I spent all day Saturday taking care of my bike. I changed the oil, relaced the *slightly leaking* valve cover gasket, synchronized the carbs, and even re-covered the seat. I rode it to work today and it ran GREAT and very smooth. On the way home I noticed some oil smoke rising from the engine, but I assumed it was residual from where the conveniently placed oil filter dumps oil all over the exhaust collector. :ireful: BUT NO... Turns out my new $50 gasket is leaking - even through my 350 degree Celcius sealant. It started dumping oil out everywhere. I tried to carefully tighten the valve cover bolts, but then - you guessed it - I stripped one bolt. I put it all back together and now I'm too angry to make any major decisions (selling, parting out, trading). It just sucks when you do everything right, and it fails. Beautiful sunny days in the forcast, but I'll be driving the car.
Doggone it. :dash1:
I was just thinking... I remember in my car engine building days, I was told to throw away the front and rear rubber intake gaskets and just use a 1/4 thick bead of sealant only. I've done that a few times and never had any leaks. Is this an option worth trying on the old FJ? :scratch_one-s_head:
did you also replace the rubber seals that go onto the valve cover bolts ? they are notorious for hardening and leaking oil.
Kookaloo!
Frank
Is it stripped or twisted off?
Either way, I wouldn't even briefly consider parting out an FJ because of it. Just repair the thread or remove the broken bolt, and do as Frank suggested and replace the cover bolt rubbers (2GH-1111G-00-00 RUBBER, MOUNT 1).
Then replace the gasket WITHOUT sealant, using a torque wrench on the cover bolts. They have a pretty low torque spec... you are far from the first to break one off.
IMO, a full set of cover bolt rubbers and cover gasket should come as a package. If you need one, you're sure to need the other.
Cheer up, it could be LOT worse! :good:
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 11, 2010, 01:01:11 PM
Then replace the gasket WITHOUT sealant
^^^ This! ^^^
I use to put sealant on everything many years ago (1988) until a good mechanic (the best I've ever seen) asked me why I did that and of course I answered because I want a good seal. Then he pointed out that this is what a gasket is for and then he showed me how to clean a gasket surface perfectly clean with a razor blade. This was one of the best lessons I've learned over the years.
Take a moment to vent, parting the bike is the last thing that should be done.
I have to agree with the other guys no sealant, especially on a new gasket.
when I changed my gasket I changed the rubbers on the bolts also.
I thought the extra $20 might save me from doing it twice.
also, once the shoulder of the bolt bottoms out..going tighter will do nothing for your leak.
At the risk of getting flamed I will add, I did use a couple dabs of grease on the gasket to hold it in place while I put the cover on.
No leaks.................
Quote from: Travis398 on October 11, 2010, 05:33:02 PM
also, once the shoulder of the bolt bottoms out..going tighter will do nothing for your leak.
At the risk of getting flamed I will add, I did use a couple dabs of grease on the gasket to hold it in place while I put the cover on.
No leaks.................
Yep.......the bolts hold the cover on.....the grommets hold the oil in.
The gasket is a bugger if its been all scrunched up in its packaging for a while. I have used double-sided printers tape in the past just to hold it in place...... tired grease too but it wouldn't sit still.
Harvy
Quote from: Travis398 on October 11, 2010, 05:33:02 PM
Take a moment to vent, parting the bike is the last thing that should be done.
I have to agree with the other guys no sealant, especially on a new gasket.
when I changed my gasket I changed the rubbers on the bolts also.
I thought the extra $20 might save me from doing it twice.
also, once the shoulder of the bolt bottoms out..going tighter will do nothing for your leak.
At the risk of getting flamed I will add, I did use a couple dabs of grease on the gasket to hold it in place while I put the cover on.
No leaks...............
\]]..
Grease is a good thing you can use it on rubber and fiber/paper type gaskets.
Holds gasket in place and can help the seal if need be.
Lotsokids,
I did the same thing this past spring! I was just replacing a couple of the rubber grommets for the valve cover bolts as they were seeping oil. I broke off the shoulder bolt! "NO WAY!" I also had the setting on the torque wrench correct! WTF! now the whole valve cover has to come off and get the bolt out....ya I had to walk away for a good while....then I got another few bolts and a gasket(thx randy) and it was fairly easy getting the broken bolt out . SO! I try again....didn't I snap another bolt off in the same dam place again! NO WAY! yup. Unbelievably frustrating!.....to make a long story short, i did get it back together without leaks ...hahaha :biggrin: I can laugh about it now and i had a good summer riding and a good fall so far......so don't part out or sell that nice clean looking FJ! :good2: btw I like those colours...
+1 on just using the gasket without sealant...i put a tiny bead (like the others have mentioned) just to hold the gasket in place while placing the cover on. The manual recommended putting a bit around the 2 recesses (right side) of the gasket as well, so i have been doing that with no leaks (so far).
Cleanliness of both surfaces,imo, makes the biggest difference.
So just imagine having to do that twice :wacko2:
Good Times!!!!
I usually use a small amount of Gasgacinch to hold troublesome gaskets in place.
http://www.gasgacinch.com/gasgacinch_002.htm (http://www.gasgacinch.com/gasgacinch_002.htm)
In most cases I try to place the gaskets dry but the Gasgacinch works great when needed. I only use sealant when the FSM calls for it and then very sparingly.
Because they're shoulder bolts, they're actually pretty easy to pull from the cam cap. Pop the cover off, pull the cap, carefully back the broken bit out, reassemble. On the gasket you should just have a couple drops of sealant, just at the corners of the halfmoon things to hold them in place while you work. Replace the rubber bits on the cover screws, and you're done. Setbacks suck, but that's a relatively quick one to fix, so carry on!
Thanks, all. :empathy:
I took a breather, and all should be fine. But hey, I didn't wreck, or trash the transmission (which I have experience in), so it could always be worse. I just get frustrated with trying to save money by buying old crap that I have to CONSTANTLY keep working on, then miss time spent with my wife and 6 kids. I'd probably be better off just dumping about $10,000 into a bike that I don't have to tinker with. You can't put a price on time with family.
Good advice about the seals. I emailed a parts request today to the Yamaha shop. Another factor is that I live in Hungary where they DO NOT speak English. So you can imagine the challenge ordering parts.
At this point, I still do not know if I broke the bolt off or just stripped it. If I stripped the head, that creates another challenge. I'll know in a few days.
Anyone else HATE driving a car on nice sunny days? :negative:
Quote from: Lotsokids on October 12, 2010, 04:42:52 AM
Another factor is that I live in Hungary where they DO NOT speak English. So you can imagine the challenge ordering parts.
Scroll up.
I supplied the p/n for the cover bolt seals up there...
You can look up anything on the fische yourself here: http://tinyurl.com/a84pt (http://tinyurl.com/a84pt)
That should help with the language barrier.
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 12, 2010, 06:36:20 AM
Scroll up.
I supplied the p/n for the cover bolt seals up there...
You can look up anything on the fische yourself here: http://tinyurl.com/a84pt (http://tinyurl.com/a84pt)
That should help with the language barrier.
Randy T
Indy
Yes, I got it. Thanks. I was just speaking in general terms. Every time I go in there, I have to point at a part on a bike in the showroom or they bring up the drawings and I point at items on his screen. It's not easy. Especially on his end when he tries to tell me it will not come in for 4 days or something like that.
Quote from: Lotsokids on October 12, 2010, 07:29:16 AM
Every time I go in there, I have to point at a part on a bike in the showroom or they bring up the drawings and I point at items on his screen. It's not easy. Especially on his end when he tries to tell me it will not come in for 4 days or something like that.
4 days!! ? You're frustrated at having to wait 4 days ??? That would be considered instant service in most dealerships in Australia, and many in the US even for brand new bikes.
Your FJ is over 22 years old and the model run ended in 1993 - 17 years ago. Be glad that parts are available at all. Patience is your friend.
Cheers,
Arnie
Quote from: Arnie on October 12, 2010, 09:17:35 AM
4 days!! ? You're frustrated at having to wait 4 days ??? That would be considered instant service in most dealerships in Australia, and many in the US even for brand new bikes.
Your FJ is over 22 years old and the model run ended in 1993 - 17 years ago. Be glad that parts are available at all. Patience is your friend.
Cheers,
Arnie
No, I think you missed it. I'm not frustrated with the wait. I'm fine with waiting 4 days or even a week. I'm talking about the language barrier. The sales person does not know how to tell me when the part will come in. We usually find a calendar and figure it out. I've learned limited Hungarian words, so at least I can understand if he can even order it or not. That was a challenge in the beginning.
Think of it like this... if you walked up to a dealership's parts counter with your mouth taped shut, and the parts guy had his mouth taped shut, then try to order something. It's the same.
With respect to the Hungarians, I don't expect them to learn English because I'm in their country. Just like if you live in America, you shouldn't demand special provisions if you don't speak English. Ooooo let's open that can of worms. :shok:
Quote from: Lotsokids on October 12, 2010, 04:42:52 AM
Thanks, all. :empathy:
I took a breather, and all should be fine. But hey, I didn't wreck, or trash the transmission (which I have experience in), so it could always be worse. I just get frustrated with trying to save money by buying old crap that I have to CONSTANTLY keep working on, then miss time spent with my wife and 6 kids. I'd probably be better off just dumping about $10,000 into a bike that I don't have to tinker with. You can't put a price on time with family.
Good advice about the seals. I emailed a parts request today to the Yamaha shop. Another factor is that I live in Hungary where they DO NOT speak English. So you can imagine the challenge ordering parts.
At this point, I still do not know if I broke the bolt off or just stripped it. If I stripped the head, that creates another challenge. I'll know in a few days.
It was explained to me that (fiber) gaskets should be installed dry because once installed they will soak up oil and expand to fill the gaps between tightened surfaces. If a sealer is added, the gasket may not expand consistently if oil can't soak in.
Quote
Anyone else HATE driving a car on nice sunny days? :negative:
Nope! Not this car. And we had record high temps the past two days here in Indy
(http://born2trump.home.comcast.net/~born2trump/images/indy_show_bird_avatar_lg.jpg)
Quote from: indyblue on October 12, 2010, 12:38:56 PM
And we had record high temps the past two days here in Indy
Yes we have! :good:
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: indyblue on October 12, 2010, 12:38:56 PM
Nope! Not this car. And we had record high temps the past two days here in Indy
(http://born2trump.home.comcast.net/~born2trump/images/indy_show_bird_avatar_lg.jpg)
You suck!!!!!!!
I'm jealous!
Just a short story that in the end should serve as encouragement and you will hopefully feel less bad.
I collect and fix old bikes. I have a honda magna V45 that I am working on. The type of engine you have (an in-line 4) is Sooo much easier that the V twins or V4's on cruisers. You have to completely pull the tank, the carbs are a MoFo to get out, long story short I clean the carbs put them back in and find I have a coolant pipe leaking that was UNDER my carbs. Pull it all back out and fix leak, pressure test. Good. Start it and it leaks AGAIN!.....also an absolute MoFo to work on.
Once you pull that gas tank the cylinder heads are right there, even if you have to re-tap a thread. In the big picture, while you may be pissed, I would not sweat it. It happens to all of us.
Your parts procurement sitch is another story. What about using ebay and having them ship to Hungary? Find a friend that speaks both languages and bring him to the parts counter with you?
Quote from: Perez on October 13, 2010, 09:37:52 AM
Just a short story that in the end should serve as encouragement and you will hopefully feel less bad.
I collect and fix old bikes. I have a honda magna V45 that I am working on. The type of engine you have (an in-line 4) is Sooo much easier that the V twins or V4's on cruisers.
I hear ya on those V45's. I had an '82 V45 Sabre with the Hondaline full Faring for the last 15 yrs. Great bikes to ride and I really loved the look, but the parts and labor necessary to work on it was overwhelming. I got rid of it for the FJ and can't be happier to work on the inline 4.
More parts seem to be available for the FJ as well.
This one's not mine but exactly like it. On cold days you could install the lower farings and be toasty, mine had a Kerker 4-1 on it, plenty of torque to go around.
(http://www.crashmancomics.com/sabmag/rogues/roguebikes/rcuttlersabre.jpg)
I'll third the motion... the honda V-4's are a real bastard to get the carbs in and out. Worse, they plug the pilots really quickly if you let them sit. At least you can often change mix screw settings without taking the bike to bits.
I got my baby repaired again - the valve cover bolt was broken, but easily removed. I had the Yamaha shop order a couple new bolts, a new vavle cover gasket and a whole set of new rubber grommets that are fitted onto the bolts. I gave him a picture, description, part number and everything. He ordered washers instead of rubber grommets. I had to wait a couple weeks for the wrong parts. Bummer! He ordered the right parts, and in the mean time I just put a large amount of sealant around the valve cover bolts. I doesn't leak at all. With your advice, I installed the valve cover gasket dry. Works great! Thank you.
I got the bike repaired in time to join some bikers in a benefit ride for the victims of the "red sludge" incident near Devecser, Hungary (about 15 minutes south of where I live). I rode about 2 hours to the starting point in Budapest. Then we rode 120 miles to Devecser, the the ride home. I think I rode about 250 miles today. It was a very good time, but kind of cold.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/Lotsokids/Devecser%20Ride%202010/100_4837.jpg)
The stop lights here go: Green -> Yellow -> Red -> Yellow -> Green
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/Lotsokids/Devecser%20Ride%202010/100_4850.jpg)
Representing the FJ's! Yes, I had the only one there.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/Lotsokids/Devecser%20Ride%202010/100_4858.jpg)
And finally a [slightly cheesy] pic of my new Vance & Hines pipe...
I know it goes black into chrome, but it's better than rust.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/Lotsokids/Devecser%20Ride%202010/Myexhaust.jpg)
Way to go, I know the repair was a pain but simple for the most part and you can now ride your bike and still be happy with it. Trust me if you got rid if the FJ you would be sorry...
Eric M
Excellent! Sounds like a great ride. It was worth it, eh!
The more you ride it,the more you will thank yourself. :)
I liked reading this thread. I learned things and glad things worked out. I agree that sometimes you just need to back off for a while - take a breather.
I also found something recently regarding translating languages and thought I would share:
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#en (http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#en)|bg|
Yes, I use Google Translate quite often!