When I got my FJ going again a few years ago, the old EBC rotors were corroded from leaking brake fluid. I bought blue spots and used them as is - pads and seals. A couple of years ago I bought a new set of EBC rotors from the classifieds here, and ordered new pads and a caliper rebuild kit from RPM. Time to do this.
Stopping is even more important than going Bryan - wise move and hopefully you get to put them to good use for the rest of the summer :good2:
Very true Dean!
I popped out my first pair of pistons tonight. Thanks FJ Hooligan for the tip:
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on June 15, 2020, 02:00:22 PM
For monoblocks, I tie wrap one side of pistons in place and force the opposing pistons out. I then remove the seals and reinstall the pistons, tie wrap them and blow the remaining side out.
As you probably already know, watch out for your fingers.
Hard to get in there to pop out the seals. Any techniques? The OEM calipers are easier because they come apart. I could have kept fussing with it but it was time to call it a night, so I thought I'd ask the group.
I do one side at a time.
1) Clamp pistons on one side,
2) use air to pop out the opposite side pistons.
3) with the pistons out, replace the seals on that side, put the pistons back in....
4) now clamp the rebuilt side and pop out the pistons on the opposite side.
Cheers. Pat
Thanks Pat! I have got that sequence figured out. I'm just having a hard time prying out the old seals and am looking for tips/tools for that task.
Quote from: Waiex191 on August 02, 2023, 07:18:54 AM
Thanks Pat! I have got that sequence figured out. I'm just having a hard time prying out the old seals and am looking for tips/tools for that task.
Once you have the pistons out, the seals should come out easily with a 90 degree/right angle pick tool. :good2:
I usually use the Pick to gently start off the cleaning process of the seal grooves too.
Thanks guys, I did get them out with a pick. I've done the preliminary cleaning and time to put them back together.
Sadly I have not made any progress on this project until last night. I had found some issues with the airplane, and had some scheduled maintenance due on the airplane as well, so that diverted me for a couple of weeks. Last night I did get the new RPM caliper seals in and installed the pistons. My blue spots look awesome inside. The stock FJ calipers were always a mess of corrosion when I had to service them. It was easier to work on them though since they came apart.
Time to get cracking on the FJ though. My trusty GN400 has killed another headlight bulb, I discovered the tail lights were all out, and the only thing that sort of worked were the turnsignals. A 6V non-counterbalanced signal is always going to be sketchy electrically. Thank heavens the ignition is not dependent on the electrical system.
I also bought a new rear tyre and an RPM fork brace. As much as I'd like to do the whole USD forks thing, the fork brace is probably the more practical route.
These bug shields work great with your new fork brace:
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ForkSeal%26Protector (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ForkSeal%26Protector)
Finally back on the wheels. I started bleeding the brakes but had to call it a night. Was brutally hot in the hangar last night. I may ride it without the fender until I can fix the mounting tabs. On the airplane topic I've also finished my cockpit lighting. Time to start flying at night.
I've had stubborn brakes before. But my blue spots are killing me. Not too bad when I first put them on, but since I've rebuilt the calipers I can't get them to bleed. I'm not seeing any leaks. What I've tried to do for extra credit is to pop the calipers off, pump the pistons out a ways, then push them back in to force the fluid up. I've also pumped up the brakes, held the lever to the bar with a bungee, let it set, then cracked the banjo fitting at the master. No joy. Any ideas? I don't see any leaks.
Quote from: Waiex191 on August 30, 2023, 10:31:40 PMI've had stubborn brakes before. But my blue spots are killing me. Not too bad when I first put them on, but since I've rebuilt the calipers I can't get them to bleed. I'm not seeing any leaks. What I've tried to do for extra credit is cracked the banjo fitting at the master. No joy. Any ideas? I don't see any leaks.
Waiex,
You prolly know, RPM has banjo bleeder bolts for the handlebar master cylinders. Good stuff.
SpeedBleeders.com may be good help also. Makes bleeding hydraulic systems into an easy, one-person job.
It's just me, but unless you are launching/landing at an airport in the 'burbs (with lotsa streetlights below), solo night flying may be unwise. Even then, an area-wide power failure could remove that good ground reference, leaving only blackness below. Got a radar (absolute) altimeter? Your call, of course.
Tie the brake lever back with a zip tie over night. Voila insta brakes. 15 years ago now I had the same problem on an FJ, and someone suggested this, no damn way it would work. Sure as hell brake lever was hard as a rock the next morning.
I've had similar issues with both brakes and clutch (not just my FJ) - the solution was "reverse bleeding", pushing fluid in through the caliper bleed nipples and watching the trapped air bubble out of the fluid at the master cylinder. Just do it carefully, with cloths around the open master cylinder top to catch any splashes.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on August 30, 2023, 11:43:23 PM
Tie the brake lever back with a zip tie over night. Voila insta brakes. 15 years ago now I had the same problem on an FJ, and someone suggested this, no damn way it would work. Sure as hell brake lever was hard as a rock the next morning.
I've tried this a couple of times, no joy.
Dean I may need to buy another tool. But I'm also thinking there is a leak somewhere.
Take a listen to the noise my right caliper makes when I squeeze the brakes:
https://youtu.be/9d0rIhnQXyU?si=iECI-r3tNhZMEg1g (https://youtu.be/9d0rIhnQXyU?si=iECI-r3tNhZMEg1g)
It was doing that before too. I took my calipers all the way apart again and didn't see anything. Made sure they were clean, and reassembled with plenty of fluid during assembly. I also replaced the copper washers which I skipped last time.
Any ideas on the noise and if it is a clue or not?
Brakes have improved a little bit but still not good.
Waiex,
Dis-assemble, clean and lube all of the pivot points on the front brake lever, first.
Keep us posted.
Quote from: red on September 04, 2023, 07:16:03 AM
Waiex,
Dis-assemble, clean and lube all of the pivot points on the front brake lever, first.
Keep us posted.
I'll do that. The brake lever feels great though, I have been pumping it a lot. When I put a finger on the outside of the right caliper I can feel it as well as hear it.
I did the bungee the lever to the handle trick overnight. Big improvement, and I've got the bungee back on it. Haven't had a chance to do the pivot yet.
Waiex,
The caliper body has to slide left and right, to center itself on the disk. Make sure that the caliper is free to move as it should on the mounts. You may need to remove the brake pads to check this. Do not move the brake lever, and you should be able to re-install the brake pads without much trouble.
If the caliper is not free to move, one pad may remain touching the disk, causing the disk to get HOT (not just warm) and that can cause a brake failure or even a lockup.
Quote from: red on September 04, 2023, 03:32:14 PM
Waiex,
The caliper body has to slide left and right, to center itself on the disk. Make sure that the caliper is free to move as it should on the mounts. You may need to remove the brake pads to check this. Do not move the brake lever, and you should be able to re-install the brake pads without much trouble.
If the caliper is not free to move, one pad may remain touching the disk, causing the disk to get HOT (not just warm) and that can cause a brake failure or even a lockup.
These are 4 pot calipers that bolt hard to the forks - they don't float like my old Suzuki calipers that only have a piston on one side.
I think that is just the pads slapping into the rotor take a close look and se if they move
Or the pistons slapping into the pad. If it is the piston coppergrease or special brakepad tape on the backside of the pad is a solution.
On my last pad change to High sintered i got a similar sound, but that was when driving in slow speed and it was the pads moving forward inside the caliper and make a clicking sound when brake aplyed .Some more coppergrease stops that .
I looked last night and didn't see them moving. Pads are on the rotor and they just squeeze.
I added a bleeder banjo bolt at the MC and also did some reverse bleeding as some have described. No real change, I am going to try rebuilding the MC next. I also have another set of calipers on the way from ebay.
There is a secondary super tiny hole in the mc that gets clogged easily. When it's apart you can shine a light up the bore and make sure it is unclogged. I don't know how big the dang thing is but seems like it's 0.0001" you won't be able to get the brakes to bleed if that is clogged.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on September 08, 2023, 09:56:49 PM
There is a secondary super tiny hole in the mc that gets clogged easily. When it's apart you can shine a light up the bore and make sure it is unclogged. I don't know how big the dang thing is but seems like it's 0.0001" you won't be able to get the brakes to bleed if that is clogged.
Thanks! I'll look for it.
Any luck with your brakes? Earlier you were concerned there was a leak: did you see fluid anywhere it shouldn't be? Is the fluid dropping/lever getting soft overnight? Any blemishes on the pistons that you saw during rebuild that might cause a leak past a seal?
Quote from: melloncollie on September 10, 2023, 10:54:12 PM
Any luck with your brakes? Earlier you were concerned there was a leak: did you see fluid anywhere it shouldn't be? Is the fluid dropping/lever getting soft overnight? Any blemishes on the pistons that you saw during rebuild that might cause a leak past a seal?
I saw no leaks. There was some corrosion on the part of the piston that pushes the pad, but all outside the seals. Plus it was like that before. This week I'm going to pop off the MC and replace the seals, and look for the tiny hole Robert mentioned.
It's not getting soft overnight, just never getting hard.
The small hole in the MC seemed clear. There are only two holes unless I missed one. I put new seals in the MC and it seemed a lot better, but now I have a sizeable leak getting past the piston. Very frustrating.
I also found my used MC had a busted brake lever.
Do you have the correct seals for your model of caliper?
The Yamaha axial mount monoblock calipers comes in two flavors
1) the 2001 and earlier silver or blue button calipers use the thinner wall stainless steel pistons.. the seals on these calipers are crazy expensive (and I don't know why) see here:
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2001/yzfr1-yzfr1n/front-brake-caliper (https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2001/yzfr1-yzfr1n/front-brake-caliper)
2) the 2002/2003 gold button calipers (last years of the axial mount caliper on the R-1) uses the thicker wall aluminum pistons...these seals are a different part # than the above seals and are much less expensive.
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2003/r1-yzfr1r/front-brake-caliper (https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2003/r1-yzfr1r/front-brake-caliper)
I'm not sure you can use the less expensive aluminum piston seals on the stainless steel piston calipers, the part #25803 is the same, but model prefix is different and on the 'Related Fitment' listings I see no backward compatibility with the 02/03 seals and bikes using the earlier calipers.
Aluminum pistons use inexpensive seals:
(https://fjowners.com/gallery/10/49_02_02_17_11_23_22.jpeg)
Stainless pistons use $$$ seals
(https://fjowners.com/gallery/10/49_02_02_17_11_26_26.jpeg)
Cheers. Pat
Pat,
I've got stainless pistons and bought the kit from RPM. They seemed right.
I've just got the MC back together. I may have done a poor job on installing the new seals. I also re-cleaned everything and polished the piston where the seal rides. Also the inboard seal was not stuck on the spring properly the first go. I think it's better. We will see shortly.
Not sure why it is Pat, but the seals for my stainless early blue spots R1 calipers are not particularly expensive compared to seals for most other bikes. Not had any issues with my R1 calipers over site a few years.
I wonder if it's just an availability issue in the USA that is driving the price up?
I hear ya Dean, the price is one thing, but different part # prefixes and according to the 'related fitment' listings, it shows only forward compatibility for the 2002/2003 seals and no backward compatibility for the earlier calipers. Same with the 2001 and earlier seals, No forward compatibility with the 2002+ calipers.
I wonder what's up? I think I'll go visit the R-1 forum and ask the question.
Bryan, what Yamaha part # did you get?
Cheers
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 16, 2023, 07:13:55 PM
Bryan, what Yamaha part # did you get?
Cheers
390N? That's on the casting.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 17, 2023, 09:34:43 AM
The part # on the seals
These ones:
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BlueSpotCaliperORings (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BlueSpotCaliperORings)
Quote from: Waiex191 on September 17, 2023, 02:43:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 17, 2023, 09:34:43 AM
The part # on the seals
These ones:
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BlueSpotCaliperORings (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BlueSpotCaliperORings)
Ok, no problem, I was just wondering if they had a Yamaha part # on the bag vs aftermarket.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 17, 2023, 06:30:02 PM
Ok, no problem, I was just wondering if they had a Yamaha part # on the bag vs aftermarket.
From memory, the parts were in an unmarked bag. The RPM folks probably know what they are.
I think I have my leaks squared away. Bike is packed up for tomorrow's commute after a short test ride tonight.
Still working fender fixes, I'll share that later.