Hallo from Germany,
About a month ago at a wedding, my dad and another guest talked about motorcycling, re-igniting my wish to start cycling myself. I've always wanted to get a better technical understanding of the inner working of bikes, so fixing up my dad's
1989 3CV was the perfect opportunity to get a bike, and get working :D
The last time he rode it was 1997 - it's been sitting in a garage since then.
fj_in_garage.jpg
Here's a picture of how it looked when my dad was on vacation, when the bike was still - running about 30 years ago:
43_1-011.jpg
Last week I took off the tarp and cleaned out the garage, allowing me a first visual inspection:
sideview1.jpg
dash-full.jpg
engine-paint.jpg
tyre-degragation.jpg
Overall it seems like the fairing and dash are in pretty good shape, and most of the engine block paint is also still present. Obviously I gotta do all of the maintenance a bike needs after all of these years - replacing all fluids and fuel/hydraulic lines, replacing seals where needed, clean the carbs, replace battery and bulbs, ... Hopefully I don't need to open up the engine block and transmission.
However, there were mice in the rear section under the seat, and there's a few sketchy spots around the bike I'm not too sure about - the white spots might either be battery acid or mice pee. What I'm more worried about is the (potential) leak near the transmission. Again, might just be scratches from the mice, but input would be appreciated :)
transmission-leak-2.jpg
Tomorrow I'll roll the bike to the garage at my house so I can work on it properly (thankfully the tyres still hold pressure), but I already have two points where I'd like some input on:
- The fuel cap doesn't open, I can only turn the key approx. 30 degrees. I already tried oiling the cylinder, but that didn't seem to do the trick...
- Should I replace the oil before trying to start the engine; or repair it, start then engine, and then change the oil when warm? Either way, I probably need to the change the oil again after a few hundred kilometers to get all of the smut out of the system.
Either way, I'm glad this forum exists, and thanks for reading :)
first-aid-kit.jpg
(old first aid kit I found in the bike)
That looks like a great bike to be working on, congratulations.
Regarding couple of your questions, the "Oil leak" Of actually the clutch slave cylinder seals leaking - a common enough issue and one easily tackled at minimal cost.
Definitely change the oil and cooler before you start the engine - you can check them both for debris before turning the engine over.
As well as a thorough carb cleaning, with new seals and o-rings, in addition to all the things you have mentioned, you're going to want to put new tyres on before riding it, and I'd put new brake pads in it too.
Hope it all goes well and keep us updated on progress - and any issues you come across...
Best of luck from the UK.
Sorry for the "auto text" typing error - change the oil and FILTER, not the "cooler"
Yes, change oil, filter, brake, clutch fluids. Get and install a clutch slave seal kit. Get a clutch master, front brake master and rear brake master seal kits....You may or may not need them (but probably will)
Remove the fuel tank, clean (and seal if needed) Replace the fuel lines and fuel filter.
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A1FK-24560-10
Replace the oem rubber brake lines with new TUV braided stainless steel lines.
Get a carb screw kit with o rings from RPM,
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit
Learn about the FJ Mikuni BS 36CV carbs, find someone local with an ultrasound cleaner for cleaning the carbs. Buy new tires, plugs and battery. Plan on possibly needing a new fuel pump.
Remove plugs, squirt some penetrating oil into the cylinders, let stand over night. Remove left side crank cover, with a box end wrench, slowly, carefully rotate the crank back and forth in small increments, easy does it. If the piston rings break free, good...if not, squirt in more oil, let sit, and try again the next day....back and forth little at a time....
Repeat as necessary until the pistons break loose.
Never, never, never use the electric starter to do this... you will break rings, scratch cylinder walls and stretch the starter chain.
Do it by hand.
Slowly. Little at a time. Easy does it.
Good on ya for doing this...let us know how we can help. Read our Files section
"We have miles and miles of files, pretty files of your forefathers fruit..."
Cheers lad
Pat
I got pretty busy with university (among other stuff), but finally got around to properly working on the bike again.
So here's a small update on my progress:
Successes:
- I got the fuel cap to open (lots of penetrating oil)
- drained the oil, removed oil filter
- briefly plugged in battery, tested lights
- hand cranked the engine using the rear tire in 5th gear. bit of wd-40, let it sit over night, cranked right away.
"Work in progress":
- I'm still struggeling with removing the piston of the master brake cylinder. It's quite gummed up, but at least the circlip is out now. Currently using rust remover to hopefully salvage the cylinder block at least...
- removed carbs, partly disassembled. Got new gaskets for float bowls and needle valves. However I am struggeling with stuck screws. I got a impact JIS driver, WD-40 and a heat gun, but it's hard to gauge whether or not the soft metal screwheads will cam out...
I'm using the clymer repair manual together with youtube videos to figure out what to remove. I know how a carburettor works in general, but I can't seem to find material that explains how exactly the BS36 works. Anyone got some sources for me here? :)
Here's what the bike currently looks like:
top-view.JPG
left-side.JPG
right-side.JPG
As well as the carbs - I also quickly found out that I need to be very diligent with storing the parts of the bike.
separated-carbs.JPG
drawer-org.JPG
And also big thanks for the guidance so far, I was actually thinking about cranking the engine using the starter - probably saved me some later issues there Pat :D
Forgot to mention, but I also plan on replacing the brake+clutch, as well as the fuel lines.
For the hydraulic steel flex lines, I'm thinking of going with Spiegler - anyone got experience with them?
However I'm not sure about which fuel lines to buy. Most I found online seem a lot thicker, which might be problematic with routing?
I bought a set of Spiegler front brake lines from RPM. I went with the dual lines, it has a double banjo at the master cylinder and a long line to each front caliper. They seem great to me.
Lots of threads here about replacing the master cylinder and calipers with later model bolt-on Yamaha parts, which is very worthwhile. Here is my thread from where I first got my FZ1 parts:
https://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=19343.45
1989 is a great year!
Thanks for the feedback - I think I'll go with the OEM routing, otherwise I'd need to get an inspection done (TÜV) for getting the bike legally approved for road usage. Though double banjo sounds nice... :/
Are the master cylinder and caliper exchange basically "plug and play"? If so, that might be a good way to go about it, as both piston assemblies seem pretty stuck.
Another update: checked the starter today, working without issues. Also got the float pins out after lots of WD-40, however the screws securing the float valve seat are gunked up. Hopefully I'll get that unstuck during the next few days, so that I can finally fire up the engine for the first time in roughly 25 years :)
Henrik
Quote from: orc4n on October 12, 2024, 10:47:54 AMThanks for the feedback - I think I'll go with the OEM routing, otherwise I'd need to get an inspection done (TÜV) for getting the bike legally approved for road usage. Though double banjo sounds nice... :/
Are the master cylinder and caliper exchange basically "plug and play"? If so, that might be a good way to go about it, as both piston assemblies seem pretty stuck.
Another update: checked the starter today, working without issues. Also got the float pins out after lots of WD-40, however the screws securing the float valve seat are gunked up. Hopefully I'll get that unstuck during the next few days, so that I can finally fire up the engine for the first time in roughly 25 years :)
Henrik
Yes, the master cylinder and calipers are plug and play for your FJ. Yamaha blue spot calipers and FZS Fazer 1000 master cylinders are plentiful and cheap on eBay and in owners forums and groups across Europe.
Very nice bike, keep it and enjoy it
Thank you
Welcome.
Without this forum, most of us would be lost. It will take some time and money to shake the gremlins out of your Dad's bike, but, should be worth it.
The FJ is a big and powerful motorcycle, and it might be a great time to take a look at your riding skills. Are you a daily rider, or, a sometime rider? Don't forget to improve yourself, along with the bike, if you need to do that.
I'm sad, as today is the day I ride my bike over to the storage garage, and put it away before the long and hard Minnesota winter. I dream with the guys who can ride all year round, and will do so for the next 6 months.
Ted
Hi all,
Thanks for the info(s) :D
I managed to find a used FJ master cylinder, will try using that at first. Might still swap with to newer one later on though.
Ted: I'm still taking driving lessons for my license, but I plan to take it slow afterwards as well. My main use-case for the FJ will be as a daily rider to uni and work. Although it's slowly getting colder here too, so let's see for how long I'm motivated to actually ride, or when it's too slippery outside to ride safely. :')
Progress Update:
- Put carbs back together, airbox & carbs back into the bike and:
- Got the engine running! It was smoking a lot from the exhaust & cooling fins, and the oil quickly changed colour as well. My guess is that because I changed the oil while the engine was cold, it now picked up the residue oil and mixed with the new oil. Will need to do a new oil change soon. However:
- oil pump works, as well as
- alternator works as well - measured increased voltage with multimeter.
- Bought Spiegler steelflex brake & clutch lines, will mount them soon.
- bought a new (used) fuel pump, mine had a short circuit (probably seized)
- new fuel petcock & filters + tools as needed
Here's a pic of the smoking exhaust:
20241025_191314-2.jpg
auxiliary tank setup for running the bike:
20241022_224042.jpg
dirt & oil smoking off of the exhaust pipes:
20241025_191325.jpg
Issues:
- I tried to unmount the clutch master cylinder, however I found this little metal notch holding it in place. Do I need to disassemble the switch case on the handlebar?
20241021_225937.jpg
- When I first started up the engine, I did a bit of an oopsie - I didn't remount the clutch slave cylinder. So 5 seconds after starting the engine, the long push rod got "shot out" (and oil as well). After stopping the engine I looked had a look into the hole where the pushrod came out of and saw the steel ball still in place. The push rod is not bent either. Should I be worried and disassemble the clutch, or is just sticking the push rod back in fine? It fits perfectly into the crevice of the clutch slave cylinder.
- When derusting the tank, should I remove the float gauge? I'm using "RostIO", it's very similar to evaporust.
As always, thanks for your help and kind words, I really appreciate it :)
Henrik
Good progress. Remember, those tires are rock hard, well past their expiration date....Dont ride the bike until you get fresh rubber down there.
I see Pat let the whole "shooting the shift rod out the left side" go by without comment ... maybe he'll fill in the "spearing the cat" story! :lol:
Nice progress!
Not sure how Pat missed that, it is mind boggling... That's one of his favorite stories. (popcorn)
While I'm glad to see that I'm not the first to fall for that, I'm now more intrigued to hear about this cat and spear story :lol:
Ok, ok, The classic's come back: Years ago, I had this cat who was an absolute pest in the garage. I could not leave my sockets on the floor, or any nuts, bolts or miscellaneous parts for that matter...she would sit watching me and as soon as my head was turned, she would dash in and bat away anything she could get her paws on...She thought it was funny. She got real good at hiding so I would think she was in the back yard, I would go in the house to take a leak or grab a soda and she would pounce, scattering my shit everywhere. Fucking cat....I had to learn put my tools and any parts in a bucket...even on my workbench....fucking cat.
This cat was fearless, I had to think she was partially deaf. I could start my FJ and she would sit right beside it. One day I started my FJ with the clutch slave off...and just like you have found out, the clutch pushrod shot out, I heard a Yeeeeeowwww the cat dashed out the door...never to set foot in my garage again.
I should have done that years earlier. It was worth the lost oil.
Don't think I've ever heard the long version of that! :lol:
Classic!!! We almost need an "FJ Lore" section ...
When browsing the forum for info I'm always delighted when I stumble upon a story like that :biggrin:
Will update soon, once I get the new brake & clutch lines I'll start working on that :)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 26, 2024, 02:30:48 PMOk, ok, The classic's come back: Years ago, I had this cat who was an absolute pest in the garage. I could not leave my sockets on the floor, or any nuts, bolts or miscellaneous parts for that matter...she would sit watching me and as soon as my head was turned, she would dash in and bat away anything she could get her paws on...She thought it was funny. She got real good at hiding so I would think she was in the back yard, I would go in the house to take a leak or grab a soda and she would pounce, scattering my shit everywhere. Fucking cat....I had to learn put my tools and any parts in a bucket...even on my workbench....fucking cat.
This cat was fearless, I had to think she was partially deaf. I could start my FJ and she would sit right beside it. One day I started my FJ with the clutch slave off...and just like you have found out, the clutch pushrod shot out, I heard a Yeeeeeowwww the cat dashed out the door...never to set foot in my garage again.
I should have done that years earlier. It was worth the lost oil.
In the Mid 80s I worked at a garage while putting myself through college, and the shop dog Dusty, a female German Shepherd, would take bolts and brake springs etc. and drop them in the toilet. No shit (no punt intended). Learned quick not to keep parts on the ground next to me...
I too shot the push rod across the garage. Didn't spear any animals though.
The new brakelines arrived. Was surprised, that the clutch line is replacing the whole assembly, including the piping. I'm thinking of routing it the same way and buying new new rubber mounts, because mine are either stuck on the old brakelines and/or deteriorated.
I managed to clean the banjos bolts using a small ultra sonic cleaner. Except the paint, they look good as new, so I'm planning on reusing them.
The brake&clutch master cylinder finally got unstuck using a grease gun, currently still working on cleaning the greasy mess. However the clutch slave cylinder is still stuck. When applying the grease it did move out of the housing, but the seals gave way, resulting in the cylinder still being stuck.
Am I out of luck here and need to buy a new clutch slave assembly? I couldn't find a piston online :/
I also wanted to replace the cain and sprockets, but realised I need to finish the brakes first :scratch_one-s_head:
Will take apart the calipers soon. The rear master cylinder wasn't stuck, but the brakes were still sticking - and the brake fluid had a rotten smell, so replacing the seals is probably a good idea anyways.
Anyways, deadline of "registering + riding it before the end of the year" is quickly approaching, but I'm still hopeful :smile:
Henrik
Getting through all these details properly will be worth it! Just takes time. And effort. And money. And time. And more time. :empathy2:
Congrats on resurrecting your Dad's old bike. It will be worth it in the end. Do start off slowly when you start riding. These are big heavy bikes. Happy New Year and have fun!
Update: I got the hydraulics nearly done. I removed all three calipers and did a complete rebuild. The hydraulic fluid gummed up all the seals, so I had to use a grease gun to force the pistons out. Lotta fun to clean up afterwards :good2:
After carefully scraping out the deep gunk out of the nook where the seals go, I replaced them, no issues so far. New steel flex lines are installed as well.
I bought a new clutch slave cylinder off of ebay for like 30 bux, because the piston was stuck in mine. Haven't put fluid in system yet.
One issue I still have is bleeding the front brakes. Rear brake was easy, but at the front I'm at the point where after pumping a few times, I get nearly sufficient brake pressure - but there's obviously still air in the system. I tried: Normal bleeding, reverse bleeding (both from both bleed screws), bleeding at all union bolts, as well as tying the brake handle to the bar over night. Anyone got any other tips? I'm using the connecting piece with a double banjo bolt, so I got three brake lines in total.
What i do if i'm having a bit of trouble at the lever is to disconnect the banjo union at the caliper then fill the reservoir with fluid. Hold the brake union with my finger and thumb and then pump the brake lever a few times then let go of the union and keep doing that until a flow of fluid comes out of the pipe. Once a flow of fluid is coming out connect the banjo back on the caliper and hopefully you should be then able to bleed up. Good luck.
Did you also crack the banjo at the reservoir? Maybe also try looping the top hose back into the reservoir and see if you get air there. The master cylinder might need to be bled, or maybe the master cylinder is letting air into the system?
Another thought - unbolt the calipers and tap on the with a screwdriver handle as you twist and turn them - might free up some trapped air and get it to the bleed screw.
Might also try pumping the pistons in the calipers out a bit and then pushing them back manually to force fluid back up the system - JUST BE CAREFUL NOT TO OVERFLOW THE RESERVOIR!
Thanks for all the input - This update is 50/50, frustration :dash2: and good progress :good:
Frustration: Still no pressure at the brake lever. Symptoms are weird - I always get pressure after tying the lever to the grip overnight, but it always reverts back after a few minutes. I tried all your tricks @fj1289, but still no success. Honestly will probably leave this a mechanic who'll change the tires as well. Just not worth my nerves anymore.
Progress: Getting pressure on the clutch lever was super easy though. However, frustration: The clutch plates are sticky. :shout: I put the transmission into gear while having the engine running, no dragging and no slipping, but it only disengages at larger torque differences (like revving the engine a bit). Should get better with time, right?
And another progress: Synced the carbs. Runs waaaay better at idle now. But, again, frustration: The engine bogs and nearly stalls when applying throttle aggressivly (twisting nearly as fast as I can). Is this normal, or do I have a vaccuum leak somewhere? :scratch_one-s_head:
The engine also slightly dips below idle after revving (like 100rpm for about 5 secs), but the pilot screw is a) already at 3 turns out, and b) revs drop more slowly when making pilot richer as well.
As always, cheers for the help - hope to get her on the road soon :good2:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 25, 2024, 05:52:15 PMGood progress. Remember, those tires are rock hard, well past their expiration date....Dont ride the bike until you get fresh rubber down there.
Yep I got to drift Pat's bike around a couple of corners before I changed his tires. And they weren't that old. Was kinda fun. Didn't go much more than 55mph. And only a couple of miles before I changed them.