Hello All
Attempting to revive a long asleep 1985 FJ1100. Coils appear to be bad as primary side of both check at 13 ohms with my Fluke DMM. If I read my Clymer manual correctly this should be 2.4-3 ohms? Secondaries 27 meg ohms. These are toast, right?
Are replacements available? I don't see them on rpmracingca.com Any other options for this problem?
Thanks in advance...
That's surprising, other than some occasional cracks, the FJ's oem coils have shown to be very durable.
If your testing shows both coils to be bad, I would suspect your test methods.
The probability that both coils went bad at the same time is low.
Others will chime in on your test numbers, I'm away from home now.
Re: Alternate Coils:
Dyna green 3.0 ohm coils are a popular substitute for oem.
You have to buy plug wires and boots separately with the Dyna coils
2 options on the plug wires/boots.
1) buy carbon core suppression wire and use regular non resistor plug boots
2) buy regular steel (copper) core non suppression wire and use NGK resistor plug boots..
https://www.ebay.com/p/Dynatek-DC1-1-Coil-12v-3-0-Ohm-Green/171268638 (https://www.ebay.com/p/Dynatek-DC1-1-Coil-12v-3-0-Ohm-Green/171268638)
Check FleaBay for oem coils, they come with steel core wires and resistor plug boots.
Cheers
Not to sure on which Fluke you have I would say there are 2 reasons maybe your readings are out. 1 The impedance and 2 bad leads..
That is to say you are testing insulation for a higher voltage. A cheap multi meter with out these better testing functions can be better for this type of testing.
Did you remove the spark plug boot to test the secondary?
Randy - RPM
Quote from: AppleJack on August 17, 2019, 12:33:18 PM
Hello All
Attempting to revive a long asleep 1985 FJ1100. Coils appear to be bad as primary side of both check at 13 ohms with my Fluke DMM. If I read my Clymer manual correctly this should be 2.4-3 ohms? Secondaries 27 meg ohms. These are toast, right?
Are replacements available? I don't see them on rpmracingca.com Any other options for this problem?
Thanks in advance...
I would first check ALL connections in the ignition circuits. Corrosion and poor earthing can affect readings.
Quote from: AppleJack on August 17, 2019, 12:33:18 PM
Hello All
Attempting to revive a long asleep 1985 FJ1100. Coils appear to be bad as primary side of both check at 13 ohms with my Fluke DMM......
Going back one step, have you checked for spark and there is none, or have you just dived straight into the coils because it won't start?
If it was ridden to its resting place, the coils will be fine, they don't deteriorate by time.
If there is no spark, follow Krusty's advice first.
For bikes that have sat for a long time, it's nearly always carbies.
Noel
Right, my Fluke 8060A is similar vintage as the bike, if not a couple of years older! I'm troubleshooting no-spark condition - plug laying on to of cylinder head and nothing. Agree more testing called for and will be re-doing ground connections and rechecking all other connections, too.
Had some 1/4 watt, 5% resistors lying around so did some checking:
Five 220 ohm resistors averaged 215.88 - 4.1 ohms and 1.8 % low.
Five 330 ohm average of 322.4 ohms - 7.76 ohms and 2.3% low.
Two 1,000 ohm average of 994.9 - 5.1 ohms and 0.5% low. All resistors within 5% tolerance though.
Duplex receptacle in kitchen measured 117 volts AC.
I conclude from this that, if anything, the 13 ohm reading is a little low? Meaning the primaries are even farther out of spec, right?
Huh - Went out and re-checked coils with my ohmmeter. And this time readings are normal for both primaries and secondaries. Only difference I applied some dielectric grease to all connectors.
Moving on. I have a question about the small springs under the resistor in the spark plug boots. Two are missing - is this critical to the plugs firing? Are they available?
Also, I have a schematic that shows a rev limiter - where is it physically located on the bike? Schematic is for 1100L / LC Mine is a 1100N.
Time for new boots: http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Ignition%3ANGKBoot (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Ignition%3ANGKBoot)
Re: Rev limiter: I don't know what schematic you're looking at. Some FJ models were power limited to 100bhp like FJ's sold in Japan, Switzerland and France and thus had certain limits in the carbs (jetting, boots, airbox) and ignition (timing curve, lower rpm limit)
You should have a USA FJ with no power limits, but there is a high RPM limit (~10k rpm?) programmed into your TCI. IOW there is no separate RPM limiting module, it's part of your TCI.
(TCI = Transistor Controlled Ignition aka your ignition box)
Clear as mud?
Yep, and just glad new boots are still available.
The schematic says it's for a a 1100L / LC and mine is a 1100N. I suppose the N is USA model? At any rate, no separate module near the IC/Ignitor box anyway. I think you're correct that it's internal to the TCI.
Oh, and are the rubber grommets that hold side fairings on available anywhere? Several are MIA.
One other dumb question - use same DOT 3 fluid in clutch, front brake, and rear brake reservoirs?
Thanks...
Jon, you will find a ton of FJ parts at the RPM web site, including the rubber bits for the fairing. Randy is also a Yamaha dealer so not just FJ. And the OEM brake/clutch fluid is DOT3. Some have flushed out to use DOT5 like I did for the clutch. So when the slave leaks, and I don't catch it, the fluid won't hurt the lower fairing anymore than it already is.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 19, 2019, 03:00:29 PM
but there is a high RPM limit (~10k rpm?) programmed into your TCI. IOW there is no separate RPM limiting module, it's part of your TCI.
(TCI = Transistor Controlled Ignition aka your ignition box)
Can anyone elaborate on how that works? I may have accidentally hit that before, and want to know how concerned I should be. Dont ever really want to hit it again... Nothing like thinking you are in second when you are in first...
As Monkey elaborated, the RPM site is your friend.
Here are two examples.
https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A90480-01401 (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A90480-01401)
and
https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A90480-13014 (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A90480-13014)
Joe
All you are the best! Thanks for the heads up on parts.
In making my parts list, I remembered that the mirrors are in really tough shape too. Can just the mirror/glass be pried out and replaced?
Or is there anything that screws directly into the existing mount that will work?
Evil bay has some universal mirrors, but would need to know the thread size before going with something like that I think?
Re: 84/85 handlebar mounted mirrors.
Many aftermarket options available, however, be advised that the right mirror is a reverse thread.
This is something all Yamaha's have in common. This reverse thread prevents overtightening of the mirror stalk on the right side from wind pressure pushing on the forward side of the mirror.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 19, 2019, 09:49:04 PM
Re: 84/85 handlebar mounted mirrors.
Many aftermarket options available, however, be advised that the right mirror is a reverse thread.
This is something all Yamaha's have in common. This reverse thread prevents overtightening of the mirror stalk on the right side from wind pressure pushing on the forward side of the mirror.
The wind would loosen a LH thread on the RHS!
Anyway, the LH thread is so the mirror loosens if you clip something with it instead of whipping the bars around and falling over or breaking the mirror mount which on many bikes also holds the front brake lever. Less important bit still handy, it protects the mirror from breaking if you clip something.
It's a safety thing, you bump it, it swings out of the way.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on August 19, 2019, 10:49:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 19, 2019, 09:49:04 PM
...This reverse thread prevents over tightening of the mirror stalk on the right side from wind pressure pushing on the forward side of the mirror.
The wind would loosen a LH thread on the RHS!
That is correct, the wind pressure loosens the right mirror. (just like it does the left mirror)
That's why I said ^^^ what I said...with the key words being "prevents over tightening"
Good point on the safety issue
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 19, 2019, 09:49:04 PM
Re: 84/85 handlebar mounted mirrors.
.....This reverse thread prevents overtightening of the mirror stalk on the right side from wind pressure pushing on the forward side of the mirror.
Pat, if I was you, I'd blame that one on the meds, there can be no other explanation, unless of course, like me......
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 24, 2019, 11:08:26 AM
Noel.....you don't know what you are talking about....
I think you just got hit by the karma bus Pat. :lol:
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on August 20, 2019, 06:43:45 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 19, 2019, 09:49:04 PM
Re: 84/85 handlebar mounted mirrors.
.....This reverse thread prevents overtightening of the mirror stalk on the right side from wind pressure pushing on the forward side of the mirror.
Pat, if I was you, I'd blame that one on the meds, there can be no other explanation, unless of course, like me......
Noel, I don't understand.... why is my statement wrong? Karma be damned...
Cautiously optimistic here today. Still no spark with plug laying on cylinder head - this is number one cylinder with the good plug boot!
But the ohmmeter check across the pickup coils is way out of spec. I'm showing like 3 or 4 ohms instead of the 110-130 ohms spec. Checking by unplugging the loom from the IC Ignitor box and ohming from orange to black and again from grey to black - both the same at nearly a short.
Let me guess, these are made of unobtanium? What have others done in this instance?
Is 1985 sames as 1984 as far as TCI goes? If so maybe this would work?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Yamaha-FJ1100-Ignition-Pulse-Pickup-Coils-OEM-84-B/282909298436?hash=item41deb54f04:g:Td8AAOSwAfpawldq (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Yamaha-FJ1100-Ignition-Pulse-Pickup-Coils-OEM-84-B/282909298436?hash=item41deb54f04:g:Td8AAOSwAfpawldq)
84 and 85 will be the same except for paint color.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 20, 2019, 11:23:08 AM
Quote from: ribbert on August 20, 2019, 06:43:45 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 19, 2019, 09:49:04 PM
Re: 84/85 handlebar mounted mirrors.
.....This reverse thread prevents overtightening of the mirror stalk on the right side from wind pressure pushing on the forward side of the mirror.
Pat, if I was you, I'd blame that one on the meds, there can be no other explanation, unless of course, like me......
Noel, I don't understand.... why is my statement wrong? Karma be damned...
No, you're right Pat, on reflection it sounds like a perfectly logical explanation. Having just returned from a long sabbatical, I was caught off guard by your shitty remarks the other week and for the first time ever in over 4000 posts, I responded in kind. I am deeply disappointed in myself for not remaining above it. My apologies if I you found my comments in any way offensive.
I will endeavour to do better in the future.
Noel
Phew! Kinda lucked out on the pulse pickup coils. Got a little confused as to the orange and grey leads going to the IC Ignitor - the other day I was actually checking the orange and grey going to the six-gang plug.
I say I got lucky because the pulse coils actually go to the four-gang plug. But re-checking today (after already ordering a different pair from E-Bay) I find the coils are still suspect as they are checking at 165 ohms. Still out of the 110-130 ohms spec! Sheesh, what a Ma-Roon hehe
Big shout-out for the great feedback from the forum. Greatly appreciated.
Along with the new coils I've got new plug boots, round and oval grommets, and a new air filter on the way from rpm.
The ohm values for testing the pick up coils is INCORRECT in the Haynes and Clymer FJ manuals.
Throw those POS in the trash. They just cost you a set of coils you did not need to buy.
Use the ohm values in the Genuine Yamaha Factory Service Manual.
149-182 ohms when the coils are warmed to 68*f
If your coils tested @ 165 ohms you are fine.
Wha!? Oh man, well lesson learned; and only $35!
So I'm still in search of my no-spark culprit. It's not the ignition coils, plug wires, the pulse pick-up coils, and I have two different IC Ignitor boxes I've tried too. Not sure what's going on here. Gonna ohm out spark plugs next?
Anyone know of a good Yamaha shop in Charlotte NC metro area?
Just pulled my Clymer manual and checked again.
The spec you cite is listed for the Digital Control Ignition for the 1989 and newer bikes, while the TCI spec is listed at 108-132 ohms. This is a misprint though huh? They're both the same resistance value?
Just occurred to me that this could be from the side stand, neutral, clutch, or kill switches too. Got some troubleshooting to do.
Lights come on, turn signals work, and engine spins over with the ignition switch on...
Quote from: AppleJack on August 21, 2019, 05:38:03 PM
Just pulled my Clymer manual and checked again.
The spec you cite is listed for the Digital Control Ignition for the 1989 and newer bikes, while the TCI spec is listed at 108-132 ohms. This is a misprint though huh? They're both the same resistance value?
Here's a post from 4 years ago where I went through on my '84 what you just did....(see post #10)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13448.msg135362#msg135362 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13448.msg135362#msg135362)
Quote from: AppleJack on August 21, 2019, 05:57:18 PM
Just occurred to me that this could be from the side stand, neutral, clutch, or kill switches too. Got some troubleshooting to do.
Lights come on, turn signals work, and engine spins over with the ignition switch on...
The starter wont operate if the clutch,side stand switch or kill switch is off.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 21, 2019, 07:53:41 PM
Quote from: AppleJack on August 21, 2019, 05:38:03 PM
Just pulled my Clymer manual and checked again.
The spec you cite is listed for the Digital Control Ignition for the 1989 and newer bikes, while the TCI spec is listed at 108-132 ohms. This is a misprint though huh? They're both the same resistance value?
Here's a post from 4 years ago where I went through on my '84 what you just did....(see post #10)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13448.msg135362#msg135362 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13448.msg135362#msg135362)
That was a really good blow by blow thread Pat. Very useful for someone with ignition problems.
Joe
Great - this is good news as I have new plug boots on the way from rpm. Couple of them missing a small spring ahead of the internal resistor.
And local AutoZone has DPR8EA-9'S in stock per website, shoot they may be 34 years old too This bike ought to run, only showing 7,800 on odometer!
Thanks to all...
So, in my seemingly never-ending search for "the answer" to no-spark condition I found this today.
Battery voltage of 13.1, but voltage at the connector to the ignition coil (R/W lead) measures 11.5V on the 2-3 coil, and 10.3V on the 1-4 coil. Also, if I unplug the 2-3 coil connector the voltage on 1-4 comes up to 11.5?
Is that voltage too low? R/W lead comes from the "starting circuit cut-out relay" Where is said relay on the bike?
This same low voltage goes to the IC Ignitor box via a R/W lead also. Seems too low to me but I'll defer to the experts here on this...
It's not unusual to have low voltage numbers at the coils. My bike had only 9.5v at the coils but was still starting and running ok. I've done the coil relay mod and voltage is much better. The starting circuit relay that you are referring to, is located under the left hand side of the fairing between the headlight and the fuse box.
This relay is also the indicator unit and is also controlled by the safety switch system ; neutral, clutch and side stand cut out switches.
Regards, Pete.
Wracking my brain here trying to figure this out.
Here is what's not causing problem:
Ignition coils primaries and secondaries ohm out correctly and have good dc voltage,
pulse pick-up coils ohm out correctly,
new battery and spark plugs,
kill, side stand, and neutral switches working.
So, I'm wondering if there's a test for the output from the IC Ignitor module?
Engine cranking what should I see at the grey and orange leads connected to the ignition coils?
I have 2 of these modules but they are both 34 years old?
So, went out and tried again and I think I see the transistor control must just switch the ground to the coils as the battery volts already there on the R/W lead.
10.5 volts on R/W lead to TCI - I know it is unrelated but the vacuum diaphragm does hold a vacuum on the suck test
Running out of things to check...
Let's back up....
The bike was running fine when you parked it...correct?
Now after a period of time, the bike does not want to start.
You think it's electrical because you took out the plugs and laid the plugs on the top fins of the head, thumbed the starter and you don't see a spark on the plugs...
You've checked the ignition coils, pick up coils, side stand switch, neutral switch, 12v power to TCI and you have installed new plug caps and battery...still no spark?
Are you sure you have a good ground at the plugs? Try a plug clamp wired to the negative terminal of your battery. Turn off the lights in your garage.
You might have lost a ground to the engine.
Again, other than the battery, it is rare an electrical problem happens when your bike is parked....rats, mice, vermin, yes, that happens but electrical problems out of the blue...not often.
After the battery is refreshed, 99% of the no start problems after parked is carb related.
The most accurate method for determining if there is spark is to have a friend hold the plug while you crank.Another method is to use a timing light.
Quote from: T Legg on August 27, 2019, 05:02:17 PM
The most accurate method for determining if there is spark is to have a friend hold the plug while you crank.Another method is to use a timing light.
Of course it helps if the friend doesn't know what tens of thousand of volts feels like coursing thru their hand/arm/body. :biggrin: I got hit by 60,000 DC one time. Never forget that feeling.
Joe
Just re-read this post from the beginning and you have not mentioned anything about fuel. As Noel stated in an early post, the usual cause of a
non start issue after a period of rest, is fuel related not spark. Have you tried putting a small amount (1/2 teaspoon) of fuel down each spark plug hole, re-fitting
plugs and attempt starting? This will give you a solid starting point for trouble shooting. Be aware of the fire hazard when doing this.
Regards, Pete.
Okay,
I will put a clamp to the plugs and try that, I did worry that the spark plug simply lying on top of the head didn't provide good enough contact.
Carbs are on there way to RPM for refurbish. I tried to do it myself but they are in really tough shape; and so after I broke one choke plunger that was essentially welded in place and boogered up the slot in a pilot jet screw, boxed 'em up and sent them to Cali.
Appreciate the help once again...
Quote from: AppleJack on August 28, 2019, 03:16:09 AM
Carbs are on there way to RPM for refurbish. I tried to do it myself but they are in really tough shape; and so after I broke one choke plunger that was essentially welded in place and boogered up the slot in a pilot jet screw, boxed 'em up and sent them to Cali.
Appreciate the help once again...
Don't worry about your coils, I think you've just self diagnosed your problem. Electrical systems on bikes are usually pretty reliable and just don't stop working if not ridden for a while. I guarantee when you get the carbs back and hit the button it'll fire straight up.
Sending your carbs to Robert may be the smartest motorcycle move you have made. I just sent my second set to him. You will not be disappointed.
Joe
^^^^^^ This. You will be amazed.
rossi
Now I'm disappointed.
When I saw that Rock was the latest poster in this thread I was anticipating poking fun at someone with the name of Lucas giving electrical advice. :-)
Oh well, there's always FB.
Classic David!
Happy Labor Day
Received confirmation Friday carbs are safely in California (JIT for a holiday!)
Looking forward to the return next week and putting some fire in this old FJ!!
Well I'm back after some life interruptions, and have a couple questions - Carb re-install is happily commencing but...
What's supposed to be attached to the nipple on the bottom of the tank?
And, in the group of miscellaneous bits, parts; what are the oval shaped thingies - also two groups of three screws, does anyone recognize them?
TY
Also, can anyone identify the screw with the shoulder on it and where does the metal sleeve belong?
Ok, I'll play...
The oval washers fit in the rubber grommets that hold your tank to the frame.
The (2) 10mm head bolts below fit thru the oval washers.
I am surprised at this question.....have you ever had your tank off?
The bolt with the shoulder and grommet goes to your valve cover.
The 3 JIS screws go to the snorkel on your air box
The 3 10mm head, short bolts attach your battery box.
The steel collar goes thru the grommet (2 grommets total) that attaches your gauge cluster to the fairing.
The collar can also go thru the grommets that attaches your fairing to the frame and the fuse box lid to the side panel and the oil cooler grommets.
The fuel tank nipple goes to a vent tube within your tank that draws off fuel vapors and allows the vapor to be pulled to 2 charcoal canisters as part of the California vapor recovery system.
What do I win? A jelly donut?
That was impressive Pat. You get a gold star.
Joe
Thanks Joe, but....I might be wrong on those air box snorkel JIS screws.....it's been so long since I've had a air box....those threads on the snorkel screws may be a course sheet metal type of thread for biting into plastic, not the fine thread shown in the picture...I can't remember now....I do remember there are 3 of them.
Ha! No jelly for me....
I missed seeing that bolt with the shoulder and grommet is not a 10mm bolt head at all....it's a JIS screw!
Robert gets this one....
Quote from: RPM - Robert on October 02, 2019, 05:12:27 PM
That grommet bolt is for the timing cover in that post.
Thanks Pat,
I should explain, the bike is the proverbial basket case. I came by this as a partially disassembled mess!
These fasteners were laying in the left side cover for the pickup coils and the old tank had been removed and replaced with one that didn't have the inside all gunked up
Couple pics of the previous tank to see why it had to be tossed...
So, can I cap/tape off the nipple on the bottom of the tank?
Quote from: AppleJack on October 02, 2019, 08:26:57 PM
So, can I cap/tape off the nipple on the bottom of the tank?
The vent nipple and vent line should normally be dry, but a splash of fuel could get in the vent inlet, so to be safe I would cap it off. It's a hot location above the engine so get a thick heavy wall cap.
Now, be sure your tank cap can draw air, this is needed as the fuel level in the tank drops.
You can tell when you open the cap...if there is a sucking type of vacuum when you open the cap, that's bad.
You need to vent the tank cap.
Don't think this was California bike. No vent line that I can see. Thanks so much for the heads up on the filler cap though...
So I figured out that most of the fasteners are for the air box, 3 for the end cap and 3 others to attach it to the rear frame.
Also, what do the fasteners for the fairing vents look like? And what is missing below and to the rear of the vent on the fairing?
You have a broken lower tab on your fairing that the air scoop attaches to...you should have 2 tabs, the upper tab is there but the lower tab is not.
There are reusable black plastic rivets that secure the scoop to the fairing.
RPM Robert....do you have a link? I could not find the rivets when I looked on your site.
The JIS fairing screw fits within the small oval recessed collar you show in your photo.
(Shown in the photo to be right on the letter A)
You need this collar to spread the load on the fairing plastic and the JIS screw head needs to be recessed so the black fairing trim piece that hides the screw, fits flush with the surface of the fairing.
Sure, we have used these on a few 1100s
FJ1100 Air Scoop Rivet (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=FJ1100FairingRivet)
So, getting close to trying to fire this long asleep beast I think I see why some of you have ditched the air box in favor of something else.
The rubber tubes are not close to aligning with the carbs, so what do I do? Prybar? I've loosened the carb clamps at the intake a little but still no joy
Top two screws of rear frame section are out and still seems something is preventing air box from going low enough to line up with carb throats...
Look closely on the airbox boots you will see an arrow. Align the arrows so they line up with the dots on the airbox thus, the boots will line up with carbs...
Now, once you get the airbox box in, let's see if you can figure out how to connect the crankcase vent hose to the airbox.....
On second thought....never mind, throw that airbox far far away....
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 08, 2019, 11:53:42 AM
Look closely on the airbox boots you will see an arrow. Align the arrows so they line up with the dots on the airbox thus, the boots will line up with carbs...
I've never seen arrows, but these are the indicators for lining up the boots, they are eccentrically mounted so as you rotate them their position changes.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3791/12901767454_38eaa984a8_c.jpg)
It is a difficult enough job with everything aligned, but if not, near impossible.
Noel
Thanks Noel....I knew someone had that picture, I just could not remember who....
How come I can remember the lyrics from a song in the 60's, but I can't remember why I walked into the kitchen...?
Cheers
To grab another beer, Pat
Just go with the flow.
:smile:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 08, 2019, 10:45:57 PM
....I knew someone had that picture, I just could not remember who....
You could always go out on a limb and put it in the files! :biggrin:
Noel
So, I've found something but don't understand what I've found?
The side stand switch definitely does not work any more, checked it a dozen times with ohmmeter and it is intermittent at best. Checks open circuit unless you hold it part way. What does this mean?
The schematic I have (FJ1100L / FJ1100LC) shows the side stand switch open and the relay normally closed. Is that condition with side stand up or down? Bike running or not?
Would any SPST ice cube relay work as a replacement?
I jumpered the side stand switch wires to the relay and still no spark, so now I suspect the relay
Here's hoping I finally have this figured out. I'd like to keep the safety interlock function but would gladly scrap the whole thing just to get it to run...
When the side stand is down, the cam on the side stand pushes in plunger on the switch and 'opens' the circuit.
When side stand switches fail, they tend to always fail in the open position. (i.e. open all the time)
Therefore, if you want to bypass a faulty side stand switch, you want to 'close' this circuit.
Follow the switch wires up to the side where there is a plug. The male prongs on the plug on the engine side of the plug (not the female on switch side) can be easily jumped with 2 small spade connectors connected with a short piece of wire.
Do not cut the plug, just jump it to close the circuit.
This is easily reversible if/when you get a new side stand switch.
Hope this helps.
Yes, that's exactly what I did, but still no spark
Now i suspect the relay, any suggestions as to a suitable replacement for this relay? TY
Before you get to the relay there are 2 other circuits you need to isolate
1) the neutral circuit
2) the clutch safety circuit.
Only when all 3 safety circuits (sidestand, clutch and neutral) are taken out of the equation do you think of the problem with the relay.
Can you still get a oem relay?
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1985/fj1100n/electrical-1 (https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1985/fj1100n/electrical-1)
The bike will not crank at all if one of the three safety loops is not functioning properly. Since the bike is cranking and not getting spark, I am going to go out on a limb and say your problem is not the sidestand switch.
Understood on the side stand. I will get to it later after I get it running. For now it's jumpered @ the connector.
The neutral light comes on with the key & rear wheel spins freely, and no spark whether or not clutch lever pulled in? I'm thinking 4U8-01 relay??
Or does this (no spark) occur because of the other relay up under the front of the fairing? What does if do exactly?
Quote from: AppleJack on October 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Or does this (no spark) occur because of the other relay up under the front of the fairing? What does if do exactly?
Has it got a "coil relay mod"?
Maybe that's not working and why you don't have spark or the supply to it has a blown fuse or not connected at all!
Just a thought
Does not have the mod, but does show 10.3 and 11.5 volts on R/W wires to the coils - battery is 13.1 volts with Fluke DMM
Jon, the safety switches interrupt your starter motor, so if your starter motor spins and the engine turns over, but you have no spark, the problem is not the safety switches.
Thanks again to all who have hung in there with me on this!
Today, I decided to go back to the basics - A wise man mentioned to me the other day that in order to have spark, you start troubleshooting at the generator
And it looks like there's a problem but wanted your feedback to see if I'm on the right track -
Ohmmeter checks per the service manual across the six diodes don't look good to me: I've got A,B, and C as the solder connections; D the large red wire, and E the screw on the brushes holder - Brushes look new btw, plenty of length
From E (the screw to the brushes holder) to B, C, D check open both polarities
A-B 400 ohms one way, and 440 with meter leads reversed
A-C 440 ohms and 430 ohms
A-D open both ways
Stator coil spec is 0.2 ohms and mine checks 0.32 ohms - 60% discrepancy
Or is there a better check of the output of the generator?
You don't even need the alternator at all for the bike to run, as long as the battery is fully charged it will run for some time.
No spark is not this.
Wha?! Do you agree that this alternator is bad though? All is does is charge battery then?
So it's not:
Alternator
Pickup Coils
Ignition Coils
Kill, Neutral, or Sidestand switches
Spark Plugs/Wires
2 TCI boxes
All Fuses
New Battery
I'm running out of things to check here - somebody please throw me a bone
I don't know that I have seen a "bad" alternator on the FJ, overcharging problems yes but a complete failure, not that I have seen. I am sure there have been a few but so far and few in between I would say yours is likely fine.
Alternator can't check this with out bike running:
Does it charge at the proper voltages? Yes, it's good.
No, it's bad.
Does it overcharge? Yes, regulator is bad.
No, it's good.
Do you have the coils grounded to the frame? All grounds clean and not covered in paint, rust, or corrosion. You are missing something somewhere but I really do not know what.
Quote from: AppleJack on October 23, 2019, 01:40:23 PM
So it's not:
Alternator
Pickup Coils
Ignition Coils
Kill, Neutral, or Sidestand switches
Spark Plugs/Wires
2 TCI boxes
All Fuses
New Battery
I'm running out of things to check here - somebody please throw me a bone
Ignition switch? Are you sure your wiring harness is properly powering the above components?
Is the rotor and ignition pick up coils set properly...?
So many possibilities....I agree with Robert, you can start and run your FJ engine without alternator output or even the alternator for that matter.
Drag racers do it all the time. It's called a total loss electrical system.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on October 23, 2019, 01:01:27 PM
You don't even need the alternator at all for the bike to run, as long as the battery is fully charged it will run for some time.
If by chance, you want to know what "some time" means, I can tell you precisely how far the FJ can travel in the day (headlight fused pulled) at 75mph, from a fully charged battery to engine shut off...(86 miles)
....and, as a bonus.....
I can also tell you precisely where, on Interstate 80 between Rawlins and Rock Springs, Wyoming in the middle of BFE, the point when cell phone coverage ends.
Quote from: T Legg on August 27, 2019, 05:02:17 PM
The most accurate method for determining if there is spark is to have a friend hold the plug while you crank.Another method is to use a timing light.
Seeing all else have failed have you tried "the timing light" instead of just looking for a spark!
Also you can mark off the mirrors as being at fault :biggrin:
The most difficult thing to figure out how to fix is something that isn't broken.
Ha - Funny story Pat
And some more good ideas, I'll do some more troubleshooting this weekend TY
BTW, the mirrors ARE junk but not 12V!
Did the problem get resolved?
I am having the same problem, checked everything out but no spark. Two ignition boxes, checked all swithches, wires and resistsnce of pick up and ign coils.
Getting desparate.
Hi Randy, FYI here is the minimum wiring needed to run the FJ engine. (You can delete the vacuum advance and gear selector gauge)
This came courtesy of Randy at RPM. This is how he wires his race cars (Legends and Thunder Roadsters)
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16277.0;attach=7560;image)
For test purposes why don't you put together a temporary harness to check things out?
Got mine up and running. The timing light verified i had spark, from there it was straightforward.
Thx
Quote from: T Legg on October 24, 2019, 12:32:48 AM
The most difficult thing to figure out how to fix is something that isn't broken.
.
Glad you got it running.