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General Category => Yamaha FJ1100 / FJ1200 Running Problems => Topic started by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 11:11:42 AM

Title: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 11:11:42 AM
ok this is what i've don't so far... ('87 fj1200tc)
-emptied tank and filled with fresh
-new spark plugs
-checked for spark on each plug, have spark
-took apart carbs, cleaned and reassembled with ss screws and o ring kit from rpm.
-removed all cali stuff and plugged vacuum ports.
-charged battery
-checked fuel flow from petcock, have fuel flow
-put everything back on the bike
-tried to start, engine cranks, but no start!
-i think it flooded after 5 or 6 tries
-after expletives, called it a night before chucking the whole thing in lake erie!   :wacko3:

any ideas?
i'm getting frustrated..any help would be appreciated!!
thanks,
larry
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: FJ111200 on May 23, 2011, 11:20:48 AM
When you took the carbs apart did you alter the position of the syncronising screws and the pilot screws?
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 11:31:48 AM
didn't change the sync screw setting.  pilot screws are 3 turns out
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 11:44:06 AM
this might be a stupid question...but are the throttle plates supposed to closed all the way when in the idle positon?
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: FJ111200 on May 23, 2011, 12:27:07 PM
If you mean the butterfly valves, no there should be a gap. I use the tip of a small feeler gauge just so it will slide throgh between the carb body and the butterfly. It's all part of the pre-sync set up, before i use the vacuum gauges in the final set up. The pre - sync will usually be enough to get the engine fired up.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 12:35:31 PM
hmmm....that might be one of my problems, i think they're all the way shut.
i'll have to take a look when i get home.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: Mark Olson on May 23, 2011, 01:42:19 PM
don't mess with the sync yet , use the idle screw adj so you get a 1/16 drill bit gap and give that a try.

start with choke only no throttle.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 01:51:34 PM
thanks...i'll give that a try tonite and i'll let you know if it works
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 02:24:03 PM
another question...if i replace the airbox with pod filters, do i have to re-jet?
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: andyb on May 23, 2011, 02:33:15 PM
Have to? No.

Should you?  Probably.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 02:42:17 PM
i don't want to sound like a cheap-azz, but what would happen if i didn't rejet?
i'm somewhat limited in funds right now, too many other projects going on right now.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: Dan Filetti on May 23, 2011, 02:56:33 PM
More air with the same fuel jetting = running leaner than before.  Check the plugs now, if they are black and sooty, then you may be doing your motor a favour by giving it more air.  If they are already light white or white, then I would definately adjust your jetting before I ran it with pods.  If your plugs are anywhere in between, I think I'd run it with the pods for a bit, and then check the pulgs to make sure you are indeed running lean.

As for jest costing $$, apparently, if you know what you need, and others can make recomendations, new jets are pretty cheap from what I'm to understand.  Definately look into this as it may be considerably cheaper than you think to re-jet.

Check the RPM website for prices.

Dan

Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: andyb on May 23, 2011, 03:07:17 PM
If you can afford the different filters, you can afford jets.  If you cannot afford jets, you cannot afford different filters.  Easy.

Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 03:11:47 PM
well..i suppose i'll wait til i have enuff $$ and do it right.  in the mean time, i wanna get this sucker running!!
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: Dan Filetti on May 23, 2011, 03:27:50 PM
again: "Enough money", may be equivilant to a tank of gas or two:

http://www.rpmracingca.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=jet&sprice=&stype=&scat=&sman= (http://www.rpmracingca.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=jet&sprice=&stype=&scat=&sman=)

Dan
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: andyb on May 23, 2011, 06:07:55 PM
Dan, your spelling means you need a kick in the snout :P

I see that as $24 + shipping for a set of pilots and mains.  Not a lot of money there.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: SlowOldGuy on May 23, 2011, 06:58:46 PM
If you put pods filters on, shimming the needle is far more important than any jet change. 
It also happens to be the easiest and cheapest carb tuning you can do; just 4 small washers and you don't even need to remove the carbs.

As for not starting, is it even trying to fire?  Are you geting any attempt at combustion?

Are you sure the choke fuel pickup orifice  is clear in the float bowl?

DavidR.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: Dan Filetti on May 23, 2011, 07:08:37 PM
Quote from: andyb on May 23, 2011, 06:07:55 PM
Dan, your spelling means you need a kick in the snout :P

Sorry to have offended your virgin eyes.  I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputations were totally without basis in fact, and were in no way 'fair spelling' and were motivated purely by laziness and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

equivalent
favor
definitely
plugs
recommendations
definitely

Dan

Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 07:40:36 PM
i came home, took the carbs back off and adjusted the idle screw to open the throttle plates  (the throttle was all the way closed) put everything back together and tried to fire it up... choke on, no throttle.  it started, but ran really rough and kept stalling out.  then i noticed fuel coming out of the overflow tubes.  i assume that means something is stuck.  float needle?  when i reassembled the carbs, everything seemed to move freely.

afa jets and stuff, i didn't realize it was that inexpensive.  i assumed it was $30-$40 per carb.
you know what happens when you assume   :crazy:
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: RichBaker on May 23, 2011, 09:01:27 PM
Stuck floats, rap the float bowls good with a hammer handle...... or any other similar thing.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 23, 2011, 09:37:12 PM
would a 10lb sledge work? :dash2:
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: RichBaker on May 23, 2011, 09:40:50 PM
Nope, then they'd be leaking profusely.... and never stop.   :bomb:
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 24, 2011, 07:42:56 PM
wwweeelll......i took your advice and rapped the float bowls with a very small hammer and wooden dowel,
no start with choke only, then tried with partial throttle, it started and ran really rough.  had to keep throttle on or it would die.  took carbs off and removed floats and cleaned everything out and blew out with compressed air.  put floats back on and checked if they moved freely.  reassembled everything and tried to start choke only again, it started, but would die out without throttle.  ran really rough.  checked spark plugs, blacker than black. that means rich, right?   mowed the lawn to keep from putting for sale sign out front.

now what?   :flag_of_truce:

thanks for any advice,
larry
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: SlowOldGuy on May 24, 2011, 07:48:45 PM
Sounds like it doesn't want to run cold or on the choke.

Did you not read my first posts?

Since I first posted, you've had the carbs off twice
Either of these times, did you verify the choke fuel pickup orifices in the float bowls were not clogged?  
Someone just fixed this exact same problem last week.

DavidR.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 24, 2011, 08:13:14 PM
david,  i checked and cleaned out all orifices i could find.  which ones exactly are the choke fuel pickup orifices?  are they the small, thin brass tube that goes into the float bowl or the orifices built  into the float bowl itself?  either case, both are clean and clear.  i'm a newbie at this and i'm learning as i go.

thanks,
larry
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: RichBaker on May 24, 2011, 08:52:02 PM
Did you replace the fuel needle seat o-rings? Those get old and leak.....
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 24, 2011, 08:58:56 PM
i was looking in the files section under carb cleaning and i noticed something.  what is supposed to be connected to what is labeled vent 1/2 and vent 3/4?

to quote DavidR "The picture that identifies the carb ports is wrong.  The 4 ports identified as Overflow are actually choke circuit air intakes.  The ports that are called Vents also serve as the float bowl overflows"

right now i have those 2 "vents" capped.  when i stripped off the california stuff, those 2 "vents" were connected to a vent solenoid.  should i have capped them or do they need to be connected to something or to free air?
thanks for your patience for me asking all these questions!!
larry
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 24, 2011, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: RichBaker on May 24, 2011, 08:52:02 PM
Did you replace the fuel needle seat o-rings? Those get old and leak.....

rich, yes i did
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: tqmx1 on May 24, 2011, 09:54:40 PM
Remove those 2 caps PRONTO those 2 tees have to be open. Those are the float bowl vents.

And laso change the spark plugs if they are that black & sooty
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 24, 2011, 10:28:34 PM
Quote from: tqmx1 on May 24, 2011, 09:54:40 PM
Remove those 2 caps PRONTO those 2 tees have to be open. Those are the float bowl vents.

And laso change the spark plugs if they are that black & sooty

will do.  i have an extra set of plugs, so i'll change them, too.
thanks, i'm adding to my wealth of knowedge.  you guys are GREAT!    :good:
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: SlowOldGuy on May 24, 2011, 10:43:30 PM
As Kim said, do not plug those vents.  If they are plugged then the bowls will not fill up with fuel.

The choke orifice is in the tube in the side of the float bowl.  It is tiny and sometimes hard to clear if obstructed.

DavidR.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 25, 2011, 10:49:47 AM
i'm thinking of getting the unipod filters at rpm that have been mentioned.  i think i read in another post that i could shim the needles 0.5mm and not need to re-jet.  is this correct?  where would be the best place to get the shims?

thanks,
larry
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: andyb on May 25, 2011, 12:08:48 PM
The shims are just little washers.  A hardware store has them.  Hell, walmart might.

Depending on what other mods have been done, you may or may not desire different jetting as well.  Depends on how well you want it to run, really.  The proper answer is a dyno tuning session with someone who knows what they're doing, but that's quite expensive.
Title: Re: $@#@% still won't start!!
Post by: scarylarry on May 25, 2011, 10:40:43 PM
 :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:  woo hoo!!  the old girl has sprung to life!  uncapping the vents was the ticket!
thanks for all the help and putting up with all the questions.  i can't wait for it to stop raining so i can take her out for a spin.  it always feels good to solve a problem.
 
again, thanks for the help!   :good2:

larry