It seems to me I was just poking around here, and it was mentioned that the Vance and Hines exhaust had to be removed from an FJ to change the oil.
WTF? You have got to be kidding me.
If it is true, what is the drill? New exhaust gaskets on hand, never-seize on the bolts, is it a couple beers job or, a six pack? This is starting to sound like a great place for full synthetic 10W40 oil, and a once a year oil change.
While it is fresh on my mind, do you guys put never seize on the spark plugs?
Thanks in advance.
Ted
Quote from: Ted Schefelbein on May 03, 2020, 10:08:40 AM
While it is fresh on my mind, do you guys put never seize on the spark plugs?
Uh oh ....... wait for it .....
Here we go again....
Ssshhhhhh..... now back away slowly.... :mocking:
And, just like that, it appears I have once again walked on my dick.....
Ted
Oh come on guys...Ted's a FNG, let's help him out....
1) Not needed on the anti seize...(see #3)
2) Only use m/c oil that is safe for your wet clutch. What ever flavor you like.
3) When you can't get access to the oil drain bolt, drain your oil by removing the left side oil cooler line from the oil pan. Buy a handful of o rings and replace the o ring on the pan fitting every other or every 3rd drain.
Done, done and done...
Next.....
Pat, I think you missed what everyone else saw...
Quote from: Ted Schefelbein on May 03, 2020, 10:08:40 AM
While it is fresh on my mind, do you guys put never seize on the spark plugs?
Ted
Quote from: CutterBill on May 03, 2020, 11:19:25 AM
Here we go again....
Bill, I don't recall, is this the one we agree to disagree?
God damn, can you believe it was almost two years to the day of Ted's question... :bomb:
Randy - RPM
Thank you, Pat. Now, of late, I haven't had a motorcycle, and my preference is to semi synthetic motor oils, related to tests done by Ford Motor Company, that revealed combustion deposits do not de solve in full synthetic motor oil, and semi synthetic is recommended in newer F series trucks with the Ecoboost engine, for that reason.
So, that is what I use, there. The Wife's Malibu gets whatever is on sale, usually Super-Tech conventional, and the 1967 442 gets a conventional 10W-40 with a shot of Zinc additive. That car sits about half the year, and I'm not interested in a synthetic oil finding all my leaks for me in that motor.
Are one of the house brand synthetics recommended for wet clutches? I probably should find a Kevlar helmet for this next question, but do you guys remember a product called Ring Free, that was sold by Yamaha dealers? I used to follow the "Shock" directions on the bottle in the last tank of fuel before an oil change.
It was good stuff.
Ted
All I will say is use a m/c oil that is safe for wet clutches.
I use a 15w-50 ester base stock full synthetic oil (Red Line) because I live in the desert and on a toasty summer day, my oil can get 280-300*F. Over the years I have used other oils and over the course of a long ride or a multi state tour, I have found them to burn off, but not so with the Red Line oil.
Everyone has their favorite flavor.
Most all of us agree to beware of automotive oils that has friction modifiers which do not play well with wet clutches.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 03, 2020, 12:27:31 PM
Everyone has their favorite flavor.
Most all of us agree to beware of automotive oils that has friction modifiers which do not play well with wet clutches.
Ted, you can leave me out of the "most" for which Pat refers... :bomb: :bomb: :bomb:
Also, for the record, Pat's clutch never slipped using automotive oil even when we went up to 1400cc... :scratch_one-s_head:
Randy - RPM
LOL.....great thread starter Ted :good2:
Back in the early days of my FJ ownership, I had access to free Silkolene Pro 4 synthetic motorcycle oils and I used them in my bikes with no noticeable effects. When I joined the UK FJOC, they recommended Morris Oils Ring Free 20w50 (mineral, not synthetic) and that's what I've been using for about 25 years now. No reason to want to change type or brand.
When I had my Eagle/Cobra exhaust (I think it may have been a brand engineering thing with V & H when they weren't well known in Europe), I had the same problem as you and did what Pat suggested earlier, pretty straightforward.
Re the plugs - never have, and never will, use anti seize on a spark plug. Just don't leave them in unchecked long enough for them to seize in place. One of mine did come loose on my 1TX after a Yamaha "dealer" service - I could hear a strange "chuffing"/"phutting" noise at tickover when I got the bike home after picking it up from the dealer (approx 20 miles). I lifted the tank off and it was pretty obvious what had happened, so I tightened the plug up and re-checked the other 3 (they were all good). Never had a problem since but never used that dealer since either !
Quote from: Ted Schefelbein on May 03, 2020, 10:08:40 AMIt seems to me I was just poking around here, and it was mentioned that the Vance and Hines exhaust had to be removed from an FJ to change the oil. WTF? You have got to be kidding me.
If it is true, what is the drill? New exhaust gaskets on hand, never-seize on the bolts, is it a couple beers job or, a six pack? This is starting to sound like a great place for full synthetic 10W40 oil, and a once a year oil change.
Thanks in advance.
Ted
Ted,
Yep, it's true; you can't access the oil drain plug, with the V&H headers in place. I slide the muffler off, loosen the headers at the head studs as much as possible, and
gently lower the pipes to a solid support, so as not to damage the brittle pipe-gaskets. My pipes are black anyway, so I just remove the drain plug and let the old oil drain over the pipes. I wipe the pipes clean with paper towels, and install everything again. There will be
some oil smoke for a short while after the job, but nothing terrible. RPM has better headers (see/click the top banner here), which do allow an oil change without removing the headers. An oil change with V&H headers is certainly
not a six-pack job. I could remove the headers entirely first, sure, but it's a bear to get them installed again, after the oil change. I could also protect the pipes from the drain oil using aluminum foil, bent to cover the pipes and channel the oil to each side of the assembly, but to me, a little oil smoke is not very important.
It's a good idea to install a new crush washer, when needed. I think VWs use the same size, so you can match them up with an old one at the local parts store.
Friction-modified ("fuel efficient") oils can cause your clutch to slip, so read the labels first. I use full synthetic motorcycle oil, for the longer change intervals.
.
QuoteI use full synthetic motorcycle oil, for the longer change intervals.
I also use synthetic oil. Why? It supposedly far exceeds the performance properties of regular oils.
BUT........
Why do we change our oil? And why do we do it (hopefully) at regular service intervals? BECAUSE what ever oil you are using gets DIRTY! So changing it regularly helps keep clean oil in your engine and thus less wear.
What ever oil you are using the longer the interval the more dirt it collects.
One of the major selling points for buying synthetics by the manufacturers was synthetics had a longer interval between oil changes. Our oil lasts longer so you don't have to change it as often. A myth that has been repeated for decades. Synthetic gets dirty at the same rate as regular oil.
I think any of todays oils are pretty good. As long as you change the oil and filter regularly.
I use Shell Rotella 15W40 diesel oil. Every Walmart has it, and it's JASO-MA certified, meaning it's correct for wet clutches and gearboxes.
The chart in the manual says you can use 20W50 or 10W30 between 40F and 60F, and stick to heavier oil over 60. 15W40 is pretty much splitting the difference.
Wasn't the old story that Yamaha's Ring-Free was just Techron relabeled?
On my yamahas i only use the liquid engine component yamalube . it is not a oil it is a yamaha engine component.
https://global.yamaha-motor.com/about/technology/power_source/007/
I have used Shell Rotella in my race bikes, BUT, it gets changed after every 2 or 3 days of track use. Guess what? It looks like it has 5000 miles on it instead of 300-400. There's no blow by going on, just a lot of high RPM use. Also temps contribute to the issue as well. I have since changed to Motul 10w40 and after the same use it looks more like it should. The FJ's air cooled engine is probably just as hard on oil, maybe even worse.
My baseline in both my '91 Miata and my '89 FJ1200 has been Mobil 1 15w-50. Toward the end of an oil change interval, the Miata's hydraulic lifters would get noisy and the FJ's shifting would get worse. As both engines wore and started to use oil, both symptoms would get worse as the oil level got low, topping them off with a fresh quart would help.
I've tried Rotella, since it's usually substantially cheaper than other synthetic oils. It may be perfect in some vehicles, but the Miata lifters were noisy on start-up and the FJ shifted like it was a quart low from the very beginning. Before long, I drained the Rotella and refilled with Mobil 1 and both vehicles were back to what felt like "proper operation." (These are not scientific or measurable results, for all I know they both made more power on Rotella. But both were miserable to use.)
My own weird superstition / conspiracy theory: when I have used Mobil 1 from WalMart, I have had the same results as Rotella - "this sounds / feels AWFUL." Maybe I got a bad batch? Tried it enough times, I am pretty convinced I could tell the difference in a blind test, "this Mobil 1 15w-50 came from WalMart, this other stuff came from the auto parts store." I don't know if it is still the case, I don't actually know (because no measurements were taken) that it was actually the case at the time. All I know is, I have tried Mobil 1 from WalMart enough times that I don't bother trying to save the five bucks any more, I just go to the auto parts store and buy my oil and filters there.
There are a variety of oils out there that are supposedly more special than Mobil 1. There's Royal Purple (it's ROYAL! It HAS to be great!) and Silkolene (because what is smoother than silk?) and Redline (which needs three exclamation points) and I think there's some special stuff I'm supposed to use in the Ducati, I guess Italian craftsmen stomp the olives with their bare feet every autumn? - and maybe I'll one day try them all. But for now, everything gets Mobil 1. I'm going to try 0w-40 in the FJ and see if it still feels like it should, or if it all leaks out or burns off inside, or what.
Thank you for posting about the Yamaha oil. It made for very interesting reading. I use Yamalube when I break in new/rebuilt FJ engines. Then I use the fancy synthetic that RPM is selling.
I strongly advice for anyone to read the Yamaha oil information site.
Quote from: Old Rider on May 04, 2020, 06:53:02 AM
On my yamahas i only use the liquid engine component yamalube . it is not a oil it is a yamaha engine component.
https://global.yamaha-motor.com/about/technology/power_source/007/
Quote from: Old Rider on May 04, 2020, 06:53:02 AM
On my yamahas i only use the liquid engine component yamalube . it is not a oil it is a yamaha engine component.
https://global.yamaha-motor.com/about/technology/power_source/007/
:good2:
I'm hoping to be able to devise a large banjo type bolt to a hose or pipe to make a remote drain from the bottom on the pan.
Maybe with one of those fancy quick release valves.
I have a 4-1 I plan on using with the motor I'm working on, and I'm going to want to be able to easily change that oil.
The oil cooler line might be a fine workaround.
I've never had a problem using a small amount of anti-seize on my spark plugs.
I don't tug on Superman's cape.
I don't spit into the wind
I don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And I don't mess around with Slim
Carson City Paul has a neat solution for a oil drain.
Paul, send me your picts and I will post them.
You might ask FJscott to shoot you some photos. While we had the oil pan off of his new to him FJ with the V&H we welded an AN bung into the oil pan on the bottom. This allows you to cap it and simply remove the cap when you want to change the oil. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-967108erl?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwncT1BRDhARIsAOQF9LlPE_9BO2lLSjAq3ePY1FqL9jJxGk9hxSwoytwo7mKDpHG6Sqq8mPcaAlUdEALw_wcB (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-967108erl?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwncT1BRDhARIsAOQF9LlPE_9BO2lLSjAq3ePY1FqL9jJxGk9hxSwoytwo7mKDpHG6Sqq8mPcaAlUdEALw_wcB) You want a flush weld one so it will allow all the oil to drain out. If you get the ones that rise into the pan you will always have a small amount of oil in the pan.
Here is a external welded aluminum bung....that way there would be no lip on the inside to trap oil.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0050/9952/0049/products/IMG_5633_1024x1024.jpg?v=1569261511)
https://fueltankparts.com/products/stamped-weld-on-tank-fitting-aluminum-1-8-thru-2-npt
Here is Carson City Paul's plug and play oil drain extension solution (no pan removal, no welding)
His first version at top, the current version with strain relief at bottom.
Paul is a conservative machinist. The thought of a dangling cantilever oil tube subject to engine vibrations, made him nervous, so he designed a strain relief to support the extension tube.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/49_05_05_20_11_45_40.jpeg)
The 2 strain relief brackets bolt to the outside of the oil line pan fitting.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/49_05_05_20_11_49_10.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/49_05_05_20_11_40_49.jpeg)
He really does nice work. Kudos :good:
Just for reference, I would like to see pix of the inside of the oil pan, with or without the drain fitting installed.
I don't have pix like that, here.
Thanks.
Lots of great information :good2:
Quote from: red on May 05, 2020, 01:37:29 PM
Just for reference, I would like to see pix of the inside of the oil pan, with or without the drain fitting installed.
I don't have pix like that, here.
Thanks.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16749.msg169777#msg169777 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16749.msg169777#msg169777)
Randy - RPM
That is very nice work. It looks like something I'd put on my air compressor, not my motorcycle.
True story. Riding to work at 6:00AM, perhaps 2 decades ago, on a 750 GSXR, locked into place in a traffic jam going 80mph. Just ahead, I see something round bouncing through traffic, heading backward in my lane. It was a chunk of concrete, and it centered up on my bike in a fraction of a second. It impacted in the front somewhere, I got quite a start, but, everything seemed fine, and there was nothing I could do anyway. I looked it over (quickly, in the dark) when I got to work. Didn't think about it again, until I tried to get the right caliper off for a brake job. The rotor had been folded over by the impact at one point, and I never saw it. A little bit more and I'm guessing it could have been a full on stoppy, at speed.
Shook me up. New rotors, needless to say.
Less is more. No oil pipes for me. The left side oil cooler line it is. If anybody has a size or part number for the O rings, I'd be much obliged.
Ted
Quote from: racerrad8 on May 05, 2020, 06:22:52 PM
Quote from: red on May 05, 2020, 01:37:29 PMJust for reference, I would like to see pix of the inside of the oil pan, with or without the drain fitting installed.
I don't have pix like that, here. Thanks.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16749.msg169777#msg169777 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16749.msg169777#msg169777)
Randy - RPM
Randy,
Thanks, that helps.
The last post in that thread was wondering how only the top threads of the spark plug hole were galled and torn up. My guess would be that somebody cross-threaded the plug going in, and tried to force it. They took out the top threads with the plug, and then tried again and got it going in straight. Just a guess.
.
Quote from: Ted Schefelbein on May 05, 2020, 07:34:07 PM
...Less is more. No oil pipes for me. The left side oil cooler line it is. If anybody has a size or part number for the O rings, I'd be much obliged.
With the oil drain tube tucked up between the #2 and #3 header tubes, there is no danger of snagging the tube. In fact, with a 4-1 header and a center merge collector, you will have all 4 header tubes hang lower than the oil drain tube.
I forgot to mention, the left oil cooler line removal for oil drain trick only works with stock FJ oil cooler hard line.
If you have the RPM oil cooler with the Army/Navy fittings, or other aftermarket cooler with AN lines, there is no room between the thicker AN pan fitting and the header tube to pull the oil pan fitting out of the oil pan.
At least, if found this to be true with a 4-1 Kerker header on my old '92. I never had a VH header..
#6 on the diagram: https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1990/fj1200a/oil-cooler (https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1990/fj1200a/oil-cooler)
Cheers
Pat,
Thanks. That is a really nice piece of machine work Paul did.
I have the stock oil cooler, and I'd bet just leaving the bike on the side stand and removing the left oil cooler line is going to work just fine. I'm going to run some kind of fuel system cleaner through it, soon, and then change the oil. Pretty sure the previous owner had the bike on Mobile 1.
I'm 0 and 1 with Partszilla. Ordered parts that never came. They weren't in any hurry to ship it, seems like it was two or three days. They have some shipping scheme where UPS hands it off to the mailman. The guys at RPM get off their asses, and ship the stuff, in a flat rate box, the same day I order it, and it arrives in a couple of days. Had a missing part, in one order, one email had it straightened out. Great service.
I like them better, so far.
Thanks again, Pat. Every question I've ever asked, you answered to the best of your ability. I really appreciate it.
Ted
You are correct that RPM shipping is fast as can be.....a difference between Partszilla and RPM: If it's listed on the RPM site, it's in stock...with Partszilla you order it, they take your money *then* a day or two later they tell you the part is on back order.
Cheers
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 06, 2020, 09:46:22 AM
You are correct that RPM shipping is fast as can be.....a difference between Partszilla and RPM: If it's listed on the RPM site, it's in stock...with Partszilla you order it, they take your money *then* a day or two later they tell you the part is on back order.
Cheers
I've had good luck with Partzilla for my other bikes.
Like many, I try to spend as much as I can locally.
Then there is convenience - It's nice having parts delivered.
RPM does a good job, they're quick.
Quote from: JPaganel on May 04, 2020, 03:34:34 AM
I use Shell Rotella 15W40 diesel oil. Every Walmart has it, and it's JASO-MA certified, meaning it's correct for wet clutches and gearboxes.
The chart in the manual says you can use 20W50 or 10W30 between 40F and 60F, and stick to heavier oil over 60. 15W40 is pretty much splitting the difference.
I was thinking of switching to 15-40 today too. It does seem in the middle of the witch way do I go. In the end I just went back to Lucas 20-50 syn. It gets 110 out in my area and I could use all the heat absorption I can get.