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General Category => Maintenance => Topic started by: ajacstern on February 10, 2020, 05:28:14 PM

Title: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on February 10, 2020, 05:28:14 PM
Hi guys,

Recently picked up an FJ1200 in really bad shape. Crashed, brake fluid spilled on it, then left to rot for 20 years. I just cleaned the carburetors and put them back on but there is a ton of fuel leaking out of the white connector on the left side. The one that I think is supposed to be connected to the vacuum advance. The pipe doesn't seem to want to fit on the junction so that might not be it. The original airbox was removed. Is fuel supposed to come out of the white T-junction?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Tuned forks on February 10, 2020, 06:50:02 PM
You may want to specify which year FJ you have.

Joe
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 10, 2020, 07:01:59 PM
I suspect you are talking about the fuel bowl vent T's..... no, that is not normal, that is abby normal.
You have
1) Float level set incorrectly
2) a float that does not float
3) a stuck float,
4) bad float needle seat O ring,
5) crap in your float needle seat from the crap in your dirty fuel tank...
6) any or all the above ^^^...

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=46.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=46.0)

Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on February 10, 2020, 08:21:53 PM
It's a 1987. Think you are right that it is a float level problem as the metering needle has a bit of a pool of gasoline around it. I only have one spare float so I'll replace the one that looks the worst on that t-junction and see if that fixes it. Order the other three if not. Anyone have tricks for gettings the carbs on? I found a pry bar works for getting them off but it's near impossible to get them back on to the boots even with motor oil as lube. Also one of the four slides has a flat (square) bottom the other three are stock, do you think this would affect much?

Sadly the gas tank is beyond dirty, I tried soldering in the numerous holes on the top of the tank and then the bottom blew out when I was testing if it would hold gas, answered my question for sure. When I press the engine start button nothing happens just the fuel light comes on. I can turn the engine over by jumping the solenoid but the starter button doesn't do anything. Will the bike not start with the fuel sending unit disconnected or should I just troubleshoot the starter relay circuit?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 10, 2020, 09:40:49 PM
Heat gun: Heat up the intake boots, get them hot to the touch, that will expand them and soften up the rubber... now, straddle the bike so you can get some power out of your arms while you evenly push on the carb rack....put the carb lips into the manifold boots and wiggle the carb bank up and down while you push hard...you should feel a click as the carbs seat into the intake manifold.

Floats: just fill up a bowl with water and hold the float under water and see if any bubbles appear, then hold the float under water for a couple of days....see if it fills up with water.
Actually, I've never had a problem with a gas logged float on a FJ...on Honda's yes...FJ's no.

Slides: Your 1987 should have the carb slides with the curved bottoms. The single carb with a flat bottom slide came from a different FJ, a 1984/85 FJ1100.  The emulsion tubes (aka needle jets) are different between the flat slides and curved slides...sounds like you have a mish mash.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to recommend to you to get professional help on those carbs. If you are located in North America I would recommend you contact Robert at RPM (see banner at top) to see about a untrasonic deep cleaning and an evaluation.

You have your hands full with that old girl, get some help on your carbs...one less thing to worry about.

Don't  get discouraged....we can find you a tank. We are glad you are restoring that bike. Kudos!

Cheers

Pat.



Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Millietant on February 11, 2020, 02:17:18 AM
Regarding the starting, when the dashboard lights come on when pressing the starter button, it's usually a clutch switch or kill-switch problem as it sounds like you're just not getting power to the starter motor. You don't say if the neutral light, or oil levels lights are on or not, before you press the starter button - presumably they are ?
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ribbert on February 11, 2020, 07:26:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 10, 2020, 09:40:49 PM

Floats: just fill up a bowl with water and hold the float under water and see if any bubbles appear, then hold the float under water for a couple of days....see if it fills up with water.

Pat.






Pat, do you want to have another crack at that?

Noel
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 11, 2020, 10:09:22 AM
Keep the float under water for a couple of days....don't hold it...
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on February 11, 2020, 11:50:12 AM
Thanks for all the tips guys! Carbs were definitely in a bad way but all the jets and passageways are clean now, had to use heat on a couple pilot jets they were so clogged. The gunk boiled out. I think they are the wrong jetting as they have a #140 main and a 37.5 pilot, I think they use a #112.5 and a 40 normally. The airbox is removed so maybe that is why it was rejetted, see how it runs when it runs to see if I will change the jetting. I checked the floats for holes and didn't see anything but that is a good point that I should check if they are still floating or not. I had to replace the neutral safety switch as it literally melted out of the bike but the neutral light came on after the replacement. If I remember correctly the oil level light doesn't come on but I might be mistaken. When I press the starter button only the fuel light comes on everything else turns off. I don't hear any clicks either.

Looking at an FJ1100 tank as they are more available and slightly larger. I found a forum post here saying they are direct bolt ons to the 87 (The petcock mounting bolts are the same?), are the FJ1200 fuel caps compatible with FJ1100 tank?

Cheers.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Millietant on February 11, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
The 1200's all came with flush-mount fillers,  but the 1100 didn't, so I'd guess the answer on the filler cap swap will be a no, sorry.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: balky1 on February 12, 2020, 12:20:56 AM
And caps for 1100 tank are hard to find, while 1200 caps are readily available.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on February 12, 2020, 09:42:30 AM
Okay, I think I am going to end up getting an 1100 tank all the same and then welding in the flush fuel cap section from the 1200 tank. The price difference between the 1100 and 1200 is big enough that it will still be cheaper. Does anyone know good PPG/duplicolor/whatever alternatives to the 1987 colors? I tried to get 00AJ (stormy red), 00GE (silky white), and 0033 (Yamaha Black) mixed but it doesn't seem to be in any of the auto places databases. Colorrite is far too expensive for this project.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ribbert on February 15, 2020, 07:10:50 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 10, 2020, 09:40:49 PM

Floats: just fill up a bowl with water and hold the float under water and see if any bubbles appear, then hold the float under water for a couple of days....see if it fills up with water.
Actually, I've never had a problem with a gas logged float on a FJ...on Honda's yes...FJ's no.

Pat.

Fuel has smaller molecules than water (about 25% I think) so it will flow through openings water won't. There are all sorts of widely available products from funnels to inline filters that that work on that principle, allowing a free flow of fuel but blocking water.

If you want to hold it under water looking for bubbles, make the water very hot so the air inside the float heats up and forces the air out under pressure, making it easier to see.

But really, if it's been leaking, it will have fuel in it, just put it up to your ear and shake it!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49533390768_601fd80ea7_z.jpg)


Noel
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: racerrad8 on February 15, 2020, 12:37:00 PM
Quote from: ribbert on February 15, 2020, 07:10:50 AM
But really, if it's been leaking, it will have fuel in it, just put it up to your ear and shake it!
Noel

Noel, you must have the most excellent hearing in the world to hear the fuel sloshing in the cellulose micro pockets within the FJ float.

I mean I know I can hear it in the old school carbs with brass floats that are hollow inside. But the FJ floats are completely different technology and that "diagnostic" process won't work for these floats.
(unless you have the bestest, mostest, excellent hearing in the world)

Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 15, 2020, 04:26:37 PM
Well shit, holding it underwater always worked fine for my bicycle tire inner tube.....and my toilet float...

I never thought of molecule size.... so Randy how do you check the floats? Bubbles? Weight?
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: racerrad8 on February 15, 2020, 05:19:19 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 15, 2020, 04:26:37 PM
... so Randy how do you check the floats? Bubbles? Weight?

We do not liquid check the Mikuni floats. Visual inspection and if the cellulose material has any imperfections they are replaced. They will continue to float even when damaged because they are cellulose, but I worry about float material degradation when the smooth outer surface is damaged.

Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ZOA NOM on February 15, 2020, 07:32:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 15, 2020, 04:26:37 PM
Well shit, holding it underwater always worked fine for my bicycle tire inner tube.....and my toilet float...

Works a treat on terrorists too!
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 16, 2020, 01:52:09 AM
Thanks Randy  :good:

Rick, Rick, Rick.....  :hang1:

Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on February 17, 2020, 10:28:25 AM
Ah, good to know that about these floats. The surface on one is a little bit scratched up, looks like from sandpaper or maybe scotchbrite. Would that cause an issue? It is still flat just lightly scratched.

Had to chase around some electrical gremlins as the rats turned the wiring harness into a meal, does anyone know what the connector to the flasher relay + safety cutoff relay (the one beneath the cowling on the left side) is called? It is severely damaged but I am not sure what to replace it with. I got the bike running on starter fluid. Sounded good but died on anything but no throttle and full choke (which is to be expected with carb issues). Air was blowing out from somewhere on the right side near the carb boot to cylinder junction not sure what that is yet. I replaced the carb needles and valve seats and sadly still a leak. This time out of the float bowl drain instead of the t junction, so I'd call that progress. Also, the heat gun trick worked quite well to get the carbs on, thanks! I want to change the jetting out now as it is way off. The original airbox was removed and replaced with K&N filters, does anyone know what jet sizes work well with these? If the bike is jetted a bit lean from factory I might move up a size.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on February 17, 2020, 12:42:26 PM
I would predict continued frustration until you get 4 carbs that are the same. 
Does the carb with a flat bottom slide have a shrouded needle jet (emulsion tube). 
Maybe the PO got cheap and replaced the curved slide with a flat one.  Are all 4 needles the same?

From what I recall, the needle shape and jetting was WAY different between the flat bottom slides and the curved slides
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on February 18, 2020, 10:09:15 AM
The needle shape is definitely different, I will switch out the wrong slide but all of the jetting is wrong. Just not sure whether to put in stock jets or one size up.

Starting to look at tires to put on the bike and the selection of 16" tires is very disappointing. Considering the GSXR rear wheel conversion to 17". A little confused about the mod though as some people say it is a bolt up mod and usable with just the GSXR rim and FJ spacers. Others say that there is a mounting bar for the rear caliper bracket that you need to change to a footpeg attachment but the bolt will shear off so you need to custom make a Z bracket. Anyone have experience with this? Also, I only have the 16" front wheel, can I use the 16" front with a 17"

Thanks. 
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on February 29, 2020, 03:20:23 PM
Okay, got all the carb slides and needles the same and she runs like hot garbage. Only starts with starter spray and only runs on full choke w/ no throttle. Smokes a ton, which was helpful in identifying an air leak. The carb inlet boots are melted where they meet with the engine so will be replacing those. Will be switching the jets from 37.5/140 to 40/115. Not sure what the PO was doing with jetting but it is way off, probably why the bike overheated.

Looking to replace the rubber brake and clutch lines as they are definitely overdue. The clutch lines goes from soft line to hard line and then back again, would I be okay switching it to all soft line? I can get generic steel braided or rubber soft line so that would be the easiest route. There are no hydraulic shops that make brake lines in my state it seems. Not sure what Yamaha was doing with the front brake line routing. It goes from the MC to an l-bracket with double banjo and then the calipers are double banjo'd to the anti-dive system. Why not just do a double banjo bolt at the MC and skip the l-bracket? What I plan on doing is removing the l-bracket, replacing the anti-dive line with a regular bolt, and going double banjo from MC to calipers. Anybody know any decent places that make custom lines? I believe the sizes for the 87 FJ's are 31" and 33" in the front and 42.5" for the clutch. 
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 29, 2020, 03:51:15 PM
Spiegler makes custom lines.
https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/custom-brake-lines.html

I have Spiegler lines on all the bikes I've worked on...expensive but worth it. Spiegler banjo's can be clocked (turned) so to assure that you have zero line twist. I use a piece of #12 electrical wire to verify line length.

Where my 1 piece clutch line runs next to my hot engine, I wrap the Spiegler line with foil HVAC tape.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Tuned forks on February 29, 2020, 03:56:15 PM
The brake hoses that Pat mentions are available from our sponsor, RPM.  Yes, as with many things for old machines, they are expensive.  Quality rarely comes cheaply.

https://www.rpmracingca.com/products.asp?cat=23&pg=3 (https://www.rpmracingca.com/products.asp?cat=23&pg=3)

I used them on the '90 FJ and they work fine.  The clutch hose replaces your stock hard line, per your question.

Joe

Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on March 21, 2020, 07:55:01 PM
Have had plenty of time at home with what's happening recently so been able to get some work done on the FJ. She is running well, no smoke and starts easy. Need to sync the carbs so I am working on making one of those bottle carb tools but I have a feeling I am going to have to take the carbs off again and bench sync as they got pretty far off when I tried syncing them with an attempted carb tool that failed horribly.

Working on getting the rear wheel rolling, got the tire off after a lot of fighting. Rolled my car onto it three times and that didn't pop the bead, had to jack up the car and drop it onto the tire twice to finally get it off. Obviously didn't start trying to break the bead with my car, but c-clamp, tire irons, and the kickstand of another bike did nothing. After I got the beads off still had to fight to get it off the rim, ended up cutting it in the end which would have made the whole process a lot easier if I just started with that. 30°F weather + rubber that has been sitting in the sun for 30 years = bad time. Definitely going to replace the brake lines for those spieglers, thanks for the suggestion.

Trying to get the rear wheel bearings out, one of them is rusted in. It's the one on the rotor side which as far as I can tell is the only one you can move the spacer a bit to get to. I can't move the spacer very far though, I can only get a little bit of lip and the lip that I can get is tapered. No matter what I try my punch just keeps slipping off it. I've tried making custom punches but it just keeps slipping off. Any ideas? Obviously a bearing puller would be ideal or even an expandable bolt but I don't have either of those and I'm trying to avoid making trips to hardware stores.

Stay safe.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Motofun on March 22, 2020, 07:58:44 AM
Park makes a tool for knocking out bearings.  It's like a long punch but the end that engages the bearing is split into four prongs that splay out.  You slip the tool through the hollow shaft until the splayed ends engage the bearing , then use a hammer to knock out the bearing.  The tool was designed for bicycle head stock bearings but work on MCs too..Tried to find a picture of it on their website but no luck.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Pat Conlon on March 22, 2020, 10:37:08 AM
RPM makes it easy for us....
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Tools%3ABearingRemover (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Tools%3ABearingRemover)
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on April 18, 2020, 07:53:33 PM
Got the FJ out the other day and I'm pretty impressed. The power is insane compared to the dirtbikes I'm used to. It seems to have stopped burning oil all by itself so that works for me. Found two new problems, the clutch slips and there is a ticking sound dependant on engine speed. I am assuming it is either a cam chain issue or a loose valve. Not sure whether the clutch is slipping due to worn plates or bad spring, will have to open it up and check. Do you not have to drain the oil if you put the bike on the side stand? The front brakes suck but I am not sure if I want to buy new braided steel lines now or wait until I can get a later model front end with 17' wheel and put blue dot calipers on it. If I get brake lines now will they be compatible with an 89+ front end with blue dots? Ended up buying the tool to knock the old wheel bearings out, thanks for the suggestions.

I also had an issue that I thought was a vacuum leak. It would idle fine, but as soon as the motor got warm it would jump from 1000rpm to nearly 3k. Tracked it down to the vacuum advance. I unplugged it and the bike seems to work fine. Is there any way to rebuild/recalibrate them? Any reason I shouldn't drive around with it unplugged?

Cheers.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Millietant on April 18, 2020, 08:29:50 PM
If you get blue spot calipers on any FJ, the brake lines have to be changed due to the different angles between the brake line banjo mounting points on the FJ calipers vs the blue spots.

If you get the braided lines for your standard FJ brakes, make sure you get ones where you can loosen off and rotate the bottom banjo fittings so you can use them with the blue spots when you change to them  - not sure if the RPM lines are like that or not.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: andyoutandabout on April 18, 2020, 10:28:07 PM
Ahh yes and no on the blue dots. Yes the newer blue dots have a different angled fitting. I bought some that had this and was so angry that I used my rage to twist the existing braided lines and forced them to fit. Probably not the best idea, but they've been problem free for about 100,000 miles now.
However, the older blue dots from Yzf600s do have the same fitment orientation, so you could just get a set of those if you're on a budget.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Bill_Rockoff on April 19, 2020, 07:42:24 AM
>> Got the FJ out the other day and I'm pretty impressed. The power is insane compared to the dirtbikes I'm used to.
It should be, unless you've ridden Paris-Dakar. A stock FJ is over 100 hp at the wheel, and there are some simple/common mods to get 10% more.


>>Do you not have to drain the oil if you put the bike on the side stand?
You do not. I did mine on the side stand and didn't lose any oil. I can't remember if that was with extra rear ride height from the aftermarket shock, or if that was back when it was completely stock. Putting a wheel on a thin piece of plywood might help you get a little more lean when it's on the sidestand.

Re: ticking sound - it might be something slightly wrong, or it might be that these are just much noisier engines than modern liquid-cooled I4s tend to be.

>>The front brakes suck
Fresh fluid will help, maybe scuffing the surface of the pads will help a bit too, for now.

>>Tracked it down to the vacuum advance. I unplugged it and the bike seems to work fine.
Do you mean that you pulled off the vacuum line and left it open? Or did you block it with something? If it's open, you're pulling air through the carb intake boot *after* the carb, so you're letting in air that isn't getting fuel mixed with it. If the bike is running *better* that way, something else is wrong in the carbs.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: T Legg on April 19, 2020, 08:54:40 AM
It could be that the tci is bad and is leaking air into the vacume line when it is attached.  You could do a suck test to see if it's leaking. The advance function of the tci is only to improve emissions.leaving it dissconnected with the vacume port plugged won't affect performance.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on April 19, 2020, 08:11:37 PM
Ah, I see. Stinks about the brake lines. Would swivel fittings remedy the angle issue, or is it more about 90° vs 45° bend in the fitting? The place I am looking at getting lines from charges per line, so I don't think I will get the two extra lines for the anti-dives as I imagine they are hardly worth the $60 it would cost, I can't tell if they do anything or not. Might also replace the brake pads but I heard the HH sintered causes problems with early FJ rotors.

Good to know you don't have to drain the oil to work on the clutch. Looks like doubling up on the spring is a pretty common mod. I don't plan on switching the clutch master cylinder to a 14mm anytime soon as I just rebuilt it, so can anyone say if the EBC + used oem spring is decent in terms of clutch pull? The bike smells strongly of burnt clutch so at least there is some fiber plate left, or maybe there was some fiber plate.

I am pretty sure the ticking sound is coming from the valve area, could be a worn valve guide or camchain issue. I ordered new valve cover grommets so I'll pull the cover and check everything. I blocked off the intake vacuum port with a spare plug I had. I tested the vacuum advance with a syringe and it seems to be thinking there is too much vacuum at idle, looks like there is no real way to rebuild these and they are expensive so I will let it go for now. Are these bikes supposed to have a rev limiter? The clutch slipped and the tacho went straight to 12 or 13k, investigated by revving the bike in neutral and never heard it dinging off the limiter but didn't want to hold the throttle open for more than a split-second.

I can't find the 89+fj lowers anywhere, they are not an immediate item on the tasklist, but are there other lowers that work with stock uppers and same length? Might be easier and better to swap the entire forks plus you can get fancy USD forks, I heard the 91-93 FZR1000 USD forks are compatible but of course I can't find any of those for sale either.

Thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: RPM - Robert on April 19, 2020, 08:32:08 PM
The spiegler kits we sell will fit no problem. The adjustable ends work just fine with the blue spots.

We use, and sell 3-1, hh pads up front and standard organic in the rear. Again no problems with the HH pads. Some internet wizbang on Facebook probably made that up. Probably had leaky forks, leaking all over the pads and rotors but it was the pads fault.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on April 20, 2020, 12:17:24 AM
Checkout the options at VENHILL brake lines.  They are an easily customizable option
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Millietant on April 20, 2020, 03:28:02 AM
Yes, 91-93 USD forks/wheels etc are a straightforward fit, and if you use 01-05 FZ1 handlebars and risers, they fit with just a tiny bit of drilling and couple of 1" flat washers, to give the same grip position and angles as the FJ. Just need a little lock stop plate mounted to the brake splitter bolt holes and you're set to go. I tried my 92 USD's with the stock fork springs and it was generally OK, but for heavier loads and braking (2 up with luggage and steep downhill hairpin bends) it was a bit soft, so I switched to 0.95 straight-rate springs. The blue spots also fit the FZR forks with no mods at all  :good2:
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on April 27, 2020, 05:15:15 PM
Alright, ordered brake lines from Rennsportauto and FJR master cylinders. I also got the RPM clutch fibers and a new diaphragm spring. Finally got a new valve cover gasket so I checked the valve clearances and they are bad. I thought the previous owner did them recently as it is near the service interval and there is red sealant on the valve cover. No such luck, intake valves were tighter than 0.04mm (my smallest feeler gauge). Exhaust valves were in the 0.05mm range. Tried to get the shims out with an improvised valve tool but my thickest scrap metal just bent and wouldn't hold the buckets down. With the adjustment tools being as expensive as they are I think I will find another way. Why are these tools only $13 in Britain but $60+ here that doesn't make any sense. Might pull the cams if I can access the cam chain tensioner easily. Anyway, as I was turning the motor over I heard a strange sound (yay!), here is a link to a recording of it: https://photos.app.goo.gl/P2AEc5ZY4ieztawz5

The sound is a little quiet on camera but very audible when standing next to the bike. Sounds like it is coming from the right side. Think it is a valve with a poor seat or a bad valve seal, could also be normal and just the sound of air flowing. Anyone have this happen before? I should add that this is far louder than the hiss when turning a car engine over by hand, and seems to be exclusively coming from the right side. No PCV valve so I don't think it is that either. Might just be louder than your average engine or a slightly poorer seat on the right side, or no seat on the left side. There is also a scratch on the valve cover gasket surface which explains the red sealant. I only have yamabond or permatex ultra grey both of which are torque sealers so maybe not ideal for this purpose but they both dry so one of them should work.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: FJ1200W on April 27, 2020, 05:39:03 PM
Quote from: ajacstern on April 27, 2020, 05:15:15 PM
Alright, ordered brake lines from Rennsportauto and FJR master cylinders. I also got the RPM clutch fibers and a new diaphragm spring. Finally got a new valve cover gasket so I checked the valve clearances and they are bad. I thought the previous owner did them recently as it is near the service interval and there is red sealant on the valve cover. No such luck, intake valves were tighter than 0.04mm (my smallest feeler gauge). Exhaust valves were in the 0.05mm range. Tried to get the shims out with an improvised valve tool but my thickest scrap metal just bent and wouldn't hold the buckets down. With the adjustment tools being as expensive as they are I think I will find another way. Why are these tools only $13 in Britain but $60+ here that doesn't make any sense. Might pull the cams if I can access the cam chain tensioner easily. Anyway, as I was turning the motor over I heard a strange sound (yay!), here is a link to a recording of it: https://photos.app.goo.gl/P2AEc5ZY4ieztawz5

The sound is a little quiet on camera but very audible when standing next to the bike. Sounds like it is coming from the right side. Think it is a valve with a poor seat or a bad valve seal, could also be normal and just the sound of air flowing. Anyone have this happen before? I should add that this is far louder than the hiss when turning a car engine over by hand, and seems to be exclusively coming from the right side. No PCV valve so I don't think it is that either. Might just be louder than your average engine or a slightly poorer seat on the right side, or no seat on the left side. There is also a scratch on the valve cover gasket surface which explains the red sealant. I only have yamabond or permatex ultra grey both of which are torque sealers so maybe not ideal for this purpose but they both dry so one of them should work.

Sounds like air leaking past something.

Are the plugs still in? Loose? If so, it may be them.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: Old Rider on April 28, 2020, 01:52:58 AM
you  can use a ziptie that is bendt like the one im holding in the picture to hold open the valve vhile replacing the shim.
I have done it many times before and on my current cylhead i have to use the ziptie in stead of the orginal tool on some of the valves because
the treads is stripped in a hole so its impossible to use the orginal tool.
And it does NOT bend the valves atleast it has not bendt any of my valves who was checked with dialgauge for runout / bend  when i rebuildt my engine.
I have done it many times before on other bike too with no problems.
But remeber to be very careful and DO IT ON YOUR OWN RISK!
here is a link to a guy showing how to do it with ziptie   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s52nTRD6ayc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s52nTRD6ayc)
As for the hissing sound it sounds like a lose sparkplug you should do a compression test.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on April 30, 2020, 01:38:28 PM
No, the plugs weren't loose. Guess it is one of the valve seats. Would do a compression test but I don't trust my compression tester after it led me on a wild compression goose chase on an engine that had perfectly fine compression but read as 40psi. As long as it runs I'll leave it till something else breaks. I figured out the ziptie trick and thought I had revolutionized the toolless valve adjustment, but found that many other people figured this out as well. Then one of the valves cut the ziptie in half. Was luckily able to get the pieces out, but decided to stop using the ziptie trick. Ended up just pulling the cams to change the shims. Should I reset them to stock timing or do they work better advanced/retarded? Also, is blue loctite enough to hold the cam sprocket bolts in?

Decided to change the spark plugs because they were out and nasty. The manual recommends the non-resistor type but says the boots are supposed to have 10kohm resistance. I have NGK boots with 5kohm resistance and the resistor type plugs have 5kohm of resistance so I suppose I should use those? They are what is in the bike now. One of the boots is refusing to go back together though, no matter how hard I try to push the wire back in the resistor in the boot just rattles around loose.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: balky1 on April 30, 2020, 03:05:33 PM
Quote from: ajacstern on April 30, 2020, 01:38:28 PM
No, the plugs weren't loose. Guess it is one of the valve seats. Would do a compression test but I don't trust my compression tester after it led me on a wild compression goose chase on an engine that had perfectly fine compression but read as 40psi. As long as it runs I'll leave it till something else breaks. I figured out the ziptie trick and thought I had revolutionized the toolless valve adjustment, but found that many other people figured this out as well. Then one of the valves cut the ziptie in half. Was luckily able to get the pieces out, but decided to stop using the ziptie trick. Ended up just pulling the cams to change the shims. Should I reset them to stock timing or do they work better advanced/retarded? Also, is blue loctite enough to hold the cam sprocket bolts in?

Decided to change the spark plugs because they were out and nasty. The manual recommends the non-resistor type but says the boots are supposed to have 10kohm resistance. I have NGK boots with 5kohm resistance and the resistor type plugs have 5kohm of resistance so I suppose I should use those? They are what is in the bike now. One of the boots is refusing to go back together though, no matter how hard I try to push the wire back in the resistor in the boot just rattles around loose.

That boot smells like a coming problem. I would replace it.
Manual says the plug to use is NGK DP8EA9. I didn't see any one sell them any more, you will be fine with DPR8EA9 (with resistor).
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on May 05, 2020, 08:31:24 PM
Turns out there was a little spring that went flying when I took the spark plug boot off that is supposed to sit between the resistor and the brass screw, whoops. Trying to get the cams timed and no matter how many times I take them off and try I can't seem to get them perfect. Both of the alignment marks always end up a little more inwards - towards each other. Is this how they normally are or should they be in the center? https://photos.app.goo.gl/2coy8yeLiYeZ5PCb9

Cheers.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on May 14, 2020, 10:53:38 AM
I was putting everything back together and found an odd problem. The choke cable is just too short. It looks OEM but when you install it with the knob on it pulls the choke open a little bit. I have tried just placing it in line with the carburetors to see if it was the routing and I've tried pulling it tight to see if it was kinked. I have had cables stretch before but never had them get too short. I am tempted to just shave off the bottom of the choke knob until it fits but I feel like this shouldn't be necessary. Cheers.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: racerrad8 on May 14, 2020, 01:27:43 PM
If the choke enrichment linkage is assembled incorrectly or they are not the correct pieces, the choke can be activated making the cable seem to short.

Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: ajacstern on May 14, 2020, 08:37:15 PM
Is there another way to open the pull side of the choke besides the crimped on end at the bottom? I tried to see if it was mis-set or something but couldn't find a way to get it open without undoing the crimp. It was the right length previously so really odd. Only thing I can think of is I put it in evaporust because it was a little rusty, I wonder if that expanded the housing. It shouldn't as I believe the housing is metal.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on May 15, 2020, 08:15:40 PM
Here's more description of what Randy said.

The tab on the #1 choke plunger is slightly offset from the others.  You might have the wrong tab on that carb.  Look closely, one is different than the others.
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: twangin4u on May 27, 2020, 02:18:00 AM


That boot smells like a coming problem. I would replace it.
Manual says the plug to use is NGK DP8EA9. I didn't see any one sell them any more, you will be fine with DPR8EA9 (with resistor).
[/quote]

Autozone... just got some today
Title: Re: Fuel leak out of carb t-junction
Post by: RPM - Robert on May 27, 2020, 08:42:38 AM
We have the proper stock spark plugs in stock.

Non Resistor NGK (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Head%3ADP8EA9)