Well, I've started wrenching on the old girl so I figure I should start one of these threads.
Part 1:
I couldn't figure out how to embed the video (if that's even supported here!) so here's a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiMXU8oqQM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiMXU8oqQM)
Basically, I got as far as getting the seat off. Hooked up power via a 12v power supply and got lights, horn, and fuel pump clickage. Low amp output was causing some funky disco effects with the lights, but they all worked. Minus one of the rear turn signals, but that's just a disconnected bullet connector.
Looks like a promising start to the project! :good2: :good2:
Next step is pulling the tank off and draining it. It looks pretty rusty inside. Not flaky, or even thick... Just brown. So I'll drain it and treat it, let that soak for a few days while I rip the carbs out and see what's going on in there.
Electrolysis for the tank, (see YouTube) then Por-15 3 step wash, prep and seal = good to go.
I had good results with a glycolic acid based gloop that sounded like snake oil in the adverts
Non toxic no damaging to paint metal plastic in fact only damaging to iron oxide.
Left it in a very rusty tank for a month at 20c and it worked!
Result was clean shiny pitted steel ....id definitely use again
Mitragorz,
Remove the fuel sender, and close off the opening there. Put a length of thin cheap chain into the tank, close the gas cap, and shake or tumble the tank for a while to loosen the worst of the rust.
You could use lots of metal things for the agitator, but it is easiest to extract chain. Grab one link, and you have all of them. :yes:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 30, 2022, 03:01:31 PM
Electrolysis for the tank, (see YouTube) then Por-15 3 step wash, prep and seal = good to go.
I've used POR-15 on plenty of old rusty plow trucks... Didn't know they made a tank sealant, but I see it now. I'm going to look into that. Will electrolysis damage the paint? I planned on zapping some of the small bolts and parts that show rust, wire wheeling if I have to, then trying my hand at nickel plating. I've never electrolysized anything painted, just plain rusty stuff.
Quote from: Urx on September 30, 2022, 04:50:36 PM
I had good results with a glycolic acid based gloop that sounded like snake oil in the adverts
Non toxic no damaging to paint metal plastic in fact only damaging to iron oxide.
Left it in a very rusty tank for a month at 20c and it worked!
Result was clean shiny pitted steel ....id definitely use again
I'll look into that as well. Did you use anything to seal it afterwards?
Quote from: red on September 30, 2022, 04:54:18 PM
Mitragorz,
Remove the fuel sender, and close off the opening there. Put a length of thin cheap chain into the tank, close the gas cap, and shake or tumble the tank for a while to loosen the worst of the rust.
You could use lots of metal things for the agitator, but it is easiest to extract chain. Grab one link, and you have all of them. :yes:
Chain for sure. I was going to use some nuts and bolts, but chain is definitely better. I have plenty of gasket material, so I was just going to use that and drill some bolt holes in a scrap piece of metal and use it as a block-off plate. I have a new petcock on the shelf, bc they're cheap enough and who knows what the inside is like.
Quote from: Mitragorz on September 30, 2022, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: red on September 30, 2022, 04:54:18 PMMitragorz,
Remove the fuel sender, and close off the opening there. Put a length of thin cheap chain into the tank, close the gas cap, and shake or tumble the tank for a while to loosen the worst of the rust.
You could use lots of metal things for the agitator, but it is easiest to extract chain. Grab one link, and you have all of them.
Chain for sure. I was going to use some nuts and bolts, but chain is definitely better. I have plenty of gasket material, so I was just going to use that and drill some bolt holes in a scrap piece of metal and use it as a block-off plate. I have a new petcock on the shelf, bc they're cheap enough and who knows what the inside is like.
Mitragorz,
Whether the petcock is new or old, make sure the petcock's gasoline outlet tube is safety-wired in place, to prevent a gas fire.
Electrolysis to neutralize any rust inside a gas tank is easy to do. You can use a battery charger to do the deed.
No liquid solution gets outside of the gas tank; if it did, just wipe it away with a paper towel. There will be no problem about paint or decals on the outside of the tank.. The electrolysis process works where no cleaning tool can go. Dry the tank, and then finish the job with your tank sealant stuff.
https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolysis.pdf (https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolysis.pdf)
more:
https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolytic_derusting.htm (https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolytic_derusting.htm)
I'll add a suggestion for Caswell tank sealer. It's a 2 part epoxy and it a permanent fix. I've also used POR 15 but I tried Caswell on the last 2 tanks I coated and was impressed with the results.
Ok Part 2:
https://youtu.be/S4zuxtFuYBs
Takeaways... This bike is in much worse shape than I thought.
-Carbs are likely shot, but I'll do what I can.
-Gas tank has holes. The rust inside isn't so bad, but I'll likely be spot-welding the pinholes... After flushing it out well with water, of course.
-Cylinder 3 had water. Even if I get the carbs worked out (not hopeful) I don't know if cyl #3 is even good anymore. I'll run a compression test.
A lot of evidence points to this bike as being flooded at one point. I don't mean flooded carbs, I mean water up to the handlebars!
Overall... Not a good feeling about this one.
It doesn't look good. If you remove your clutch cover you can get a good look inside the bottom end and see what kind of rust problems you have there. I'm amazed it still turns over.
You'll be surprised what you can get away with! Especially in the short term - just get it running my any means possible - get a taste of kookaloo! Then start work through making things "pretty" and "right". You know - like the RoadKill Cropduster. It started out ROUGH - but they've had fun with it, improved it along the way, and now it's a nice project.
Quote from: fj1289 on October 15, 2022, 05:33:58 PM
You'll be surprised what you can get away with! Especially in the short term - just get it running my any means possible - get a taste of kookaloo! Then start work through making things "pretty" and "right". You know - like the RoadKill Cropduster. It started out ROUGH - but they've had fun with it, improved it along the way, and now it's a nice project.
What I
don't want to do is wind up taking the engine out and apart. I did that once with a '97 YZF1000 to put in a big bore kit, and it just led to a slew of other hiccups. And that was with a good motor. Cracking the case on this bike is the stuff of nightmares. OUt of sight out of mind, I don't want to see it!
Quote from: Mitragorz on October 15, 2022, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: fj1289 on October 15, 2022, 05:33:58 PM
You'll be surprised what you can get away with! Especially in the short term - just get it running my any means possible - get a taste of kookaloo! Then start work through making things "pretty" and "right". You know - like the RoadKill Cropduster. It started out ROUGH - but they've had fun with it, improved it along the way, and now it's a nice project.
What I don't want to do is wind up taking the engine out and apart. I did that once with a '97 YZF1000 to put in a big bore kit, and it just led to a slew of other hiccups. And that was with a good motor. Cracking the case on this bike is the stuff of nightmares. OUt of sight out of mind, I don't want to see it!
How do the electrical connectors look? Carefully take apart a few of the connectors in the harness and see how bad the contacts look. If not too bad, try hitting them with some contact cleaner and dielectric grease and see if things seem ok in the wiring harness. It they look badly corroded, I'd bet the wiring is in bad condition too. If wiring proves to be bad - just pull the harness and fab up a minimal harness as shown here: https://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16278.0
Use that to get the engine running.
Carbs - either be prepared to THOROUGHLY strip them, clean them reassemble them and try them about three times before you get them sorted, or send them to RPM. It is amazing how nasty the new additives in gas get when left in the carbs.
Drain any oil in it, add new, and go for it. If you get it running, maybe run it through a single heat cycle and change the oil and filter again.
Make sure you have brakes! Add some simple wiring for the headlight and brake lights - and ride it!
At that point you can decide how much time, effort, and money you want to spend fixing it up - and modifying it!
Good luck! Keep us posted :drinks:
PS - I wouldn't start digging into the engine if you aren't going to rebuild it now. If the cams, bearing journals, etc are all rusted up, pitted, etc, you'll find out in due time! And then you'll have to rebuild it! If not, then it will keep running for you! You won't know until you try ...
Go into this with your eyes wide open.... I started with the red picture, ended with the blue one....minus a boat load of cash. :dash2: Once I started I was committed...I probably just should of been committed (the OTHER kind of committed).
Quote from: fj1289 on October 15, 2022, 10:56:57 PM
How do the electrical connectors look? Carefully take apart a few of the connectors in the harness and see how bad the contacts look. If not too bad, try hitting them with some contact cleaner and dielectric grease and see if things seem ok in the wiring harness. It they look badly corroded, I'd bet the wiring is in bad condition too. If wiring proves to be bad - just pull the harness and fab up a minimal harness as shown here: https://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16278.0
Use that to get the engine running.
Carbs - either be prepared to THOROUGHLY strip them, clean them reassemble them and try them about three times before you get them sorted, or send them to RPM. It is amazing how nasty the new additives in gas get when left in the carbs.
Drain any oil in it, add new, and go for it. If you get it running, maybe run it through a single heat cycle and change the oil and filter again.
Make sure you have brakes! Add some simple wiring for the headlight and brake lights - and ride it!
At that point you can decide how much time, effort, and money you want to spend fixing it up - and modifying it!
Good luck! Keep us posted :drinks:
PS - I wouldn't start digging into the engine if you aren't going to rebuild it now. If the cams, bearing journals, etc are all rusted up, pitted, etc, you'll find out in due time! And then you'll have to rebuild it! If not, then it will keep running for you! You won't know until you try ...
The electrics, wiring at least, are in great shape. Starter works, horn works, lights all work. Only thing that doesn't function is the left rear turn signal, but that's just a broken bullet connector. The mice spared me in that department.
If she fires up, I'm definitely going to run some oil with detergent. Warm it up, drain it, probably do it twice.
Brakes seem to be alright. It's pretty hard to push around but it doesn't sound like the brakes are dragging. Probably a stiff chain. Tire pressures seem to be alright and I think if bearings were bad I'd hear it. In any case, I have some blue spot front calipers to put on and an FZ1 front master cylinder. I also had a new chain and sprockets but wound up returning them. I need to get this running before I start spending more money!
Quote from: Mitragorz on October 16, 2022, 08:21:12 AM
Quote from: fj1289 on October 15, 2022, 10:56:57 PM
How do the electrical connectors look? Carefully take apart a few of the connectors in the harness and see how bad the contacts look. If not too bad, try hitting them with some contact cleaner and dielectric grease and see if things seem ok in the wiring harness. It they look badly corroded, I'd bet the wiring is in bad condition too. If wiring proves to be bad - just pull the harness and fab up a minimal harness as shown here: https://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16278.0
Use that to get the engine running.
Carbs - either be prepared to THOROUGHLY strip them, clean them reassemble them and try them about three times before you get them sorted, or send them to RPM. It is amazing how nasty the new additives in gas get when left in the carbs.
Drain any oil in it, add new, and go for it. If you get it running, maybe run it through a single heat cycle and change the oil and filter again.
Make sure you have brakes! Add some simple wiring for the headlight and brake lights - and ride it!
At that point you can decide how much time, effort, and money you want to spend fixing it up - and modifying it!
Good luck! Keep us posted :drinks:
PS - I wouldn't start digging into the engine if you aren't going to rebuild it now. If the cams, bearing journals, etc are all rusted up, pitted, etc, you'll find out in due time! And then you'll have to rebuild it! If not, then it will keep running for you! You won't know until you try ...
The electrics, wiring at least, are in great shape. Starter works, horn works, lights all work. Only thing that doesn't function is the left rear turn signal, but that's just a broken bullet connector. The mice spared me in that department.
If she fires up, I'm definitely going to run some oil with detergent. Warm it up, drain it, probably do it twice.
Brakes seem to be alright. It's pretty hard to push around but it doesn't sound like the brakes are dragging. Probably a stiff chain. Tire pressures seem to be alright and I think if bearings were bad I'd hear it. In any case, I have some blue spot front calipers to put on and an FZ1 front master cylinder. I also had a new chain and sprockets but wound up returning them. I need to get this running before I start spending more money!
Sounds like it's in better shape than feared a few posts earlier. Focus on the carbs, new battery and plugs, and see what it does!
Not much of an update, but an update nonetheless.
https://youtu.be/MKzKStlyQWA
All this was probably 1-1/2 to 2 weeks ago, just dug into the carbs a little, checked out what's going on in there. Pretty nasty, as expected. I've done quite a bit since the stuff in the video, so better updates coming soon.
We have only had a few sets in the shop that have looked like that over the years and I don't know that they were even that bad. I have had good luck soaking carbs like this in fresh petrol. Soak for a week or so and usually everything frees up well enough to get it apart and clean. Once or twice a day I kind of get in there and move/try and move floats and slides around etc and they free up.
On that broken screw. The side of the air intake is actually peened over from Mikuni. You may be better served try to "tighten" it through, stead of trying to pull the peen through the threads with no head.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on November 01, 2022, 10:37:37 AM
We have only had a few sets in the shop that have looked like that over the years and I don't know that they were even that bad. I have had good luck soaking carbs like this in fresh petrol. Soak for a week or so and usually everything frees up well enough to get it apart and clean. Once or twice a day I kind of get in there and move/try and move floats and slides around etc and they free up/
Spoiler alert... Carb #1 never freed up. I got my hands on a set of carb bodies from aviationfred that I'm going to be using, apparently he had sent them off to you guys at RPM for a rebuild but decided that it wasn't worth the cost, and went with a new set for one o his builds. This was probably 6 or so years ago or so, according to him. But I have them now and they look to be in great shape, I'm not sure why they needed a rebuild in the first place. I've got the rebuild kits from you waiting to be installed in his carb bodies and, as long as cylinder #3 isn't toast, it should fire up. The carbs took a backseat to the tank, which sprung more leaks as the vinegar ate away at the rust... But I'm getting way ahead of myself here!
Yea, I think around that time a new set of carbs and rebuilding a set with carb kits were roughly the same cost. As Yamaha keeps rolling in and discontinuing things the prices get higher and higher. Damn alternator a few years ago was around 200 bucks I found one at a dealership somewhere back east for a customer and they wanted $1600 for it.
A couple more updates here:
Trying to clean the old carbs... At this point, I thought I could still save them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYaa3lFZGw0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYaa3lFZGw0)
And here I start getting into the fuel tank, to see what kind of surprises are waiting for me here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kXwRmPeGOc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kXwRmPeGOc)