Poll
Question:
Hard to start when hot
Option 1: help
votes: 2
Option 2: please
votes: 2
I have a 1989 FJ 1200 which i recently purchased. It is very hard to start when hot. Starts first time when cold or if you pull the choke right out it will start when hot. If you try to start normally when hot it is as if the battery is flat and wont kick it over.
That's a good question (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2898.0).
Not sure if it's ever happened to an FJ before (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=44.msg252#msg252).
I especially like the poll options (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2709.0).
Maybe you should search, just in case someone's had this problem before (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2551.msg20222#msg20222)!
FJ nut
Sounds like your carbs are a little dirty/gumed up. It's like your pilot jets are slightly plugged.
Thats why it starts with choke, even hot. My 86 or 89 only needs half choke even cold.
where are you located? any questions please ask.
Bob W
well... after that warm welcome...
As weymouth399 said its most likely dirty carbs causing the problem. pay attention to the pilot jet and mixture circuit when cleaning. It could also be an issue with valve clearance. the valves tend to tighten up over time and can cause hot start issues as well. There are quite a few friendly folks around here that can help you through both processes. Both are relatively easy to fix with time and patience.
Good Luck and welcome.
Bill
Quote from: andyb on February 10, 2011, 02:14:16 AM
That's a good question (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2898.0).
Not sure if it's ever happened to an FJ before (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=44.msg252#msg252).
I especially like the poll options (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2709.0).
Maybe you should search, just in case someone's had this problem before (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2551.msg20222#msg20222)!
(popcorn)
He said: "If you try to start normally when hot it is as if the battery is flat and wont kick it over."
That does not sound like carbs to me. It sounds like Battery, Connections/ Starter weakness (need of a rebuild?).
You may want to try a new battery, also, crack the throttle an 1/8th of a turn when starting when hot. Seems to help.
Dan
Quote from: Dan Filetti on February 10, 2011, 08:49:42 AM
Quote from: andyb on February 10, 2011, 02:14:16 AM
That's a good question (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2898.0).
Not sure if it's ever happened to an FJ before (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=44.msg252#msg252).
I especially like the poll options (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2709.0).
Maybe you should search, just in case someone's had this problem before (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2551.msg20222#msg20222)!
(popcorn)
I reckon Andy's out of coffee again... :morning2:
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: Dan Filetti on February 10, 2011, 08:52:18 AM
He said: "If you try to start normally when hot it is as if the battery is flat and wont kick it over."
That does not sound like carbs to me. It sounds like Battery, Connections/ Starter weakness (need of a rebuild?).
You may want to try a new battery, also, crack the throttle an 1/8th of a turn when starting when hot. Seems to help.
Dan
I'm with ya on that one Dan. It sounds EXACTLY like what mine was doing, until I found some dirty cable connections.
:pardon: He also said, that it will start cold with choke or hot with choke. It shouldn't do that, even with a with a low or dead battery. Carbs need work, and poss a complete tuneup. like Andy said
No engine should start hot needing the choke.....
Bob W
Probably just needs about 10 years worth of maintenance done, really. Carbs are probably full of crap, battery connections likely need attention, plugs are likely a bit old, all the fluids haven't been touched in awhile, starter needs cleaned and fresh grease, etc. At least, that's my guess, that's how these things usually go.
Quote from: andyb on February 10, 2011, 11:07:23 AM
Probably just needs about 10 years worth of maintenance done, really. Carbs are probably full of crap, battery connections likely need attention, plugs are likely a bit old, all the fluids haven't been touched in awhile, starter needs cleaned and fresh grease, etc.
sounds like Andy hit all the nails on the head.
I voted help on the poll, hope that helps :good:
Quote from: weymouth399 on February 10, 2011, 09:09:18 AM
He also said, that it will start cold with choke or hot with choke. It shouldn't do that, even with a with a low or dead battery.No engine should start hot needing the choke.....
Bob W
Opening up the choke is a lot like cracking the throttle. It opens up a nice air channel which bypasses the throttle plate. This would provide the same effect as slightly cracking the throttle when cranking. Obviously it would run rich if hot, but I'll bet once it's started then he can turn the choke off and all is well until the next hot start cycle.
I'm with Dan; Sounds like a starter cleaning or weak main power/ground connection.
Although clean carbs never hurt anything. :-)
DavidR.
Thanks guys for the tips. Im in Newcastle NSW Australia. I have cleaned the battery terminals and replaced the battery and this made no difference to the starting problem. I have checked the valve clearances and all are within the required range so it must be the carbies. Once started the bike runs fine until you have to start it again hot. Once the choke is pulled out it whirls over no problem at all. I will pull off the carbies and give them a good clean. Can you give me some tips on what i need to do to the starter motor for maintenance. Thanks FJ Nut
A lil more info might be useful, honestly. Does it turn over slowly at all when hot (which is super common), or does it crank normally? If it spins fine, then the starter can probably be left alone unless you're feeling froggy. It's like two bolts and a wire to remove, not difficult. Take it apart, clean all of the dust and filth and nastiness out of it, regrease the bearings, stick it back together and carry on.
There's about four connections between the battery and the starter, checking that they're all clean and not corroded isn't going to hurt (assuming it's not cranking over fast enough) either. Battery - solenoid - starter, and make sure the grounds are decent as well, battery - motor.
If it spins but doesn't catch when hot, that's much more likely to be a fueling problem (dirty carbs, wrong jets, etc). There's a chance that there's something breaking down electrically also, but if it was so much so that it doesn't start hot, I'd think it wouldn't run for a crap when hot either, like if a coil was getting a little borderline or something when hot.
Edit: I'll mention that if you don't have a shop manual and intend on doing much work to the bike, they're priceless.
Does it push-start easily (without the choke) when it's hot? If it does, it sounds like the problem is in the starter or associated wiring.
Regards Pete.
Its cranks over normally when its a cold start, when its hot it struggles to crank over as if the battery is almost dead but as soon as you pull the choke out and then it cranks over as it does when its cold. I have a detailed owners manual which has been in valuable so far. I think i will pull the starter motor out and give it a good clean and grease regardless.
Yup. That's the starter needing a rebuild and/or not getting enough voltage. Assuming the battery is good, a r/r of the starter and a quick check of the connections will get you right back into shape.
I really don't think this is the carbs. At least see if there are any obvious fueling-related symptoms:
Check to see if the bike has good throttle response.
1. Will it 'leap' from idle with no stumbling or hanging?
2. Does it stumble or hang as you rev in neutral, AND under load throughout the RPM range?
3. Will it settle back to idle evenly without dipping below, or hanging above idle?
4. Do you plugs look OK? (see other threads for what they are supposed to look like).
If all of these are OK, then despite what David says about 'cleaning the carbs never hurt anything', I'd leave them alone. Or at least realize that you will likely have the same, hot starting issue when done.
Next Steps:
I would thoroughly clean and grease all ground connections -including where the coils mount to the frame, and the battery ground strap, and any other place where the bike is grounded (others, please fill these in...), use a grinder or heavy wire brush, and dialectic grease to ensure you have a solid ground. It's a 22 year old bike, it's not inconceivable, likely even, that corrosion is the culprit.
Test the bike's hot stating again. If it's still an issue, then I'd pull and service the starter.
That should get you starting well at all temps.
And THEN, once you've solved the presenting issue, you can go into the carbs if you're an over-achiever (glutton for punishment?)...
Good luck!
Dan
I had a bad ground cable from the battery to the engine block.
resistance/corrosion had built up in the wire but the crunchy part was underneath the plastic shielding where it couldnt be seen.
KOokaloo!
Plus 1
It can happen to either pos/neg wire.
It's real hard to tell, move the wire around a little.
Bob W
I give all those thing a good clean and let you know how i go with it. Thank you for all the awesome advice its a great help.
Col
not saying i can fix but theres an extra set of eyes here if you need them and i have tools etc and manual. give us a PM if you want help. I'm in newcastle too