I know the forum members from the united states of A, the majority shareholders in fjowners.com don't have many XJR's around but has any one tried it???
From my limited research their a 17 x 5.5 wheel with a 20mm axle, they run an underslung caliper I'm just not sure on the swingarm to swingarm width though.
Here's some pics for your perusing to help me in my quest for rear wheel fatness.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/1241_09_05_11_1_36_51_0.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/1241_09_05_11_1_36_51_1.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/1241_09_05_11_1_36_51_2.jpeg)
Cheers, Ben.
The main problem will be getting the front and rear sprockets to line up.
I fitted an FJ rear to the XJR swingarm and then had to make spacers for the rear wheel.
So the other way round and you will need to get an offset sprocket for the front on the FJ. OK , no big deal they are available, but then you will need to get the XJR sprocket cover because it is deeper than an FJ one.
You know it's the old story, alter one thing and then another 3 or 4 things come along and stand in your way.
If you want me to make a few measurements i've got a spare XJR wheel i can use. I sold all my FJ stuff that wouldn't fit when i made my XJR, so i don't have a swingarm to measure from. HTH.
IIRC, the XJR countershaft is longer than an FJs....
Would that be a problem if using an offset sprocket though?
Fj111200, if you could get the hub width measurement it would be greatly appreciated. And if you know the caliper hanger width of the top of your head that also would be handy.
Cheers, Ben.
Rich is correct. But that's only one piece of the alignment puzzle. Nevermind that your specific frame may be a pinch twisted or the like, and Randy established that the motor mounts can develop enough slop to get the motor twisted a bit in the frame, which is going to cock and relocate the sprocket anyhow.
Like anything else I suppose, start with a pretty known quantity before you start modding, as fixing something else may eventually impinge on something you've modded.
I'm a little confused,
Are you saying I would have to run an xjr countershaft and an offset sprocket to get the chain straight? and in doing this your saying that it might run wonky or on the wrong angle because my engine might not be in straight anymore due to old engine mounts and frame defects?
Thanks for sharing your brainpowers with me.
Quote from: RichBaker on May 09, 2011, 07:20:03 PM
IIRC, the XJR countershaft is longer than an FJs....
Quote from: fb747 on May 09, 2011, 07:55:40 PM
Would that be a problem if using an offset sprocket though?
Fj111200, if you could get the hub width measurement it would be greatly appreciated. And if you know the caliper hanger width of the top of your head that also would be handy.
Cheers, Ben.
Yeah Rich is right, it is longer on the XJR, and so is the gearchange shaft, as i found out when building my XJR from an FJ motor, but can't see it being a problem with an offset front sprocket.
fb, the measurements are as follows, hub width on XJR1200 is 18.50cm +/- 1mm, the FJ is 17cm +/- 1mm, and the rear brake caliper hanger is 34/35mm plus or minus the odd gnats cock.
It's all if's, but's and maybe's when you're experimenting, but that's half the joy when it all falls into place ain't it?
Just realised, that shorter FJ gearchange shaft could be a problem when using the XJR sprocket cover.
I am nearly done mounting a 6" wide R1 wheel on my 92 FJ. I am also using the R1 swingarm so I did not want to mill down the sprocket carrier as has been done on many other real wheel conversions...chain clearance on the arm would have been too close for my liking. So...
I bought a 1/4" offset sprocket for the FJ from PBI Sprockets very reasonably at $40. My stock FJ sprocket was quite thick at the mounting splines- and the offset sprocket was thinner (both are 530 I am referring to the mounting area). The 1/4" offset pushed the alignment out close to where it needed to be but not perfect because of the thinner mounting section. So, I had a spacer made to make up the rest of the distance needed for offset. For my particular mod the spacer was 2.32mm set in behind the 1/4" offset sprocket. I calculated the spacer depth to leave .9mm for the bolt retaining lock tab washer to seat on the countershaft splines. The lock tab washer does not fit into the offset "well" on the face of the sprocket so I will have to grind the tabs down a bit to work properly.
I never was able to get "a measurement" of what the offset needed to be- that would be rocket science and no method I could think of was one I trusted. Instead, I mounted the wheel and the new sprocket without the lock nut- so the sprocket was "floating" on the countershaft. Then, with chain on, I spun the rear wheel until the countershaft sprocket settled into where it wanted to be. For my install- this was all the way to the outside edge of the countershaft. So all I needed was the spacer I made.... And the the counter shaft sprocket effectively rides 1/4" offset to accommodate the 6" rim.
So- my two issues were: 1- the replacement sprocket was not as thick as the stock FJ unit at the mounting splines. 2- Guess what offset would be close to accommodate a 6" rim? My approach was to just get close on the offset and then make a spacer for behind your sprocket for final positioning. I have a friend with a lathe and was able to have the spacer made to spec out of hard steel. I was prepared to buy a few offset sprockets of various offsets to find the right one if needed- I just got lucky and the first one- 1/4" was close enough for me to work it out with the spacer.
I have not yet remounted the sprocket cover fully- but I have pushed it into place and peered in from the back. There is a cad plated metal piece bolted into the inner side of the cover and I may need to remove one or two of its mount bolts or replace them with a shallower head fastener... the clearance is close but not contacting.
If I end up with trouble on the sprocket cover I intend to install one that I saw here made by Coerce from billet aluminum and providing tons of clearance. I hope to have my bike look OEM at the end of the day so the custom cover is my last resort...
I will be updating my mod thread soon with pictures etc..
You should be able to get that wheel on your bike.- Good luck!
tim
Quote from: axiom-r on May 10, 2011, 10:06:20 AM
I have not yet remounted the sprocket cover fully- but I have pushed it into place and peered in from the back. There is a cad plated metal piece bolted into the inner side of the cover and I may need to remove one or two of its mount bolts or replace them with a shallower head fastener... the clearance is close but not contacting.
If I end up with trouble on the sprocket cover I intend to install one that I saw here made by Coerce from billet aluminum and providing tons of clearance. I hope to have my bike look OEM at the end of the day so the custom cover is my last resort...
I will be updating my mod thread soon with pictures etc..
You should be able to get that wheel on your bike.- Good luck!
tim
Tim,
The XJ sprocket cover is wider and will bolt right on. You will need to change the shift shaft and the clutch push rod to the XJ version as well. The XJ trans is 8mm wider as well as the side cover, shift shaft and pushrod to compensate for the wider wheel of the XJR1300.
Quote from: RichBaker on May 09, 2011, 07:20:03 PM
IIRC, the XJR countershaft is longer than an FJs....
8mm
Randy - RPM
Randy,
the clutch push rod is the same for the FJ and XJR. I've rebuilt an FJ to XJR spec, and the only differences are the main axle shaft, or countershaft as you call it, the gearchange shaft and the sprocket cover.
Thanks Randy- great info! But I am hopeful that I can make minor or no modification to the stock cover and have it work! If not, I will certainly look at the XJ parts. Is the shift shaft an easy change out?
tim
I tried to make the stock sprocket cover fit, by taking out the damper, but it's just too narrow.
The shift shaft is easy to change, but to gain access to it you need to take the complete clutch and boss out.
Quote from: axiom-r on May 10, 2011, 10:55:29 AM
Thanks Randy- great info! But I am hopeful that I can make minor or no modification to the stock cover and have it work! If not, I will certainly look at the XJ parts. Is the shift shaft an easy change out?
tim
Tim,
You have to remove the clutch assy at change out the shift shaft, not hard. Let me know if you need parts, I should be able to come up with everything used.
Quote from: FJ111200 on May 10, 2011, 10:42:51 AM
Randy,
the clutch push rod is the same for the FJ and XJR. I've rebuilt an FJ to XJR spec, and the only differences are the main axle shaft, or countershaft as you call it, the gearchange shaft and the sprocket cover.
Believe me when I say they are different; I have rebuilt hundreds of engines and they are definitely different by 8mm. Something has to compensate for the additional width of the cover which also moves the slave cylinder out by the same amount.
Randy - RPM
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/ClutchPushRod001.jpg)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/ClutchPushRod002.jpg)
Yeah mate, i must have forgotten. :scratch_one-s_head:
the XJR wheel is 5.5" ?
the FZ1 wheel is the same width...... using the honda VF1000R countershaft sprocket you should be able to get the chain to line up with that wheel.
just machine the outside face of the sprocket flush and you will still be able to use the locking ring and nut.
maybe a slight bit of clearancing behind the countershaft cover but everything should work.
only issue i see is fitting the wheel in the FJ swingarm (i just used the entire FZ1 rear end)
KOokaloo!
Randy and Tim FYI,
Many years ago, Steve Conklin installed the XJR output shaft and sprocket cover on his HSR1349 motor.
What he found out (the hard way) after putting the motor back in the frame, is that he could not get the XJR cover off with the motor installed in the FJ frame.
Steve ended up having to take his new motor back out, taking off the XJR sprocket cover, and performing major surgery on the cover, so he could get it on and off with the motor installed...
Just so you know...
How many days until the WCR....?
Thanks Pat- I am really hopeful that only some minor "adjustment" will be needed on the stock cover to allow more comfortable clearance. it clears now but it is tight....
WCR coming fast... there is a still a slim chance that i am going to show up on the FJR1... but I refuse to hurry as that leads to mistakes!
tim
The sheet metal piece inside is likely only for noise suppression, I would take it out and remove the bosses it mounts to if it was mine....
Quote from: RichBaker on May 11, 2011, 07:58:31 PM
The sheet metal piece inside is likely only for noise suppression, I would take it out and remove the bosses it mounts to if it was mine....
Rich, I've always wondered what that in there for.. noise suppression you say?
Hmmmm, I wonder if that's why the oem counter sprocket had that hard rubber collar? Noise?
It makes sense, but really, how much noise can or does that area of the motor produce anyway?
Pat, Rich; I think you're a right, but it's not engine noise they're trying to cover, but the chain going around the countershaft. Every little bit helps when you're trying to make the noise meter happy. Less chain/engine noise SHOULD equal MORE intake/exhaust noise (which hopefully means more power).
My $0.02
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 12, 2011, 01:29:03 AM
Quote from: RichBaker on May 11, 2011, 07:58:31 PM
The sheet metal piece inside is likely only for noise suppression, I would take it out and remove the bosses it mounts to if it was mine....
Rich, I've always wondered what that in there for.. noise suppression you say?
Hmmmm, I wonder if that's why the oem counter sprocket had that hard rubber collar? Noise?
It makes sense, but really, how much noise can or does that area of the motor produce anyway?
IIRC, I read back in the day that it was a real challenge to meet noise standards in the ride by tests, so they were doing anything they could to cut mechanical noises in order to keep from further strangling the intake and exhaust. Bikes with air cooled mills needed some tricks.
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: RichBaker on May 11, 2011, 07:58:31 PM
The sheet metal piece inside is likely only for noise suppression, I would take it out and remove the bosses it mounts to if it was mine....
Thanks Rich! I was thinking that Yamaha added it to give more strength to the cover for a thrown chain but noise suppression makes perfect sense. It also jibes with the odd rubber collars on the stock CS sprocket..... its all making sense and it adds up to removing that plate. Just taking the bolts off should give me the clearance I need.
Quote from: simi_ed on May 12, 2011, 02:14:04 AM
Pat, Rich; I think you're a right, but it's not engine noise they're trying to cover, but the chain going around the countershaft. Every little bit helps when you're trying to make the noise meter happy. Less chain/engine noise SHOULD equal MORE intake/exhaust noise (which hopefully means more power).
My $0.02
Ed got it.....
OK SO who has done this ??? Any link to the Counter Shaft Off set sprocket i need ??? any other mods needed and What about the XJR1300 Front Wheel will it fit as well ??
There are several generations of XJR wheels...
From about late 2003 XJR 13's had electronic speedo drive sensor off the tranny output shaft nut so no speedo drive adapter on the front wheel...
Same generation and up also ran 19mm front axle so would require some adaptation to the smaller FJ front axle...
XJR 1200 and early 1300 non SP ran the smaller diameter axle and took the same brake disc mounting PCD as 90-ish FJ so that's probably the easiest rim to go for...
The good news is, I've just measured my own FJ and XJR along side each other and they have the same fork tube center to center at 210.0 mm and the same disc to disc mount spacing so an early rim would slot right in to the FJ lowers with little or no spacer modification and the brake calipers would line up to the discs too (and it also opens the door to the possibility of easily fitting the late XJR 43mm cartridge forks with minimal modification if anyone else reading ever wanted to try that).
Hmmm...
So are you saying that a whole front end from a XJR1200 will slot straight in to the FJ triple tree with no modifications, or would you have to bore out the clamps? (cant remember/find FJ fork diameter)
If so you would get the benefit of a 3.5" front rim and thicker cartridge forks without compromising your ignition/steering lock setup?
Quote from: fb747 on July 31, 2011, 10:50:16 AM
So are you saying that a whole front end from a XJR1200 will slot straight in to the FJ triple tree with no modifications, or would you have to bore out the clamps? (cant remember/find FJ fork diameter)
fJ Is 41mm, you'd need to bore the triples out...
Quote from: fb747 on July 31, 2011, 10:50:16 AM
If so you would get the benefit of a 3.5" front rim and thicker cartridge forks without compromising your ignition/steering lock setup?
In terms of performance - I don't know much about early XJR12 forks except what I can tell you is they are noetheless by then 43 mm. So I'm not recommending nor vouching for earlier XJR 12 forks as being even cartridge... I've never really thought about using them...
The only forks I consider to be worthwhile are later ones from XJR 1300 SP (suspension package) which take the 19mm hollow axles and therefore gen 2 wheels which in turn take the 150mm PCD discs (same PCD as mid era R1 discs). This setup would give you a speedo drive and after boring out the triples would bolt right in...
Best yet would be current 07 and up forks that Yamaha finally got the spring rates correct (only took 'em 40 years).
THESE forks are what I'd recommend and would also take either the gen 2 (curved spoke) or gen 3 (straight spoke) rims...
If I decide to do this conversion on my own FJ I'd make the compromise to have no on-board cable drive speedo and use the current rim which
between the front and rear rims saves over 3kg (6.6lbs) of rotating un-sprung mass - a worthwhile compromise IMHO to have no speedo... You can always use GPS speedo (I don't run a speedo on my XJR anyway, air/fuel ratio data-logger display is more important)...
Well i have just recieved XJR 1200 Rim no idea of the model unless its stamped in the rim (ill check it later) going to get a friend with a lathe to help me mount it up, looks to be about 8mm difference in the sprocket alignment thinking about doing the Out Put Shaft swap to the XJR 1200 Shaft to save using a off set sprocket ? Does anyone know the price of the XJR 1200 OutPut Shaft and where to get one ? I have the motor for this FJ 1200 pulled down at the moment and think id be crazy not to swap the shaft while its apart, Off set sprockets would be good enough for me but if i swap the shaft now i can use standard sprockets in future. Also have a set of FZR 1000 Rims now for my stock FJ 1200 but now realising the 18" Rear has a limited range of tires(tyre) but its got to be easier than the FJ standard wheel for sure?
Not really. Not much worth a crap in 18" sizes, perhaps a slightly different poor selection than the 16" is all.
Quote from: Seanextra on August 05, 2011, 07:38:46 AM
Well i have just recieved XJR 1200 Rim no idea of the model unless its stamped in the rim.
If it's actually from a 1200 (not a 13) then there's only one type rear rim and it takes the solid small diameter axle and has three curved/swept spokes?
This is the Wheel , Trial fitted it and it sits nearly hard on the disc side with 26mm gap on the sprocket side looks like it will need some trimming around the carrier and about 13 mm off the disc bracket and might come in pretty good alignment with a off set front sprocket this is just a quick look not much time lately busy with work! Ill let you know how i go or if anyone else beats me to it or has done it before please share your experience!
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqEOKnQE3Y4Gvz9+BOCqy-uMLw~~_12.JPG)
how did you go with the wheel swaps