Good morning everyone.
I have an '89 FJ1200 which won't start. The battery is fully charged and the starter runs fine, but appears to be getting no power. I can hear the fuel pump at the first detent and I can also hear the relay switch (under the seat), clicking as I push the starter button. Also, the instrument panel lights turn off - as they should - when I hit the starter button. :dash1:
I've tried the kill switch and still get nothing - though that's a continuing possibility until I remove it from the circuit. Meanwhile I'm thinking the kickstand switch may be an issue, but have never used it as the bike is attached to a sidecar. Perhaps I'll also take a look at the starter connections. Anywhere else I should investigate? :flag_of_truce:
Thanks for the WOTL.
Cameron
If I was you pull the outlet hose off the fuel pump and just make sure the pumps not bad.My 89 pump went out this year and it would make a noise but it was still bad.If it makes one click noise its probably bad mine was.Your problem sounds just like what I had.
BAMA
I don't think the pump is bad since I can hear it humming at the key's first detent position. It's the starter relay I hear click when I try the starter switch.
What's really annoying is the fact that I just spent $350+ to fix the front end and then it wouldn't start (even though the engine turned over) until I replaced the choke cable. Now this... :dash2:
Cameron
Okay, I'm confused. Is the started turning the engine over or not? You say the starter runs fine but appears to be getting no power. Does that mean the starter is not turning the engine?
If so, then it sounds like an interlock problem. There is also a clutch switch. I believe you short the terminals to remove the switch from the circuit, but an ohm test would confirm that.
DavidR.
You say the starter runs fine but is not getting any power? Does this mean that the engine is turning over, but just not starting? Or is the starter not even turning the engine?
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on November 23, 2010, 10:16:35 AM
Okay, I'm confused. Is the started turning the engine over or not? You say the starter runs fine but appears to be getting no power. Does that mean the starter is not turning the engine?
If so, then it sounds like an interlock problem. There is also a clutch switch. I believe you short the terminals to remove the switch from the circuit, but an ohm test would confirm that.
DavidR.
Beat me by a few seconds I guess. :yes: At lease I wasn't the only one confused.
The description also conflicts with the subject of the post which says "turns over but won't start."
Which is it? Way different diagnoses depending on what's really wrong.
DavidR.
Must be my Alzheimer's kicking in...
Last week I couldn't get the thing started as I had a previous issue with the choke cable where the starter ran and turned over the engine, but the engine wouldn't kick. I confused you all by saying it turns over. It doesn't. The starter button clicks the relay switch (under the seat) but the starter does not run and thus the engine can't start. Thus, I believe it to be something else in the electrical circuit and was too lazy to wait to get home to look it up in the schematic. Just looking for ideas or previous issues of a similar nature.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide this 48 year old "old man".
Cameron
Quote from: Cameron123 on November 23, 2010, 02:51:10 PM
Must be my Alzheimer's kicking in...
Last week I couldn't get the thing started as I had a previous issue with the choke cable where the starter ran and turned over the engine, but the engine wouldn't kick. I confused you all by saying it turns over. It doesn't. The starter button clicks the relay switch (under the seat) but the starter does not run and thus the engine can't start. Thus, I believe it to be something else in the electrical circuit and was too lazy to wait to get home to look it up in the schematic. Just looking for ideas or previous issues of a similar nature.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide this 48 year old "old man".
Cameron
Cameron,
A problem I had with the same symptoms was a bad earth between the battery negative and the frame. This allowed enough current to work the lights, horn etc but not the starter motor. This can quickly be checked by shorting the negative terminal against the frame and hitting the starter button.
Another problem I had on my older FJ was a fault somewhere in the system. I ended up wiring the starter switch straight to the relay. Unfortunately on one occasion I hit the starter button in gear and launched the bike into a ditch!
Stuart (Glasgow, Scotland)
Sounds like a grounding issue to me too.
Is it possible to push start these big beasts
i would not rule out catastrophic battery failure also..... i have had batteries that would run the lights but fail under starting load.
batteries can crap out anytime and anywhere
KOokaloo!
Quote from: Scooterbob on November 23, 2010, 03:25:00 PM
Is it possible to push start these big beasts
Yep, but its not for the faint hearted, especially when cold!
Harvy
Quote from: Harvy on November 23, 2010, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: Scooterbob on November 23, 2010, 03:25:00 PM
Is it possible to push start these big beasts
Yep, but its not for the faint hearted, especially when cold!
Harvy
Cold? What's that? I don't have much of that here in Houston Texas. :rofl:
It wouldn't hurt to put a wrench on the crank,
just to make sure its not locked up.
Quote from: Scooterbob on November 23, 2010, 05:18:05 PM
Quote from: Harvy on November 23, 2010, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: Scooterbob on November 23, 2010, 03:25:00 PM
Is it possible to push start these big beasts
Yep, but its not for the faint hearted, especially when cold!
Harvy
Cold? What's that? I don't have much of that here in Houston Texas. :rofl:
Not even funny Scooterbob, minus 2C here tomorrow morning - and it's only November. The FJs are tucked up in the garage, but I commute all year on my little Honda 250. Oh well only 4 months of this to go.
Stuart
Got to about 82F here today. I ride every day, year round. :blum1:
Quote from: Scooterbob on November 23, 2010, 06:19:39 PM
Got to about 82F here today. I ride every day, year round. :blum1:
we're making ice
What Frank said.
Before you go any farther, put a set of jumper cables on the battery or attach a charger to see if the starter will turn over.
Like Frank, I've had batteries fail where the lights would still work, but the starter wouldn't engage. I've also had failures where absolutely nothing would work.
Even if the battery is fairly new, check it anyway.
DavidR.
Quote from: racerman_27410 on November 23, 2010, 04:23:10 PM
i would not rule out catastrophic battery failure also..... i have had batteries that would run the lights but fail under starting load.
batteries can crap out anytime and anywhere
KOokaloo!
1st thing I thought of, as well..... try jumping it from a car, or other bike yet?
Quote from: Scooterbob on November 23, 2010, 06:19:39 PM
Got to about 82F here today. I ride every day, year round. :blum1:
You suck.. It's 21 here now (-6c) and getting colder.. I think the high today was 29 (-1.5c)..
I have the feeling this is a small taste of what our winter is going to be.
Tucson's been having a cold spell.... got down to 39F last night, wouldn't go over 62. Supposed to hit 42 for a low tonight..... too damn cold! :music:
A week ago, when I initially tried to start it (after getting the green light on the Battery Tender) the starter spun great, turning the engine over, but without starting. After a while, I decided not to kill the battery and hooked it up to the car and continued to try to start it, but to no avail. Once I realized the issue was with the choke cable, I manually moved the choke and the bike started right up off the bike battery only. When I replaced the cable, and got the green light on the Battery Tender again, THAT's when the starter wouldn't. I don't think the issue is with the battery.
I'm basically in agreement with others that there's likely a bad ground and hope to have a chance to check it out during the weekend. I'll let you know the results. Thanks for the ideas, as it helps to keep my mind in gear.
Happy Turkey Day everyone!
Cameron
Please tell us the car was not running, tooooooo many amps. (Bad things can happen)
Pull the starter and bench check it. (real easy to do)
Pull left cover off and put a socket on the bolt and try to spin motor.
Batteries can fail in alot of different ways so plus 1 on checking that.
Hope this helps
Bob
If you are worried about the choke cable, you can go to your local parts store and get a HELP brand cable thats will work. Thats whats on our racecars and works great.
Sit down with a voltage tester and start checking! Bad ground, bad connection on the hot side between the battery/solenoid/starter, etc. Really isn't a hard circuit to troubleshoot if the solenoid is clicking. If the solenoid isn't letting power through, double check the various killswitches (sidestand, handlebars, etc).
May sound silly, but it isn't in gear with the side stand down is it? :pardon:
james
The bike was definitely NOT in gear and I don't even know if there's a kickstand on the bike, but I'll take a look. Always want to try the easy stuff first.
Thanks.
Cameron
Took the switch out of the equation by going directly from the battery to the starter relay and nothing happened. Thus, I thought it was a bad relay and went to remove it from the bike. I didn't understand at first, how the relay worked since when I removed the wires, the bolts actually moved back and forth within the relay. But just toying with it, I got a basic knowledge of how it operated. With the sidecar attached, it appears much of the service manual wiring diagram is of no use, so it was a matter of hunt-and-peck to locate the problem.
Turns out the connections on the starter relay were badly corroded. Some emery cloth did a nice job and added a thin layer of grease to prevent future corrosion. Hooked up the wires and the starter turned over immediately. Problem solved. Now I can take the Christmas plants sold as fund raisers, to work rather than risking their cold-weather death on the two-wheeled, early morning ride.
Thanks for all your help. :good:
:good: :yahoo: :shout: :dance2: :bye: :hi:
Simple ol green growth strikes again. Congrats on not changing the starter, battery, switch and alternator before finding that resistance. Good job!
Doug
First ride on the fixed bike was a cold one. This morning's commute was in the upper teens with windchills listed as low single digits. Having heated gear and lots of layers really helped. I was worried more about the bike and sidecar than myself, given the reduced temperatures. Needed the sidecar to deliver the holiday flowers and cookie dough that I didn't have space for on the two-wheeler.
The speedo went on the fritz, but again, it's not original equipment and uses a small O-ring style belt to run it. Above 35 mph, the belt starts to slip...most likely because the grease in the pulley remains too thick at these temps. Once I get back down to a stop, the speedo works again. That's just like my PC800. Guess it's just something common in the colder riding weather.
Cameron
'89 FJ1200 with SideBike Comanche sidecar
'97 Honda PC800 "Chariot of Fire" - currently OOS for radiator and oil leaks
'02 Suzuki GS500 "Just for Fun"