Like alot of you guys, it didn't take me long to get interested in this mod.
The wheel I bought was listed as a 1990 FZR1000 rear wheel.
But I wonder if it is exactly what it's claimed to be, because the machined edge appears different when compared to others that have this mod.
I didn't notice this until I stripped the black paint off and cleaned it up a little.
My next step is to pull my stock wheel off the bike and take some measurements.
I hope I will be able to use this wheel and tire, as they look to be in good shape.
If any of you guys see something that stands out to you that might suggest I have something different than an EXUP FZR1000 rear wheel, please let me know.
If it means anything, my spare FJ rotor fits this wheel.
I have another brake caliper mount to modifiy, as well as the cushdrive that came with this wheel, so I can have all the mods completed while still keeping my bike operational.
For now, here are the pictures I have up to this point.
Leon
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4187.jpg~original)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4190.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4195.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4197.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4198.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4201.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4203.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4207.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4210.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4211.jpg)
looks fine to me :good:
Kookaloo!
It looks like mine (before I had mine powder coated that is.)
OK, thanks guys!
I'd like some further information, and I plan on taking it slow and one piece at a time to ensure I Don't miss anything.
I'd like to start with the brake caliper mount.
Alan, you mentioned that 10-11 mm needs to be removed on the swing arm side of the mount.
Looking at the picture below, the 3cm mark is on the swing arm side of the mount, and that would make the 2cm mark roughly the amount of material that would need to be removed, correct?
That cuts pretty deep into the casting and I just wanted it verified that it is indeed the way it needs to be modified.
Can you provide a picture of your modified mount to illustrate to me how it looks after the machine work was done?
Leon
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4222-1.jpg~original)
Leon,
In order to know exactly how much material to remove from the caliper bracket, you really need to take an accurate measurement of the inside of your swingarm(this will involve removing your current wheel/spacers/caliper bracket/etc)
Write this measurement down.
Then, take your axle, and stack all the parts on it, starting with the left outer spacer, the cushdrive, the spacer collar, the FZR wheel, the right outer spacer, then the caliper bracket.
Push it all down on the axle nice and tight, then make a mark on the axle where the caliper bracket ends.
Take everything off the axle, and measure to the mark you just made.
Subtract the 2 measurements......Write this down...This is how much material will have to be removed from various parts to get the new wheel into your swingarm.....
Now note that the procedure requires 7mm on the cushdrive side.....So subtract this from your (material to be removed) measurement......this is now how much needs to be removed from the caliper bracket.
For example: I measured the inside of the swingarm at 252mm, and the stack of all my parts at 269mm......A difference of 17mm.
Keeping in mind that 7mm comes off of the cushdrive side, leaves 10mm to be machined off of the caliper bracket.
This is where you really need to take accurate measurements, because your swingarm may be slightly different than someone else's, due to manufacturing differences, steel swingarm/VS aluminum swingarm, and brand of bearings being used, etc.......
If you are using new bearings, be sure to install them before taking your measurements.
Also, be sure to use "sealed" bearings.
The FJ wheel has an O-ring between it, and the cushdrive to keep water, and dirt out of the bearings. The FZR wheel does not have this O-ring, so you MUST use sealed bearings
Here is what my caliper bracket, cushdrive, and collar looked like after machining.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/FJ1200%20Wheel%20Project/CIMG4313.jpg)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/FJ1200%20Wheel%20Project/CIMG4309.jpg)
During my 1st attempt to install everything in the swingarm, I realized that I would have to pry apart the swingarm legs slightly to get everything to go in.........This would have put outward stress on the swingarm, and it's 20 year old welds and such....So I went back to the machine shop to have an additional 1mm removed from the caliper bracket. So it had a total of 11mm taken off.
Everything slips right in perfectly now.
I know you had mentioned you planned to work out all the machine-work, then swap everything over all at once, but you will most likely have to take a day, and remove your old stuff, take all your measurements, put all your old stuff back on the bike so you can ride while getting your parts machined.
You could take a chance, and use my measurements, but there's a good probability that it wouldn't fit together exactly right.
This will at least give you an idea where to start. :drinks:
Alan. once again you come through with flying colors! :i_am_so_happy:
Do you recommend a certain set of wheel bearings, by name, and where to get them?
I see a couple sellers on ebay have them, just wondering.
More pictures to follow....
Quote from: 1tinindian on November 03, 2010, 09:10:00 AM
Do you recommend a certain set of wheel bearings, by name, and where to get them?
I see a couple sellers on ebay have them, just wondering.
I use CBR Bearing. Good folks. Call them up and tell them what you have and they send you a kit with all the bearings and seals.
www.cbrbearing.com (http://www.cbrbearing.com)
I used "ALL Balls" bearing and seal kits for the front, and rear.
Rear kit is about $31
https://www.allballsracing.com/index.php/ (https://www.allballsracing.com/index.php/)
or.....if you "accidentally" type in allballs.com, you'll end up somewhere else you may or may not want to be.
:drinks:
I just had to get an idea as to how well the larger wheel was actually going to look on my bike, I did a quick test fit.
Then I took measurements and as it was, it measured 252mm wide within the swing arm.
Exactly the same as Alans, so I feel I'm started off in the right direction.
My next step is to get the correct FJ wheel bearings put into the FZR wheel and then get the exact measurements needed to have the cushdrive and brake mount machined.
My plan is to document this project to the very end, all in the same thread to make it easy to follow along for others interested in this particular mod.
My appreciation goes out to Alan for his guidance through this project!
Leon
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4229-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4233.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4238.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4242.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4239.jpg)
don't forget to make some new dogbones for the ride height . you will find the rear sits lower with the new wheel. most just set the height for the rear wheel just barely off the ground when the bike is on the center stand. you can make some your self out of strap steel or buy the adj bones off of ebay.
I now have the old bearings out and the hub sandblasted.
New bearings are ordered and on their way.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4263.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4262.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4259.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4258.jpg)
Now, another question for Alan, or anyone else that may know, does the inner axle spacer need anything removed from it, or does it stay its OE 140 mm?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4256.jpg)
Another question about the 7mm mentioned eariler that needs removed from the left side.
Is it a total 7mm that gets milled off?
The fjmod site is not clear on this, as they say 5mm off the lugs, and 2.5mm off the overall diameter.
Which is it?
Leon
The bearing spacer does NOT get cut, it IS inside the wheel, between the bearings.... unless, of course, you're getting the wheel sectioned.
Yes......What Rich said.
Leave that spacer as is.....You are not changing any dimensions inside the wheel.
As for machining of the cushdrive hub.......I used the 5mm off of the lugs. This was enough as they dont go far enough into the wheel to actually touch the wheel.....
However the 2.5mm off of the outside diameter wasn't enough....I am not sure if the powder coating inside my wheel here was extra thick, or ?
It wouldn't fit inside the wheel, so I took it back to the machine shop, and had him reduce the diameter all the way to the little step.....This worked perfectly.
The 7mm comes off of the big end of the collar spacer that goes in between the cushdrive bearing, and the left side wheel bearing......This is what allows the cushdrive hub to sit 7mm deeper inside the wheel.
You might want to hold off on putting your new wheel bearings in until you've removed the material inside the cushdrive side(the vanes) of the wheel, so you can blow the shavings/dust out of the wheel.......or cover with duct tape as I did.
There is also some extra machining inside the cushdrive hub(if you look at the picture of mine) that needs to be done, so that it doesn't contact the wheel when installed.
Quote from: Firehawk068 on November 09, 2010, 12:48:01 AMThe 7mm comes off of the big end of the collar spacer that goes in between the cushdrive bearing, and the left side wheel bearing......This is what allows the cushdrive hub to sit 7mm deeper inside the wheel.
OK, I think I'm getting a more clear picture of things now.
Is this collar spacer a seperate piece, or is it a part of the cushdrive bearing?
The reason I ask, is because when I took the old bearing out, that spacer came out with the bearing and seemed attached.
Does it need to be cut off, or is that the difference between the FJ and the FZR collar space?
Here is the parts breakdown for my FJ.
Which one is the collar spacer?
Is it #14?
And is it press into the bearing?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/REAR_WHEEL.jpg)
Leon
The collar is a separate piece......It slides into the cushdrive bearing.
Yours might be tight in there. You just need to press it out, or knock it out with a drift or similar...
The large end of it butts up against the left wheel bearing. This is the end that needs 7mm machined off it. (it should be machined perfectly flat on the end, as when you torque everything together, it fits tight against the wheel bearing)
Ok, I got the collar out of the wheel bearing, (tapped it out with a socket).
I plan on using the one that came out of the FZR wheel, as the measurements seem to match the specs for the FJ parts.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4267.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4266.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_4265.jpg)
FZR, and FJ use the same collar spacer, so machine that one :good:
I know it's been a long time in getting this completed, and not being sure of what I needed to do, I put it off last winter, but once riding season started, I hated the thought of having the bike down for any length of time.
Now that the rallys are done for the summer and the weather has turn chilly once again, it was the perfect time to get this thing finished up.
I had the cush drive hub and spacer machined, but still had issues with the final fit, so I continued to remove metal, a little at a time, until I got the spacers to fit correctly from one side of the swing arm to the other side.
Once I got the wheel fit within the swing arm, I installed my custom brake arm, Galfer rear rotor, and made shorter dog bones.
Yes Pat, I did a little polishing while I was in there, too.
The stock dog bones measure 125mm, center to center on the holes.
By dropping the 17" wheel (180/55 tire) onto a 1/2 board, the new, shorter dogbones needed to be 115mm, center to center.
I rode the bike before and after installing the shorter bones, and I must say, the shorter ones do add to the whole 17" rear swap
I can see where you guys at the rally were making it look so easy in taking the curves, as I now realize my stock setup was at its limits (or maybe it was just me :unknown:).
Anyway, here are the pictures up to this point that should put a finish on this mod, for me.
Leon
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6016.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6019.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6021.jpg)
Distance of the ground with the stock dog bones.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6025.jpg)
Distance after shorter dog bones installed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6035.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6033.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6036.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6041.jpg)
Looks like I need to mod the side stand now!
Thanks for all the help from everyone that has helped me through this swap, I appreciate it!
Leon
Wow Leon,
That came out beautiful. Love the exhaust all nice and golden as well as that brake rotor. And the shine is blinding. :good2: Were you able to just modify the stock brake arm or was it built from scratch? Regardless, it came out very nice.
What would you take for a set of those dog bones. I have no facilities to make a set here.
Good on ya,
CraigO
What material did you make your dog bones from? I hope you stayed away from mild steel (HR, HRPO) or 304 SST. Soft as warm crap. They will work for a while but will stretch till they fail. CRS (1018) should be OK as long as you protect them from corrosion. At my work we have been dong R&D with a material called Domex. Crap that stuff is strong. HRPO and 304 SST has a tensile strength near 30ksi, Domex is 100ksi (amazing what alloying steel with Titanium will do). If we start using it I will try to offer dog bone sets for cost to club members. Maybe I should sell them to Randy and work out a wholesale deal with other parts of his I might want (Emulators...), I love my fork brace.
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 28, 2011, 07:23:52 PM
What material did you make your dog bones from? I hope you stayed away from mild steel (HR, HRPO) or 304 SST. Soft as warm crap. They will work for a while but will stretch till they fail. CRS (1018) should be OK as long as you protect them from corrosion. At my work we have been dong R&D with a material called Domex. Crap that stuff is strong. HRPO and 304 SST has a tensile strength near 30ksi, Domex is 100ksi (amazing what alloying steel with Titanium will do). If we start using it I will try to offer dog bone sets for cost to club members. Maybe I should sell them to Randy and work out a wholesale deal with other parts of his I might want (Emulators...), I love my fork brace.
1/4" x 1" steel from Menards.
As far as the technical description goes... I have no idea.
Leon
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 28, 2011, 07:23:52 PM
What material did you make your dog bones from? I hope you stayed away from mild steel (HR, HRPO) or 304 SST. Soft as warm crap. They will work for a while but will stretch till they fail. CRS (1018) should be OK as long as you protect them from corrosion. At my work we have been dong R&D with a material called Domex. Crap that stuff is strong. HRPO and 304 SST has a tensile strength near 30ksi, Domex is 100ksi (amazing what alloying steel with Titanium will do). If we start using it I will try to offer dog bone sets for cost to club members. Maybe I should sell them to Randy and work out a wholesale deal with other parts of his I might want (Emulators...), I love my fork brace.
This is why I don't want to mess around making my own dogbones. I have no idea what is proper material nor do I have access to a drill press.
Oh, and I meant to ask, but never got around to it, how does everyone love their new fork braces? A lot more stable around the corners, eh???
CraigO
Quote from: craigo on October 28, 2011, 04:52:46 PM
Wow Leon,
That came out beautiful. Love the exhaust all nice and golden as well as that brake rotor. And the shine is blinding. :good2: Were you able to just modify the stock brake arm or was it built from scratch? Regardless, it came out very nice.
What would you take for a set of those dog bones. I have no facilities to make a set here.
Good on ya,
CraigO
I can not take credit for the custom brake arm.
I found out about it from Alan (Firehawk 068) when he did his 17" FZR wheel swap.
Read his post here : http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2828.0. (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2828.0.)
This topic has the link to the vendor for the brake arms.
http://www.cycleoneoff.com/v-maxpartspage1.html (http://www.cycleoneoff.com/v-maxpartspage1.html)
Not really sure about the dog bones.
I felt I followed the advice I had picked up from this site as to what the people here were making the dog bones out of.
If I have misunderstood, I'm all ears to find out what material I need to get to make the proper dog bones.
By the way, I didn't use a drill press to make mine.
I cut them to length using a hack saw, drilled the first one (both holes), then used vise grips to hold the second piece and then drilled through that one.
Holes match perfectly. Then I rounded the ends with a grinder and painted them.
Nothing complicated about them.
Leon
I made some dog bones exactly the way you did Leon, in 60.000 miles they have not caused me any trouble so I sure yours will be fine as well.
It's just a suggestion but you might like to get one of these to go with the polished wheel, it could really add the finishing touch.
http://www.bikefarmmv.de/EN/chain-guard/zeige_artikel.php?fid=200935 (http://www.bikefarmmv.de/EN/chain-guard/zeige_artikel.php?fid=200935)
Quote from: Grey runner on October 29, 2011, 04:53:02 AM
I made some dog bones exactly the way you did Leon, in 60.000 miles they have not caused me any trouble so I sure yours will be fine as well.
It's just a suggestion but you might like to get one of these to go with the polished wheel, it could really add the finishing touch.
http://www.bikefarmmv.de/EN/chain-guard/zeige_artikel.php?fid=200935 (http://www.bikefarmmv.de/EN/chain-guard/zeige_artikel.php?fid=200935)
Thanks, that's good to know that the dog bones have lasted you that many miles!
And about that chain guard, you are a man after my own heart, I love the looks of that.
I would be interested in it, but the difference in currancy has me wondering about the cost.
Great idea though!
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 28, 2011, 08:19:05 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 28, 2011, 07:23:52 PM
What material did you make your dog bones from? I hope you stayed away from mild steel (HR, HRPO) or 304 SST. Soft as warm crap. They will work for a while but will stretch till they fail. CRS (1018) should be OK as long as you protect them from corrosion. At my work we have been dong R&D with a material called Domex. Crap that stuff is strong. HRPO and 304 SST has a tensile strength near 30ksi, Domex is 100ksi (amazing what alloying steel with Titanium will do). If we start using it I will try to offer dog bone sets for cost to club members. Maybe I should sell them to Randy and work out a wholesale deal with other parts of his I might want (Emulators...), I love my fork brace.
1/4" x 1" steel from Menards.
As far as the technical description goes... I have no idea.
Leon
This is not definitive but worth a read.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2792.msg22472#msg22472 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2792.msg22472#msg22472)
I would consider the material from Menard's to be a mild steel Hot Rolled (HR) or HR Pickled and Oiled (HRPO) unless it was marked as CRS Cold Rolled Steel. Get a thinner and wider piece of steel and cut a notch in it that just fits over the dog bones the long way with no slop. When you have the rear wheel off slip the check tool over both links. If they are stretching, the check tool will not fit over the links. Time to make stronger ones. If the tool slips over each one then they have not stretched. Check each time you have wheel off. Cheep insurance and peace of mind.
I really appreciate the in depth detail being put into the metal to be used as dog bone replacements.
With ALL the discussion being done in the past here on the forums, there must be several riders here that have made their dog bones out of the same type of steel I used, yet we only have Randys off road hop to turn the thoughts to a better quality metal?
Although building a mod with better material is a great idea, ( and one I totally agree with), it would be interesting to here from a wide variety of riders and their experiences with their home-made bones and the material they used, how longs it's been in use, and any trouble that may have been experienced.
With that being said, and it is proven to be bad in any way to use mild steel, might I suggest that the forums be "cleaned up" on this topic, and the proper material listed. It would save alot of time and people will not have wasted theirs in making "inferior" dog bones.
I say this because I spend a large amount of time on this forum reading older posts, and the mod section is one of my favorites, (along with the search feature), and nearly everywhere I look it seems, the topic of dog bones is one of something easy and cheap to do with minimal fuss.
Now, I'm here to report on my progress, and it seams that I have not done it right, due to the type of material I used.
Is there a chronic problem here, or are we just over thinking things?
Has there been anyone else have a home-made dog bone failure other than Randy?
Considering his off road jump is well outside the norm for FJ use, are we all safe using our mild steel bones?
These are just questions to clear up any misunderstanding on my part, as well as maybe serve well for others in the future, to benefit from.
Thank you very much for the assistance.
Leon
Dunno Leon. Does anyone know what type of steel Yamaha uses for the bones? We could always take a oem dogbone and send it in for some destructive testing.
The next time you have your mild steel bones off to lube your linkage, measure the links, take a look at the holes, are they elongated? No? I wouldn't worry.
I think it is absolutely critical the the holes line up on the links, so each link carries a equal share of the tension.
I made 12cm C-to-C dogbones out of 5mm x 25mm mild steel in Sept 2000.
In Jan '09 (8 3/4 yrs) 49,000kms (33,000 miles) later I took them off because I changed the shock and needed different length dogbones. The holes were still round (by eye) and the mild steel strap had not stretched. I made the new dogbones out of the same material.
YMMV
Arnie
This is good conversation, makes me think two things. One, how general is the "Mild steel" category, CRS (bar stock), HR, HRPO (also bar stock) that we buy from stores like Menards? How strong do the "Dog-Bones" need to be? Looking at the parts diagrams and from the design of the link they must be in tension (as apposed to compression). So the tensile strength of the metal is key to having strong enough bones. Corrosion protection is a plus as this is a terrible place to be metal part. I did some surfing to better understand the difference of some of the steels mentioned. HRPO, the stuff my work uses millions of pounds each year has a tensile strength between 44Ksi and 52Ksi, CRS is about 63.8Ksi and the 318 SST mentioned in another thread is 70 to 75Ksi. The Domex we might use in the near future is 110Ksi. The difference between HR and CRS is not that great. It may be suitable for our FJ's. I would caution this, if you do not know what steel you have then check them time to time for stretching or as Pat pointed out "hole elongation" (from round to oval). Kookaloo safe everyone.
FJmonkey (what the hell is your real name?)
I agree, this has been a very good learning topic for me.
I did just talk to a shop owner tonight that can make me some dog bones, but the best SS he has is 304.
From what you said ealier, that's not really up to the task either?
Arnie and Pat, good feedback, thanks for you input!
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 29, 2011, 09:43:03 PM
FJmonkey (what the hell is your real name?)
I agree, this has been a very good learning topic for me.
I did just talk to a shop owner tonight that can make me some dog bones, but the best SS he has is 304.
From what you said ealier, that's not really up to the task either?
Arnie and Pat, good feedback, thanks for you input!
Leon
Hey Leon, my name is Mark. As I read more on what steels others have used for their bones I am thinking that HRPO and 304 SST sheet may have enough tensile strength. As these steels are softer than others and lacking any testing data I can only recommend inspecting custom bones as often as one changes the rear tire. As time goes on with any lack of change in the bones then you can feel more confident in the material of choice. I hope I have not caused any panic on this. My experience with mild steel like HRPO I know is quite soft and hate the thought of anyone (club member or not) having a bad moment on two wheels. Ounce of caution..... 304 has excellent corrosion resistance, avoid the bunny hop whenever possible and ride safe.
Metallurgy aside, in looking at the actual design, you can draw some conclusions.
Assuming that the links would fail under tension, the area it would likely fail would be area with the least amount of material that would be available to resist the tension. Makes sense, right? See how the oem dogbones are designed? See the uniform material thickness around the bolt holes?
If you drew a straight line from the center of the holes to the outside edge, see how thick the material is at these two points on the oem links? i.e. The distance from the edge of the hole to the outside edge of the link.
Leon, now look at the ones you fabricated. See the thinner sections? If they fail, that's where your new links will fail.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/1tinindian/Motorcycles/100_6033.jpg~original)
Thanks Mark.
No panic, just concern that I'm creating a problem for myself when it could be just as easily eliminated by doing it right the first time.
I like the idea of the corrosion resistance of the 304SS, so I think I'm going to go ahead and have those made.
I'll assume that they can still be made out of 1/4"x 1" material, correct?
It's been good getting to know you Mark, and I hope we have added some valuable information to the forum on this subject.
After all, safety is every ones #1 concern where motorcycles are concerned.
Leon
All very good points Pat.
I don't mind being so heavily scutinized on this subject as long as some others may benefit from it.
I only wish this topic had been covered in this great of detail (including pictures), prior to me needing to make these parts.
If you don't mind, I'd like to quote you from a thread entitled "Dogbones - raising rear end," from 2009, where you said,
" Go ahead and do the bones, it's easy, you can get the steel stock at Lowe's/Home Depot. Cut the strap iron to length and drill the holes. Easy peesey. I did have to special order a metric drill bit for the holes (sorry, I can't remember the size) Hint: when you drill the holes, clamp both pieces together in a vise and drill both pieces at the same time. That way your holes will line up dead nuts with both pieces. *A important point*
Don't over think the mod, it's sooo easy."
So you can see where I might have been just a little confused over this, after all, I didn't over think it.
I just cut the metal to length and drilled two holes in it.
Cheers,
Leon
Aftermarket dogbones are frequently aluminum. Yes, in a massive wreck (or a big Evel Knievel jumps), they'll bend. So? I understand that occasionally it'll be the difference between riding home and trailering home, but after that much force going through things, I would greatly prefer trailering it home and doing a good inspection on it, rather than one done while you're a little shaken up on the roadside thinking "well, it looks good enough....".
My FJ wears Soupy links, which are really a good compromise imo, and the adjustability is lovely. My ZX9 wears aluminum dogbones (6064, I think) and haven't shown any sign of even beginning to bend. At the track, I frequently see guys with vastly extended swingarms (better leverage against the linkages with a longer lever, remember) and aluminum dogbones, and have never seen a failure that could be directly attributed to the dogbones.
Don't worry so much. I do agree with clamping them together and drilling both at once, to ensure you get the length exactly the same. Aluminum works fine, but stainless would polish up nicely and be easy to keep clean. Steel would be fine if you paint or powder it to prevent rust.
(http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu159/rktmanfj/Picture032.jpg~original)
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 30, 2011, 09:41:06 AM
(http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu159/rktmanfj/Picture032.jpg~original)
This is precisely what Pat described as the failure mode. You can see that the holes were not centered on these links. The top link on the Left is off center as well. The thinner side stretched faster than the thicker side. Once the thin side broke free the end of the link rotated around like pealing of the top of a tin can. The thin side bent towards the center of the link, the thick side bent away from it. Good image to show how material thickness and shape is as important as material selection.
FYI, 6061-T6 Aluminum has a tensile strength near 42Ksi and 7075-T6 is between 74 and 78Ksi. If weight is really important then stick with the 7075-T6.
The holes were indeed centered when they were drilled... there is more deformity there than the pic really shows. They are off on every dimension, but they were subjected to pretty large force.
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 30, 2011, 10:57:02 AM
The holes were indeed centered when they were drilled...
Then the Left side must have stretched as well. Makes sense, same forces at both ends, both sides gave out some but once stretched enough, one side became the weakest and lost.
It was not exactly an even hit, so I would say you are right.
Nice of folks not to bring this up again, but I guess I will man up and do it. :sorry:
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2792.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2792.0)
Exactly why I think Evel himself would be proud!
I do wonder though: Had they been stock, would the impact have broken something else? Twisted the swingarm, for example? That failure is the only one that I've honestly ever heard of, ever, from anyone wadding a bike up, aftermarket, stock, or homemade dogbones. It's a rare enough thing that I guess I just don't worry it. I'm more concerned that a tire will decide to fall off its' bead or delaminate (both of which I've heard of happening more than a couple times).
I also wonder if changing the length altered the ratio of how the linkage works. It's a rising rate if memory serves, and yet all the aluminum dogbones that I know of are used in a lowering rather than raising application. Someone with more time than me want to work out the forces involved and see what happened?
(I'd do the math, but my computer has recently decided that it wants to be a ball gown, or a potato, or anything other than a computer, so I'm distracted and fighting it currently... sigh...)
Hi guys - just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth here..
I'm an engineer, spend all my days for the past 12 years running lathes and mills so that's where my experience comes from..
If you're making up dog bones at home, you can be smart about it and make a pretty damn decent job that will A: look pretty good and B: help it to not fail
For starters, things to remember regardless of your material choice, that sharp edges, ragged holes and as mentioned before, uneven hole spacing are all things that create stress points and fractures start from.
Have a damn good look to see where you can get away with leaving material on the dogbones - especially around the holes and ends. Don't be too skimpy - how much do these things weigh anyway? :good2:
Measure carefully - measure twice cut once
Make yourslf up a scriber - if you can't buy one, sharpen up the opposite end of a small dia drill into one, you can do it just with a hand held grinder if you don't have a bench grinder.
Scribe out the shape you want - ruler if it's straight lines or even trace around something round for curves etc
Get a ruler and after you've cut your dogbones to the shape, measure out with a ruler where you want the holes then use the scribe as a dot punch and give it a good whack to help you locate those holes. The drill will stick in the dot and go thru on centre every time no wandering. Also pre-drill with small drill first - don't whack through the big drill, it will go better with a pilot hole.
Chamfer every sharp edge including the drilled holes - less stress points = stronger.
Driling them together is another excellent idea.
You can drill before you cut them out if you want if it makes it easier to hold in a vice, no hard and fast rules about that...
The one bit of advice to remember above all else that has stood me in good stead is KISS!
KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID!
Don't overcomplicate - it doesn't need it.
I know a lot of you guys are competent engineers and are very capable of making things, there's some awesome bikes on here but sometimes there are a few tricks that can escape the first timers...
Cheers,
James
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 30, 2011, 12:25:41 AM
...I just cut the metal to length and drilled two holes in it.
No worries Leon, I would have used wider bar stock, so I had more material between the edge of the holes and the outside edge of the stock. Pat
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 30, 2011, 03:17:30 PM
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 30, 2011, 12:25:41 AM
...I just cut the metal to length and drilled two holes in it.
No worries Leon, I would have used wider bar stock, so I had more material between the edge of the holes and the outside edge of the stock. Pat
I have a drawing made up for a better pair of bones.
I'll either make them myself out of steel, or have the machine shop make some out of SS.
Either way, my riding for this year is pretty much over with, so I will have plenty of time to get them made by next spring.
Leon
Cool beans Leon.
By the way, where did that quote come from, "You will never find your kookaloo with a shitty clutch" ?
I love it. I want to use it at the beginning of my Slipping Clutch Section (in the Files)
I want to attribute it to the right person.... Was that you? Cheers! Pat
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 31, 2011, 12:51:44 AM
Cool beans Leon.
By the way, where did that quote come from, "You will never find your kookaloo with a shitty clutch" ?
I love it. I want to use it at the beginning of my Slipping Clutch Section (in the Files)
I want to attribute it to the right person.... Was that you? Cheers! Pat
Yes, that was my quote.
I discovered that after doing my clutch mod!
It's really nice now, to open the throttle, WFO, and have it not slip!
Leon