Hi gang. Long time. I've had some personal issues that have kept me away from the FJ and the forum. Recently, I've decided to dive back into the bike.
We've had an intermittent elec short in the ign circuit. I "think", hope, pray that I've finally gotten that one fingered out. Looks like the clamshell for the Run/Stop and Starter buttons were squeezing the wires for the Run/Stop switch.
Now it is burning out the Main 30 Amp fuse. This brown wire seems to be the wire shorting out. When I disconnect it, no short. The problem is also highly intermittent. Just now, I got on for a ride and the fuse popped. Then I took off the slave and alternator cover, wiggled and inspected wires. My diagnostic circuit breaker held so I put it back together. Got dressed again, climbed on, turned the ign switch and the main circuit was dead. Undress (you know what I mean) take stuff apart. Side cover off,, still popping.. Slave off, still popping. Loosen alt cover bolts, popping. Then remove a couple bolts, breaker holds. Put bolts back in, breaker holds. Can't figure out what's going on. Only mod under the alt cover is the RPM voltage reg. I did that 2-3 years ago when the original regulator failed. So I'm kinda stumped. If the brown wire shorts out, does that imply the alternator is shorted internally? A wire shorting to ground? Something else.
Been over a couple years since I posted. I don't remember how to properly install text between photos so please excuse my newbieness.newbie essay.
Speaking of newbie mistakes. I did the incredible mistake of starting the engine with the slave cyl off. Yep, oil everywhere and the pushrod shot out. Now I don't remember whether the round end is out or the squared off end is out.
Thank you everyone for reading and any guidance you can provide.
Joe
Forgot one pic.
That clutch pushrod pic is right - round end into the slave cylinder. Flat end gives a flat surface for the ball to run against. :good:
Quote from: fj1289 on October 02, 2021, 05:21:36 PM
That clutch pushrod pic is right - round end into the slave cylinder. Flat end gives a flat surface for the ball to run against. :good:
Thank you
Hey Joe.......Welcome back......you HAVE been missed.
Hope things have settled in your life now and you can enjoy FJ life once again.
Sorry I can't help with the electrics, but as Chris has already mentioned, at least you have the clutch pushrod back in the correct way round. :good2:
Quote from: Millietant on October 02, 2021, 09:25:42 PM
Hey Joe.......Welcome back......you HAVE been missed.
Hope things have settled in your life now and you can enjoy FJ life once again.
Sorry I can't help with the electrics, but as Chris has already mentioned, at least you have the clutch pushrod back in the correct way round. :good2:
Thanks Dean.
I fired up the engine this evening after replacing the slave and alternator cover. Even with my abysmal hearing, I can hear noise from inside the cover. Kinda sounds like rotating loose bearing noise. Should the alternator be whisper quiet?
Quote from: Tuned forks on October 02, 2021, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: Millietant on October 02, 2021, 09:25:42 PM
Hey Joe.......Welcome back......you HAVE been missed.
Hope things have settled in your life now and you can enjoy FJ life once again.
Sorry I can't help with the electrics, but as Chris has already mentioned, at least you have the clutch pushrod back in the correct way round. :good2:
Thanks Dean.
I fired up the engine this evening after replacing the slave and alternator cover. Even with my abysmal hearing, I can hear noise from inside the cover. Kinda sounds like rotating loose bearing noise. Should the alternator be whisper quiet?
The alternator is quiet, what you are probably hearing is the starter clutch chain.
Fred
Well maybe you're correct Fred. Just sounds like a growling noise. There's a big short somewhere. This morning it shorted again (problem is intermittent). So I disconnected the big red wire at the same two wire connector as the brown wire. Disconnecting the red wire has no effect on the short. Disconnecting the brown wire does eliminate the short.
Continuing to diagnose this issue.
Joe, on your 1990 the red wire is the main power wire that carries the charging current from your generator to your battery.
The brown wire is known as the field wire.
This wire carries the battery voltage from the battery to your voltage regulator. This voltage is needed to signal your voltage regulator how much charging current to send your battery. When this wire has a bad connection or an intermittent fault, the battery voltage signal drops off and your voltage regulator thinks your battery needs more charging current....even though your battery may be fully charged.
With a bad field wire (brown wire) it is not uncommon for the main fuse to blow.
Your generator is going full tilt boogie in its output.
Don't give up, I suspect you are close.
Pat
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 03, 2021, 02:00:44 PM
Joe, on your 1990 the red wire is the main power wire that carries the charging current from your generator to your battery.
The brown wire is known as the field wire.
This wire carries the battery voltage from the battery to your voltage regulator. This voltage is needed to signal your voltage regulator how much charging current to send your battery. When this wire has a bad connection or an intermittent fault, the battery voltage signal drops off and your voltage regulator thinks your battery needs more charging current....even though your battery may be fully charged.
With a bad field wire (brown wire) it is not uncommon for the main fuse to blow.
Your generator is going full tilt boogie in its output.
Don't give up, I suspect you are close.
Pat
This morning the short came back. Last night nuttin'. This morning, short city. So I confirmed what you wrote Pat. Red wire is constant hot. Brown wire is switched hot. Loosening the alt cover bolts causes the short to stop. Retightening the bolts will eventually (but not immediately) cause the short to come back. I took some cell phone pictures and then zoomed in. Very helpful for eyes that don't focus as well anymore. This circled area looks suspicious. I was able to get a voltage signal there with my multimeter so there was definitely a break or puncture in the shrink wrap. So I slathered on some liquid PVC. It's drying now. I may look into whether the mount for the OE voltage regulator can come off. Maybe that old mount is squeezing the shrink wrap against the alternator cover?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 03, 2021, 02:00:44 PM
Joe, on your 1990 the red wire is the main power wire that carries the charging current from your generator to your battery.
The brown wire is known as the field wire.
This wire carries the battery voltage from the battery to your voltage regulator. This voltage is needed to signal your voltage regulator how much charging current to send your battery. When this wire has a bad connection or an intermittent fault, the battery voltage signal drops off and your voltage regulator thinks your battery needs more charging current....even though your battery may be fully charged.
With a bad field wire (brown wire) it is not uncommon for the main fuse to blow.
Your generator is going full tilt boogie in its output.
Don't give up, I suspect you are close.
Pat
Oh, BTW, good to see you on the board Pat.
The charging system is cooking away to the tune of 13.2V.
Yes, welcome back Joe :hi:
Quote from: Tuned forks on October 03, 2021, 02:23:58 PM
The charging system is cooking away to the tune of 13.2V.
Not much charging current there at 13.2v.
Take a resting voltage read at your battery, see it it's fully charged.
12.80 volts or greater....................... 100%
12.60 volts ..................................... 75%
12.30 volts ..................................... 50%
12.0 volts................................................... 25%
If your battery resting voltage is less than 12.60 volts, your charging current should be 14.4 volts or higher.
First things first, take care of that short.
Quote from: Tuned forks on October 03, 2021, 02:21:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 03, 2021, 02:00:44 PM
Joe, on your 1990 the red wire is the main power wire that carries the charging current from your generator to your battery.
The brown wire is known as the field wire.
This wire carries the battery voltage from the battery to your voltage regulator. This voltage is needed to signal your voltage regulator how much charging current to send your battery. When this wire has a bad connection or an intermittent fault, the battery voltage signal drops off and your voltage regulator thinks your battery needs more charging current….even though your battery may be fully charged.
With a bad field wire (brown wire) it is not uncommon for the main fuse to blow.
Your generator is going full tilt boogie in its output.
Don’t give up, I suspect you are close.
Pat
This morning the short came back. Last night nuttin'. This morning, short city. So I confirmed what you wrote Pat. Red wire is constant hot. Brown wire is switched hot. Loosening the alt cover bolts causes the short to stop. Retightening the bolts will eventually (but not immediately) cause the short to come back. I took some cell phone pictures and then zoomed in. Very helpful for eyes that don't focus as well anymore. This circled area looks suspicious. I was able to get a voltage signal there with my multimeter so there was definitely a break or puncture in the shrink wrap. So I slathered on some liquid PVC. It's drying now. I may look into whether the mount for the OE voltage regulator can come off. Maybe that old mount is squeezing the shrink wrap against the alternator cover?
Both those marks circled weren’t on the top photos of that heat shrink.
Looks like more squishing has been going on while you’ve been at this.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 03, 2021, 03:20:32 PM
Yes, welcome back Joe :hi:
Quote from: Tuned forks on October 03, 2021, 02:23:58 PM
The charging system is cooking away to the tune of 13.2V.
Not much charging current there at 13.2v.
Take a resting voltage read at your battery, see it it's fully charged.
12.80 volts or greater....................... 100%
12.60 volts ..................................... 75%
12.30 volts ..................................... 50%
12.0 volts................................................... 25%
If your battery resting voltage is less than 12.60 volts, your charging current should be 14.4 volts or higher.
First things first, take care of that short.
I have 11.93V. Looks like a battery is in my future.
Quote from: Sparky84 on October 03, 2021, 03:42:54 PM
Quote from: Tuned forks on October 03, 2021, 02:21:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 03, 2021, 02:00:44 PM
Joe, on your 1990 the red wire is the main power wire that carries the charging current from your generator to your battery.
The brown wire is known as the field wire.
This wire carries the battery voltage from the battery to your voltage regulator. This voltage is needed to signal your voltage regulator how much charging current to send your battery. When this wire has a bad connection or an intermittent fault, the battery voltage signal drops off and your voltage regulator thinks your battery needs more charging current....even though your battery may be fully charged.
With a bad field wire (brown wire) it is not uncommon for the main fuse to blow.
Your generator is going full tilt boogie in its output.
Don't give up, I suspect you are close.
Pat
This morning the short came back. Last night nuttin'. This morning, short city. So I confirmed what you wrote Pat. Red wire is constant hot. Brown wire is switched hot. Loosening the alt cover bolts causes the short to stop. Retightening the bolts will eventually (but not immediately) cause the short to come back. I took some cell phone pictures and then zoomed in. Very helpful for eyes that don't focus as well anymore. This circled area looks suspicious. I was able to get a voltage signal there with my multimeter so there was definitely a break or puncture in the shrink wrap. So I slathered on some liquid PVC. It's drying now. I may look into whether the mount for the OE voltage regulator can come off. Maybe that old mount is squeezing the shrink wrap against the alternator cover?
Both those marks circled weren't on the top photos of that heat shrink.
Looks like more squishing has been going on while you've been at this.
Oh poop! You're correct. Damn! I thought I found the problem.
If your alternator is only putting out 13.2 volts I would put your battery on a charger and re check it later before you shit can it.
Good idea.
So it sounds like something is getting squished when you're putting the cover back on...
Notice the compressed black wire, looks like it was pancaked?
If that's what's happening, here's what I would do....
As everyone here knows, I'm not a fan of the internal voltage regulators, both oem and aftermarket.
Sooooo Wait for it....
I would do the remote Transpo voltage regulator mod. Get all that stuff out of that hot shakey environment.
Yes sir. I remember your fondness for that voltage regulator.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 03, 2021, 03:20:32 PM
Yes, welcome back Joe :hi:
Quote from: Tuned forks on October 03, 2021, 02:23:58 PM
The charging system is cooking away to the tune of 13.2V.
Not much charging current there at 13.2v.
Take a resting voltage read at your battery, see it it's fully charged.
12.80 volts or greater....................... 100%
12.60 volts ..................................... 75%
12.30 volts ..................................... 50%
12.0 volts................................................... 25%
If your battery resting voltage is less than 12.60 volts, your charging current should be 14.4 volts or higher.
First things first, take care of that short.
Mr Conlon and Mr Legg were correct. Last week with it's warmer temperatures, the 11.93V battery was fine.
Now the temperatures have plummeted to mid to high forties in the morning. The old battery would not start the engine.
So off to NAPA I went for a new AGM battery. 12.25V out of the box, literally. Cranks over like an engine possessed. Charges to 14.3V.
Not the source of my shorting issues but I wanted to give credit to Mr's C & L and show other members the effect temperature has on batteries. Particularly borderline batteries.
Quote from: Tuned forks on October 08, 2021, 09:36:48 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 03, 2021, 03:20:32 PM
Not the source of my shorting issues but I wanted to give credit to Mr's C & L and show other members the effect temperature has on batteries. Particularly borderline batteries.
Not just temperature but bad connections as well. I thought the battery in my car was on the way out because of slow cranking in the mornings, turns out it wasn't the battery at all, just a quick disconnect terminal I had fitted that wasn't making good contact. Replaced it with a standard terminal and now starts as fast as ever.