had bike completly apart past couplde weeks replacing bearing and seals and everything else. I finally got put back together, put gas in tank and started it, ran for like 2 minutes and then shut off, and everytime i keep starting it, it just shuts off after 2 seconds, anyone wanna tell me what happened?
how much fuel did you put in the tank ?
out of gas ?
fuel line has a kink in it between the petcock and the carbs ?
KOokaloo!
full tank, clean li nes, no kinks nothing but im not worried about that now, got a new problem
Open the petcock.
okay let me refraise this.
I rebuilt carbs, so there is no gas in carbs or lines at all. i put gas tank on and filled with gas, cranked over for 30 seconds and it started, its getting gas.
Then after 2 minutes it shuts off.
So if there is no gas in the carbs or lines but starts why would i need to open the petcock for fuel to go through when its already open
Quote from: irishluck on April 17, 2011, 09:46:44 PM
okay let me refraise this.
I rebuilt carbs, so there is no gas in carbs or lines at all. i put gas tank on and filled with gas, cranked over for 30 seconds and it started, its getting gas.
Then after 2 minutes it shuts off.
So if there is no gas in the carbs or lines but starts why would i need to open the petcock for fuel to go through when its already open
Hey, don't get pissy when we try to give you FREE troubleshooting help without you offering up the whole story... how in the hell am I supposed to know this?
Randy T
Indy
use the float bowl drains to confirm you have fuel at the carbs.
did you hook up the vacuum hose from #2 carb to the petcock?
if you did not put more than 1 gallon of fuel then you may be on reserve.
When starting the fj pull the choke all the way up and just push the start button and no throttle. Depending on how cold the engine is rpm's will be around 2,000 until it warms a bit then rpm's will climb to 5,000 . slowly push the choke in till rpm's drop to around 2,000. let it run until you can turn the throttle without stumble, then push the choke the rest of the way in and rev with throttle . when it does not bog or stumble you are ready to ride. this procedure can take 2-10 minutes depending on ambient temperature.
idle rpm should be 1000-1200 rpm. they don't like to be lower than 1000.
If this is not how your 87 fj1200 behaves then you have a problem.
I know this post is a bit redundant but some people don't know how to start a fj.
Quote
Hey, don't get pissy when we try to give you FREE troubleshooting help without you offering up the whole story... how in the hell am I supposed to know this?
Randy T
Indy
its common sense. if i just put the fuel tank back on and then put gas in it, and it starts up, how would the petcock be closed? i mean that dont make sense at all. its obvouisly open if the bike started for 2 minutes.
Mark Olson:
I do have fuel in the carbs, 2nd there is not vacuum hose to go to the petcock, or well there is no valve or anything coming off the petcock for that.
i had like almost a fuel tank.
and the bike sat there and ran with the choke pulled out for 2-3 minutes and then shut off, then would barely turn on again after
Quote from: irishluck on April 17, 2011, 11:25:35 PM
Quote
Hey, don't get pissy when we try to give you FREE troubleshooting help without you offering up the whole story... how in the hell am I supposed to know this?
Randy T
Indy
its common sense. if i just put the fuel tank back on and then put gas in it, and it starts up, how would the petcock be closed? i mean that dont make sense at all. its obvouisly open if the bike started for 2 minutes.
Mark Olson:
I do have fuel in the carbs, 2nd there is not vacuum hose to go to the petcock, or well there is no valve or anything coming off the petcock for that.
i had like almost a fuel tank.
and the bike sat there and ran with the choke pulled out for 2-3 minutes and then shut off, then would barely turn on again after
Because if you didn't have the carbs off, there would still be fuel in them.
But hey, since you said you "had bike completly apart past couplde weeks replacing bearing and seals and everything else", I guess we can just take it for granted that you had the
entire bike dismantled, huh? Every nut and bolt, huh?
But since you seem to think I lack common sense, I'm done trying to figure it out.
Ingrate.
Randy T
Indy
Unless the 87 has a aftermarket fuel valve there will be a 2 wire connector the fuel line nipple and a small (approx 1/8") coming off it. There is always a chance some one converted it over to a 1100 valve then the 2 wires would not be there and it would have a Prime/run/off control on the left side of the valve but it would still have the vacuum line.
there should be a vacuum line going to the petcock. it is very small and hard to see, as you look at the petcock there is a small port near the top facing towards the front of the bike. the vacuum line goes from this to the #2 intake between the carb and the head. there is also a #1 intake port that should have a vacuum line going to the ignition module.
do you have either of these vacuum lines?
If they are both hooked up then you may have a kink in the fuel line due to bad routing of the fuel line.
It still sounds like you are running out of fuel.
Quote from: tqmx1 on April 18, 2011, 12:11:28 AM
Unless the 87 has a aftermarket fuel valve there will be a 2 wire connector the fuel line nipple and a small (approx 1/8") coming off it. There is always a chance some one converted it over to a 1100 valve then the 2 wires would not be there and it would have a Prime/run/off control on the left side of the valve but it would still have the vacuum line.
honestly idk, ive looked on it and the petcock only has 1 line coming off of it and no other connectors or anything for any other lines...
so my guess is that it is after market or the 1100 like you are saying. and its weird, if you look at the diagram the gas tank, well it shows that the pepcock on there has some long vertical piece and 2 lines. Mine only has 1 main line coming out of the bottom and doesn't have that vertical piece. # 10 im guessing.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2942v4m.jpg)
Quote from: Mark Olson on April 18, 2011, 01:36:51 AM
there should be a vacuum line going to the petcock. it is very small and hard to see, as you look at the petcock there is a small port near the top facing towards the front of the bike. the vacuum line goes from this to the #2 intake between the carb and the head. there is also a #1 intake port that should have a vacuum line going to the ignition module.
do you have either of these vacuum lines?
If they are both hooked up then you may have a kink in the fuel line due to bad routing of the fuel line.
It still sounds like you are running out of fuel.
ya i dont have those lines coming from the pepcock, ill have to take a picture of it for ya guys when i get home tonight to show ya what mine looks like. but the thing was, before i even disassembled the bike, it ran fine, i just wanted to clean it up and paint and what not.
#19 vacum line hook this line up fuel should come out
#13 fuel line goes to carbs
:flag_of_truce:
ok once again, there is no place for a vacuum line on my pepcock
Quote from: irishluck on April 17, 2011, 11:25:35 PM
Quote
Hey, don't get pissy when we try to give you FREE troubleshooting help without you offering up the whole story... how in the hell am I supposed to know this?
Randy T
Indy
its common sense...
Quote from: rktmanfj on April 17, 2011, 11:36:45 PM
But since you seem to think I lack common sense, I'm done trying to figure it out.
Ingrate.
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: irishluck on April 11, 2011, 09:46:48 AM
...buttt i actually work for a motorcycle shop...
Quote from: andyb on April 18, 2011, 10:34:56 AM
If there's no nasty noises when turning it over, start with a compression test.
If that is flunked, pull the valve cover and start lookin for issues.
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 02:52:21 PM
ya not gona do a compression test cause it pops
i really think i just threw the timing.
:scratch_one-s_head: Makes one wonder why there are so many questions; it seems like the answers and "cheaper parts" are readily available to him. :crazy:
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 03:27:10 PM
well i did take the head cover off and when we looked at it we couldn't tell much difference but think i jumped one tooth. How do i possible turn the crank to line the cams up to make sure there timed?
Maybe it is time for you to use the search function instead of reading the established members solicitated advice and then basically telling them they are wrong and you know more than them.
:scratch_one-s_head: Makes one wonder why there are so many questions; it seems like the "answers" and "cheaper parts" are readily available to you. :crazy:
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 08:55:12 AM
and doesn't have that vertical piece. # 10 im guessing.
ill have to take a picture of it for ya guys when i get home tonight to show ya what mine looks like.
#10 is just the strainer, It is inside the gas tank. So you can't see it unless you remove the petcock.
A picture would help quite a bit, I don't see anywhere in this thread where you say what year bike you have.
I see everyone else calls it an 87 so I assume they are right. Still, the more info you give the better feed back you will get.
And yes the fuel hose routing can be very sensitive on these bikes, I have seen them run fine for 10 minutes and then shut off.
Wait a while crank it crank it crank it and then it runs for another 10 minutes.
It may be possible that you have a aftermarket petcock. Doubtful but possible.
The brown nipple here is the vacuum port on the FJ oem petcocks. This should hook up to a rubber vacuum line which goes to #3 intake port.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/1/49_06_01_11_12_33_47.jpeg)
okay boss let me explain this a little easier for ya.
yes i work for a motorcycle shop, IM A WEBSITE DESIGHNER. not a mechanic. better? good
2nd im not going to do a compression test when the engine is grinding and popping when i turn it over.
3rd the company stricktly works with moto guzzi bike, not yamaha kaws or suzuki. Moto Guzzi is a way differnt bike then those.
Better?
heres what my "petcock" looks like
and it is an 87, yes.
(http://i55.tinypic.com/30hlfyp.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2ur2muq.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/25oxnyb.jpg)
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 08:37:57 PM
heres what my "petcock" looks like
and it is an 87, yes.
(http://i55.tinypic.com/30hlfyp.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2ur2muq.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/25oxnyb.jpg)
Dude!!! Great reply, that is not OEM!!! A picture is worth a 1,000 words. You have a straight fuel supply to a shut off valve or worse, the carbs (maybe a vacuum switch). No filter or fuel control, very old school and not stock. This guy needs our help, not angst. he has been bashed by the dreaded PO!!!!
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 08:37:57 PM
heres what my "petcock" looks like
Looks like your question has been answered. Compare your pic to the one that Pat posted. You have an aftermarket petcock.
That is not a petcock, that is a home made fitting someone made. There's one of your problems.
There's no way to shut the fuel off at all. There not cheap.
Bob W
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 08:18:50 PM
yes i work for a motorcycle shop, IM A WEBSITE DESIGHNER.
Cool! :good2: I know a little something about that field. What is the link to the site you built for them? (also - as an FYI - there is a "Spell Check" button to the right of the "Post" button - I use it all the time - it helps me)
Quote from: Marsh White on April 18, 2011, 08:50:23 PM
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 08:18:50 PM
yes i work for a motorcycle shop, IM A WEBSITE DESIGHNER.
Cool! :good2: I know a little something about that field. What is the link to the site you built for them? (also - as an FYI - there is a "Spell Check" button to the right of the "Post" button - I use it all the time - it helps me)
Marsh, I think he is stressed, getting bashed by us when the PO did the super quality work and left him with a sub standard bike. That would drive me batty (homicidal) . The older the bike, the more crazy and numerous the PO's are found. Bugger the PO's!!!!
i can see that home made fitting letting all kinds of particles thru it..... sadly those particles would be just the right size to plug up the jets in the carbs.
KOokaloo!
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 08:37:57 PM
(http://i54.tinypic.com/25oxnyb.jpg)
Looks like an in-line valve in the hose and by the photo of the back side and it looks like it is in the closed position by the shadow of red.
"sigh", just think where we all could have been if we had this a few days ago...
That is my input based on the most current information supplied by the unlucky, "irishluck". Those pictures provided more info than all of his posts combined.
Randy - RPM
hold on, there is a valve on it and it does shut the fuel off when needed.
ha ha okay so i should have posted pics first, i get that now and will remember that=D
OK so the set up on this though is that "petcock" goes to fuel filter, then to carbs.
and the "PO" don't bug me, i have a legal PO already so i get bashed quite often.
The link to the site Ive been building is harpermoto.com
WE deal with moto guzzi motorcycles.
okayy soo im guessing this so called "petcock" is pretty bad and needs a new one correct
Edit:
when i bought the bike it actually ran pretty good, the flue tank was in pretty bad shape though, all rusted on the inside and gunked up, so i bought that por-15 kit and it has actually done really good sealing the tank all up/
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 09:21:45 PM
hold on, there is a valve on it and it does shut the fuel off when needed.
Way past the point (maybe a pint of stout or two will help the thinking process, mull it over) Mr. Irish. You have zero filter and no fuel control when the power is off (bad for gravity years like my 86/87 bike). Your set up is way past OEM!!! We want to help. Let us guide you to the path of Kookaloo and FJ enjoyment.
When we say PO it means Previous Owner, he guy who cuts corners. It is the bane of our FJ existence. Some of us are in the same state of Kookaloo impairment.
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 09:25:23 PM
okayy soo im guessing this so called "petcock" is pretty bad and needs a new one correct
Yeppers. Throw that POS away. Buy a oem 84/85 Yamaha petcock with a real filter screen.
You see the problem with that home made tank fitting, is that unless you reach under the tank and manually close the valve EVERYTIME you shut your engine off, all you need is a tiny speck of debris or varnish holding your float needle open, then you entire tank of gas will end up on your garage floor... :bomb:
Of course your garage door will be shut and your water heater will cycle on....
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 18, 2011, 08:56:06 PM
Marsh, I think he is stressed, getting bashed by us when the PO did the super quality work and left him with a sub standard bike. That would drive me batty (homicidal) . The older the bike, the more crazy and numerous the PO's are found. Bugger the PO's!!!!
That's all fine and dandy that he is "stressed", but I think he has turned/pissed off those that have a great amount of experience by his reply posts of those offering assistance.
His posts are condescending, rude and basically tell those who have tried to help him to date: Nope, you don't know what you're talking about.
The ironic part of it all is the fact I look at the picture, after reading all of his posts, for just a few seconds and it appears the in-line valve the "PO" installed is closed. It might let a little bit of fuel by, but it would likely run out causing the bike to "die"...
This website is a great source of information and people willing to help, but 99% of the time the answers are "spitball" answers trying to narrow the problem because no one explains things the same way.
From there the receiver of that "help" should not be condescending telling someone "it's common sense", "okay boss let me explain this a little easier for ya", and finally "better? good".
And now after I respond there is a valve in line; "hold on, there is a valve on it and it does shut the fuel off when needed."
Maybe, he can turn around the many he has alienated and get the assistance he needs, but again, by the tone of his replies; we'll have to see what happens.
Randy - RPM
ah gotcha, ok ok, help me get this bike running. i can use all the advice i can get and would appreciate it.
problem is, that part is 167 dollars.
Whats another choice here....
Thats an aftermarket Pet cock? ... wow....looks like a plate with a hole drilled in it. :shok:
Quote from: racerrad8 on April 18, 2011, 09:39:47 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 18, 2011, 08:56:06 PM
Marsh, I think he is stressed, getting bashed by us when the PO did the super quality work and left him with a sub standard bike. That would drive me batty (homicidal) . The older the bike, the more crazy and numerous the PO's are found. Bugger the PO's!!!!
That's all fine and dandy that he is "stressed", but I think he has turned/pissed off those that have a great amount of experience by his reply posts of those offering assistance.
His posts are condescending, rude and basically tell those who have tried to help him to date: Nope, you don't know what you're talking about.
The ironic part of it all is the fact I look at the picture, after reading all of his posts, for just a few seconds and it appears the in-line valve the "PO" installed is closed. It might let a little bit of fuel by, but is would likely run out causing the bike to "die"...
This website is a great source of information and people willing to help, but 99% of the time the answers are "spitball" answers trying to narrow the problem because no one explains things the same way.
From there the receiver of that "help" should not be condescending telling someone "it's common sense", "okay boss let me explain this a little easier for ya", "better? good".
And now after I respond there is a valve in line; "hold on, there is a valve on it and it does shut the fuel off when needed."
Maybe, he can turn around the many he has alienated and get the assistance he needs, but again, by the tone of his replies; we'll have to see what happens.
Randy - RPM
Randy, I see your point and respect it. I have been stuck at times when I did not know I was lacking information, not knowing when to scratch my watch or wind my ass. Maybe I am just over tolerant for most. I think he is trying but is hitting walls with language or what he is used to in communicating by written language.
Looks like Irish has collected the gist. Good on ya.....As you were.
okay so i didnt tgive the full deatils and blew up a little, sorry, im a stressed guy.
so can we move past this and i guess go on.
and just to let ya knbow, yes the valve is turned off cause the gas tank is off the bike and i dont want it leaking all over anything really.
so my question is now, is there a less expensive way to fixing this then buying a new oem replacement that is 160 bucks?
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 10:20:46 PM
so my question is now, is there a less expensive way to fixing this then buying a new oem replacement that is 160 bucks?
My guess would be no. Cutting corners on the fuel systems on these bikes is (literally) playing with fire. If you want to be sure you won't turn into a flaming street rocket get the correct OEM part for safety 's sake.
Do you have any motorcycle re-recyclers in your area? Here in Indy we have a couple places called Cycle-Recycle and they have thousands of parts bikes and used parts. Perhaps you can find a used tank/petcock.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-YAMAHA-FJ1200-FJ-1200-FUEL-TANK-PETCOCK-2-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf67edefeQQitemZ330553024254QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-YAMAHA-FJ1200-FJ-1200-FUEL-TANK-PETCOCK-2-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf67edefeQQitemZ330553024254QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 10:20:46 PM
okay so i didnt tgive the full deatils and blew up a little, sorry, im a stressed guy.
so can we move past this and i guess go on.
and just to let ya knbow, yes the valve is turned off cause the gas tank is off the bike and i dont want it leaking all over anything really.
so my question is now, is there a less expensive way to fixing this then buying a new oem replacement that is 160 bucks?
Irish, there should be some options for you. I have a stock valve and have cleaned it out a few times, major budget issues. You have some "PO" type fix that needs to be replaced. There are other after market fixes like the Pingle valve, maybe Randy has some input on this. OEM petcocks are getting harder to find but solutions are out there.....Like some mystical voice is whispering the background.....Keep the faith brother.
I mean I understand the fact that I need to get an actually Petcock and not the cheap version of what the PO did.
Quote from: indyblue on April 18, 2011, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 10:20:46 PM
so my question is now, is there a less expensive way to fixing this then buying a new oem replacement that is 160 bucks?
My guess would be no. Cutting corners on the fuel systems on these bikes is (literally) playing with fire. If you want to be sure you won't turn into a flaming street rocket get the correct OEM part for safety 's sake.
Do you have any motorcycle re-recyclers in your area? Here in Indy we have a couple places called Cycle-Recycle and they have thousands of parts bikes and used parts. Perhaps you can find a used tank/petcock.
a flaming street rocket be kinda cool ha
no but on a serious note, i do know of one place down here where I'm at in kansas city, called auto cycle i do believe, they deal with alot of used parts. They actually parted out a 85 fj1200 and i bought the chain adjuster and gas cap off. Have to see if the petcock looks up for grabs.
Flying Scotsman:
That petcock looks good at all but one question. what is that plug that comes off of it, I don't even see a plug on my bike for that?
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 18, 2011, 10:37:12 PM
Quote from: irishluck on April 18, 2011, 10:20:46 PM
Irish, there should be some options for you. I have a stock valve and have cleaned it out a few times, major budget issues. You have some "PO" type fix that needs to be replaced. There are other after market fixes like the Pingle valve, maybe Randy has some input on this. OEM petcocks are getting harder to find but solutions are out there.....Like some mystical voice is whispering the background.....Keep the faith brother.
Oh i know ill be able to find something, just the money issue is all ha. what exactly is a pingle valve?
Well if anyone has any feed on an after market one that doesn't look like my crap one, that be great!
(popcorn) (popcorn)
ok, go into the service area of your m/c shop and borrow the aux fuel tank and hook it up to your carbs and verify that the fj runs with an alternative fuel source.
Then you will know for sure if it is indeed a tank petcock problem.
Quote from: irishluck on April 19, 2011, 09:26:15 AM
They actually parted out a 85 fj1200
That petcock looks good at all but one question. what is that plug that comes off of it, I don't even see a plug on my bike for that?
85 is an 1100 with no reserve switch. In 86 (1200) they went with the electric reserve switch, does your bike have a reserve switch on the left side near the choke cable?
Quote from: Travis398 on April 19, 2011, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: irishluck on April 19, 2011, 09:26:15 AM
They actually parted out a 85 fj1200
That petcock looks good at all but one question. what is that plug that comes off of it, I don't even see a plug on my bike for that?
85 is an 1100 with no reserve switch. In 86 (1200) they went with the electric reserve switch, does your bike have a reserve switch on the left side near the choke cable?
Irish/Travis....
There was a reason why I suggested a '84/85 oem petcock. Stay away from the troublesome wacky oem electric reserve petcocks.
I was just explaining what he had. Trying not to influence his decision. I assume he knows his options are
1. stock (w/reserve sw.)
2. 1100 petcock
3. Aftermarket
In reverse order of course.
" ....Irish/Travis....
There was a reason why I suggested a '84/85 oem petcock. Stay away from the troublesome wacky oem electric reserve petcocks...."
blasphemy pat... never had a problem with my original OEM 25 yr old petrol tap. :blum1:
i just left mine unplugged.... doesnt hurt anything plus there is already a low fuel light for back up.
KOokaloo!
Quote from: Kopfjaeger on April 19, 2011, 08:36:48 PM
... never had a problem with my original OEM 25 yr old petrol tap. :blum1:
Okey Dokey, how 'bout the fact that the '86/87's electric reserve petcock's MSRP is $275, and the '84/85 petcock's MSRP is $156
just stirrin pat... its ok... :good2:geez are they really that pricey? hope like hell mine doesnt poo its knickers anytime soon then!!
Quote from: Kopfjaeger on April 20, 2011, 08:55:50 AM
just stirrin pat... its ok... :good2:geez are they really that pricey? hope like hell mine doesnt poo its knickers anytime soon then!!
Yes, Yes they are.
That's why if you own a 84-85 or a 86-87 and you see used petcocks for CHEAP money, YOU BUY THEM.
Put it on a shelf with all the other parts you hope you'll never need. :crazy:
Bob W
Quote from: weymouth399 on April 20, 2011, 09:08:52 AM
Put it on a shelf with all the other parts you hope you'll never need. :crazy:
Bob W
I didn't see the wall of petcocks when I was there, were they in a remote climate controlled facility for safekeeping?
Pat/Travis
My bike does have the reserve switch on it. so I'm guessing the 84/85 doesn't have a reserve but what if I'm wanting a reserve? or is that really not needed?
Quote from: irishluck on April 20, 2011, 09:47:15 AM
Pat/Travis
..... so I'm guessing the 84/85 doesn't have a reserve but what if I'm wanting a reserve? or is that really not needed?
Correct, the '84/85 does not have the electric reserve. In my opinion the troublesome electric reserve is not needed, it's just something else to go wrong.... The fuel warning light on the dash is sufficient, along with your trip odometer.
again, just my opinion.
doesnt the reserve switch like just create "pressure" in the tank to use the rest of the fuel? just curious, its what ive heard
Quote from: irishluck on April 20, 2011, 03:53:45 PM
doesnt the reserve switch like just create "pressure" in the tank to use the rest of the fuel? just curious, its what ive heard
No, the F&%# thing shuts off your fuel till you flip the switch. Might happen during a real Kookaloo moment when you are getting around that slow long ass truck during the only passing spot for 20 miles. it is not just one more thing that can go wrong. It is one more thing that can wrong at a really bad time.
I just recently bought 84/85 petcocks from Boats.net and Zanotti's. Can't find the receipts, but the one from Boats was more expensive at about $137 delivered.
DavidR.