Hi all, sitting here with no front end on my FJ, ready to put in new steering stem bearings, but there's this little problem of how to get the old cups gone. The bottom cup on the head is the worst; no way to drive it out like the Clymer manual suggests. Upper cup on head has enough lip I maybe can get that one. Also the inner race on the bottom of the stem (destroyed the cage & seals, so only the inner race is left) seems like it has found a permanent home & doesn't want to leave.
I have searched, here & the british site, and all I can find is stuff like "I used a Dremel tool", or "weld a bar across the bottom cup, then drive it out using the bar". Welder can't get to the bike, so that's not an option.
What I am seeking basically, is details on cutting them out with a Dremel tool (actually pencil die grinder in my case, but should be the same). Seems to me if a cut-off disk is used then somewhere in there you'll be cutting into the head tubing. I've never found the small Dremel cylindrical stones to last long, though a cylinder would allow cutting into the corner without getting into frame material. Just seems it might take a lot of them.
So, if you please, what am I missing here? These are the last parts to come off the bike for now, and once the problem is solved I actually can start putting the whole mess back together.
Thanks,
Rob
I cant hep you with the lower bearing cup in the frame. You can cut the inner race off of the tripple with a small cutting disk, or several as the case may be and a dremil or similar tool. Just be careful when your going through the race. I have been able to deeply score the lower race almost going through and used a chisel to break the bearing at the score mark. Good luck...
Eric M
The theory goes is that you use a die grinder or dremel and cut ALMOST thru the race. Then you hit it with a cold chisel and it will crack and come off. This worked for me on the upper outer race and the inner races. Not so much on the lower outer race as you really can't get the chisel in there to hit it.
Hippie Cain made a custom lower outer race removal tool (CLORRT), which he humbly loaned to me. :good2: Took two seconds to get the race out with that tool. I had visions of putting the bike, sans front end, in the truck and taking it somewhere to get that damn race out.
There have been posts with links of other types of removal tools, none which seemed 100% effective.
So what exactly does the H-CLORRT look like? I used a Dremel, and ground the ever-lovin' sh*t out of it, nick the steering tube a touch, THEN managed to chisel/break it out. Not fun, and I KNEW what I was in for!
Is that the (not so) famous Hippie Cain Lower Race Removal Tool? Never heard of it.
I used a dremel type cut off wheel and cut the race on a diagonal in two places then used a small cold chisel to snap the race and have it drop out.
I got the inner race off the lower triple with brute force and swearing.
If there's a next time, I'll try and lay a bead of weld on the race (or have a friend whos a much better welder than me do it). Or just sell the bike and buy another.
Cheers,
Arnie
Quote from: Arnie on June 07, 2010, 09:57:51 AM
Is that the (not so) famous Hippie Cain Lower Race Removal Tool? Never heard of it.
I used a dremel type cut off wheel and cut the race on a diagonal in two places then used a small cold chisel to snap the race and have it drop out.
I got the inner race off the lower triple with brute force and swearing.
If there's a next time, I'll try and lay a bead of weld on the race (or have a friend whos a much better welder than me do it). Or just sell the bike and buy another.
Cheers,
Arnie
Arnie,
That's exactly how I did it and ditto on the welding if there is ever a next time. The Haynes manual shows a special tool (an internal bearing extractor?) :shout: - an expanding tube with a rod to drive the race out.
Stuart
Sorry, that stupid head in my message was an accident - I hate the things.
Stuart
Maybe being from maine I think simple. but for over 25 years now all I have ever used to remove old races was a old motor mount bolt from something, 16 plus inchs long grind the hex off and taper the theaded end
you could do the same thing with 3/8 or 1/2 rod. Then pound them out carefully walk it around the race.
Not very hard don't over think it.
there are times cutting the race is required but not often
Bob
I've always used the same method, Bob........ until I did the FJ. The shoulder in the head tube is wider than the race, can't get a punch on it..... :dash1:
I cut the race, same as Arnie and Stuart, then put several little 1/2 moon divots in the shoulder so I could punch it oput the next time.
Thanks for all the suggestions; that bottom cup with no way of getting a punch on it is not the brightest thing I've ever seen.
I'm thinking of grinding in a couple of places for punch clearance. If that doesn't work I'll fall back on the cut off wheel and cold chisel, making multiple cuts to try & knock out pieces and not distort the head tube.
The piece left on the stem will get the welder treatment. Unfortunately don't have the welder wired where I can get near the bike to work on the head cup.
If the weather's good I'll take the next run at it tomorrow evening.
Thanks all,
Rob
Rob,
I'm not sure welding the race on the stem is the way to go - doesn't that cause the race the shrink as the weld cools?
The best way I've found so far is to use a press. I press press the stem out of the lower triple clamp and then press it back through while pressing the new bearing on at the same time. NOTE! The stem gets pressed DOWNWARD - out the bottom of the lower triple!
I use an old race that I've ground out the ID slightly so it slides freely on the stem as a boss; that way I am sure not to press on the roller cage of the new bearing.
Good luck!
Chris
Quotedoesn't that cause the race the shrink as the weld cools?
It does. The race will usually drop right out. If not, then you have a surface to seat a punch on and tap it out. Works great.
Unless you don't have a welder. Then splitting them with a Dremel cut off wheel is the way to go.
Quote from: junkyardroad on June 07, 2010, 09:59:10 PM
Quotedoesn't that cause the race the shrink as the weld cools?
It does. The race will usually drop right out. If not, then you have a surface to seat a punch on and tap it out. Works great.
Unless you don't have a welder. Then splitting them with a Dremel cut off wheel is the way to go.
That's why I wouldn't do the weld technique on the race on the steering stem! Seems like it would make it even tighter!
I am going to have to get myself a welder one day though!
QuoteThat's why I wouldn't do the weld technique on the race on the steering stem! Seems like it would make it even tighter
You are right, I read that as "neck" not stem. I will force an extra beer down my throat as punishment. :drinks:
The right answer is to split the race by cutting a deep groove in it, then a sharp rap with a chisel. One cut should do it.
Is this the type of tool you're thinking of to extract the lower race?
http://www.harborfreight.com/blind-hole-bearing-puller-95987.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/blind-hole-bearing-puller-95987.html)
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_3438.jpg)
The H-CLORRTs (I have two) have been retired. This Park tool is much better at removing the lower race.
We have one at the shop and it works too well! I pull it up through the bottom bearing till the fingers "click" into the grove between the race and the frame, then I just knock the bearing out. It works on lots of bearing sizes too. Its only $30.00!
http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=51&item=RT%2D2# (http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=51&item=RT%2D2#)
ITEM # RT-2
Head Cup Remover- Oversized
Designed for the 1-1/4 inch and 1-1/2 inch headest standards, the RT-2 Head Cup Remover makes headset cup removal easy. The tool is pulled through the frame until the flared ends snap in behind the cup. A blow on the tool head removes the cup. Strong, heat treated alloy steel with a nickel finish.
Don't you just love this forum?
Thanks Jon. I'm gonna save this and put it in the service files.
Thanks Marsh.
Good idea, Pat. This always comes up.
And thank you again, Mr. Cain, for saving my bacon, lo those seven years ago! :drinks:
I might have missed it, but I couldn't feel any of the race that would provide and edge to pull or pound on. I had to weld the stem bearing inner race (that was cut from the stem) to the lower outer race, using it to drive the race out with a drift and hammer.
Simple solution if you have a welder.
Cut a flat piece of metal that will fit across the inside of the lower bearing race. Weld it to the race. Drive it straight out with any old punch long enough to reach it. forget all the dremelling!
MC
i know this is old, but i am trying to do mine right now. annnndddd.......
wtf omfg this shit is retarded!!!!!!!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_rX4-nVlemEE/TV1_3plwcyI/AAAAAAAABhk/FqDhigO0zq0/s640/IMG_0228.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_rX4-nVlemEE/TV1_3ChxI6I/AAAAAAAABhg/9glCeXkBteo/s640/IMG_0225.JPG)
i dont have welding at my disposal. and the bottom race does NOT have a lip. any tips or advise on this? I'm afraid of cutting into the stem itself.
You have my sympathies, the steering head bearings are a pain. When I did mine I was able to drive out the upper race. I used a Dremel mini-drill with a small grinding disc to cut two slots in the lower race (this took a lot of time & discs) Then split the race with a chisel.
Stuart
Quote from: mz_rider on February 18, 2011, 12:09:57 PM
You have my sympathies, the steering head bearings are a pain. When I did mine I was able to drive out the upper race. I used a Dremel mini-drill with a small grinding disc to cut two slots in the lower race (this took a lot of time & discs) Then split the race with a chisel.
Stuart
Thats precisely how I did it, too. A lot of time spent, but it's the easiest way if you aren't able to weld. While you're in there, drill and tap the stem for a grease zerk so you can periodically add some lube.