Well my engine cranks fine, and i have gas for sure, carbs are filled with gas and all. And getting spark.....Sorta. I checked to see if getting spark and my right coil isnt. Its plugged in and connected but no spark. No i noticed this. the left coil has 2 wires going into its plug and 2 wires coming out of the plug on the wiring harness. No problem there. But the right coil is a little different. There are to wires coming from the right coil that goes into its plug. BUT the plug for that coil coming from the wiring harness has 3 wires....Im not fulling understanding why this is. the book shows that the right coil has 1 gray and a red/white wire, but it has 2 gray wires....and to make it more interesting one of the gray wires is cut, i dont understand why it has 2 gray ones and the book shows one....
anyone know why this is?
Possibly a coil from a different bike?
honestly have no idea... but its not the coil with the extra wire, its the wiring harness. The plug that plugs into the right coil from the wiring harness has the extra wire....
Doesn't the tach feed from one of the coils?
Randy T
Indy
not that im aware of...... but the book doesn't show a 3rd wire coming from that plug, let me see if i can get a pic up here....
Sorry for the not so great pics but once again im using my camera on my phone(broken camera) but you should be able to see the 3 wires coming out of the plug from the wiring harness that plugs into the right coil. Im looking at the book right now, and this is an 87 wiring harness, it shows coil for plugs 2 and 3 have a gray and red/white wire and yea it looks like that gray wire does connect into the tachometer. COil which controls 1 and 4 plugs had orange and red/white wire. Both going to ignitor unit. My problem is there is an extra gray wire coming from the plug on the wiring harness for the righ coil and i cant figure out what it is. Nad it goes through the whole harness....
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h462/irishluck09/wire2.jpg)
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h462/irishluck09/wire1.jpg)
also so i know this but if only one coil has spark, will that in fact cause it to not start?
It would still run on 2 cylinders.Test the coil if it is bad replace it.
but whats that 3rd wire for... thats my main concern......
Irishluck.........I wonder if the harness had a bad wire and the extra wire was a replacement circuit? Where does that extra grey wire go to in the harness? - can you find the other end of it....... if its a replacement for the original, it should be visible at the Ignitor box.
It may also have been a feed to an aftermarket tacho.
Harvy
Quote from: rktmanfj on June 19, 2011, 10:19:37 PM
Doesn't the tach feed from one of the coils?
Randy T
Indy
if only more people would listen to Randy.
One goes to the Ignitor unit and the other to the tach.
Is the tach working, that would prove randy,s quote ,
Or he could listen to Randy (and me)
the gray wire leaves the ignitor box goes to the coil the factory doubles the wires together in the plug. Then the other one goes to the tach.
so no matter which gray wire is cut the tach shouldn't work.
If I'm wrong I'll buy Irishluck a coffee unless he wants to wait till he's 21, then I'll buy him a beer :drinks:
Quote from: fj11.5 on June 20, 2011, 05:33:34 PM
Is the tach working, that would prove randy,s quote ,
well i have no idea if the tach works, bike dont turn on ha.
well i did mention travis that he was right, that the gray wire goes to the tach.
Harvy that could be right, im actually getting ready to check that.
but travis, you said one would go to the tach and one to the ignitor box but why doesnt the wiring diagram show 3 wires? thats what im lost about. I mean the book shows from 86 to 91, uk and us models, abs or no abs. With only 2 wires. Unless like harv said its a replacement wire.....
well all i know is that there is only one wire going to the ignitor that is gray
update: well it looks like the cut wire is the wire that goes to the ignitor which would explain why its not getting spark to that coil.
Idk this just weird that it has 3 different wires.
Quote from: irishluck on June 20, 2011, 10:34:19 PM
well all i know is that there is only one wire going to the ignitor that is gray
Idk this just weird that it has 3 different wires.
Where are these 3 wires you keep talking about?
in this pic, I see 2 gray wires. One of them is cut, are you counting that twice? Reconnect it and it will be 2 again.
if there is a 3rd gray wire I don't see it, take another pic
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h462/irishluck09/wire2.jpg)
(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h462/irishluck09/wire22.jpg)
hopefully this will explain it better.
But anyways, i did go ahead and reattach those wires, i didn't want to do it just yet because i didn't understand why there where 3 wires but i do have spark now.
Now its cranks fine, its all getting spark, but still wont start, I know the carbs are filling up with gas BUT i pulled the plugs and there all dry as can be and don't smell of gas.
I'm assuming this would be my carbs but they were rebuilt.... and they are filling with fuel. i loosened that screw at the bottom of the carb and gas is coming out....
could some type of a vacuum line cause this or something?
How many turns out on the mixture screws? Sounds like they may be closed.....
Quote from: RichBaker on June 21, 2011, 10:21:06 PM
How many turns out on the mixture screws? Sounds like they may be closed.....
THE MIXTURE SCREW.... CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THAT PLEASE
THE SCREW I WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS THE ONE AT BOTTOM OF CARB TO SEE IF THERE IS GAS IN IT.... JUST MAKING SURE YA KNOW THAT
Quote from: irishluck on June 21, 2011, 10:31:18 PM
THE MIXTURE SCREW.... CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THAT PLEASE
I know you said please and all, but I just hurt myself laughing. Idle mixture screws, see Andyb's unbelievably comprehensive photo essay he just posted!http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4281.msg37745#msg37745 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4281.msg37745#msg37745) One for each carb on top in front, might be under a sealed plug if nobody has ever adjusted them or removed for CLEANING. Be gentle with them, they are fragile and don't suffer fools gladly if overtightened. Tighten them until they seat (easy now) and back out 2-1/2 turns. Other options for no fuel, if the throttle is open too much the choke circuit won't pull enough fuel. Don't touch the throttle when cranking, and make sure the throttle blades are returning to closed, and the idle screw isn't cranked way up, that's underneath in the center with a knob on it, one for all 4 carbs.
P.S.- good job on the spark fix, but your wiring picture still frightens me in a primal way.
Quote
I know you said please and all, but I just hurt myself laughing. Idle mixture screws, see Andyb's unbelievably comprehensive photo essay he just posted!http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4281.msg37745#msg37745 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4281.msg37745#msg37745) One for each carb on top in front, might be under a sealed plug if nobody has ever adjusted them or removed for CLEANING. Be gentle with them, they are fragile and don't suffer fools gladly if overtightened. Tighten them until they seat (easy now) and back out 2-1/2 turns. Other options for no fuel, if the throttle is open too much the choke circuit won't pull enough fuel. Don't touch the throttle when cranking, and make sure the throttle blades are returning to closed, and the idle screw isn't cranked way up, that's underneath in the center with a knob on it, one for all 4 carbs.
P.S.- good job on the spark fix, but your wiring picture still frightens me in a primal way.
so even though they have never been removed or anything, this could cause the problem? basically adding way to much air and no gas im assuming..... Now when i did clean the carbs i did member i had taken the needles out of the diaphram and slide. Now i noticed these plates down in the diaphram that were screwed down onto it. Not tighten down all the way though. If you know what im talking about, do you know if this would have anything to do with no gas going through?
(popcorn) (popcorn) (popcorn)
think i know why its not firing. needle valve sets, screens on the seats are like completly rusted and crushed and s***
That could be a problem...... Be sure and use the carb pictures Andy posted, they should answer most of your questions.
Quoted from prev. post: "Now i noticed these plates down in the diaphram that were screwed down onto it. Not tighten down all the way though." Those are NOT the mixture screws...... look at Andy's pics to see what I'm referring to.
Quote from: RichBaker on June 22, 2011, 07:24:25 PM
That could be a problem...... Be sure and use the carb pictures Andy posted, they should answer most of your questions.
Quoted from prev. post: "Now i noticed these plates down in the diaphram that were screwed down onto it. Not tighten down all the way though." Those are NOT the mixture screws...... look at Andy's pics to see what I'm referring to.
oh no i know those arent the mixture screws, what i was trying to get at was when i worked on the carbs before i member one of them not tighten down all the way, like it was actually up a little ways. What i was wondering is are they suppose to be all the way down?
Quote from: irishluck on June 22, 2011, 09:20:19 PM
oh no i know those arent the mixture screws, what i was trying to get at was when i worked on the carbs before i member one of them not tighten down all the way, like it was actually up a little ways. What i was wondering is are they suppose to be all the way down?
Uh, NO. Most of the nuts and bolts on your motorcycle are supposed to be loose. That way the threads aren't stressed too much so they don't strip. If the others are tight, try loosening them up.
Remember, there are no stupid questions
DavidR.
PS. When in doubt, clean the carbs.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on June 23, 2011, 06:22:59 PM
Quote from: irishluck on June 22, 2011, 09:20:19 PM
oh no i know those arent the mixture screws, what i was trying to get at was when i worked on the carbs before i member one of them not tighten down all the way, like it was actually up a little ways. What i was wondering is are they suppose to be all the way down?
Uh, NO. Most of the nuts and bolts on your motorcycle are supposed to be loose. That way the threads aren't stressed too much so they don't strip. If the others are tight, try loosening them up.
Remember, there are no stupid questions
DavidR.
PS. When in doubt, clean the carbs.
(popcorn)
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on June 23, 2011, 06:22:59 PM
Most of the nuts and bolts on your motorcycle are supposed to be loose. That way the threads aren't stressed too much so they don't strip. If the others are tight, try loosening them up.
PS. When in doubt, clean the carbs.
Hmm. At this stage of my life, I'm finding it difficult to accept this philosophy, it is counter to how I've mostly carried on. Do you guarantee that bolts won't strip or break if I use this method? Has it worked for you? I suppose there's always something new to learn. And as a counterpoint to your PS, I've never cleaned my carbs and they work perfectly. I think all this carb cleaning is just mass hysteria. Any problem I've tricked myself into believing usually disappears when I buy new tires.
Carb cleaning only works if you're using proper oil.