Good morning,
I spent most of my youth through late-thirties on sport and motocross bikes, but strayed from them for the last twenty years while living in Montana. Well, I'm now on the California Central Coast and diving heavily back into motorcycles. It started a few years ago with a 2016 Super Tenere, which is my "daily driver", but I longed for some of the bikes I had (or wanted) in my youth, so I have since acquired a 1966 Honda 305 Scrambler for a town bike, a '72 CB 750 for the weekend cruiser bike, and just picked up the dream bike of my younger years, an immaculate 1993 FJ1200A for a sport touring bike. I'm too old to keep up with the fast guys, but I'd like to make some relevant upgrades. In perusing this forum, I have seen many good suggestions for tires, rear-wheel upgrade, brakes, brake lines, etc. but it's all a bit overwhelming for this rusty old fart. Knowing that everyone has their own preferences and riding style, what mods would you immediately make to your 1993 FJ for a more modern experience on the Pacific Coast Highway? Please give details. Ie: instead of just saying "17" rear wheel", please help me out by saying " 17" rear wheel from a 20XX blah blah, but you'll need to do XXXX to make the change". I'm super stoked to FINALLY have an FJ in my life. Better late than never.
Thanks in advance.
Welcome, what's your name?
The first thing I suggest isn't considered a modification but part of your deferred maintenance. I suggest the first thing to do is to change out the old ABS brake lines.....all of them. The oem rubber hoses are almost 30 years old, long over due.
The first upgrade mod on the '93 would be the suspension...start with the front forks, new springs and valves from RPM, then replacing that sacked out shock with a new shock and spring from RPM or Penske or Hagon
Cheers. Pat
Hi and Welcome from Australia.
As Pat said. Upgrade Brake line.
The fork upgrade and rear shock upgrade will transform the way the bike handles to a more modern feel and handling capability.
The next item if you want superior stopping to go with your new improved handling, is to upgrade to Blue, Silver or Gold spot front brake calipers. The can be sourced from early 2000 FJR's, XJR's, R6 or R1. (probably some other bikes as well)
They are a straight swap and if you can get them with the matching brake master cylinder even better.
There are more mods, it is a veritable rabbit hole of mods really :crazy:, but these are a good start.
RPM (as advertised on this forum) are you go to people for all thing FJ and are located in California
Mark
Apart from upgrading the brake hoses (safety) I would suggest you ride it for a while and see how it fits you - get a feel for it, then start looking for things that will improve your riding experience and enjoyment of the bike. As suggested, an RPM suspension upgrade is worth the $$$. No point in spending the hard earned on stuff to chase the young guys, not worth it IMO.
I have a 91 and the only mods I have made is to the suspension (RPM) for handling and comfort. I have recently added blue spots but there was no greatly noticable improvement except for feel with the replacement SS braided hoses. (I have an 84 1100 with original 16' front wheel, 88 forks, blue spots, braided hoses and V-Max rotors which easily outbrakes my 1200).
I too started out on dirt bikes in club level moto-X and enduros and found the off road skills I acquired improved my on road skills. No matter what I rode and how much I spent on upgrades and mods, I was never gonna catch the fast guys, so then as now, I ride for enjoyment and not how fast I can get from point A to point B. Also, at 73, comfort is high on my priority list, as I also have a 91 GL1500. I still keep a few DTs in the shed when I feel the need to stir up the dust.
If you haven't already done so, seek out a reputable riding school which does advance skills courses and sign up.
Follow Pat's advice for the 1st must do upgrades/mods.
You also mention 17" rear wheel. I am a huge advocate for the 17" wheel mod. This gives you the opportunity to use the latest and greatest Sport-Touring tires. As for which wheel to use is up too you. I think the most common upgrade is the 1997 Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat wheel. A small amount of machining work is required. With this mod, the recommended tire would be a 170/60/17.
The next most common wheel is the 1990-1995 GSX-R750, the 1993-1998 GSX-R1100 and the 1994-1997 RF900. This wheel allows the use of a 180/55/17 tire. There are a few very minor differences between the wheels. PM me for more details if you go this route.
Here is a write up in PDF format for the YZF600R wheel mod
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1567.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1567.0)
Here is a write up in PDF format for the GSX-R mod.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0)
Fred
I agree with all of the other guys on here about the mods :good2:
BUT I'll add a couple of things -
1) as Krusty has noted, the blue/silver/gold spot brake callipers don't really come into their own unless used with a matching/suitable master cylinder. My advice would be to watch eBay for a set up from a 2001-2005 Yamaha FZ1, mainly because the FZ1 was a big seller and they often come up for sale as full sets with the master cylinder included - for less than $100 all in.
And
2) the YZF 600 R (Thundercat) wheel swap is a lot easier than the links to the earlier wheel swap info indicate - there is no need to Machine the sprocket carrier at all (the FJ uses a shouldered rear sprocket, just fit the sprocket with the shoulder to the centre of the wheel, rather than the outside, and this provides the realignment needed without any machining) and there is also no need to Machine the wheel spacer, simply use the brake side spacer from the FJ in place of the 600 chain side spacer. On my FJ, when I did the swap, my torque arm didn't need any modifications to fit. So the only work needed is to have the 600 caliper mounting arm machined (or cut and filed) to make it 8mm narrower as described :good2:
Thanks, everyone. Great suggestions. I'll keep you posted!
I believe all the USA 1993 FJ's were ABS bikes.
He will lose the ABS if he changes the back rim and/or front brake m/c.
I'm not sure he wants to do all that (personally, I am not a fan of the FJ's ABS)
That's why I kept it simple.
Thanks again for the replies. I picked up the bike on Weds, and the thing is so darn clean that I hate to make any modifications, other than deferred maintenance. The odometer shows 21,000 miles and the tires are date-coded 2002. Obviously, garage kept, and not ridden in quite a while. I'm a happy camper.
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on January 15, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
Thanks again for the replies. I picked up the bike on Weds, and the thing is so darn clean that I hate to make any modifications, other than deferred maintenance. The odometer shows 21,000 miles and the tires are date-coded 2002. Obviously, garage kept, and not ridden in quite a while. I'm a happy camper.
Beautiful! Congratulations and welcome to FJ land.
It will be just as pretty and a whole lot more fun with the suspension work. The rear shock was never up to the task... replace it when you can. Forks need rework with stiffer springs and better valving. RPM is a good place to start...
Frank
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 14, 2022, 11:51:30 PM
I believe all the USA 1993 FJ's were ABS bikes.
He will lose the ABS if he changes the back rim and/or front brake m/c.
I'm not sure he wants to do all that (personally, I am not a fan of the FJ's ABS)
That's why I kept it simple.
But he did mention relevant upgrades Pat- and ditching the ABS seems to fit that bill. :sarcastic:
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on January 15, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
Thanks again for the replies. I picked up the bike on Weds, and the thing is so darn clean that I hate to make any modifications, other than deferred maintenance. The odometer shows 21,000 miles and the tires are date-coded 2002. Obviously, garage kept, and not ridden in quite a while. I'm a happy camper.
You can do the rear wheel swap without any alterations to your original FJ parts, so it's completely reversible and if you paint the wheel, using the YZF 600 R wheel, to match the front, it will look totally factory (even down to the YAMAHA cast into the spokes). BUT, you'll be able to get a nice 170/60x17 radial tire for it - and you do know that with 2002 tyres you need to swap them before even trying to sample the power, or ride in the rain :yes: (which, given its condition, I doubt you'll have any intention of doing in the near future).
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on January 15, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
.... that I hate to make any modifications.....
I understand the feeling of having found a mint example and your reluctance to mess with it, but there are tens of thousands of FJ's out there and mint, museum quality bikes are neither rare nor valuable (do not confuse asking prices with actual values).
A standard bike is still extremely ridable even all these years later, but if you intend to put some decent miles on it, the wheel, suspension, brake upgrade package delivers improvements way beyond expectations and propels the bike into the next century.
Noel
Again, thanks to all for the suggestions. The Pirelli Sport Demons, new rear rotor and pads should be here tomorrow. I'm looking forward to taking it for a spin and slowly analyzing what improvements I want to make. I'm a hotrodder at heart, so mods are inevitable, but spending the past few months getting my '71 CB750 and '66 305 Scrambler back to stock configuration gives me an interesting perspective on how tastes about originality change over the years. Heck, they're getting a grand for stock early CB exhaust systems these days, because as we all know, that was the first thing that went in the dumpster back in the day.
Follow up on the above suggestions. The shop manual I ordered hasn't arrived so some of these questions may sound stupid, but I'm anxious to get on this thing.
-New tires, obviously
-Oil change and adjust valves
-Check all bearings and seals
-New brake lines
-What is involved in removing the ABS system, and what needs to be purchased once it's removed? Some things mentioned in the above comments are master cylinder and brake lines. What else is necessary?
-Suggestions for fork springs, valving, and brace? Or is swapping in a modern fork a viable or better option?
-Range of years for the FZR600 wheel? Is there a definitive link on this forum to a professional-quality swap?
-Recommendations for a rear shock.
Thank you, Pete
Quote from: ribbert on January 16, 2022, 04:47:55 AM
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on January 15, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
.... that I hate to make any modifications.....
I understand the feeling of having found a mint example and your reluctance to mess with it, but there are tens of thousands of FJ's out there and mint, museum quality bikes are neither rare nor valuable (do not confuse asking prices with actual values).
A standard bike is still extremely ridable even all these years later, but if you intend to put some decent miles on it, the wheel, suspension, brake upgrade package delivers improvements way beyond expectations and propels the bike into the next century.
Noel
IMO, Noel nails FJ reality.
Pete, you have found a Beautiful FJ. If you do many of the mods mentioned, they can always be undone and revert back to the OEM parts.
Fred
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on January 16, 2022, 01:11:27 PM
-Range of years for the FZR600 wheel? Is there a definitive link on this forum to a professional-quality swap?
-Recommendations for a rear shock.
I'm a bit worried that you talk about the FZR 600 front wheel Pete - I think you might have been confused by a couple of things, but the FZR 600 front wheel is not a conversion I'm familiar with. Both Fred and I discussed the YZF 600 R (Thundercat) rear wheel, which not the FZR. I also mentioned that the 17" rear wheel from this 600 "matched" the FJ front wheel - I only meant in spoke design and type (i.e. Yamaha 3 spoke) and they're both 17" diameter.
The appropriate FZR front wheel swap for the FJ is the 1988 FZR 1000 front wheel. Or you could do a complete front end swap, again using the
YZR 600 R parts. But again be careful, the donor bike is neither a
The FZR 600, nor the YZF R6.
In terms of shock absorbers, it all depends on your budget. For the very best, go Penske/RPM, Ohlins, Wilbers -they'll likely cost as much as the bike is worth, but if you have the cash and you're a good enough rider to use/need the phenomenal performance they provide (I'm not) they're worth it. For the best value, where you get great performance and build quality but at about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of those others, the go for either Hagon or YSS. There's nothing to choose between them and they're both in a different league to the stock Yamaha shock, performance and quality wise.
I went for Hagen on my FJ, because of value and as they're based only 90 mins from me, their service - they provide an over-the-counter, while you wait service (it takes about 4 hours) if you book in advance. :good2:
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on January 16, 2022, 01:11:27 PM
Follow up on the above suggestions. The shop manual I ordered hasn't arrived so some of these questions may sound stupid, but I'm anxious to get on this thing.
-New tires, obviously
-Oil change and adjust valves
-Check all bearings and seals
-New brake lines
-What is involved in removing the ABS system, and what needs to be purchased once it's removed? Some things mentioned in the above comments are master cylinder and brake lines. What else is necessary?
-Suggestions for fork springs, valving, and brace? Or is swapping in a modern fork a viable or better option?
-Range of years for the FZR600 wheel? Is there a definitive link on this forum to a professional-quality swap?
-Recommendations for a rear shock.
Thank you, Pete
Get the rear wheel you need, refinish it, and put a tire on it. Then make an appointment and take to RPM... with your checkbook. There are few better ways to "get on this thing" than to take it there and have it sorted while you wait/participate. If you order stuff in advance and get it all lined up, this and more can all be done in a day... and the carbs can be clean/balanced/tuned to wake that thing right up... you're probably going to want the doubled up clutch spring if you get it making full power, otherwise it will slip at about 6K and WOT. They can do that for you while you're there too.
Frank
Something else to ponder..... using the YZF600R Thundercat rear wheel (17" x 5"). The optimum tire size is a 170/60/17. All of the major players in the Sport-Touring tire lines offer the 170 in their latest and greatest. I could be wrong, but Metzeler.... the Roadtec 01 SE does not come in a 170 and Continental.... the soon to be released Road Attack 4 does not come in a 170
Michelin offers a 170
https://www.michelinman.com/motorcycle/tires/michelin-road-6 (https://www.michelinman.com/motorcycle/tires/michelin-road-6)
Dunlop offers a 170
https://www.dunlopmotorcycletires.com/tire-line/sportmax-roadsmart-iv/ (https://www.dunlopmotorcycletires.com/tire-line/sportmax-roadsmart-iv/)
Pirelli offers a 170
https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/pirelli-angel-gt-ii-tires?sku_id=1592347 (https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/pirelli-angel-gt-ii-tires?sku_id=1592347)
Bridgestone offers a 170
https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/bridgestone-battlax-t32-sport-touring-tires?sku_id=10066722 (https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/bridgestone-battlax-t32-sport-touring-tires?sku_id=10066722)
Avon offers a 170
https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/avon-spirit-st-tires?sku_id=1274126 (https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/avon-spirit-st-tires?sku_id=1274126)
Metzeler offers a 170
https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/metzeler-roadtec-01-tires?sku_id=1127127 (https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/metzeler-roadtec-01-tires?sku_id=1127127)
Continental offers a 170
https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/continental-road-attack-3-tires?sku_id=1205609 (https://www.cyclegear.com/tires/continental-road-attack-3-tires?sku_id=1205609)
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on January 16, 2022, 11:23:31 PM
......I could be wrong, but Metzeler.... the Roadtec 01 SE does not come in a 170 and Continental.... the soon to be released Road Attack 4 does not come in a 170
Fred
No, you're spot on about the sizing Fred, I just fitted a set of Metzeler 01 SE's and enquired about the Conti RA's as they are an old favourite of mine but I couldn't wait for the 4's. The first thing they mentioned with both tyres was the limited range of sizes, fortunately I run 180's.
That's a very comprehensive list you've put together there Fred.
Noel
There's also the BT023 and BT023GT available from Bridgestone - I'm running a matched pair of BT023's (although I do have a FZR 1000 3.5" wide front wheel) and love them. :good2:
Quote from: aviationfred on January 16, 2022, 04:49:41 PM
Pete, you have found a Beautiful FJ. If you do many of the mods mentioned, they can always be undone and revert back to the OEM parts.
Fred
Fred is absolutely right ! With the exception of the exhaust and the brake lines, I have everything on the shelf in my garage to turn my FJ back to completely stock in a couple of hours - and anyway, yours has already been modified from stock by changing the seat :good2:
Can you spot the all modifications that have "ruined" my (what some call) mint FJ Pete? :sarcastic:
Quote from: Millietant on January 17, 2022, 03:30:55 AM
Quote from: aviationfred on January 16, 2022, 04:49:41 PM
....If you do many of the mods mentioned, they can always be undone and revert back to the OEM parts.
Fred
....I have everything on the shelf in my garage to turn my FJ back to completely stock in a couple of hours...
This comes up often, but why would anyone want to return it to standard? The bike is better to ride with the mods and is more desirable and worth more if you sell it, win win.
Noel
Quote from: Millietant on January 17, 2022, 03:05:59 AM
There's also the BT023 and BT023GT available from Bridgestone - I'm running a matched pair of BT023's (although I do have a FZR 1000 3.5" wide front wheel) and love them. :good2:
Dean, Bridgestone's have never even been on my radar, are they a tyre you'd ride the Nürburgring or the road at 10/10th's on?
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on January 17, 2022, 05:12:47 AM
Quote from: Millietant on January 17, 2022, 03:05:59 AM
There's also the BT023 and BT023GT available from Bridgestone - I'm running a matched pair of BT023's (although I do have a FZR 1000 3.5" wide front wheel) and love them. :good2:
Dean, Bridgestone's have never even been on my radar, are they a tyre you'd ride the Nürburgring or the road at 10/10th's on?
Noel
So far, yes Noel. I've done around 8k kms on the current pair and never had any issues. The front is wearing a bit thin on the edges now, but the rear looks perfect - but then again I avoid riding a straight line like the plague.
Having said that I also rode at 10/10ths around the Nurburgring on my FJ with BT45 crossplies on it and my brother couldn't keep up on his GSXR 750. They're all better tyres than I am a rider :sarcastic:
Quote from: Millietant on January 17, 2022, 03:05:59 AM
There's also the BT023 and BT023GT available from Bridgestone - I'm running a matched pair of BT023's (although I do have a FZR 1000 3.5" wide front wheel) and love them. :good2:
Yes, there are many other Sport-Touring oriented tires available. The list I made was of the latest premium rubber.
I know that the Metzeler Z8 and Z6, Michelin Road 5, Pilot Road 4, and Pilot Road 3, Dunlop Roadsmart 3 and Roadsmart 2, Continental Road Attack 3 and Road Attack 2, Bridgestone T31 and T30 tires are still available.
Fred
***YZF600R Rims*** FZR600 are NOT what you want! >> Dean already hit that one in his post! http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=20232.msg207109#msg207109 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=20232.msg207109#msg207109)
I'd suggest the full lot of the suspension tweaks from RPM - full rebuild for the forks with their valves and recommended springs and fork brace joined by their rear shock. You can do it all cheaper, you can do it all more expensive, you can do it all more complicated, but going with their tried and true setup will get you a very large increase in performance, nearly completely stock looking, and a "known" setup ready to go.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkR%2FBKit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkR%2FBKit)
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve)
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFS.85 (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFS.85)
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AForkBrace (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AForkBrace)
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMShock%2891-95%29 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMShock%2891-95%29)
Quote from: Flynt on January 16, 2022, 07:44:17 PM
....you're probably going to want the doubled up clutch spring if you get it making full power, otherwise it will slip at about 6K and WOT.
Frank
Frank, the guy below doesn't agree.
Quote from: Flynt on December 29, 2016, 10:26:12 AM
....who (correctly in my opinion) believes the FJ clutch was designed to handle full power from the stock engine... I believe the engineers at Yamaha did their job designing a great product.
Frank
Quote from: Millietant on January 16, 2022, 05:29:33 PM
Both Fred and I discussed the YZF 600 R (Thundercat) rear wheel, which not the FZR. I also mentioned that the 17" rear wheel from this 600 "matched" the FJ front wheel - I only meant in spoke design and type (i.e. Yamaha 3 spoke) and they're both 17" diameter.
Dean, isn't there considerable confusion over the whole FZR/YZF/R/RR designations depending on where in the world your referencing and isn't the Thundercat wheel different to the FZR? I had a hell of a time trying to get a sprocket first time round, the wheel I have is an FZR600R/RR (4JH)
Haha, nature has been kind and I've forgotten the details but I do still have a new brake rotor and sprocket in the cupboard for god knows what!
Noel
Quote from: Millietant on January 17, 2022, 05:59:22 AM
Quote from: ribbert on January 17, 2022, 05:12:47 AM
Quote from: Millietant on January 17, 2022, 03:05:59 AM
There's also the BT023 and BT023GT available from Bridgestone - I'm running a matched pair of BT023's (although I do have a FZR 1000 3.5" wide front wheel) and love them. :good2:
Dean, Bridgestone's have never even been on my radar, are they a tyre you'd ride the Nürburgring or the road at 10/10th's on?
Noel
So far, yes Noel. I've done around 8k kms on the current pair and never had any issues. The front is wearing a bit thin on the edges now, but the rear looks perfect - but then again I avoid riding a straight line like the plague.
Having said that I also rode at 10/10ths around the Nurburgring on my FJ with BT45 crossplies on it and my brother couldn't keep up on his GSXR 750. They're all better tyres than I am a rider :sarcastic:
Thanks for the feedback Dean, I had never considered them before.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on January 18, 2022, 04:31:45 AM
Quote from: Flynt on January 16, 2022, 07:44:17 PM
....you're probably going to want the doubled up clutch spring if you get it making full power, otherwise it will slip at about 6K and WOT.
Frank
Frank, the guy below doesn't agree.
Quote from: Flynt on December 29, 2016, 10:26:12 AM
... who (correctly in my opinion) believes the FJ clutch was designed to handle full power from the stock engine... I don't have proof otherwise and I believe the engineers at Yamaha did their job designing a great product. Still, a slipping stock clutch appears to be a pretty common outcome of tuning the FJ beyond stock power levels.
I have experienced 2 FJ's (my '90 and Wiz before the 1350) slipping after adding pods, timing advance, and jetting to get max power (both already had 4-1 pipes). I added the second spring and they were fixed.
Filled in the part you deleted... In my personal experience my 8.000 mile '90 slipped at 6K after carb clean and pod air filters, stuff that might happen to this bike pretty quickly as he gets it sorted. RPM had done so many double springs they immediately solved the issue. I was just trying to provide some potentially very valuable advice if he finds his clutch is slipping as he gets it running. Not sure what you're trying to do...
Frank
My 89 has pods and supertrap. Slippons open end. Sounds very good. Was slipping. At wot. Second spring cured it also. All my other bikes have Barnett pressure plates. Standard springs. Turbo will have heavy springs and falicon clutch basket. Have acquired several Barnett plates for future projects.
But like Noel said may not be necessary unless you start really enjoying all the fj torque and develop a heavy hand. :wacko3: like I have.
Yeah, you're right Noel, there's huge confusion but I'm not really sure why given that it's actually pretty simple :sarcastic:
Maybe it is the global referencing :good2: I only really know the Thundercat as the YZF 600 R, but if you read a lot about the bike, the Thundercat is often referred to as "a development of the FZR 600" and it's reported that they share many parts - unfortunately, the back wheel isn't one of them (neither is the front end).
Not sure of the year, but the FZR 1000 rear wheel is another choice but like the YZF 600 wheel needs machining to fit. It's also wider than the YZF at 5.5 inches. Still reckon the GSXR wheel is the easiest, no machining at all just add two 4mm washers and mount the torque arm.
Quote from: Bones on January 19, 2022, 12:39:46 AM
Not sure of the year, but the FZR 1000 rear wheel is another choice but like the YZF 600 wheel needs machining to fit. It's also wider than the YZF at 5.5 inches. Still reckon the GSXR wheel is the easiest, no machining at all just add two 4mm washers and mount the torque arm.
You're right Tony, I guarantee no one in the history of FJ's has ever walked up to one with a GSXR wheel and said "hey, hang on, that wheel's not genuine!" Truly not a soul would ever notice and your recommendation is spot on. I have the FZR600R/RR wheel because it came already mounted in the swingarm. If I was doing the conversion from scratch I would use the Suzuki wheel, it's so easy.
Noel
Quote from: Flynt on January 18, 2022, 11:11:46 AM
Not sure what you're trying to do...
Frank
My apologies Frank, just trying to add a bit of levity by having you answer yourself, but I can see how that would be confusing.
I am familiar with your low mileage, clutch slipping bike, I remember it well but I'm surprised you would a make a sweeping generalization from that single example. As an engineer you should know what a
faulty generalization fallacy is. The 8800mls your bike came with is more than enough to kill a clutch from misuse. Part of the diagnostic process for abnormal events is to establish how long the vehicle has been in the possession of the current owner, often it turns out it's relatively new to them. Unfamiliarity can play all sorts of tricks on the senses.
Frank, good on you for spruiking your buddy's business, but it's not the only way, getting an FJ to run at it's best is not some sort of black art and not everyone has deep pockets or lives nearby. I'm sure RPM do excellent work they're not the only choice.
I have a 1219 engine with 100 grams taken off the reciprocating parts, adjustable cams, valve shims milled for optimal, uniform clearances, ignition advance, pods, exhausts, anodised oil cooler fittings,18/41 gearing, low friction chain and perfectly set up carbies. As you know, the higher the gear, the higher the revs and the wider the throttle, the greater the load on the clutch. I can apply the "reserve grip function test" at say 8000rpm in 4th at WOT and there's a ton of reserve grip there. I check it periodically to keep an eye on clutch wear.
However, there is one thing that hasn't been addressed, if I changed to synthetic oil it would slip immediately. I know this because I did it accidentally and couldn't figure out why my clutch started slipping out of nowhere under the above described conditions. Changing the oil and cleaning the plates just wasn't quite enough so a new set of fibres (and mineral oil) and it's as good as new, that was probably 100k ago. Like you, there is rarely an outing where at some point it doesn't get rung out through the gears at WOT.
Good point Noel I do run synthetic oil in everything.(except during break in of course). But double spring or Barnett style plate cured that. I don't even notice the lever pull.
I want to thank everyone for their input. Since I last posted, I have -
*Removed the ABS, replaced all brake lines with braided, replaced the worn rear rotor, and replaced all brake pads with EBC HH.
*RPM rear shock
*Rebuilt the fork, replaced the springs, added an RPM damper, and fork brace.
*Repaired all stress cracks in the plastics. I simply used ABS plumbers solvent and it worked well.
*Added a GIVI mount for my trunk so I can simply switch it back and forth from my Super Tenere.
*New Pirelli Sport Demons
*RPM bar risers
*Lithium battery
*Everything greased and lubed
Left to do -
*Rebuild carbs
*Adjust valves
*Advance timing
*Seek out and destroy annoying plastic buzzes and rattles
*New rear wheel @ next tire change
I took my first spirited ride yesterday on one of my favorite Central Coast twisties, and it turns out this old man still has some knee draggin' left in him! Heck, I may even have a Buttonwillow track day left in me!
Thanks to all for the great input, and to RPM for the outstanding customer service.
So, in other words, you've embraced the moditis, joined Modifiers Anonymous with a lifetime membership (like several of us here), and are well on your way to learning to live with it, eh?
George D in SE Mi (for now)
'89FJ12
:Facepalm:
Woohoo! Another FJ sharpened up and ready to give the younger bikes hell for decades to come!
Outstanding!
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on February 07, 2022, 10:29:45 AM
... and replaced all brake pads with EBC HH.
Good stuff with all the work to date... you've gotta be loving the changes. One fine point for consideration... the HH pads are excellent for the front, but if you use the rear brake much you might find them very hard to modulate on the rear, in my opinion at least. I use the rear brake quite a bit, especially if I'm riding in a spirited fashion, and found that it was too easy to lock the rear when trail braking... a little bumpiness, ramping up front brake pressure too quickly, etc. and I'd momentarily lock the rear on occasion. Actually it only happened a couple times before I went to the organic rear pads and problem solved! They are much more forgiving IMHO...
As you ramp up your riding again, you might find the rear would be happier with organic pads... or maybe not. Lots of people use HH on the rear and don't complain.
Frank
Thanks for the input on the HH's. Have read that as well. At this point, I simply have a lot of freeplay adjusted into the rear brake but will heed your advice if it's an issue. I still use a lot of rear brake on my dirtbikes, but it'll be a while before I get the cajones to get back into that world on the street.
Quote from: Bones on January 19, 2022, 12:39:46 AM
Not sure of the year, but the FZR 1000 rear wheel is another choice but like the YZF 600 wheel needs machining to fit. It's also wider than the YZF at 5.5 inches. Still reckon the GSXR wheel is the easiest, no machining at all just add two 4mm washers and mount the torque arm.
The YZF 600 wheel itself doesn't need any machining. The caliper mount needs 8mm taking off it at the pivot area, but that can be done by hand if done carefully, or machined if you have access to a mill. :good2:
I chose the YZF because I didn't want the expense of buying an extra caliper, torque arm, brake hoses (my existing FJ braided stainless line fitted) and getting a proper torque arm mounting sorted (I'm not a fan of using the cantilevered forest hanger bolt).
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on February 07, 2022, 10:29:45 AM
I want to thank everyone for their input. Since I last posted, I have -
*Removed the ABS, replaced all brake lines with braided, replaced the worn rear rotor, and replaced all brake pads with EBC HH.
*RPM rear shock
*Rebuilt the fork, replaced the springs, added an RPM damper, and fork brace.
*Repaired all stress cracks in the plastics. I simply used ABS plumbers solvent and it worked well.
*Added a GIVI mount for my trunk so I can simply switch it back and forth from my Super Tenere.
*New Pirelli Sport Demons
*RPM bar risers
*Lithium battery
*Everything greased and lubed
Left to do -
*Rebuild carbs
*Adjust valves
*Advance timing
*Seek out and destroy annoying plastic buzzes and rattles
*New rear wheel @ next tire change
I took my first spirited ride yesterday on one of my favorite Central Coast twisties, and it turns out this old man still has some knee draggin' left in him! Heck, I may even have a Buttonwillow track day left in me!
Thanks to all for the great input, and to RPM for the outstanding customer service.
I'm sure your FJ with those mods is capable of surprising many much younger bikes on a track day. Mine does so regularly on the road - there are a couple of GSXR 1000 riders we know who are not embarrassed to admit to this :sarcastic: :sarcastic:
Quote from: Flynt on February 08, 2022, 10:41:17 AM
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on February 07, 2022, 10:29:45 AM
... and replaced all brake pads with EBC HH.
Good stuff with all the work to date... you've gotta be loving the changes. One fine point for consideration... the HH pads are excellent for the front, but if you use the rear brake much you might find them very hard to modulate on the rear, in my opinion at least. I use the rear brake quite a bit, especially if I'm riding in a spirited fashion, and found that it was too easy to lock the rear when trail braking... a little bumpiness, ramping up front brake pressure too quickly, etc. and I'd momentarily lock the rear on occasion. Actually it only happened a couple times before I went to the organic rear pads and problem solved! They are much more forgiving IMHO...
As you ramp up your riding again, you might find the rear would be happier with organic pads... or maybe not. Lots of people use HH on the rear and don't complain.
Frank
Frank makes an excellent point, the standard rear brake is way too sensitive and made worse with HH pads and worse again with a braided line. I remember clearly the circumstances he describes such as bumpiness making it difficult to modulate with any fine control when riding hard.
Frank has offered one solution, mine was to opt for a smaller rotor and retain the rubber hose. The hose option is a good one (in conjunction with other options) because it softens the pedal.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/2806/12047526724_daa383e235_b.jpg)
I doubt much of this will bother you though unless you're riding fairly hard.
Noel
Quote from: Millietant on February 08, 2022, 01:06:10 PMI'm sure your FJ with those mods is capable of surprising many much younger bikes on a track day. Mine does so regularly on the road - there are a couple of GSXR 1000 riders we know who are not embarrassed to admit to this :sarcastic: :sarcastic:
Everyone who has ridden both finds it easier to go faster on my FJ1200 than on my 998.
My '89 FJ1200 has the factory 17x3 front wheel and Traxxion/RaceTech valves, springs, oil, and spacers in the front forks, with a YZF600R 17x5 rear wheel and a Penske shock in back. It rides like a magic carpet on rough roads, it's more taut and responsive on smooth roads, and with the rear ride height raised on the Penske and wearing modern sport-touring radials it flicks over pretty effortlessly on a corner entry, and you can tighten or broaden your line mid-corner.
I found a set of FJR or FZ1 calipers and a master cylinder assembly (I forget) for less than just FJ brake pads would have cost. It would have been worthwhile just for getting rid of the mushy factory FJ master cylinder, but with the better calipers and master cylinder it'll do everything it can do with two fingers on the lever - squall the front tire, lift the rear tire, or both at once. It's a delight.
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on February 07, 2022, 10:29:45 AM
*Seek out and destroy annoying plastic buzzes and rattles
I can't believe no one's told you the best part of owning a late model FJ - the rubber mounted motor. Forget about chasing rattles and buzzes, just service the engine mounts (100% of them are seized) and enjoy one of the smoothest in line 4's you'll ever experience.
When you have them apart you'll notice a rebate around the centre of the bush, as if it were made for greasing. I installed these.....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_b.jpg)
......and once a year expel all the old grease with new, works a treat. The rebate allows the grease to flow right around the bush before pressure starts pushing it out the sides.
Noel
Quote from: Bill_Rockoff on February 09, 2022, 07:37:48 AM
Quote from: Millietant on February 08, 2022, 01:06:10 PMI'm sure your FJ with those mods is capable of surprising many much younger bikes on a track day. Mine does so regularly on the road - there are a couple of GSXR 1000 riders we know who are not embarrassed to admit to this :sarcastic: :sarcastic:
Everyone who has ridden both finds it easier to go faster on my FJ1200 than on my 998.
My '89 FJ1200 has the factory 17x3 front wheel and Traxxion/RaceTech valves, springs, oil, and spacers in the front forks, with a YZF600R 17x5 rear wheel and a Penske shock in back. It rides like a magic carpet on rough roads, it's more taut and responsive on smooth roads, and with the rear ride height raised on the Penske and wearing modern sport-touring radials it flicks over pretty effortlessly on a corner entry, and you can tighten or broaden your line mid-corner.
I found a set of FJR or FZ1 calipers and a master cylinder assembly (I forget) for less than just FJ brake pads would have cost. It would have been worthwhile just for getting rid of the mushy factory FJ master cylinder, but with the better calipers and master cylinder it'll do everything it can do with two fingers on the lever - squall the front tire, lift the rear tire, or both at once. It's a delight.
You couldn't be more right about the brakes Bill - I've got the added bonus of 320mm discs to add to the equation and with a YZF 600 rear wheel just like you, I like the smaller diameter rotor that comes with it :good2:
Quote from: ribbert on February 09, 2022, 07:55:00 AM
Quote from: BackInDaSaddle on February 07, 2022, 10:29:45 AM
*Seek out and destroy annoying plastic buzzes and rattles
I can't believe no one's told you the best part of owning a late model FJ - the rubber mounted motor. Forget about chasing rattles and buzzes, just service the engine mounts (100% of them are seized) and enjoy one of the smoothest in line 4's you'll ever experience.
When you have them apart you'll notice a rebate around the centre of the bush, as if it were made for greasing. I installed these.....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_b.jpg)
......and once a year expel all the old grease with new, works a treat. The rebate allows the grease to flow right around the bush before pressure starts pushing it out the sides.
Noel
+1 to the grease nipple on the later models.