On vintage goldwings step #1 is to change the timing belts.
Then check the lower frame around the center stand for rust.
Is there anything FJ specific I need to check?
I have a new back tire coming as the one on her is weather cracked on the side walls.
Going to change the oil as well.
Valve clearances are a must.
Carb synch (AFTER valves is a should)
Spark plugs - they are a consumable after all
Forget what year you have - safety wire the petcock is a must for the early years (I think)
A fresh battery would be nice (can masquerade as ignition troubles)
Chain and sprockets if they are anything other than top of the line and in new condition (you have now idea how the PO may have treated them - much much cheaper than engine case when it lets go - your leg should heal with more time than money though)
Check lower frame rail bolts/fasteners. My last purchase of my 89' had a missing bolt. Some reported finding them broken/missing. Prior to 89', safety wire the petcock. Check the reddish/brown 2 pin connector on the left side near the side of the battery. This tends to melt internally, not easy to see till you open it. Check valves, change the fuel filter if 89+. Check the chain and sprockets. A broken chain can mean a broken case or personal injury. Many more common things to check.
tks guys.
Mine is an 86.
I'm making a list now. :)
and reading up on safety wiring the petcock..
Please edit your profile to list your FJ as an 86'. This will eliminate answers that don't apply to your model. As an after thought, service your forks. They were crappy when new, who knows how old the oil is or if some has left forks.
Quote from: 5speed on May 04, 2021, 05:28:42 PMtks guys. Mine is an 86. I'm making a list now. :)
and reading up on safety wiring the petcock..
5speed,
The safety wire does not secure any bolts of fasteners. It keeps the angled fuel fitting from leaving the petcock body, because the fitting is only held in place by sealant, which can get old and then fail. Engine fires (even complete bike incineration) could happen if the fitting gets free and dumps raw gas on your hot engine. It is easy to add the safety wire needed to keep things safe. Check pix:
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A36Y-24500-01 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A36Y-24500-01)
The kickstand safety switch.
Quote from: T Legg on May 04, 2021, 10:23:18 PM
The kickstand safety switch.
Good call Travis, how are them ribs doing?
Pretty good Mark. Just got back from a sixty mile after work evening ride. My clavicle is still messed up but there is no discomfort while riding.
Okay. just came in from the shed...I have questions. :scratch_one-s_head:
The elbow will spin in the pet cock..I'm guessing it isn't suppose to?
I couldn't pull it out.
This leads me to my next question.
Does it look like someone has been there and routed the gas line the wrong way? It wasn't anywhere near that shield on the right carb which I'm assuming is the way it is suppose to go.
and I just noticed the sticker telling you how to route the fuel line.. :pardon: MY caffeine level must be down.
And that leads me back to the petcock elbow. Is it suppose to be vertical or horizontal? :shok:
and last question..there was no hose hooked to that nipple which I'm assuming is a vent?
(https://i.imgur.com/tvBuJrLl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IgmNNHvl.jpg)
went back out to the shed because the schematic for the tank shows a hose coming from that small nipple and I know there wasn't one hooked to it when I picked the tank up to unhook the fuel line.
It's there..so whomever was there before not only cut approx 6" of fuel line off the hose from the petcock to the t, they didn't hook the vacuum line back up. It's a wonder the bike even started..
The small line that is not hooked to anything in the second photo goes to the petcock. It looks like the PO had the petcock in backwords as the fuel hose should not loop around like that.
The elbow is at like a 20* angle or so. It is neither vertical or horizontal to the flange.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on May 05, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
The small line that is not hooked to anything in the second photo goes to the petcock. It looks like the PO had the petcock in backwords as the fuel hose should not loop around like that.
The elbow is at like a 20* angle or so. It is neither vertical or horizontal to the flange.
they definitely cut some off the fuel hose as the end isn't square.
should I be concerned that the elbow spins in the petcock housing?
I ordered the rebuild kit for it from you. Got it out..might as well freshen it up.
The elbow should not move at all. Personally, I would replace the entire unit. Some people have suggested JB weld or something of the sort before but I figure for $126 it breaks down to around $4 a year to get a new one since the bikes are 30+ years old at this point.
Money well spent to not have a flaming moto, IMO
:good2:
Quote from: RPM - Robert on May 05, 2021, 03:54:43 PM
The elbow should not move at all. Personally, I would replace the entire unit. Some people have suggested JB weld or something of the sort before but I figure for $126 it breaks down to around $4 a year to get a new one since the bikes are 30+ years old at this point.
Money well spent to not have a flaming moto, IMO
I don't see ones for 86's on your site. Do you have them?
No. They were discontinued sometime last year and we sold the last one a few months ago. The 84-85 can be used in its place as dimensionally they are the same. You lose the reserve function by swapping to the 1100 petcock but you do gain a manual prime & on function.
I put an 84' petcock on my 86' when it failed the SUCK test. The Prime function is nice to have.
The prime function got me home....
Same for me.
I just recently had a petcock issue on my 86. Just as for Mark, the petcock failed the suck test.
I had a spare 84-85 on the shelf and haven't looked back.
Fwiw, I have ignored the 86 'reserve' switch for most of the time, and simply leave it on res. I get my refueling reminder when the fuel light begins its low glow, but generally have the next fuel stop planned to suit (I said 'generally'... :sarcastic:).
I've tried rebuilding these little beasties to no avail. I do admit to being a ham fisted novice. The parts are so fine and sensitive it is easy to bugger it up (I did!).
Pat once gave me some advice, if you need one, get a spare, put it on the shelf, and in the years to come it will come in handy. Also, I wonder how long the 84 petcock will be available? Might be time to top up my spares inventory :wacko2:.
Troyskie
what is this manual prime thing you speak of?
Mine wasn't leaking and I can't pull the elbow out so I'm going to go with the safety wire but I'll keep the one for an 1100 in mind.
Prime allows you to fill the carburetors without cranking the bike as there is no need for vacuum. By bypassing the vacuum function you can use the prime to get home if you have a diaphragm problem in the petcock or the vacuum line fails for some reason.
Troyskie,
The 1100 petcock has also been discontinued. So when the shelves are empty there are no more. At last look at our inventory we have somewhere around 100 left but they are selling quicker as people are using them in place of the 86-87 petcock. So far this year we have sold 47 from Jan 1 until now. At that rate mid year next year they will be all gone.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on May 06, 2021, 11:02:54 AM
Prime allows you to fill the carburetors without cranking the bike as there is no need for vacuum. By bypassing the vacuum function you can use the prime to get home if you have a diaphragm problem in the petcock or the vacuum line fails for some reason.
excuse my ignorance of vacuum operated petcocks..my experience is strictly with honda style run of the mill ones but how does that work? You can't even see the petcock without pulling the tank..
and to add to the "how did the bike even run with a huge vacuum leak" saga....this is the first plug I pulled out of it..
(https://i.imgur.com/9jegbs4l.jpg)
but wait..there is more..this is the type of plug and heat range they were running..
a champion. :ireful:
(https://i.imgur.com/icSTMxhl.jpg)
The vacuum petcock will close and stop fuel flow if the engine stops (no vacuum). Useful during a tip over/crash, less fuel leaking out.
Pop the seat and side cover off reach hand in and turn.
Quote from: 5speed on May 05, 2021, 03:36:25 PMshould I be concerned that the elbow spins in the petcock housing?
5speed,
Yes, that rotating elbow fitting will
certainly leak gasoline, and that is a very dangerous defect with your petcock. If you are not going to buy a new petcock, pull out the elbow fitting and clean out the old sealant. Then re-install the elbow with JB-Weld (or better) epoxy. Get the angle of the elbow fitting correct then, because no changes are possible after the epoxy sets.
The petcock PRIME function lets fuel flow with no engine vacuum. The ON function lets fuel flow only when there is vacuum from the engine (which is normal operation and a real safety feature, because the fuel flow stops if the engine cuts off, as in a wreck). OFF just means no fuel flow at all.
If you use your mouth to pull and hold a vacuum on the petcock vacuum line, fuel will flow when the petcock is ON. If the fuel flow stops, then the vacuum diaphragm of the petcock is punctured, and needs to be replaced. This is the SUCK test that you may hear being discussed here.
.
Quote from: 5speed on May 06, 2021, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on May 06, 2021, 11:02:54 AM
Prime allows you to fill the carburetors without cranking the bike as there is no need for vacuum. By bypassing the vacuum function you can use the prime to get home if you have a diaphragm problem in the petcock or the vacuum line fails for some reason.
excuse my ignorance of vacuum operated petcocks..my experience is strictly with honda style run of the mill ones but how does that work? You can't even see the petcock without pulling the tank..
and to add to the "how did the bike even run with a huge vacuum leak" saga....this is the first plug I pulled out of it..
(https://i.imgur.com/9jegbs4l.jpg)
but wait..there is more..this is the type of plug and heat range they were running..
a champion. :ireful:
(https://i.imgur.com/icSTMxhl.jpg)
According to my NGK catalog that is the correct heat range. Equivalent to DPR8EA-9 which is FJ1100. The FJ1200 does not have the "R" which indicates it is a resistance plug.
Quote from: red on May 06, 2021, 03:37:20 PM
Yes, that rotating elbow fitting will certainly leak gasoline, and that is a very dangerous defect with your petcock. If you are not going to buy a new petcock, pull out the elbow fitting and clean out the old sealant. Then re-install the elbow with JB-Weld (or better) epoxy. Get the angle of the elbow fitting correct then, because no changes are possible after the epoxy sets.
The petcock PRIME function lets fuel flow with no engine vacuum. The ON function lets fuel flow only when there is vacuum from the engine (which is normal operation and a real safety feature, because the fuel flow stops if the engine cuts off, as in a wreck). OFF just means no fuel flow at all.
If you use your mouth to pull and hold a vacuum on the petcock vacuum line, fuel will flow when the petcock is ON. If the fuel flow stops, then the vacuum diaphragm of the petcock is punctured, and needs to be replaced. This is the SUCK test that you may hear being discussed here.
.
Thanks. that was my plan. Or what I was going to attempt. I ordered the rebuild kit from RPM so I'll do that when the kit arrives. I'm one of those "try and keep it original" guys..and ya..it's bit me in the ass before and no doubt it will again.
Quote from: krusty on May 06, 2021, 04:20:53 PM
According to my NGK catalog that is the correct heat range. Equivalent to DPR8EA-9 which is FJ1100. The FJ1200 does not have the "R" which indicates it is a resistance plug.
I cross referenced it and came up with DCPR8E1X..so the heat range is correct but it isn't what yamaha recommends so I picked up new DRP8EA-9 plugs today along with new fuel line and hose clamps for a fuel injected line. those factory "clamps" look like a failure waiting to happen.
Quote from: 5speed on May 06, 2021, 06:45:32 PM
I'm one of those "try and keep it original" guys..and ya..it's bit me in the ass before and no doubt it will again.
Do yourself a BIG favor and get over that mentality. There are a lot of upgrades that turn the FJ into a much better motorcycle. Particularly suspension and wheels. And they won't detract from the stock look at all.
Quote from: Troyskie on May 06, 2021, 02:25:59 AM
Fwiw, I have ignored the 86 'reserve' switch for most of the time, and simply leave it on res. I get my refueling reminder when the fuel light begins its low glow, but generally have the next fuel stop planned to suit (I said 'generally'... :sarcastic:).
I typically get my refueling reminder from my bladder which fills up much faster than the tank empties
Quote from: 5speed on May 06, 2021, 06:45:32 PM
I'm one of those "try and keep it original" guys..
That is me too. But I've made a few changes:
FZ1 blue spot calipers and matching master cylinder. The stock brakes suck. The FZ1 brakes are awesome and easy to find on ebay for less than $100. Bolt on.
CBR250R mirrors - now I can actually see my kid, and cars behind me.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on May 06, 2021, 07:11:35 PM
Quote from: 5speed on May 06, 2021, 06:45:32 PM
I'm one of those "try and keep it original" guys..and ya..it's bit me in the ass before and no doubt it will again.
Do yourself a BIG favor and get over that mentality. There are a lot of upgrades that turn the FJ into a much better motorcycle. Particularly suspension and wheels. And they won't detract from the stock look at all.
I should clarify..if changing something that will improve my safety and or reliability I will do it. I did the neon coil swap on my 82 wing because it improves the way the bike starts. I won't do anything that I can't return to stock though like cutting frames.
I have a pair of the honda cb mirrors on their way. I did a bunch of mods to my 76 wing but with the exception of the paint..can be put back to stock.
I have an 86 IROC..the interior and exterior of the car are bone stock. The engine isn't. :diablo:
Yes! Another Modifiers Anonymous member joining the ranks soon!
"It started with Honda mirrors, then grew to an oil filter adapter, front fork rebuild with springs and valves, a rear shock, 17" rims with modern tires and brakes, a 1350 engine...."
Quote from: 5speed on May 07, 2021, 06:07:44 AM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on May 06, 2021, 07:11:35 PM
Quote from: 5speed on May 06, 2021, 06:45:32 PM
I'm one of those "try and keep it original" guys..and ya..it's bit me in the ass before and no doubt it will again.
Do yourself a BIG favor and get over that mentality. There are a lot of upgrades that turn the FJ into a much better motorcycle. Particularly suspension and wheels. And they won't detract from the stock look at all.
I should clarify..if changing something that will improve my safety and or reliability I will do it. I did the neon coil swap on my 82 wing because it improves the way the bike starts. I won't do anything that I can't return to stock though like cutting frames.
I have a pair of the honda cb mirrors on their way. I did a bunch of mods to my 76 wing but with the exception of the paint..can be put back to stock.
I have an 86 IROC..the interior and exterior of the car are bone stock. The engine isn't. :diablo:
A man after my own heart - my FJ has been modded to give better handling, tyre choice and braking, and to make it inhale and exhale a little better than when it left Mr Yamaha's factory.....BUT everything I've done with the exception of the exhaust is reversible (even down to the original completely worn out shock absorber) and I've kept the original parts, "just in case".
The main thing I like about the way my FJ has turned out is that no-one, except other FJ Owners, ever seems to notice the changes, and as I wanted to make a FJ they way Yamaha should have built it, that always makes me think I succeeded.
Mine could also go back to 100% stock easily. I forgot to mention I have an aftermarket fuel pump. Better technology and price than the old one. I only swapped it because the original failed.
Quote from: fj1289 on May 07, 2021, 07:38:03 AM
Yes! Another Modifiers Anonymous member joining the ranks soon!
"It started with Honda mirrors, then grew to an oil filter adapter, front fork rebuild with springs and valves, a rear shock, 17" rims with modern tires and brakes, a 1350 engine...."
:rofl: been there...my 82 wing is a standard..and when I got it I told myself that I was leaving it alone with the exception of routine maintenance things..
a windscreen, traditional coil over shocks, back rest and saddle bags from an 83 interstate later...
got some things done to the FJ..
replaced the kinked fuel line with new hose..which has a larger OD then the original so the factory shield wouldn't go on. Replaced those um..hose clamps with real ones and removed the petcock elbow, cleaned it up, put a thin coat of gasket maker on it and safety wired it in. I put small notches on the edges of the elbow under the safety wire to prevent it from spinning.
(https://i.imgur.com/yuyrjWsl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ps9VqMBl.jpg)
What is this word "stock" I keep hearing about? :pardon:
Quote from: fj1289 on May 07, 2021, 09:13:02 AMWhat is this word "stock" I keep hearing about? :pardon:
fj1289,
Dunno, man, maybe it's some kinda CULT thing . . .
:biggrin:
Quote from: red on May 07, 2021, 11:37:52 AM
Quote from: fj1289 on May 07, 2021, 09:13:02 AMWhat is this word "stock" I keep hearing about? :pardon:
fj1289,
Dunno, man, maybe it's some kinda CULT thing . . .
:biggrin:
it's double speak for sleeper. :i_am_so_happy:
Quote from: 5speed on May 07, 2021, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: red on May 07, 2021, 11:37:52 AM
Quote from: fj1289 on May 07, 2021, 09:13:02 AMWhat is this word "stock" I keep hearing about? :pardon:
fj1289,
Dunno, man, maybe it's some kinda CULT thing . . .
:biggrin:
it's double speak for sleeper. :i_am_so_happy:
THAT explanation I'll happily accept!
Quote from: fj1289 on May 07, 2021, 03:35:38 PM
THAT explanation I'll happily accept!
a friend of mine is building this sleeper...
80's 4 door chevette..the body is in good shape rust wise but peeling paint, dents,etc and he's leaving it just like that and threw this under the hood.
It's a stock (there is that word again) 5.3 liter.
He has steel 15" rims for the back that will keep the tire inside the quarter panel.
she's going to be a screamer.
ETA..the car in the background is a 51 Merc. It used to be a 4 door..
I'm all about the sleeper thing. If I can get back to it my smart car with the sled motor in it should make me some money. And suprise a lot of unsuspecting people. My 86 1350r has had people thinking it's a stock new model. Had an fjr owner come up to me at a gas station saying "fj1350r, is that this year's model? I have a 1300."
The bike looks awesome Dan - especially the seat :good2:
It's a huge compliment to the FJ design (and your mods) that even at 35 years old, another biker could think that its this year's new model :good2: :good2:
Quote from: giantkiller on May 08, 2021, 09:05:34 AM
I'm all about the sleeper thing. If I can get back to it my smart car with the sled motor in it should make me some money. And suprise a lot of unsuspecting people. My 86 1350r has had people thinking it's a stock new model. Had an fjr owner come up to me at a gas station saying "fj1350r, is that this year's model? I have a 1300."
you must have watched that youtube video of the guys in Europe that put the busa engine in a smart car. It sounded very angry while it turned the back tires into smoke.
beautiful fj..can't wait to get mine on the road..
Quote from: Millietant on May 08, 2021, 10:12:24 AM
The bike looks awesome Dan - especially the seat :good2:
It's a huge compliment to the FJ design (and your mods) that even at 35 years old, another biker could think that its this year's new model :good2: :good2:
Thanks guys. Best compliment I ever received was when I put it in the Rockerbox show.@ the vintage bike weekend Road America.
A guy saw my bike and turned to his buddy and said "I just hate when a guy goes and buys a new bike and then brings it, and puts it in the show." Looking straight at me. Thought he was cutting me down. I just got..huge grin. Made my day.
They really were way ahead of their time.
Looks like you'll have it going soon. And will get to understand the insanity.
Quote from: giantkiller on May 08, 2021, 08:53:22 PM
Thanks guys. Best compliment I ever received was when I put it in the Rockerbox show.@ the vintage bike weekend Road America.
A guy saw my bike and turned to his buddy and said "I just hate when a guy goes and buys a new bike and then brings it, and puts it in the show." Looking straight at me. Thought he was cutting me down. I just got..huge grin. Made my day.
They really were way ahead of their time.
Looks like you'll have it going soon. And will get to understand the insanity.
one of the first things I'm doing with it (if it doesn't get cancelled) is putting it in a local vintage bike show. I'll let you know if anyone gives me flack for putting a new bike in the show.
well..the safety wire trick didn't work. Actually the wire didn't. It broke while I was attempting to put the fuel line on.
ever have one of those days where everything you touch turns to crap?
that's today.
I'm now waiting for the epoxy to dry on the elbow. If that doesn't work I'll get it welded in. (https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_angry.gif)
I used a fuel safe epoxy and safety wire when I did mine. Not all epoxies are stable when exposed to fuel. I recommend adding some wire. It may be the difference between the joint leaking and the elbow falling out and emptying your tank onto a hot engine.
:shok:
Quote from: FJmonkey on May 10, 2021, 12:01:31 PM
I used a fuel safe epoxy and safety wire when I did mine. Not all epoxies are stable when exposed to fuel. I recommend adding some wire. It may be the difference between the joint leaking and the elbow falling out and emptying your tank onto a hot engine.
great suggestion. I will have to find a more rugged wire. I used mechanics wire..what was I thinking?
Have you seen this? http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3265.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3265.0)
The angle of the fuel outlet shown in the pictures is the correct angle you should match.
You don't need fancy wire. I used common steel baling wire.
Quote from: 5speed on May 10, 2021, 01:20:42 PM
:shok:Quote from: FJmonkey on May 10, 2021, 12:01:31 PMI used a fuel safe epoxy and safety wire when I did mine. Not all epoxies are stable when exposed to fuel. I recommend adding some wire. It may be the difference between the joint leaking and the elbow falling out and emptying your tank onto a hot engine.
great suggestion. I will have to find a more rugged wire. I used mechanics wire..what was I thinking?
5speed,
Aircraft safety wire is stainless steel, and it is very rust-resistant. .032 inch is the most common. The skinny stuff is .020 inch, and the heavy stuff is .042 inch. Aircraft supply houses, or Amazon (of course) will have what you want.
I safety-wire my oil drain plugs, which you can drill or buy drilled for safety wire. Drilled oil drain plugs can also be magnetic, which is
'WAY good. One guy saw the safety wire and asked if I thought my oil drain plug may come out . . . I just grinned and said
Nope! :biggrin:
Some motorcycle shops sell safety wire too - as well as harbor freight
Quote from: red on May 10, 2021, 06:14:00 PM
Aircraft safety wire is stainless steel, and it is very rust-resistant. .032 inch is the most common. The skinny stuff is .020 inch, and the heavy stuff is .042 inch. Aircraft supply houses, or Amazon (of course) will have what you want.
I safety-wire my oil drain plugs, which you can drill or buy drilled for safety wire. Drilled oil drain plugs can also be magnetic, which is 'WAY good. One guy saw the safety wire and asked if I thought my oil drain plug may come out . . . I just grinned and said Nope! :biggrin:
do the oil drain plugs come loose on these? :shok:
I've never heard of a case - but is common practice in most racing organizations. Some people carry over the practice.
Quote from: 5speed on May 11, 2021, 07:35:29 AM
Quote from: red on May 10, 2021, 06:14:00 PMAircraft safety wire is stainless steel, and it is very rust-resistant. .032 inch is the most common. The skinny stuff is .020 inch, and the heavy stuff is .042 inch. Aircraft supply houses, or Amazon (of course) will have what you want.
I safety-wire my oil drain plugs, which you can drill or buy drilled for safety wire. Drilled oil drain plugs can also be magnetic, which is 'WAY good. One guy saw the safety wire and asked if I thought my oil drain plug may come out . . . I just grinned and said Nope! :biggrin:
do the oil drain plugs come loose on these? :shok:
5speed,
Aside from all of the stories I have heard across decades of riding, Rbentnail on the Yamaha FJR forum just lost the oil drain plug lately. Vibrations (gremlins) have a habit of doing that, on any bike. The Hardleys are famous for leaving a trail of parts behind them. Some might say I'm a fanatic about safety wire, but hey, to each his own. :bye2:
Quote from: red on May 11, 2021, 09:11:37 AM
Aside from all of the stories I have heard across decades of riding, Rbentnail on the Yamaha FJR forum just lost the oil drain plug lately. Vibrations (gremlins) have a habit of doing that, on any bike. The Hardleys are famous for leaving a trail of parts behind them. Some might say I'm a fanatic about safety wire, but hey, to each his own. :bye2:
I've been spinning wrenches on my own vehicles for over 3 decades. Haven't lost a drain plug yet, and I don't torque them to 2000 foot pounds like some "mechanics" do when you get an oil change.
elbow epoxied and safety wired, tank back on the bike and it's off the lift and back in the garage so I can put the gold wing on the lift to put all this back.
The picture does not do it justice at all.
(https://i.imgur.com/A2NpXgHl.jpg)
Quote from: 5speed on May 11, 2021, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: red on May 11, 2021, 09:11:37 AM
Aside from all of the stories I have heard across decades of riding, Rbentnail on the Yamaha FJR forum just lost the oil drain plug lately. Vibrations (gremlins) have a habit of doing that, on any bike. The Hardleys are famous for leaving a trail of parts behind them. Some might say I'm a fanatic about safety wire, but hey, to each his own. :bye2:
I've been spinning wrenches on my own vehicles for over 3 decades. Haven't lost a drain plug yet, and I don't torque them to 2000 foot pounds like some "mechanics" do when you get an oil change.
Doesn't it strike you as a little odd that the only thing to vibrate loose on that guy's FJR was the one bolt he regularly removes and replaces himself?
I have literally seen tens of thousands of vehicles pass through my work places over the years and I've done thousands myself, I can't ever recall a sump plug falling out. I've encountered stripped, cross threaded and finger tight plugs by the dozens but never heard of one falling out.
For a long time it was common for sump plugs to be large diameter, shallow, fine threaded and always hastily refitted between drips, anyone who works with threads will know this is a disaster waiting to happen, and it frequently was. GM, Ford, Chrysler and others all offered No's 1,2 & 3 oversize plugs as genuine spares for just this reason.
Red, your many posts over the years suggest you are knowledgeable, resourceful and a thinker with mechanical nous, I'm surprised you have so little faith in threads. Where do you draw the line, castellated nuts on the rods, wired big ends, cam caps....? If you're going to second guess the engineers, how do you decide what needs wiring and what doesn't?
I have seen countless examples of automotive engineers getting it wrong over my working life but specifying thread pitch, diameter, depth and torque is rarely one of them. Also, there is not one skerrick of verifiable evidence to suggest these plugs come loose anyway.
As I've said to you previously, if you want to wire them, great, do it, just so long as the readers understand you're not doing it to address a known problem.
The only thread related issue I can remember over the last 50+ years was a batch of VW Beetles on which the heads came loose, the factory fix kit was simply a new set of studs with a different thread, problem solved, I fitted heaps of those.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on May 12, 2021, 06:43:50 AM
Doesn't it strike you as a little odd that the only thing to vibrate loose on that guy's FJR was the one bolt he regularly removes and replaces himself?
I have literally seen tens of thousands of vehicles pass through my work places over the years and I've done thousands myself, I can't ever recall a sump plug falling out. I've encountered stripped, cross threaded and finger tight plugs by the dozens but never heard of one falling out.
For a long time it was common for sump plugs to be large diameter, shallow, fine threaded and always hastily refitted between drips, anyone who works with threads will know this is a disaster waiting to happen, and it frequently was. GM, Ford, Chrysler and others all offered No's 1,2 & 3 oversize plugs as genuine spares for just this reason.
Red, your many posts over the years suggest you are knowledgeable, resourceful and a thinker with mechanical nous, I'm surprised you have so little faith in threads. Where do you draw the line, castellated nuts on the rods, wired big ends, cam caps....? If you're going to second guess the engineers, how do you decide what needs wiring and what doesn't?
I have seen countless examples of automotive engineers getting it wrong over my working life but specifying thread pitch, diameter, depth and torque is rarely one of them. Also, there is not one skerrick of verifiable evidence to suggest these plugs come loose anyway.
As I've said to you previously, if you want to wire them, great, do it, just so long as the readers understand you're not doing it to address a known problem.
The only thread related issue I can remember over the last 50+ years was a batch of VW Beetles on which the heads came loose, the factory fix kit was simply a new set of studs with a different thread, problem solved, I fitted heaps of those.
Noel
Oh I hear you..an isolated case of anything falling off a vehicle and I automatically think operator error. I don't plan on wiring any oil drain plugs on anything.
Way back in 1992, on our honeymoon (touring Europe two up with Liz) we were riding the FJ up a hill in the Black Forest with many lovely hairpins and beautiful cambered bends when all of a sudden it felt like the back wheel was on ice and the oil light came on.
I managed to pull over and saw the oil all over the back of the bike and the tyre. I traced the source to a weird looking bolt (looked like a cotton bobbin with a threaded stalk on one end) on the side of the sump that was loose and the oil was spewing out around the threads. At the time I fortunately had a spare bottle of oil on the bike and enough tools in the kit to refill the oil and tighten up the bolt, just enough to get us to a nearby dealer to get a proper repair.
It turns out that the dealer who gave the bike a "major service" in preparation for the honeymoon trip, had not bothered removing the exhaust to get the drain bolt out, so they had removed the "gallery plug" to drain the oil....and then lost it.....basically they bodged it and said nothing (I also think they turned the engine over with the plugs out to get the oil out through the gallery bolt hole, but might be wrong in that). Not only did they not drain the oil properly, but they put the "bolt" back in with a fibre washer.......and surprise surprise, it came loose. Their bodge and laziness, could very easily have cost both Liz and myself our lives.
When I got home and tackled the dealer, they apologised and offered to give me another free service......like I'd trust them again with my bike !!!
That was the last time I used an official Yamaha dealer for any mechanical/servicing work. For the last 29 years I've done it all myself, or had it done by the FJOC a couple of times. In my experience, drain plugs don't fail or leak unless you a) abuse them, or b) don't fit them properly !
Quote from: ribbert on May 12, 2021, 06:43:50 AM
Quote from: 5speed on May 11, 2021, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: red on May 11, 2021, 09:11:37 AM
Aside from all of the stories I have heard across decades of riding, Rbentnail on the Yamaha FJR forum just lost the oil drain plug lately. Vibrations (gremlins) have a habit of doing that, on any bike. The Hardleys are famous for leaving a trail of parts behind them. Some might say I'm a fanatic about safety wire, but hey, to each his own. :bye2:
I've been spinning wrenches on my own vehicles for over 3 decades. Haven't lost a drain plug yet, and I don't torque them to 2000 foot pounds like some "mechanics" do when you get an oil change.
Doesn't it strike you as a little odd that the only thing to vibrate loose on that guy's FJR was the one bolt he regularly removes and replaces himself?
I have literally seen tens of thousands of vehicles pass through my work places over the years and I've done thousands myself, I can't ever recall a sump plug falling out. I've encountered stripped, cross threaded and finger tight plugs by the dozens but never heard of one falling out.
For a long time it was common for sump plugs to be large diameter, shallow, fine threaded and always hastily refitted between drips, anyone who works with threads will know this is a disaster waiting to happen, and it frequently was. GM, Ford, Chrysler and others all offered No's 1,2 & 3 oversize plugs as genuine spares for just this reason.
Red, your many posts over the years suggest you are knowledgeable, resourceful and a thinker with mechanical nous, I'm surprised you have so little faith in threads. Where do you draw the line, castellated nuts on the rods, wired big ends, cam caps....? If you're going to second guess the engineers, how do you decide what needs wiring and what doesn't?
I have seen countless examples of automotive engineers getting it wrong over my working life but specifying thread pitch, diameter, depth and torque is rarely one of them. Also, there is not one skerrick of verifiable evidence to suggest these plugs come loose anyway.
As I've said to you previously, if you want to wire them, great, do it, just so long as the readers understand you're not doing it to address a known problem.
The only thread related issue I can remember over the last 50+ years was a batch of VW Beetles on which the heads came loose, the factory fix kit was simply a new set of studs with a different thread, problem solved, I fitted heaps of those.
Noel
If there is an oil drain related screw on the FJ that is prone to failure it the small drain screw of the oil filter cannisters. There is no good reason to remove it when changing filters as it doesn't prevent oil from dripping all over the bike during a filter change anyway . I had read in more than one post not to remove it. Despite that I did on an oil change before attending my first RPM rally. When I got torwards the top of the infamous mini dragon hill the rear tire began to feel loose .At the top I discovered oil streaming from the screw and coating my bike and tire. I tried to tighten it but the threads wouldn't hold and it spun before tightening enough to stop the flow of oil. With Randy's help I was able to lay a few pieces of string along the length of the threads and then wrap another string around them to hold them in place. I then installed the screw and the strings provided enough bite to hold the screw in tight and stop the leak for the rest of the ride. I now have the RPM spin on oil filter adaptor on all of my FJ's deleting the troublesome screw and providing better filtration.
Quote from: ribbert on May 12, 2021, 06:43:50 AM
Quote from: 5speed on May 11, 2021, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: red on May 11, 2021, 09:11:37 AMAside from all of the stories I have heard across decades of riding, Rbentnail on the Yamaha FJR forum just lost the oil drain plug lately. Vibrations (gremlins) have a habit of doing that, on any bike. The Hardleys are famous for leaving a trail of parts behind them. Some might say I'm a fanatic about safety wire, but hey, to each his own.
I've been spinning wrenches on my own vehicles for over 3 decades. Haven't lost a drain plug yet, and I don't torque them to 2000 foot pounds like some "mechanics" do when you get an oil change.
Doesn't it strike you as a little odd that the only thing to vibrate loose on that guy's FJR was the one bolt he regularly removes and replaces himself?
Red, your many posts over the years suggest you are knowledgeable, resourceful and a thinker with mechanical nous, I'm surprised you have so little faith in threads. Where do you draw the line, castellated nuts on the rods, wired big ends, cam caps....? If you're going to second guess the engineers, how do you decide what needs wiring and what doesn't?
As I've said to you previously, if you want to wire them, great, do it, just so long as the readers understand you're not doing it to address a known problem.
Noel
Noel,
The "problem" is real; it does exist. Ask Rbentnail, on the FJR forum. Safety wire is the sure cure. The bike racers use safety wire, because ..it happens, and the results can be very costly, in money and for riders. I will happily admit, my bias toward the use of safety wire comes from my aviation experience. Multiple engines (producing harmonic vibrations), with nothing solid to damp them out, can disassemble hardware with an ease and speed that is difficult to believe. Likewise, bikes have less mass (and therefore more "shake") than cars, producing the same issue.
Nobody has to pay any attention to me, or to any other safety wire "advocates." My safety wire does not hurt anybody else, nor even me. I do "believe" in threaded assemblies, but only to a certain point. Where do I draw the line? Anywhere I want to draw it. It's my bike, so it's my rules. No offense intended, but conformity for the sake of conformity sucks.
Yes Red, I agree with a lot of what you say but we are talking specifically about sump plugs on motorbikes.
My real world experience and my internet experience makes it difficult to believe the FJR guy's version of events, why just his bike?
I hope I made it clear, in a non offensive manner that what you do to your bike is your business but there is no evidence to suggest others should follow your lead on this occasion, if there is, tell me about it.
Noel
I do the majority of the work on my vehicles. Wheel alignments, anything that requires a top shelf scan tool and exhaust work I can't do.
My "big shop" horror story was with my 92 Caprice.
I took it in for a front end alignment the day before my wife and 2 children and I left for a weekend get away. I had heard a squeak in the driveline and knew the mechanic (good friend) would tell me what it was.
turns out it was the rear u joint in the drive shaft.
He was booked solid and I didn't have the time to do it myself so they gave eh job to one of their guys.
we leave the next day heading for a cottage in PEI we had rented. About 3/4's of the way there I get a vibration in the car. I babied it until we got to the cottage and I got the car up in he air best I could and although I couldn't see it completely I could reach the driveshaft and gave it a shake. It felt tight. I assumed we had lost a wheel weight then.
The next day we are doing the water park, touristy things and on the way back the vibration got really bad. Bad enough I was driving down the shoulder of the road at 30 kms an hour. We were close to the cottage when it got bad so I crossed my fingers and hoped we could make it that far.
when we got back I scrounged up a couple of blocks of wood to block the car up high enough that I could get under it and look.
what did I discover...the oil change idiot had changed the u joint with the car over their pit..which means he couldn't spin the driveshaft around..so he put the top strap and bolts that hold the u joint on the pinion shaft yoke by feel..and only had 1 bolt in the strap.
The cap was gone of that part of the u joint which explained the clunk i heard.
It could have been bad if it had let go when I was doing 60mph..
I had a very one sided conversation with teh shop manager and he called their shop on the island who came and got me and the car with a tow truck. I got my father to come get my wife and children..and the shop reimbursed me for his gas and bridge toll..
that was the last time I ever took a vehicle there.
Quote from: ribbert on May 12, 2021, 10:23:07 AMYes Red, I agree with a lot of what you say but we are talking specifically about sump plugs on motorbikes. My real world experience and my internet experience makes it difficult to believe the FJR guy's version of events, why just his bike?
I hope I made it clear, in a non offensive manner that what you do to your bike is your business but there is no evidence to suggest others should follow your lead on this occasion, if there is, tell me about it.
Noel
Noel,
One possible answer about that actual occurrence was the owner's prior statement that he always re-used the crush washer on the drain plug, even though any auto parts store has crush washers by the bag for imported cars, in the correct size. This practice may be more common than we might like, even among the pro mechanics.
Beyond that, I invite you to make your own decisions about your steed. I will do the same. It is
NOT in the best interests of
anybody for either one of us to try to influence the decisions of others. My post above only pointed out one possible choice.
Quote from: red on May 12, 2021, 04:48:15 PM
.....It is NOT in the best interests of anybody for either one of us to try to influence the decisions of others. My post above only pointed out one possible choice.
Red, you have no control over that. People read advice from folks like yourself, Pat, Randy and others and while you may well only be answering one persons question, it can strike a chord with dozens, maybe even hundreds, many of whom will act on it, some right away, some in the future.
If you have credibility with the readers, they will adopt your personal choices too, whether they're offered as advice or not and regardless of whatever disclaimers accompany them, many will follow suit.
Noel
Quote from: FJmonkey on May 04, 2021, 05:21:22 PM
Check lower frame rail bolts/fasteners. My last purchase of my 89' had a missing bolt. Some reported finding them broken/missing. Prior to 89', safety wire the petcock. Check the reddish/brown 2 pin connector on the left side near the side of the battery. This tends to melt internally, not easy to see till you open it. Check valves, change the fuel filter if 89+. Check the chain and sprockets. A broken chain can mean a broken case or personal injury. Many more common things to check.
I just discovered a missing lower frame bolt on the front-left side of the bike, and I have no idea how long it has been gone for! Unbelievable that vibrations are that powerful.
Is it missing or sheared off?
I've found a couple of the 8mm lower cradle bolts sheared off before. That was fun....not.
I never figured out why the cradle was sized for 10mm bolts, yet the frame was threaded for an 8mm bolt.
Have you checked your red plug?
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18995.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18995.0)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 19, 2021, 07:45:07 PM
Is it missing or sheared off?
I've found a couple of the 8mm lower cradle bolts sheared off before. That was fun....not.
I never figured out why the cradle was sized for 10mm bolts, yet the frame was threaded for an 8mm bolt.
Completely missing! I'm fortunate to have a good friend in the area that works for Yamaha, and he ordered me an OEM replacement, however Yamaha sent a 12mm when the rest of the frame/cradle bolts are 10mm... :/