Hello All-
1986 FJ1200, just under 60K miles, stock motor, Supertrapp4-1 exhaust. Generally bulletproof and no troubles. Unfortunately been sitting a few months, been maybe 6 months since a real ride. Premium gas only. So, past few days I've been starting it and letting it warm up, run for a bit, not riding though. Difficult starting, takes a while to fire, then feels like it's running on three cylinders, "bumpy", and balky acceleration. Today, started up, balky to start. After about 8 minutes of rough idle, I opened up the throttle gradually, revved a few times, revved it up to about 4000rpm, and it starts coughing up dark smoke and tiny black carbonized particles out the exhaust. This continues, each acceleration results in more and more particles and more dark smoke than I've ever seen it emit. HOWEVER, the idle smoothed out considerably, acceleration much smoother, now sounds like it's firing all four. Particles feel slightly flaky, black, like carbonized tiny flakes, very slightly oily. I'm hoping it's just varnish and carbon buildup from the carbs and cylinders that finally burned up and blew out? As I said, now running much better but I thought I'd better ask smarter people than me... What say you? :Facepalm:
Quote from: AskDoctorDay on November 21, 2021, 03:52:28 PM
Hello All-
1986 FJ1200, just under 60K miles, stock motor, Supertrapp4-1 exhaust. Generally bulletproof and no troubles. Unfortunately been sitting a few months, been maybe 6 months since a real ride. Premium gas only. So, past few days I've been starting it and letting it warm up, run for a bit, not riding though. Difficult starting, takes a while to fire, then feels like it's running on three cylinders, "bumpy", and balky acceleration. Today, started up, balky to start. After about 8 minutes of rough idle, I opened up the throttle gradually, revved a few times, revved it up to about 4000rpm, and it starts coughing up dark smoke and tiny black carbonized particles out the exhaust. This continues, each acceleration results in more and more particles and more dark smoke than I've ever seen it emit. HOWEVER, the idle smoothed out considerably, acceleration much smoother, now sounds like it's firing all four. Particles feel slightly flaky, black, like carbonized tiny flakes, very slightly oily. I'm hoping it's just varnish and carbon buildup from the carbs and cylinders that finally burned up and blew out? As I said, now running much better but I thought I'd better ask smarter people than me... What say you? :Facepalm:
Ride it harder...
Eric,
Sounds like bad gas. I'd say drain the bike gas tank completely, and get a gas-can. Add a can (pint) of Seafoam, then fill the gas-can with non-ethanol gasoline. Fill the bike gas tank from the new supply of fresh fuel/Seafoam.
Run the bike at least 15 minutes a day for a few days, then take the bike out for a long-duration ride, staying close to home. See how that goes. Seafoam is magic stuff, but it is not instant magic. Give it a few days to work its' magic. I run non-ethanol gas only in my 1985 FJ1100.
In the USA and Canada, you can get non-ethanol gas from the places listed here:
www.pure-gas.org (http://www.pure-gas.org)
I would highlight and Copy/Paste your local list into a text document, and keep a paper copy handy on the bike, but that's just me.
.
Red's advise is great..... I would change it just a bit. :flag_of_truce:
Drain the tank, start the bike and let it run until it dies from fuel starvation. Fill the tank with fresh Non-Ethonal fuel. Buy a can/bottle of BG 44k Fuel system cleaner. (Auto zone, O'Reilly's, Walmart, Amazon and other retail establishments carry it). Pour the amount that is recommended and run the engine everyday and ride as much as possible to use up that tank of fuel. The bike should run much better after about 1/2 of the tank is used.
Once the whole tank of fuel is used, refill with fresh fuel and add the appropriate amount of Seafoam or Stabil too the fuel. Run the bike for about 10 minutes and you should be golden.
https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-44k-fuel-system-cleaner/ (https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-44k-fuel-system-cleaner/)
Fred
Thank you guys, I will follow your sage advice. I appreciate the help very much. As a follow-up, I did take the beast out for a spin yesterday afternoon and it was running better after blowing out all that crud. I'll treat the fuel and run it through the motor.
Thanks again!
So now that you are on the throttle, care to share where in LA you like to ride? We have a long weekend coming up and time to ride a few roads and meet new members if you like.
Quote from: AskDoctorDay on November 22, 2021, 12:16:11 PM
Thank you guys, I will follow your sage advice. I appreciate the help very much. As a follow-up, I did take the beast out for a spin yesterday afternoon and it was running better after blowing out all that crud. I'll treat the fuel and run it through the motor.
Thanks again!
I'm staying with just ride it... If you add a pint of Techron and top up fuel with Chevron premium, I predict it will be running wonderfully after about 1/2 tank. I've used the stuff Fred suggests and am sure it does a great job too, but it creates a huge cloud of white smoke when fogged into the intake of a fuel injected engine... I don't know if it does the same as a fuel additive, but if so you're going to doing a James Bond smokescreen kind of thing as you ride.
In my experience, you can smell bad gas. If it still smells normal it's fine. If you get overtones of varnish it should be drained... otherwise just ride through it and fill up with fresh. I do the Techron thing every spring on my carburated vehicles and it seems to keep things pretty clean. I also don't do anything special heading into winter other than fill the tanks and put the batteries on a tender. I think the fuel can make it through a winter without a stabilizer... especially an LA winter that might last 3-4 days before it's time to ride again.
Let the discussion begin...
Frank
Quote from: FJmonkey on November 22, 2021, 01:01:08 PM
So now that you are on the throttle, care to share where in LA you like to ride? We have a long weekend coming up and time to ride a few roads and meet new members if you like.
Hi- Well, I live south of Los Angeles in San Pedro. Mostly nowadays I ride in an area called the Palos Verdes peninsula. When I can get up there I like to ride in teh Santa Monica Mountains, Calabasas, on a road called the Mulholland Highway. (It's where all the big fires were a few years back). I really dislike city riding so I'll get on the Pacific Coast Highway near the water as well. Let me know if you're down this way!
Quote from: Flynt on November 22, 2021, 07:31:19 PM
Quote from: AskDoctorDay on November 22, 2021, 12:16:11 PM
Thank you guys, I will follow your sage advice. I appreciate the help very much. As a follow-up, I did take the beast out for a spin yesterday afternoon and it was running better after blowing out all that crud. I'll treat the fuel and run it through the motor.
Thanks again!
I'm staying with just ride it...
Let the discussion begin...
Frank
I tend to agree with this, I think you're looking for a solution to a problem that maybe doesn't exist (based on what you describe). If I wanted to get an old multi carby engine to run like shit I would start it daily, on choke, let it idle then shut it down and do the same the next day and the day after that.... Raising the revs or blipping the throttle is not the same as load, like when you're riding it and getting temps up.
If you live somewhere that requires putting the bike away for the Winter, prep it (if you want), push it to the back of the garage and leave it be until next season. Think of it as hibernation.
I know the idea of starting your bike up daily and warming it up without riding sounds like a good idea but it's not. Engines are engineered for operating temps, not start up temps, that's why race engines are pre heated, they would seize if started at ambient temperature. 90% of your engine wear happens on a cold start and one thing high mileage engines always have in common is a high mileage /cold start ratio, starting the bike without riding it makes that ratio zero.
Ride it, or don't!
Noel (IMO)
I'm 100% with Noel on this, starting the bike up and then letting it idle for 8 minutes while you think its misfiring, or not firing, on 1 cylinder is just doing more harm than good. Also, starting the bike up and then letting it idle for that length of time, even when blipping the throttle, is doing more harm than good. When I first read your post and you mentioned "acceleration", I thought you were riding the bike, but then I realised you meant increasing the revs and I'm afraid doing this doesn't really help either.
As others have said, just keep riding it regularly, getting it up to temperature properly, or store it properly.
I tend to ride all year round, but the bike can be parked for a month or so from time to time (with E10 fuel in it, as we don't E0 fuel available at "gas stations" here these days), so every time I think this is going to happen, I treat a tank of fuel with a stabiliser, or system cleaner and run it for about 20 miles before parking it up. In the past I've used Wurth Fuel Stabiliser, Forte Power 1 and Forte Power 2 and right now, I'm going treat my fuel to the correct dose of "Mechanic in a Bottle" before I park up for the next, expected month or so long stint.
I have a ride out with my buddies on the 5th December and after that I reckon she'll be parked until mid January, so my last fill up on the ride up will include fuel treatment, just to be on the safe side.
I'm glad you seem to have gotten everything sorted now and hope to see more posts from you with ride info and bike info........and we all LOVE photo's (hint, hint). :sarcastic: :sarcastic:
Also, a by-product of starting and idling is water. Unless the exhaust system is fully brought up to operating temps water can accumulate in the lowest part of the exhaust system. This water is acidic and is the reason why exhaust systems, and in particular collection boxes/joints, rust out on low mileage bikes.
Eric,
Lots of good information above, but try to relax here. Replacing the gasoline, some carb cleaner, and giving the process a few days and some short runs (to a good warm-up state) will certainly not be recommended as a frequent or long-term practice. Once in a blue moon though, that should not be a cause for any concern. You may never see this happen again.
If you have any recurrence of the problem, such as poor performance and flakey emissions, then you may want to dive deeper into the problem.
Keep us posted. :yes:
Quote from: krusty on November 23, 2021, 08:25:14 PM
Also, a by-product of starting and idling is water. Unless the exhaust system is fully brought up to operating temps water can accumulate in the lowest part of the exhaust system. This water is acidic and is the reason why exhaust systems, and in particular collection boxes/joints, rust out on low mileage bikes.
Excellent point Krusty, everyone is familiar with the vapour/dripping water from car exhausts in traffic. An equally destructive problem is condensation, I doubt there's a guy here who hasn't at some stage had a car exhaust rust through on the top of that bend that goes over the rear axle, where the exhaust pipe is cooler and is the highest point. It's also why most mufflers have a little drain hole in them, to drain off the accumulated water Krusty speaks of.
(https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clublexus.com-vbulletin/512x321/wh4_4555577620c91ad4cbee8cc939b00f77278f547a.jpg)
With much of the membership stowing their bikes for Winter, it might make a good discussion to share tips on how you go about it. If not against forum rules or the law, perhaps even mention how you get your fix off-season.
Noel
My off-season fix is usually my mountain bike Noel.
This year has been a bit of a bust with my hip issues, but I've gotten hold of a chipped e-MTB, so will be using that.
Otherwise, I'm in the garage working on projects, with the TV on, playing old VHS tape's and DVD's of bike racing, rider bio's and my favourite films........... with the occasional "libation".
This winter I expect I'll be spending plenty of time at the machine shop, playing with their toys :sarcastic:
Quote from: ribbert on November 24, 2021, 03:49:34 AMhow you get your fix off-season.
Noel
Snow skiing! It's 40+ mph with just sticks on your feet when you want it and very technical and demanding terrain to challenge even the bravest. We take camper on back of 4wd truck with dogs. Ski morning, lunch and playtime with dogs, then a few runs in the afternoon. Get dinner on the way home and you've had a day!
It's a "carving" sport very similar to motorcycling I believe... bicycling and waterskiing too. I'm intrigued by the battery powered hydrofoil surfboards...
https://windfoilzone.com/what-is-foil-surfing/ (https://windfoilzone.com/what-is-foil-surfing/)
Looks like ultimate carving experience, but quite pricey. I see a few folks doing it on the lake by us. One day maybe...
Frank
What Flynt said^^^^. Take up ski racing through the gates for a thrill. By the way, Flynt, Do you ski at Mt Bachelor? Was there twice when My son lived in Salem. Great mountain compared to the stuff I ski in PA.
Quote from: Motofun on November 25, 2021, 06:53:17 AMDo you ski at Mt Bachelor?
Yes, although we also hit Mt Hood Meadows last year. I don't race and try not to ski too fast on the groomers, preferring a nice steep and deep experience with less risk of high speed fall. Bachelor has plenty of all types of terrain and is 1.5hrs door to door from home... with some nice dinner stops along the way.
Getting a slow start on the snow out here in PNW... I hope it turns around soon. Flip side is that the riding's still good with mild and dry weather. I'd rather be skiing next month however.
Frank
Just an update- thanks to all for your sage advice. I ran fresh gas with Seafoam additive- what a difference. Still cleaning out the last bits but a huge improvement. Thanks so much for the tips!!
Awesome :good2:
Thanks for closing the loop - might just help the next guy get his sorted too!