and the R1s were different because i have seen a yzf r1 and a fzr R1, if I am wrong i do apologise but yes i do mean the 89 FZR
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: FJTillDeath on August 05, 2011, 08:54:10 AM
This could help if you are looking for a 1980s superbike that can stand up to the late model R1s

http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2007/09/face-off-1989-yamaha-fzr750rr-ow01-vs.html (http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2007/09/face-off-1989-yamaha-fzr750rr-ow01-vs.html)

The yamaha fzr750rr OWO1 one of my new favourites, although the article is about how superbikes have progressed I still think the early model bikes are more trustworthy and fun to ride

and from my research the yzf r1 was around in 1989 and before then, but like I said i dont really know the differences between the FZR and the YZF
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: WestOzXJR on August 05, 2011, 09:08:13 AM
Quote from: FJt!llD3@th on August 05, 2011, 08:40:51 AM
i didnt know the FZRs and the R1s were different because i have seen a yzf r1 and a fzr R1, if I am wrong i do apologise but yes i do mean the 89 FZR

I don't know what they brought out in Nth America but... The first exup FZR into Oz was silver/grey in 89 -very dull looking but cleaned up 7 of the top 10 at Isle Of Man that year so I just had to have one and I too wouldn't mind another for my collection now... Awesome bike for the era... Absolutely shat on GSXR1100's but was more expensive to buy too by about 2k.

Funny, the other night I found a pic of mine from back then and I noticed the older type pre blue spot four pot Sumitomos on the front which made me smile.

In 90 they came out red, white, blue.. Beyond that I lost touch with 'em as I got out of motorcycling for 18 odd years.

I've seen some very very ugly early 90's FZR's in breakers yards and on e-bay that were still designated FZR with no reference to "R!"...

According to Wiki, if that info is correct, the frist R1 was '98.

No apology necessary, I wan't being picky... I was just curious as to which actual bike you lusted after.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: flips on August 05, 2011, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: WestOzXJR on August 05, 2011, 09:08:13 AM
Quote from: FJt!llD3@th on August 05, 2011, 08:40:51 AM
i didnt know the FZRs and the R1s were different because i have seen a yzf r1 and a fzr R1, if I am wrong i do apologise but yes i do mean the 89 FZR
FYI
The fzr1000 arrived out of the yamaha factory in 87-88  and was continued up until 94-95 with various uprades along the way....followed by the yzf1000r thunderace in 96 produced up until 03.The first yzf1000r1 or R1 appeared in 89.The fzr1000 was killed by the release of the first cbr900rr fireblade in 94.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: nvmike24 on August 08, 2011, 12:14:28 AM
Quote from: Dan Filetti on August 04, 2011, 10:28:31 PM
From what I'm to understand, it would gum the carbs/ FI something fierce...  May be an old wives tale, not sure, but it's long been said to disable a car [bike].


Dan
my wife's X put sugar in my truck for payback. The effect was the mechanical fuel pump seized. The engine was running fine till fuel supply dried up. I imagine once the float bowl was full of only sugar combustion would cease. To get sugar out a the tank you need to wash the tank with water to dissolve the sugar.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: FJTillDeath on August 08, 2011, 06:01:05 AM
No apology necessary, I wan't being picky... I was just curious as to which actual bike you lusted after.
[/quote]

Well definitely the FZR :good2:

I ave seen some late model FZs (without the "r" - i think) but they are all called Fz fazers. there may be more but they arent as nice looking as the 80s model. there may be more, I havent researched the topic, its just the genral ones I have seen around.

I know the early FZRs were considered costly but does anyone know if production came to south africa? I have never seen one around but then again Id never seen or even heard of an FJ until i bought it
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: andyb on August 08, 2011, 08:23:00 AM
Quote from: FJt!llD3@th on August 05, 2011, 08:07:24 AM
most of that can be sorted out when working on the throttle bodies. thats why my friends zx14 beats my fj in short distance runs(he put a lot of money into working on his throttle bodies).

Being difficult to launch because of a peaky powerband refers to the literbikes.

The ZX14 beats you because he should easily have a 50hp advantage.  Rocket surgery it ain't.


Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: mst3kguy on August 08, 2011, 10:01:44 PM
Quote from: ddlewis on August 03, 2011, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 03, 2011, 08:45:37 PM
what the hell are we talking about here---a straight line drag race?  or a run through the curves?  and are you talking out on the street?  if so, stop and go to a race track.

...says the most wanted double yellow line crossing hooligan in TN state park history.

:pardon:

DANNY LEWIS FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FUCK.
Title: Re: Smoked by a 2011 R1... Help!
Post by: ddlewis on August 09, 2011, 07:21:31 AM
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 08, 2011, 10:01:44 PM
Quote from: ddlewis on August 03, 2011, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: mst3kguy on August 03, 2011, 08:45:37 PM
what the hell are we talking about here---a straight line drag race?  or a run through the curves?  and are you talking out on the street?  if so, stop and go to a race track.

...says the most wanted double yellow line crossing hooligan in TN state park history.

:pardon:

DANNY LEWIS FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FUCK.

and there it is!  Whew.. I was starting to worry.