Hey guys, hope everyone is doing well and staying safe. I got my '87 rescue FJ running and driving pretty decent and have been putting miles on due to quarantine and the summer weather. I think I have added 1000-1500 in the past month. I still have a few issues I haven't been able to work out though.
I switched the stock brake master cylinder for a 14mm FJR one and kept the same calipers, I can get better braking force but it takes a fair bit of travel before I get much resistance. New brake fluid, new stainless lines, no air in the system. I suppose that is just how it is with this hydraulic match-up. I can't really get as much bite as I want for two finger braking though. It is fine for four finger but my preference is two finger for holding on and using the throttle. Besides doing index finger curls is there anything I can do with the 87 forks to improve bite? It doesn't seem like there are any good alternative caliper options but I have been looking at semi-sintered and sintered brake pads. Do these improve bite or is it just a wear thing? I am worried about them eating up the rotors, not sure if anyone has experience there.
I have this odd issue when coming to a stop with the clutch in or in neutral where the bike just randomly dies. It idles fine, but if you grab the brakes fast when not in gear(enough to make the front dip) the bike just dies. It is really bad when cold (first 20 minutes of running) but still happens occasionally when warm. I don't know what the culprit is. I wonder if it is carb bowl height but I have triple checked the floats and they are all in spec. Maybe oil drag? I am running 15w-40. The carburation isn't quite perfect I think. I have this really bad flatspot in the midrange low 4k to high 5k rpm. I have messed with the carb needles a bunch and haven't found much luck in resolving it. The mixture screws don't seem to do much as well when turned all the way in or all the way out. I am currently running 40 pilot 115 main fourth clip on the needle with stock exhaust and k&n intakes. Is this just a characteristic of the motor? I would think something so torquey wouldn't have much problem in the midrange. Low end pulls pretty well and the top end is crazy.
I also have an oil leak that I cannot find. I have stripped everything around the motor to try and find it, it doesn't seem like it is coming from a gasket or sealing surface. It mostly leaks out of the left-hand sprocket cover side but it comes from higher up. The alternator and starter were wet, replaced the orings on both of them and there is still oil coming from up there.
(https://i.imgur.com/FNQsIEc.jpg)
The head and cylinder are all dry so not sure what else there is to leak up there. There is a small hairline crack near the rear motor mount but that feels dry and shouldn't be able to leak anyway, is it a safety issue I should tig weld though? (https://i.imgur.com/jDXqj5V.jpg)
There is also a leak on the back side of the motor that also seems to come from nowhere. It drips down in front of the rear tire which is a problem. All I can see on the back of the motor there is a bolt. (https://i.imgur.com/RCYlNHc.jpg)
Cheers, stay safe yall.
Quote from: ajacstern on June 30, 2020, 12:33:41 AM
I got my '87 rescue FJ running and driving pretty decent and have been putting miles on due to quarantine and the summer weather......I still have a few issues I haven't been able to work out though.
Glad you've got it on the road. You have brought your problems to the right place, there will be an avalanche of advice on all your queries, so Ill kick it off with my 2 cents worth.
The FJR master cylinder has an adjustable lever, do you have it adjusted so the take up point is the max distance from the bars? (if that's your preference)
Admittedly, your calipers will remain a limiting factor to some extent but don't underestimate the difference good pads make. The difference can be your brakes feeling like blocks of wood or scaring you with how grippy they are.
IMO, talk of pads eating up rotors is 99.9% urban myth that somehow survives on various forums and FB pages and, like so much other misinformation on the net, is passed on by someone who knew someone who's ........it's never first hand. The forum has a ton of experience with pads, rotor, caliper and m/c combinations.
As for the bike dying under brakes, you say it is irregular and that fuel levels are spec. If you determine beyond doubt that it's not fuel related (more info like how long and from what speed under brakes are you talking) bikes have something that is peculiar to them (as opposed to cars), wiring that can be affected by suspension travel, steering (turning the bars) electrical stuttering on acceleration (yes, I've had that) wind and vibration. Trouble shooting these problems over the net gets murky.
Similarly, chasing oil leaks when you've already eliminated the common and the obvious is difficult over the net, but plenty will chip in and someone will nail it. My suggestion was going to be check the crankcase breather (is it connected to the filter box) but perhaps the amount of oil you describe is too much for that.
If there's one subject here on the forum that has an abundance of experts, and *one guy who wrote the book, it's carbies, they will have the symptoms you describe sorted in a jiffy.
Good luck getting your problems sorted, you've come to the right place.
Noel
*
Haha, before too many folk line up to take a bow, that would be David Raforth
For the brakes, you're kind of stuck with the stock calipers. Best mod I did was changing the fork sliders to a pair from an '89 and putting R1 calipers and master on with a 17" front wheel.
For the leaks, check the valve cover grommets. They get brittle and can leak a lot. Bit of a stretch to get down that low. Might try cleaning everything up and using baby powder to identify the source.
Good luck.
chris
Ajacstern,
Unless you have a pump, bleeding brakes (especially the front) will be an anti-gravity proposition. They now make a banjo bolt with a brake bleeder in it. These things cost US$15~20 from the right folks, but the wrong sellers may charge you FAR more for them. Use one at each front master cylinder, brake and clutch.
For the oil leaks, get the area as clean as possible, then spray there with aerosol body powder. The oil will stain the white powder on the metal before the oil goes everywhere, to show you the source of the leak(s).
Keep es posted.
.
If that is indeed a crack it will definitely leak from there, depending how far down it goes. Monkey Mark's bike had a crack in a similar location if I recall correctly and I have seen a few in the race cars that crack there and leak oil out.
That crack will only get worse as well as it is at the motor mount and there is some chassis flex which will just exacerbate the crack.
I do have the FJR lever on the farthest setting but it takes a lot of squeeze to be able to do anything. Hmm that is interesting if sintered pads do not produce significantly more rotor wear I might go for those then, have you tested them with the stock fj rotors? These rotors feel incredibly soft to me and they are surprisingly expensive to replace. I was looking at the semi-sintered EBC pads (FA88V), they are for cruisers and heavy streetbikes but no mention of friction coefficient. It'd be nice if manufacturers would publish dyno runs of their pads for comparison lol. An electrical problem is a good proposition, I haven't checked the ignition system anymore thoroughly than putting the sparkplug against the head and looking for blue spark.
I have looked into the upgraded forks mod and it is definitely something I am interested in. Haven't found any 88+ fork lowers for sale and the complete forks fetch a pretty penny on eBay. Would be cheaper to just buy modern USD forks and modify the triple tree to accept it I think. The stock fork springs I have are awfully weak even on max preload, I can bottom out the front by looking at it too hard so I have to add in spring replacement with a new set of forks aswell. I have heard some people argue the 16" front wheel gives easier turning but I am not sure how that works as the 17" uses a thinner tire for the same overall diameter. I did the valve grommets + cover a bit ago during a valve job and it is all dry up there fortunately/unfortunately.
I have a syringe I use for vacuum bleeding that works pretty well. I saw those speed bleeders and they did look nice but I don't mess with brakes often enough to justify changing out all the bleeder valves on my bikes IMO (Well the fj is the only one with hydraulic brakes but still). I can reverse/pressure bleed with it too but I find vaccuum bleeding works the best. I checked with the front wheel off the ground and it does start engaging at a decent point on the lever travel but it is so light I can still walk the bike with the brakes pulled to that point. I tried the talcum powder but went I stripped the bike down to check again everything was oiled up so I couldn't tell where it was coming from. Might try it again and just run the bike on the stand without air filters on it so I can see the problem area.
Hmm if the crack is deep enough then that definitely sounds a likely culprit. I am surprised it is hollow in there it looks like just a thin structural piece, I assumed it was filled in. I suppose I should probably drop the motor and buy a tig welder and learn how to use it / find someone who does $$$ OR I could clean it and put on $5 of JB weld and pretend to forget about it. Obviously welding is the best practice but I am not sure if it matters enough that jb weld wouldn't work. It's worked on clutch covers before for sure. Save some money for the forks, brakes, paint, 500HP nitro+supercharger build, etc.
Thanks for all the advice!
That particular spot is not hollow it is a support web but the crack usually does not stop there.
You need to figure out why it is broken. Mark's frame was bent, this is also true of the race cars that have problems breaking motor mounts. The additional load from the frame being bent puts stress in directions the mounts were not meant to and cracks things.
You can add some heat directly to the crack and watch it open up. Direct torch heat, we use a small propane torch when chasing cracks.
Kind of difficult to see in these photos but to the right side of where you circled is hollow. The photos here are the underside directly below the motor mount bolt. You can kind of gauge how much deeper it is compared to the starter hole opening.
Basically from the top of the web and behind it is hollow all the way down. The thin webbing is not hollow.
Ah-ha, I see thank you. I couldn't visually see the crack going further but I will recheck. Little worried about using a torch with oil and being so close to the carbs, might have to drop the motor for that. The PO said they laid it down into some grass at around 120 so I wouldn't be super surprised if there was frame damage. I have visually checked the whole frame and found no cracks or abnormal bends; I am not really sure how else to check a frame. None of the shops in my area have a frame alignment machine. The rear tire is offset from the subframe/fender but I am hoping that is just subframe damage. The bike tracks reasonably straight, it goes a bit to the right with no hands on it but I think that is just because I haven't aligned the rear tire properly after greasing the swingarm, it wasn't doing this previously. I hope the crack just formed from jarring impact force and not a permanently bent frame, but if it did would grinding it open with a dremel and filling in with jb weld work as a repair? It sounds like it is not supposed to be stressed in this direction anyway. (https://i.imgur.com/7aOTppe.jpg)
I don't think the JB weld will work. I know we ground out and welded Monkey Mark's bike and it was leaking by the time he got back home.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12995.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12995.0)
See reply 13
First step is first you need to confirm if that is the leak or not.
ajacstern,
As for any frame damage, chances are that the engine is holding the frame straighter than it really is, now. In other words, if you took out all of the engine mounting bolts, I would expect that the frame is bent or warped enough that some of the engine mounting bolts would be difficult or impossible to install again. If the frame/chassis is now bent, and the engine mounts are cracking because of that, then it is likely that the bike is beyond reasonable economic repair. Another (maybe newer?) FJ may be cheaper than repairing what you have now. If you can find the exact same year FJ to buy, and you have the storage space, you will have a *complete* set of spare parts for the next bike.
Hate to think that, but it may become a case of cutting your losses. Now I'm no expert, but I think you need an expert "hands-on" evaluation of the problems.
.
Quote from: ajacstern on June 30, 2020, 02:39:37 PM
I do have the FJR lever on the farthest setting but it takes a lot of squeeze to be able to do anything. Hmm that is interesting if sintered pads do not produce significantly more rotor wear I might go for those then, have you tested them with the stock fj rotors? These rotors feel incredibly soft to me and they are surprisingly expensive to replace. I was looking at the semi-sintered EBC pads (FA88V), they are for cruisers and heavy streetbikes but no mention of friction coefficient. It'd be nice if manufacturers would publish dyno runs of their pads for comparison lol.
Hmmm, perhaps if the piston in the single caliper has a slightly larger area than total of the two pistons in the twin caliper the master was designed for, it has to move a whisker more fluid? I'm sure it's been done but I can't recall anyone having the combination you have. Usually the FJR m/c is fitted to the later twin piston FJ or blue spot calipers from other models.
The EBC HH pads are the most popular choice here and many other places, so much so, RPM sell them. They are still I believe, the grippiest pads on the market. I would imagine there are literally 100's of bikes on the forum running them on OEM rotors, as I did for years, they do not eat rotors! The rotors by the way are not that expensive to replace. There is a favoured after market brand that is very popular here and elsewhere for a fraction of the cost of genuine replacements. Once again, these are in widespread use and have had everything imaginable thrown at them in terms of use and abuse over 100's of 1000's of miles and many riders.
There are charts on the net showing the very performance characteristics you describe for brake pads, and more. EBC for example has just such a chart to enable you to make the best choice. However, why waste you own money, learn from the experience of others. If you buy the wrong pads, it's going to be a long time before your replace them again, if ever.
Good point on the fork springs. I had also upgraded those, as well. The advantage with the 17" front wheel is that it opens up a large number of radial tire options. Once you go radial, you'll never go back to bias.
As long as you have a radial on the rear too.
88HH is the most aggressive
88V is in between a HH and regular organic
88 is standard organic.
All the EBC pads are as above
We like the feel of the HH up front and standards in the rear. We do have a couple customers that run the HH up front and either an HH or V in the rear because they like to do a bit more aggressive trail braking.
It is all about finding what you like and are more comfortable with. That being said HH will last longer as they are a metallic material and have a bit more aggressive initial bite.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on July 01, 2020, 10:14:37 AM
We do have a couple customers that run the HH up front and either an HH or V in the rear because they like to do a bit more aggressive trail braking.
Question for you Randy...What does "HH or V in the rear" have to do with trail braking?
Trail braking is a front brake technique where you ease off the brake lever as you enter into a turn. It keeps the front tire planted for better traction.
Here's a hint, when learning how to use trail braking a "softer" compound can help as it is less grabby. Of course it also has less bite so it will likely take more stopping distance all other things being equal.
Quote from: Motofun on July 02, 2020, 06:34:24 AM
Question for you Randy...What does "HH or V in the rear" have to do with trail braking?
Having the more aggressive brake pad in the rear, for me at least, limits my modulation while trail braking. The rear tire is more prone to lose traction with the road surface and the back steps out much easier. I don't have any experience with the V compound, but those that use it find it a nice balance between the HH and organic pads. It offers better stopping power over the organic, but doesn't make the rear brake like an on/off switch like the HH.
I will be trying a set on the rear the next time I replace the brakes.
I really like the HH for the front because the FJ is heavy and the brakes have a nice bite which I can then modulate back as I continue to the apex. They allow me to slow down more if I get into a corner too deep whereas, like you mentioned the organics just can't stop as well and cannot offer the additional stopping power if needed.
The addition of the monoblock calipers and their stagger piston designs also help on trail braking riding technique.
Randy - RPM
Sorry, Moto I should have typed, "They like the more aggressive rear bite whilst trail braking.", not "more aggressive trail braking." I was trying to multi task and the language in my mind didn't translate to the interweb as it came through my fingers.
Some people use the rear brake on entry & mid corner and some don't hardly use the rear brake at all (same goes for normal or panic braking). That is a different debate, and everyone has their preference. I'm not a riding coach and I don't presume to be one so i'm not getting into that debate.
:Facepalm:
Got it. At the very pointy end of the stick many racers use the rear brake to help settle the suspension though when at maximum braking it's of little use in my opinion. Now heavy weight bikes like cruisers it can be a different story. For myself I only use the rear brake if I exit the track onto the grass, then it's the only brake you want to use (unless you're going to hit the wall, then it's throw out every anchor you have). :lol:
Haha if I was going for the most economic option I would have cut my losses before I began, I guess I am just a glutton for bad decisions and expensive projects :). After covering the crack in baby powder and going for a ride it seems that the leak is coming from the crack. Not that the crack has expanded further than the webbing but it is actually leaking out of the supposed to be filled webbing. I assume it is cracked all the way through and is leaking on the front and back side. (The picture of the backside of the engine is from before I ran the engine so the powder still appears white, the oil is leaking right into that area) (https://i.imgur.com/oKKveru.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T8fWjE2.jpg)
But as far as this crack being caused by a bent frame I am not convinced yet. I removed the upper rear mount rod near the crack and it was easy to slide in and out, didn't seem out of alignment at all. I would think if the frame is bent that the rod wouldn't slide easily, unless the other engine mounts are holding the frame straight. Is it possible to remove all the engine mounts and support the engine from beneath without removing the engine + exhaust and carbs? Basically leave it place but just supported by a jack on the bottom. If the frame really isn't bent then I will sand down the paint and epoxy over the crack until a vaccine or such and I can get a job again to hire a welder.
Personally I use the rear a lot, probably because of dirt bike experience. The FJ one is pretty touchy though, easy to slide. I might even stick with the organic in the rear it doesn't need anymore bite. Will have to see how touchy the front gets with HH pads and try to match the rear in terms of sensitivity. As long as the rear wheel is still on the ground you can gain more stopping power by using the rear brake imo. It is tricky to use because you reduce pressure on the rear as the front compresses while increasing pressure on the front so it takes some getting used to but I find I can brake about 20% later using the rear on the street. Have yet to go to a street track though so take my advice with a large pile of salt.
As far as the carbies go I have tried moving the needle around in half steps and have yet to be able to figure out this midrange bog. I tried using different needle settings on each of the cylinders until the sparkplug all looked right but that did not work very well so I am going to try and keep all the needles at the same position now. I have gone from 3-4.5 with all of them the same and it still bogs pretty hard and hesitates/stumbles right at 4k. I can't really notice any difference in changing the needle height so not sure which way to go. I assume if it was a gas flow issue then that would affect the top end not the midrange.
It could be hollow on the 1100/1200. I only had a 1250 case to take a photo of. No 1200s open at the moment.
You can Put a jack and a piece of wood under the engine to support it while removing the engine bolts. Will make it a whole lot easier with two people. One to balance and one to install/remove the bolts.
Even if the frame is not bent when it was wrecked, the jarring from the accident could have stressed it enough to crack it.
This is not a common occurrence in the bikes.
Ajacstern,
As you remove bolts, you can replace them with thin bolts (or 3/16"~3mm steel rod). Once all of the bolts are out, it will be obvious if the frame is bent, when you start re-installing those bolts. Even if that process works well, however, you will still have a cracked engine mounting lug, and an oil leak.
I know of no repair process for a cracked engine case, that will survive one hard ride. The problem with welding aluminum is that the metal around the repair is weakened by the welding job, so even when the weld holds, the metal around the welding may fail. Wish I had better news there, but feel free to pursue your work. Personally, I might go looking for a replacement engine, at a minimum, if not a new bike. The RPM guys may be able to help with finding the spare engine, or a maybe a buyer for what you have, to reduce your losses for another engine.
Best wishes.
If the case is bad - but the frame checks out OK — I'd look for a set of cases and simply rebuild it as you swap the parts into the "new" cases. Decide if you want to stay stock or add some performance. Do some of the "preventative" things while you are in there like getting the trans undercut. Then enjoy the results for decades to come...
Quote from: ribbert on July 01, 2020, 04:36:53 AM
Hmmm, perhaps if the piston in the single caliper has a slightly larger area than total of the two pistons in the twin caliper the master was designed for, it has to move a whisker more fluid?
<snip>
However, why waste you own money, learn from the experience of others. If you buy the wrong pads, it's going to be a long time before your replace them again, if ever.
Way back before I made the "upgrade" to monoblocks, I was running a set of Ferodo HH sintered pads in the stock 2-piston calipers of my '85. That setup was really good, the brakes were amazing. So much so that I was somewhat disappointed with the monoblocks, even running HH pads. I felt the new braking performance was not as aggressive as what I had replaced.
I measured the caliper pistons and you do in fact lose some piston area with the monoblocks. they make up for it with more swept pad area acting further from the center (so more level arm for the braking force). The 4 pistons also distribute the braking force over the pad more uniformly.
At one point, I bought the wrong pads. For some reason I bought a set of EBC "green" pads, I think they were organic, but they were cheap. Used them for about 2 weeks. Every time I got back home from a ride, the whole front of the bike was covered with black brake dust. And I don't ride hard enough to abuse the brakes. Still have those pads in a drawer somewhere.
Okay, after some wrestling I got the motor "out". It is dropped down but still in the frame because I can't get the bike high enough to move it out. I should still have enough working space though. Was able to get a good look at the crack. It isn't too big but definitely leaking. Unsure what I should do to prevent it spreading before putting metal epoxy over it. Because of the angle I can't grind it with a dremel. (https://i.imgur.com/GtEwQhd.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/xqt7hFC.jpg) . Cheers!
Ended up grinding a light channel in the crack with a Dremel tool and filling it in with JB weld, will report on results.
Quote from: ajacstern on July 15, 2020, 09:49:46 PM
Ended up grinding a light channel in the crack with a Dremel tool and filling it in with JB weld, will report on results.
Risky business offering an opinion on this, but here's my 2 cents worth anyway. The success of JB weld or similar depends on whether you're simply filling the crack or trying to hold it together. The former will work if stress is no longer present, that is, if it was the result of a one off event such as an accident, plenty of engines getting around with glued up holes and cracks. However, if the stress is still there, it will continue to spread, the glue won't hold it together. There is a technique called "stop drilling" which the aviation guys will be familiar with but I've only ever used it or seen it used with success on sheet metal stress cracks.
When you separated the engine from the frame, was there any obvious "relief" as you withdrew the bolts and did you need to knock any of them out?
I don't see why this can't be successfully welded but it's one of those jobs that needs a proper welder. I'm a reasonable welder which means I'm good enough for most jobs and good enough to know my limitations and recognise when I need a great welder! If you want to see just what can be welded on engines, check out Alan Millyard and his amazing engines on YouTube. If you are mechanically inclined, how he makes these machines will have your head spinning.
For the welder, this is not a big job, getting it to him, well, that's another matter, these engines are heavy bastards.
If this was my bike, this is the path I would take and I would be guided by the welders opinion. If you've sought or paid for his expertise, it's no time to second guess him, if he says it's stuffed, start looking around for another engine, not another welder.
If the worst comes to the worst, a dog of an FJ isn't worth much and the engines are bullet proof for 100's of 1000's of kms, hunt around for a pranged or neglected one. Most FJ's seem to be low mileage despite their age, high mileage bikes being the exception.
Some years back I fitted a motor I had acquired for what I thought would be for just a few weeks while I fixed a failed base gasket ( I had a trip to arranged) on the bike's original engine. It had 145k on it when I put it in and it's condition was largely unknown to me. It ran so well that to this day, I haven't got around to re installing my original, low mileage, Wiseco big bore engine. That entire bike cost $500 (with the engine removed in preparation for the output shaft seal to be replaced !!!!) The owner was of the opinion the cases needed to be split and thought he would save some money by removing the engine himself and delivering it to his mechanic. I don't keep records but I reckon that must a at least 100k ago and it still runs like a dream at 265k
A bit of trivia for the old timers here. When I went to buy that bike, the seller was bad mouthing a fellow forum member who had already committed to buy it on ebay weeks earlier and but never followed through. The seller was not happy as he had hung on to it for some time, waiting until such time as it became obvious the sale wasn't going to happen, the "buyer" was
Irishluck!
The motor was, and still is, remarkable and it was a complete rideable bike (once an engine was installed) I reckon I must be the only guy here who can look back on him with such fondness. I wouldn't have even known about the sale if not for him raising it on the forum as I wasn't looking for a bike or an engine at that point. As fate would have it, it was on a couple of kms from my house.
For those that don't know or remember Irishluck, he was in the US somewhere and the bike was in Southern Australia! He was a "colourful" former member, a quote from whom Klavdy still uses in his signature.
Noel
You beat me to it with the "stop drilling" practise. I've seen this done by windscreen repairers to stop a crack from 'growing'. Resin is then injected. It's not always successful but could sometimes save on an expensive windscreen replacement.
Perhaps a good TIG welder may be the way to go. My son once holed a piston in his CBR250RR which was successfully TIGged with the head removed (as the cylinders are integral with the cases).
I few posts with the same or very similar crack...
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12794.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12794.0)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg16082#msg16082 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg16082#msg16082)
I am pretty confident Mark's broke before he got home and I don't recall the success of SkyFive
I agree Ribbert, I do not expect JB weld to hold at all if it is placed under stress. Once I broke the engine mounts free from rust they all slid in and out easily and I saw no weird frame tweaks. I am hopeful that the engine is not normally stressed that way and it is just the 100ish mph crash of the previous owner that caused the crack. If it doesn't hold I am only out $2 of JB weld and a few hours of quaran-time. Or at least I hope that is all that is all I am out... I was trying to reinstall the engine but because the oil pan is at a weird angle I couldn't get the engine mounts to lineup. Tried to shim jack-engine surface and the engine slipped off. Oops. I grabbed it and tried to slow it down so it didn't hit to hard but it did hit. Hopefully the oil pan isn't ruined. I also now have the issue of getting the engine back into the frame, I can't lift it like dirtbike engines and have no engine hoist. Anyone have any methods they like to use for installing? I don't think pulling off the suspension would work because of the angle. Might try to clean the oil and invite someone over and see if we can lift it.
If this doesn't work I like the idea of a tig welder because I have a had good luck with welding for really extreme loads before but RPM-Robert points out that hasn't worked well in the past. Replacing the cases would be a bit more certain to have no problems and would "give" me an opportunity to do the bottom end, undercut the trans, replace the shift forks, etc. Bore it 1600cc while I am at it :).
Greetings,
I am a newbie to the forum. I just purchased a 1985 FJ 1100 with 13k miles on it here in NJ.
I am a Retired Mechanical Engineer by trade( 30 years in Oil Refining ) grew up in Ireland & was fortunate enough to ride the Tourist Trophy circuit in my college days at the Isle Of Man.
If I may comment on the crack issue having used the "drill stop " technique only in critical leak conditions. Typically the recommendation is to drill >75% of the metal thickness to be successful in stopping the crack spread. The guaranteed way to then repair the crack would be to remove the component,degrease it and investigate the metallurgy & procedure for welding/repair. Surface grinding / preparation ,preheating the component to a specific temperature & weld repair. The piece can then be stress released/relieved by controlled heating & cooling slowly. Achieving these specific temperatures & rates of heating/cooling are critical for success. A good machine shop/welder would know exactly what to do & have the gear to do it successfully.
Delighted to have found this group with the incredible history of knowledge & experience that the members have. I have already been able to find parts I needed & ordered from RPM for my project.
I do hope as a newbie adding my 2c is acceptable. Just like to help! :blush:
Welcome Barry, when you get a chance, please post over in the Introduction Section, that way your intro won't get buried into this topic.
We appreciate your expertise and you will become a valuable resource for your fellow FJ folks.
That's how it works, individually we have our weak points but collectively we are much smarter.
The guys on this forum are the best of the bunch. Quite amazing the depth and breadth of knowledge here.
Cheers
Pat
Good to hear everything appears to be lined up and not under stress.
As our new member Cat Cracker and I agree, the success of such a weld depends on expert welding. I've been welding for 50 years, have 3 welders and was formally taught to weld in trade school but it's not my trade and if this was my bike, I'd be taking it to a proper welder! I'm good enough to know I'm not that good.
If using JB, I'd grind the crack out a bit and drill a couple of holes to give the adhesive a "key". If just covering the crack on the surface, I would worry about the hot oil compromising the bond from underneath. The other thing that greatly affects the success of such a job is getting the surfaces oil free and clean, not easy with that sort of crack, hence the suggested grinding and drilling.
JB is too thick to penetrate the crack, unlike CA glues, and there are two schools of thought on the wisdom of thinning it, hence the suggestion to grind it out a bit.
Having said all that, if it was my own bike, I'd skip the JB step entirely and take it straight to the welder. I'm unaware of the past jobs Robert was referring to but I would expect a successful outcome from such a repair.
As for getting the motor back in, I find a bit of 2 x 4 under the centre stand to raise the bike a little and the engine on a floor jack makes it pretty easy to raise, turn and tilt. A folded towel between the jack saddle and the bottom of the engine makes tilting and angling a little easier. A standard size floor jack, which has a saddle diameter of about 6" is almost a must, both for stability and ease of operation.
Good luck.
Noel
I think welding would be best but I have repaired more than one hole with JB weld. I repaired a two inch wide hole in the case of a cb750 caused by a broken chain by JB welding a section of an aluminum coke can over the hole. That repair was leak free for the four years I rode it after the repair. Another repair was on an old Chevy truck that popped a freeze plug behind the engine mount. I couldn't reach it to clean and prep it so I spread jb weld over the plug then I saturated a paper towel with jb weld and pressed it over the freeze plug. The fibers held the jb weld in place very well and the repair out lasted the rest of the motor. Probably a fine mesh would work as well and be a little more cosmetic .
Quote from: T Legg on July 18, 2020, 01:26:01 AM
... I repaired a two inch wide hole in the case of a cb750 caused by a broken chain by JB welding a section of an aluminum coke can over the hole... an old Chevy truck that popped a freeze plug behind the engine mount..... so I spread jb weld over the plug then I saturated a paper towel with jb weld and pressed it over the freeze plug. The fibers held the jb weld in place very well and the repair out lasted the rest of the motor....
Amazing. Can you imagine the JB stories that must be out there, especially the emergency, limp home type repairs such as yours that were then left for the remaining life of the vehicle. Having been in the trade, I've seen many vehicles pass through with pre-existing JB (or similar) repairs of unknown age or origin, their stories lost in time and the repairs destined to live on forever.
I recall an occasion where a bike had a ridiculously sized chunk of the crankcase that seemed to be held together with epoxy glue and I asked the owner what happened, his answer was " I don't know, I bought it like that"
I've found self fusing silicone-rubber tape to be the new wonder product for emergency repairs. I wrapped a burst heater hose with it in my last car while on a trip. At first I was amazed it held tight until I got home, it then held tight for the next 5 years until I was selling it, at which point I only replaced the hose because it was a bad look. Amazingly, it undid with the same elasticity and re-usability it had when I put it on.
Noel
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 17, 2020, 08:40:03 PM
...individually we have our weak points but collectively we are much smarter.
Boy, *THAT'S* debatable...
rossi
Quote from: ribbert on July 18, 2020, 04:10:44 AM
Quote from: T Legg on July 18, 2020, 01:26:01 AM
... I repaired a two inch wide hole in the case of a cb750 caused by a broken chain by JB welding a section of an aluminum coke can over the hole... an old Chevy truck that popped a freeze plug behind the engine mount..... so I spread jb weld over the plug then I saturated a paper towel with jb weld and pressed it over the freeze plug. The fibers held the jb weld in place very well and the repair out lasted the rest of the motor....
Amazing. Can you imagine the JB stories that must be out there, especially the emergency, limp home type repairs such as yours that were then left for the remaining life of the vehicle. Having been in the trade, I've seen many vehicles pass through with pre-existing JB (or similar) repairs of unknown age or origin, their stories lost in time and the repairs destined to live on forever.
I recall an occasion where a bike had a ridiculously sized chunk of the crankcase that seemed to be held together with epoxy glue and I asked the owner what happened, his answer was " I don't know, I bought it like that"
I've found self fusing silicone-rubber tape to be the new wonder product for emergency repairs. I wrapped a burst heater hose with it in my last car while on a trip. At first I was amazed it held tight until I got home, it then held tight for the next 5 years until I was selling it, at which point I only replaced the hose because it was a bad look. Amazingly, it undid with the same elasticity and re-usability it had when I put it on.
Noel
I newer tested JB weld but once i was on a long trip into Sweden i then had a fj1100 my bike fell over on the right side after a stop
the brakepedal made a hole in the clutch cover and oil flow out this was long from any city or store.My friend drove me to a gasstation
and i got some super epoxy glue and some plaster for fixing dents on cars. drove back to my bike and used some sandingpaper then cleaned around the hole with some gasoline .Then used a Swedish coin glued it over the hole and epoxy plaster on top of that.
I worked fine.Then i later just painted over the space and forgot about the repair.i think it was 3 years later and i had sold the bike
the buyer called me after some days not so happy as he found the chunk of plaster with a coin inside on his garagefloor and oil had flowed out :shok: :blush:.I was embarrassed and told him i had forgot about the emergency repair i did and told him i would drive straight to yamaha dealer and buy him a new clutchcover and gasket. :blush:
Quote from: Old Rider on July 20, 2020, 08:45:06 AM
.....Then used a Swedish coin glued it over the hole and epoxy plaster on top of that.
I worked fine.Then i later just painted over the space and forgot about the repair.i think it was 3 years later and i had sold the bike
the buyer called me after some days not so happy as he found the chunk of plaster with a coin inside on his garagefloor and oil had flowed out :shok: :blush:.I was embarrassed and told him i had forgot about the emergency repair i did and told him i would drive straight to yamaha dealer and buy him a new clutchcover and gasket. :blush:
Great story, love it, there must be thousands of them.
Noel
I wonder if he asked for his money back? :sarcastic:
I am not sure if I got exactly 75% of the way through as I am not sure how thick the metal is, I was very conservative with the grind. I could see JB weld flowing into the grind like a keyway as I was applying it though so that is good. It has lasted carb tuning on the center stand but that isn't much stress. Haven't gotten to test ride yet. You wouldn't happen to have raced the TT on an FJ, Cat? haha. If this doesn't hold I have also though of using yamabond 4 or a similar rubberlike gasket maker as it would have the flex to not crack and continue holding the oil in. Obviously the cases would still continue to crack so that is not a long term solution but if I go the way of new cases and rebuilding the transmission then that is a possibility for the short term. I got the motor back in through lifting and will definitely have to find an easier way to do that next time. I found one post that said 275lb for the motor and I don't think it was that heavy but it was certainly enough for me to not want to do it again.
The old fuel line ripped when I took the tank off before dropping the motor so I ordered fuel line with the same specifications from Mcmaster Carr naively thinking it would be that simple. Tried to install the fuel line and it kinked every way I tried to put it. Don't have a spring to put around it plus it wouldn't fit with the proper routing with a spring around it. Any of you guys had to replace fuel line yet? Suggestions on what to use/how to keep it from kinking?
I am also a little closer to figuring out what is wrong with the carbs. If I let it idle and then blip the throttle the revs shoot up to like 4k and then drop below idle. If I repeatedly blip the throttle it only goes up 2/3k and the revs don't drop below idle. It must be loading up at idle, which would be consistent with the carbs being a little wet if I take them off after idling. But, the sparkplugs are fairly white and changing the mixture screws eitherway does nothing. It runs well at idle and stays consistent but the loading up is odd. Maybe related to the midrange flatspot maybe not.
Cheers y'all.
All FJ spark plugs are supposed to be white. (unless you disconnect the vacuum advance)
It is disconnected due to it being dysfunctional and messing up the idle.
Quote from: ajacstern on July 22, 2020, 07:45:40 PM
I am not sure if I got exactly 75% of the way through as I am not sure how thick the metal is, I was very conservative with the grind. I could see JB weld flowing into the grind like a keyway as I was applying it though so that is good. It has lasted carb tuning on the center stand but that isn't much stress. Haven't gotten to test ride yet. You wouldn't happen to have raced the TT on an FJ, Cat? haha. If this doesn't hold I have also though of using yamabond 4 or a similar rubberlike gasket maker as it would have the flex to not crack and continue holding the oil in. Obviously the cases would still continue to crack so that is not a long term solution but if I go the way of new cases and rebuilding the transmission then that is a possibility for the short term. I got the motor back in through lifting and will definitely have to find an easier way to do that next time. I found one post that said 275lb for the motor and I don't think it was that heavy but it was certainly enough for me to not want to do it again.
The old fuel line ripped when I took the tank off before dropping the motor so I ordered fuel line with the same specifications from Mcmaster Carr naively thinking it would be that simple. Tried to install the fuel line and it kinked every way I tried to put it. Don't have a spring to put around it plus it wouldn't fit with the proper routing with a spring around it. Any of you guys had to replace fuel line yet? Suggestions on what to use/how to keep it from kinking?
I am also a little closer to figuring out what is wrong with the carbs. If I let it idle and then blip the throttle the revs shoot up to like 4k and then drop below idle. If I repeatedly blip the throttle it only goes up 2/3k and the revs don't drop below idle. It must be loading up at idle, which would be consistent with the carbs being a little wet if I take them off after idling. But, the sparkplugs are fairly white and changing the mixture screws eitherway does nothing. It runs well at idle and stays consistent but the loading up is odd. Maybe related to the midrange flatspot maybe not.
Cheers y'all.
RPMs dropping below idle after the blip indicates running rich. Sounds like it gets worse as it warms up more - also indicates rich at idle. Make sure the "chokes" (actually enrichment circuit) are fully closed. If so, them try closing the idle screws maybe a 1/4 turn and see if it improves.
Haven't had a puddle of oil besides the FJ everyday for the first time, the JB weld seems to be holding well. Only been a week though so we will see. Had some fun when I went to test it out. I was 60 miles into the middle of nowhere when it felt like I ran out of fuel. Pulled over and saw that the fuel line had ripped apart for no apparent reason, fantastic. Was sitting at the side of the road for a few hours, but luckily there was good scenery. I have some thin-walled Viton line from McMaster Carr on there right now with line protectors over it to keep it from kinking too bad. I don't seem to be having fuel line issues even with the slight kink. I have a wrench and some spare line duct-taped to the back though. Ordered thick-walled fuel injector line and will see if that will do the carb bend without kinking. It is only rated for a max temp of 275f though, I can't imagine the carbs get that hot because gas boils at 185 but I would still rather it have a higher rating.
Got some sintered pads and installed them on the front today, night and day difference. It actually slows down when you hit the brakes! No way I am putting these on the rear, I don't need to break the rear free just coming to a stoplight. Super responsive and you can lock the front up with just two fingers. Thanks for the suggestion.
Can't get the carbs right though. I went all the way down to 1 turn out and the third clip on the needle and it still dropped below idle when blipping the throttle and stalled out when you pull the clutch in. Smelled very lean and had awful pull. Sitting at 3 turns out and 4.5 clip. Pulls pretty good, but definitely smells rich; stinks the whole garage up when I park it. Really struggles right at 4k, can't get acceleration in the higher gears. Above 5k feels perfect and the low end feels pretty decent too. Stalls out if I pull the clutch in while braking or when coming up to stoplights so I look like a noob in full leathers on the starter motor at stoplights. Idles fine though. Wonder if it might be the air bleed. The choke cable has no tension but I can see a sliver of the choke open in the slides area, I assume that is normal. The floats are all less than 0.5mm off from spec measured per the forum post detailing this.
Also, I forgot to include that I had perfect timing on installing the brakes today. The first ride I went out to test them on I was on the main road and a white pickup on a side road intersecting mine stared me down and then proceeded to pull out right in front of me. Was looking through me I guess. Definitely a good test of the brakes and they did pass, had 10ft to spare.