I came across this beauty coming into work this morning.
http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/646_18_07_19_10_37_01.jpeg (http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/646_18_07_19_10_37_01.jpeg)
Great picture. Is that at the Waterloo Airport?
Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on July 18, 2019, 12:16:45 PM
Great picture. Is that at the Waterloo Airport?
Dave
KMCW is Mason City, Iowa
Interesting trivia. The B29 project was actually more expensive than the Manhattan project. Beautiful plane!
They should hire Pat to polish the skin. :biggrin:
I watched a video of Doc taking off. It might have been the first flight or maybe not but there were a lot of people attending. It's awesome to see those behemoths take to the sky.
For those interested, I found the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_AZeMRqCfg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_AZeMRqCfg)
There are a couple people in the video that make it extra special. You have to watch to understand.
Here is another one. Awesome seeing a formation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUdqT8AxY0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUdqT8AxY0)
Joe
Saw Doc and Fifi at the Reading airshow last year, along with Aliminum Overcast. Have to pony up someday soon to take a ride. Amazing machines.
Nice plane but not so nice thinking about this planes was used to drop nuclear bombs over Hiroshima and nagasaki and killed over 140 000 inocent pepole
Quote from: Old Rider on July 20, 2019, 11:16:24 AM
Nice plane but not so nice thinking about this planes was used to drop nuclear bombs over Hiroshima and nagasaki and killed over 140 000 inocent pepole
We, as a country that was attacked by Japan, were tasked to end/win the war by any means possible.
As cruel as that sounds, that is the meaning of war.
Quote from: Old Rider on July 20, 2019, 11:16:24 AMNice plane but not so nice thinking about this planes was used to drop nuclear bombs over Hiroshima and nagasaki and killed over 140 000 inocent pepole
Old rider,
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. How many innocent Chinese people were killed by Japanese soldiers, before that? There is a
lot more to the story.
.
Think how many American and Japanese lives were saved by not having to invade main land Japan. Certainly more than killed by the atomic bombs.
Dave
If this is closer to home, you can also catch a ride on this Avro Lancaster MkX (https://www.warplane.com/aircraft/collection/details.aspx?aircraftId=4) the only one left this side of the pond. The Canadain Warplane Heritage Museum (https://www.warplane.com/aircraft/flights/buy.aspx) has several vintage aircraft you can buy flights on. Hopefully I'll eventually go for something cheaper though, unless the lottery comes in.
Now for a little diversion ..
Quote from: TexasDave on July 20, 2019, 02:43:45 PM
Think how many American and Japanese lives were saved by not having to invade main land Japan. Certainly more than killed by the atomic bombs.
Dave
To put things into perspective, this has been the mantra for +70yrs yet has been contested by historians and researchers several times over.
Russia had already swept through Manchuria and were ready to invade northern Japan by late August 1945. Since Truman already dropped both of them, Stalin blinked and went home. The decision to drop the bomb was based on politics, and had little to do with any military considerations. It was a signal to the Russians to back off. Yes the US would probably have incurred horrendous losses if they invaded, but there was never a need to.
The continued incendiary bombing of Japanese cities would have had the same result. As cold as it sounds, thousands more civilians would have died, but with nil US/Allied losses. No physical invasion would have been needed, though plans were prepped for it. With Russia entering the picture, that changed the timeline for surrender. The decision to drop it will be disputed for a while yet, until history is once again rewritten by future victors.
Here's the smell of the blood still. All the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand...
Lady MacBethNow back to the thread....
I currently work in the building where Doc and Fifi were built.
Photos are of the
B-29 assembly line
737 body integration
787 forward section
Sikorsky CH-53K
Bell V280 tilt rotor
FJ1200 with 737 fuselages
All are built here in Wichita. The first 2 photos are in the same building roughly 70 years apart.
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on July 21, 2019, 04:53:45 AM
I currently work in the building where Doc and Fifi were built.
Photos are of the
B-29 assembly line
737 body integration
787 forward section
Sikorsky CH-53K
Bell V280 tilt rotor
FJ1200 with 737 fuselages
All are built here in Wichita. The first 2 photos are in the same building roughly 70 years apart.
Fred
Hey Fred, you're not trying that old trick of taking a piece home in the panniers every night and eventually building a 737 bit by bit in your backyard are you?
Noel
Quote from: PaulG on July 21, 2019, 02:15:55 AM
Now for a little diversion ..
Quote
Thanks Paul, that's very interesting. I enjoy history and certainly WW2 was one of the biggest, complex and drawn out events of the last century (or maybe it was the flag on the moon fluttering in nil wind or JC appearing on a piece of toast or....
It is interesting that an event such as that with so many living participants is still subject to so much conjecture.
Noel
That's awesome Fred, to work in a building with so much aviation history.
Joe
Quote from: FJ Flyer on July 20, 2019, 10:47:54 AM
Saw Doc and Fifi at the Reading airshow last year, along with Aliminum Overcast. Have to pony up someday soon to take a ride...
Highly recommended. Due to good fortune, over the years I have been able to take 3 rides in Aluminum Overcast. One of those rides was over an hour as the plane was being relocated from Lancaster to San Diego. The noise is incredible, even with earplugs. As we cruised along at 10,000 feet, I stood at the waist gunner's position and imagined what it must have been like to have German fighters boring straight at me, guns blazing. And all they had for "protection" was a thin sheet of aluminum. There was nowhere to run, no place to hide. All they could do was grit their teeth and shoot back, and hope their aim was better than the German pilot's. It must have been terrifying.
The view from the bombardier's position is truly a magic carpet ride. Be sure to bring a camera...
Bill
I wondered what the background to your username was Fred. Thought maybe you were a pilot. Presumably the current 737 issues have just allowed Boeing to catch up on production for existing 737 orders already on the books - and not impacted the future for Boeing workers.
As a private pilot (rotary) and aircraft owner (Schweitzer S300 CBi) I always had a fascination with aircraft, all of my life - especially since being refused entry to the RAF as a fast jet trainee pilot officer after university, due to a medical issue from a childhood disease and subsequent gammy hip.
I love older piston powered aircraft and their whole sound and feel and am eternally jealous of anyone who has flown in a Spitfire, a Mosquito (my ultimate piston aircraft), a P 51 Mustang, a Wellington, a Lancaster, a B17, a B29, or even a Liberator or Dakota !!! truly the golden era of aircraft.
Right now, a F15 and F16 are the two icons that I would give a limb to fly in. I also always wanted to fly a Bell Jet Ranger, but having done so as PIC, I wasn't as overwhelmed by it as I thought I would be. I bet it would be different in a F16, just as a passenger !!
Mind you, a F22 is now on my dream list for a ride, as it's really become a "classic" :good2:
Giving my nephew his first flying lesson :biggrin:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/dzticz.jpg)
Quote from: Millietant on July 21, 2019, 02:31:13 PM
I love older piston powered aircraft and their whole sound and feel and am eternally jealous of anyone who has flown in a Spitfire, a Mosquito (my ultimate piston aircraft), a P 51 Mustang, a Wellington, a Lancaster, a B17, a B29, or even a Liberator or Dakota !!! truly the golden era of aircraft.
That's a great shot Quentin, start 'em young. Get them interested in aircraft they'll never be able to afford drugs. They say the two best days of aircraft ownership are the day you buy it and the day you sell it. A saying mostly quoted by owners who have no intention of selling but like to whinge or let you know they can afford an expensive hobby.
That is a great wish list you have with many iconic aircraft on it. What fun ticking them off the bucket list.
Dean, my young bloke on his first trip through Europe recently was told by brother he would be most welcome to stay with his friend in Germany. My son is a pilot and knew that my brother's friend flew "something" recreationally, and not much else.
He arranged the visit and discovered this blokes toy box included an airworthy P51, Bell 47, just back in the air after full resto, Pitts, Boeing Stearman, Bell JetRanger, Cirrus Jet, first Cessna model and some I may have forgotten. The Mustang had the engine out but they went flying in most of the others. Being both young and a young pilot, the Pitts was his favourite, an aircraft without limits. Needless to say, the garage wasn't too shabby either.
Aaaaaargh, why didn't
my uncle have friends like that when I was growing up?? Why don't I have friends like that now waaaaahh : :cray:
I also have some volumes of Spitfire Merlin workshop manuals that were acquired for, and of no use after a court case about 15 years ago. The aircraft owner had an original, still crated correct Spitfire Merlin he had bought years earlier. The engineers doing the plane restoration asked if they could install this new engine for the purpose of doing all the "plumbing" and electrical while the planes original engine was away being reconditioned, to save time. The owner gave his approval on the strict understanding that it not be started.
As you may have already guessed, they started it. They obviously checked the oil level before doing so but were unaware that it was not oil, it was inhibitor. It ruined the engine. Brand new still crated Spitfire engines are a bit rare, the owner sued successfully for $1,000,000. My brother was representing the owner (which is how I got the manuals) they make great reading.
If you like exotic piston engines, there are some wonderful examples of pre war aircraft engined cars around, most of them I would think were in the UK, Hispano Suiza, Delage, Rolls Royce, Sunbeam, Mercedes....... I love old piston engines, getting to rebuild one would be the holy grail for me. Then there's the multi row, spiral radials......
Noel
My efforts at keeping our local P-51 polished has its rewards.
You lucky devil! More pics, more pics!
Back in the mid 70's we had a middle aged fellow show up at the drop zone wanting to learn how to jump out of airplanes. This was a bit unusual because of his age and he had already bought his parachute gear. We didn't find out how unusual he was until we were skydiving with him for a while. During WWII he was a factory P 51 test pilot testing the new planes right off the line before they were turned over to the military. He had flown literally hundreds without a major mishap. Fast forward to early 70"s when an acquaintance asked him to test his newly rebuilt P51. During this test flight the tail came off and the million dollar(at that time) was lost. That was his first parachute jump but not his last.
Larry Quist was his name and he owned a car dealership in Janesville, Ia but he had also owned a B 26 since WWII. He flew that quite frequently until some medical issues and the FAA pulled his license. After that he would fly it once a year because the sheriffs department would be waiting for him to land and the FAA would fine him ten thousand dollars. He said that's all he could afford once a year. He finally got around this by getting his wife a multi engine rating and certified to fly a B 26. After that when he was up know one could tell who was PIC. I'm sure he has passed by now but he was a heck of a guy.
Dave
Quote from: 1tinindian on July 22, 2019, 09:17:56 AM
My efforts at keeping our local P-51 polished has its rewards.
You are indeed a lucky man Leon - who seems to have made his own luck !!
Helping others certainly has its rewards :good2: :good2:
Wow Noel, that's a great family tale......and I definitely wish I had friends like that too. I have a few good "aviation" friends, but none have exotic or desirable aircraft like your brothers friend.
Most of my earliest childhood memories centre on making Airfix model aircraft from the Second World War- and finding out everything about them that I possibly could. That fired my lifelong love of aircraft and my childhood desire to become a pilot. A dodgy hip meant that I could never be trusted to be PIC of a fighter aircraft (G-suit pressures on my hip joints could result in instantaneous lower limb paralysis) and I stupidly didn't follow up the RAF offer of a role training to be a transport/support/rotary pilot.
Without the RAF, my family (nor myself) could never finance me getting my pilots licence in my younger years, so I gave up on thoughts of ever flying for 35 years. Mind you, once I got my focus on motorcycles, I didn't feel bad about not being a pilot as my career. :good2:
.
Yeah, I like historical aircraft, too. Got a ride once in a B-25, the "Pacific Princess." Amazing machine! Wonderful sound! I was amazed at the number of old veterans who came out into their yards to hear us, see us, and cheer us on, as we flew low over town. Google can find pix of that plane for you.
The USAF would not let me fly, due to eyeglasses, and I was not happy about that call, for years. One day I woke up to the fact that I had literally been willing to kill to fly, and I have thanked them for their decision ever since. Anyway, I much prefer to do my own flying, on my own terms. Been flying Hang Gliders for the last forty-some years, with more hours airborne than many private pilots (not counting airline or military pilots). I fly the Rockies. This is one of my fine flyin' machines: same wingspread and wing area as a Cessna, 20 mph cruise, VNE somewhere north of 75 mph. Same glide ratio as the hawks and eagles. If they can climb without flapping, then I can too, in the same air. It is old, in HG terms (1978) ; I plan to restore it, in the future.
.
(https://user.xmission.com/~red/history/fledge2.jpg)
.
:yes:
.
Quote from: red on July 22, 2019, 07:06:30 PM
.....It is old, in HG terms (1978) ; I plan to restore it, in the future.
(https://user.xmission.com/~red/history/fledge2.jpg)
Red, I'm really surprised you are allowed to fly that. It would be illegal to fly one that vintage here. While thousands did in the day, later designs were so improved the early ones were deemed unsafe to fly and banned by the authorities.
Noel
Quote from: 1tinindian on July 22, 2019, 09:17:56 AM
My efforts at keeping our local P-51 polished has its rewards.
Wow Leon, that must have been fantastic. It also sort of explains your bike.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on July 23, 2019, 09:36:11 AM
Quote from: red on July 22, 2019, 07:06:30 PM.....It is old, in HG terms (1978) ; I plan to restore it, in the future.
https://user.xmission.com/~red/history/fledge2.jpg (https://user.xmission.com/~red/history/fledge2.jpg)
Red, I'm really surprised you are allowed to fly that. It would be illegal to fly one that vintage here. While thousands did in the day, later designs were so improved the early ones were deemed unsafe to fly and banned by the authorities.
Noel
Noel,
USA, Land of the Free! HG clubs have no legal voice here. FAA FAR103 governs. Those bogus "authorities" were (are) just intimidated by the spin capabilities of the Manta Fledgling-IIB. We always said, the HG pilot's skill level comes up to the Fledgling; the Fledgling's handling does not come down to the pilot's level of skill. When the USA HGMA tried to break one, it lifted the front axle of the test truck (a stake-bed Ford farm truck) one meter into the air at Vne instead. I flew the Fledglings for 2~3 decades, and the design is fine. HGMA Certification is on file, on line. I would caution any newbies that an unlicensed European copy can be had, which is
not certified. I fly newer gliders now, certainly, but I do miss the power steering. Like the B-29 and other warbirds, old does not mean bad, and restoration is possible.
:yes:
Wow, more av nerds are into FJs than I thought.
Here's a pic of the last flightworthy FW190
Is it in Australia?
Joe
Quote from: Troyskie on July 24, 2019, 03:24:21 AM
Wow, more av nerds are into FJs than I thought.
Here's a pic of the last flightworthy FW190
That may be the "latest" flying FW190, but there are a handful flying in the world.
Quote from: Troyskie on July 24, 2019, 03:24:21 AMWow, more av nerds are into FJs than I thought.
Av Nerds,
I know I have posted about this place before, but it may be worth a repeat. The Hill AFB AeroSpace Museum is a great place to see most of the planes ever flown by the USAF, and even some Russian examples. The history traces from a Wright Flier to the SR-71. I believe that this museum is second only to the Wright-Patterson AFB air museum, for military aircraft. Hill AFB is in northern Utah, about one hour north on I-15, from the junction of I-15 and I-80 (SLC, UT.) Exit 338 on I-15 (watch the Mile Markers) will put you there.
For some reason, the current HAFB museum webpage is now kinda lame, just a shadow of its' former self. The Wayback Machine found a good archive, though. Click on EXHIBITS, pick an era, and see pix & histories of most of the planes in the museum.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160624033323/http://www.hill.af.mil/library/museum/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20160624033323/http://www.hill.af.mil/library/museum/)
In the 360view tab below, click on any small image to see it larger. On the larger image, click-drag with the mouse to rotate the view left, right, up, & down.
https://tinyurl.com/museumHAFB (https://tinyurl.com/museumHAFB)
Here below is the link for a .PDF map of the HAFB museum layout. Planes on gray backgrounds are outdoors. Planes on white backgrounds are indoors. Download and Zoom In:
https://www.aerospaceutah.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-Museum-Map-Download-COLOR.pdf (https://www.aerospaceutah.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-Museum-Map-Download-COLOR.pdf)
:yes:
.
bucket list.
Joe
My hope is that the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Reading, PA gets their P-61 Black Widow flying and some day take a ride in the back seat. My Dad was a radio (radar) operator in the Pacific in the 421st Night Fighter Squadron.
Quote from: red on July 24, 2019, 03:16:01 PM
Quote from: Troyskie on July 24, 2019, 03:24:21 AMWow, more av nerds are into FJs than I thought.
Av Nerds,
I know I have posted about this place before, but it may be worth a repeat. The Hill AFB AeroSpace Museum is a great place to see most of the planes ever flown by the USAF, and even some Russian examples. The history traces from a Wright Flier to the SR-71. I believe that this museum is second only to the Wright-Patterson AFB air museum, for military aircraft. Hill AFB is in northern Utah, about one hour north on I-15, from the junction of I-15 and I-80 (SLC, UT.) Exit 338 on I-15 (watch the Mile Markers) will put you there.
For some reason, the current HAFB museum webpage is now kinda lame, just a shadow of its' former self. The Wayback Machine found a good archive, though. Click on EXHIBITS, pick an era, and see pix & histories of most of the planes in the museum.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160624033323/http://www.hill.af.mil/library/museum/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20160624033323/http://www.hill.af.mil/library/museum/)
In the 360view tab below, click on any small image to see it larger. On the larger image, click-drag with the mouse to rotate the view left, right, up, & down.
https://tinyurl.com/museumHAFB (https://tinyurl.com/museumHAFB)
Here below is the link for a .PDF map of the HAFB museum layout. Planes on gray backgrounds are outdoors. Planes on white backgrounds are indoors. Download and Zoom In:
https://www.aerospaceutah.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-Museum-Map-Download-COLOR.pdf (https://www.aerospaceutah.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-Museum-Map-Download-COLOR.pdf)
:yes:
.
Thanks mate. It made me check the facts instead of repeating what I was told. This one is about 90% new parts. There is a mob in Germany making them to order. I think there might be as many as 7 flying examples, so this is one of 7 (not 7 of Nine trekkies :sarcastic:).
Joe, yep, this one is in Australia. From what I've been told they are great fun to fly but really twitchy to land. There is quite a bit of 'toe out' on the main gear, so ground loop is the main worry. They will take landing in unimproved fields but at millions of dollars each I don't imagine many would be game enough to try a rough field landing unless necessary.