Hi folks, i'm new on this site, and in case you are wondering, I've posted an introduction in the appropriate place, as I don't want to upset anyone. I bought my bike, a 1992 FJ 1200 with 16000 genuine miles on the clock. Not in great condition, but a lot of TLC later and she's looking superb. I rode her home for 70 miles or so and she rode faultlessly. Today I decided to service her, and firstly changed the plugs and air filter when cold and decided to start her up, ready for the oil change. When I started her up, OMG, what a noise !!! She sounded horrendous ! The bike didn't sound like this when I took her home. The noise appears to be coming from the top end. It's a continuous knocking sound, like the valves are way out, or something rattling around in there. The engine knocks at idle, tick over, which is set at 1100 rpm. When I rev her up, the noise becomes louder. I put a screwdriver on to the motor and it does seem to be coming from around the rocker cover area. I double checked the plug installation, and the plug lead firing order which are correct. The air filter is sitting tight aswell. I just don't get it ! Any help would greatly be appreciated, many thanks.
is there any oil in the engine ?
KOokaloo!
Frank
Quote from: racerman_27410 on July 07, 2011, 06:48:58 PM
is there any oil in the engine ?
Yes mate. First thing I checked when I bought the bike. Cheers
KOokaloo!
Frank
If the bike was running fine (quietly) when you rode it the 70 miles home. I'd say to take a look at the ignition wires since you just replaced the spark plugs of make sure you replaced them with the correct spark plugs set to the correct gap. If the spark plug wires are in the wrong place it might not run to well. Just a thought...
Eric M
+1 to the wrong wires on the wrong plugs. You also put in NGK DPR8EA9 plugs or equivalent right?
Yes, the correct spark plugs were put back into the bike, and in the correct firing order. Can I just confirm with you all, that the firing order is 1234 from left to right as you sit on the bike. The plug wires are numbered in this order, and the Carb inlet rubbers have this firing order written on them aswell. I think i'll put the old plugs back into the bike and fire it up to see what happens. Thanks for the replies so far.
i thought it was 1243? checking now...
Put the old plugs back in and still the same.
my bad...i get what you mean? the plug leads are numbered 1 2 3 4 but that isnt the firing order... thats just to link plug to correct wire ( forgive me if im telling you something you already know) as you sit on the bike L to R 1 2 3 4 yes. that would mean 1 and 4 come from the left hand (clutch side ) coil and 2 and 3 of the r h coil. its making me wonder that if its all wired up like this then maybe a defective plug lead? i had a crack in one of my spark leads and only found it by touching the lead ( by accident) while it was running... i dont endorse this it bloody hurt!!! i think you can check for contiuity with a multi meter... but the facts are alluding me now...( dropped a one inch drive rattle gun on my face while lying under a machine removing bolts... and yes that bloody hurt too!!!) hopefully someone will come in with more help..... i do know that however if your plugs arent firing right it sounds like theres a gremlin with ahammer in your engine....
Quote from: NJona86FJ on July 08, 2011, 04:29:34 AM
my bad...i get what you mean? the plug leads are numbered 1 2 3 4 but that isnt the firing order... thats just to link plug to correct wire ( forgive me if im telling you something you already know) as you sit on the bike L to R 1 2 3 4 yes. that would mean 1 and 4 come from the left hand (clutch side ) coil and 2 and 3 of the r h coil. its making me wonder that if its all wired up like this then maybe a defective plug lead? i had a crack in one of my spark leads and only found it by touching the lead ( by accident) while it was running... i dont endorse this it bloody hurt!!! i think you can check for contiuity with a multi meter... but the facts are alluding me now...( dropped a one inch drive rattle gun on my face while lying under a machine removing bolts... and yes that bloody hurt too!!!) hopefully someone will come in with more help..... i do know that however if your plugs arent firing right it sounds like theres a gremlin with ahammer in your engine....
Thanks mate, checked the firing order and that's all set up correctly. I took number 3 plug lead off the plug, and it's the only one out of the four that's giving me a shock. Could it be number 3 wire is bad ? The problem I have is that I believe the wires are integrated into the coils on these bikes and can't be changed individually, without purchasing a new coil. Am I right in saying this, or talking crap ? Cheers
Might read this post http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2409.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2409.0) . It gives some info on changing a plug wire. Note that is is solid core wire, resistor is in the plug cap. Looks like you can change it out. I have no real experience changing a wire out, just relaying what I read. Good luck, let me/us know your out come. :)
Thanks again for the replies, here's the latest update. Tested all wires and spark plugs, gaps etc and all is fine there. The sound is definitely coming from the top end of the bike and continues to knock with the rev's of the machine. The bike will tick over great, you can rev it and no loss of power, and no smoke coming out of the exhaust. It runs strong and would be perfect if it weren't for the knocking noise. I removed the Rocker cover and there's plenty of oil being pumped to the top of the engine. I looked for any obvious signs, but could not find anything. The Shims were all sitting nicely and all the fasteners at the top end were solid with nothing loose at all, and no obvious signs of damage at all. I'm now wondering whether the Cam chain tensioner is at fault here ? Anyone have any thoughts on that ? Forgot to mention, the Camchain at the top of the engine was nice and tight, and not loose at all.
Well, here's my 2¢: You've got the plug wires crossed, or you losta small part into a cylinder when the plugs were out. I hpoe it's only the wires.
Best of luck! :empathy:
Ed
Quote from: simi_ed on July 08, 2011, 02:37:22 PM
Well, here's my 2¢: You've got the plug wires crossed, or you losta small part into a cylinder when the plugs were out. I hpoe it's only the wires.
Best of luck! :empathy:
Ed
Thanks for the reply. The plug wires are all correct, definitely. I always take one plug out at a time and replace in that order. I don't recall anything falling into a cylinder as I always work in a clean environment, cleaning up as I go along. Thanks anyway mate.
Hi there.
I know this is probably not it ,but my 2c.A while ago rejetted the carbs,put them back in,started her up...awful knocking noise......got louder when reved...looked...listened...pulled out hair....swore.....cursed...muttered...asked advice...removed carbs....checked.....put backin...noise continued worse...all of the above repeated afew times...turned out to be a rusted out pin hole on the engine side of no 2 header pipe.Hope this helps.
cheers Jeff.P
if your getting a shock then try replacing it.... swap the plug lead round to another cylinder ( remove it from the coil pack... they should have a shroud? that will unscrew then the plug wire should just pull out.... so .. say swap number three for number two ? hope this is making sense and see if the problem changes cylinders..... if you re getting any shock its faulty... you should be able to hang onto spark plug leads and have no drama.... when replacing try to get a steel core lead... i once went all fancy and bought a carbon splitfire lead... just added more headaches... stuttering clanking and no power over three grand.... went back to my 25 year old plug leads ( after some checking) and had no problems...
Just a thought. Check your header pipes. If one of them are loose, it can sound like she's gonna blow. Makes a gawd awful scary sound.
HTH's
Cheers...Jake
Thanks for the replies guys, I very much appreciate you taking the time in trying to help me. I've been on a Military re-union away from home and just came back. I'll go outside and check those exhausts and see what I find. I'll keep you all posted. Cheers
Yilt
Just been outside and started the bike up, knock knock who's there ? I've noticed water pooling on the floor, and know it aint coolant because it aint water cooled. Condensation from inside the pipes and leaking out from a poorly sealed exhaust system, which is genuine. I let the bike run for approx' 10 minutes and couldn't feel any air coming out of the bike, or find any leaks, pinholes etc. Whilst I was checking the exhaust, I stood up and thought, hey the noise has gone. When the engine warmed up, the loud ticking noise disappeared. I'd love to know what the hell is going on with this bike ? Thanks again folks.
Yilt
Quote from: Yilt on July 10, 2011, 09:31:27 AM
Just been outside and started the bike up, knock knock who's there ? I've noticed water pooling on the floor, and know it aint coolant because it aint water cooled. Condensation from inside the pipes and leaking out from a poorly sealed exhaust system, which is genuine. I let the bike run for approx' 10 minutes and couldn't feel any air coming out of the bike, or find any leaks, pinholes etc. Whilst I was checking the exhaust, I stood up and thought, hey the noise has gone. When the engine warmed up, the loud ticking noise disappeared. I'd love to know what the hell is going on with this bike ? Thanks again folks.
Yilt
Those symptons exactly can come from a loose exhaust pipe where it bolts onto the head. I can't begin to tell you how relieved I was to find that on a just built motor! No idea on the water.
Noel
Combustion creates water as a byproduct, and a loose headpipe can heat up and seal itself, until the next cold start. I started an air cooled bike recently that sat for a decade in a dry spot (no wash, no rain, no dew), and it was dripping boiling water off the front of the head from an inaudible exhaust leak. Let's keep fingers crossed for you that it's a simple thing!
If you can't find an exhaust leak, fold a rag over a few times and cover the outlet with it between your hand and the outlet. You should be able to hear/find a leak then....
Quick update for you all. I started the bike up today and warmed it up. The bike was rattling like hell. I thought to myself, let's rev the bike up a little, to about 4500 revs. Did this a couple of times and the noise went. I flushed the oil out and checked for bits of metal and saw metal in the oil that resembled thread off a bolt. Circular lumps of metal in there. I flushed it again, and changed the oil until it ran clean. Cleaned oil filter etc and put it all back together. Started her up, quiet as a church mouse, tivking overnice, no rattles at all. Took her out for a 100 mile blast, all roads andspeeds, performed faultlessly. Still quiet and sounding grand. I'm baffled, what the hell is going on ? Cheers for the people who tried to help me by posting.
Quote from: Yilt on July 12, 2011, 01:12:13 PM
.....I'm baffled, what the hell is going on ?
One of the many many engineering marvels of our FJ engines is the self machining feature.....
Quote from: Yilt on July 12, 2011, 01:12:13 PM
Quick update for you all. I started the bike up today and warmed it up. The bike was rattling like hell. I thought to myself, let's rev the bike up a little, to about 4500 revs. Did this a couple of times and the noise went. I flushed the oil out and checked for bits of metal and saw metal in the oil that resembled thread off a bolt. Circular lumps of metal in there. I flushed it again, and changed the oil until it ran clean. Cleaned oil filter etc and put it all back together. Started her up, quiet as a church mouse, tivking overnice, no rattles at all. Took her out for a 100 mile blast, all roads andspeeds, performed faultlessly. Still quiet and sounding grand. I'm baffled, what the hell is going on ? Cheers for the people who tried to help me by posting.
Yilt,
Worrying news. Bits loose inside the engine is very bad. First off I wouldn't run the engine until I found out where bits in the oil came from. That bolt must have been holding something. The engine could go bang in a big way. FJ engines are bullet proof and don't do this (especially a low mileage motor) Since you have newly bought the bike it's possible that the previous owner stripped the thread on a bolt. I would contact him and ask if he had done any recent engine work. For a start I'd remove the cam cover and look for anything wrong. A bolt thread is too small to cause noise. I think there may still be something loose in there. Dropping the sump to check would make sense.
Stuart
well wasnt i miles out...lol good to see youve started find the problem. :good2:
Thanks Stuart for that mate. I've already checked inside the rocker cover, and all is well in there. The sump is coming off asap. I'll let you know what I find. Cheers
OK, took the sump off and it's clean as a whistle. No metal particles of any kind in there at all. Cheers
Quote from: Yilt on July 13, 2011, 02:56:34 PM
OK, took the sump off and it's clean as a whistle. No metal particles of any kind in there at all. Cheers
Was the metal you found aluminium/alloy?.....could be stripped thread from over tightened sump plug....this happened to me.If so you will need to change the sump.It pays to buy a new sump plug washer when doing an oil change!!!
Cheers
Jeff P.
Just checked the sump, as i'm waiting for the gasket to arrive. I can confirm that the bits of metal that I found that resemble a thread, are indeed from the sump, and not the sump bolt that was in there. So the sump thread had been shred and fell off into the oil. Would that metal travelling around have caused the noise ? Cheers
Quote from: Yilt on July 15, 2011, 08:17:05 AM
Just checked the sump, as i'm waiting for the gasket to arrive. I can confirm that the bits of metal that I found that resemble a thread, are indeed from the sump, and not the sump bolt that was in there. So the sump thread had been shred and fell off into the oil. Would that metal travelling around have caused the noise ? Cheers
Hi Yilt.
I suspect that the stripped thread peeled off the sump plug when you removed it to check the oil.While its never good to have any kind of metal shavings in the sump I would think it unlikely that
this was the cause of the noise,(disclaimer-Of couse not having heard the noise myself!!.You did say it was from the top end??)most likely it would just get stuck in the strainer on the oil pump pickup.Intermittant noises can be hard to pick :dash2:.If your pretty confidant that the headers arent leaking,I would suggest It may be worth the effort to remove the spark plugs and the rocker cover and turn the engine over and have a real good look/listen at the operation of the cams/valves/timing chain.Have a look at the colour of the spark plugs as you pull them out.Any noticable discolouration may steer you in the right direction (sticking valve??....)I would also do a compression test.Hopefully this may narrow your investigation....
Hope this helps... :empathy2:
Cheers
Jeff P.
remove the spark plugs and the rocker cover
lol @ myself.......rocker cover!!.....should be cam cover....doh! :crazy:
Final update as follows. The Cam cover was removed early in my investigation and all was fine there. The spark plugs are running at a nice tanned colour. I put the sump back together, ( New Gasket etc ). Exhaust was put back on and sealed tight. Started her up and was running sweet, very quiet. Took her for a ride, about 100miles or so, and she pulled in every gear like a Freight train. I'm going to leave it at that now, and hope that she'll stay as is. Thanks very much to you all for your support. ( KInd people who replied and tried to assist me, much appreciated ) I'm one very happy FJ owner, and absolutely love this bike. Cheers Yilt
Quote from: ribbert on July 10, 2011, 09:51:54 AM
Quote from: Yilt on July 10, 2011, 09:31:27 AM
Just been outside and started the bike up, knock knock who's there ? I've noticed water pooling on the floor, and know it aint coolant because it aint water cooled. Condensation from inside the pipes and leaking out from a poorly sealed exhaust system, which is genuine. I let the bike run for approx' 10 minutes and couldn't feel any air coming out of the bike, or find any leaks, pinholes etc. Whilst I was checking the exhaust, I stood up and thought, hey the noise has gone. When the engine warmed up, the loud ticking noise disappeared. I'd love to know what the hell is going on with this bike ? Thanks again folks.
Yilt
Those symptons exactly can come from a loose exhaust pipe where it bolts onto the head. I can't begin to tell you how relieved I was to find that on a just built motor! No idea on the water.
Noel
Thank You ribbert on the reply on this. My newly acquired bike just started doing this knocking sound like a bad wrist pin until I read this post. I stuck a stick between the pipes while running and pried them over one at a time until #3 pipe stopped knocking. All is good now!!! Thanks