I'm so confused by this subject.
I found a nice 1997 YZF600R complete front end. The question is, will this fit the frame head tube on an 87 FJ1200 frame? It has the right, late Yamaha swept 3 spoke design and is 17x3.5. The rear is 17x5.0 and looks great too but would probably only carry a 170/60-17 and looks to have a 25mm axle so swingarm modification and tensioner bit swap would be necessary too.
Just wondering if anyone has gone this route with the front end or rear wheel setup?
I think the rear GSXR would still be best but this stuff is all available now.
TIA for thoughts.
***EDIT***
Just found the 97 YZF600R rear wheel model PDF. Guess it doesn't have a 25mm axle. Can get the entire rear setup from this bike too. 170/60-17 would be better than the 16 inch options I guess.
Have you reviewed this site?
http://www.fjmods.co.uk/ (http://www.fjmods.co.uk/)
Jon Cain was the pioneer of the YZF600 front end swap as well as the YZF600 rear wheel swap
Here's the info. on the 600 rear rim conversion. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1567.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1567.0)
We do have some folks who are using the YZF600 front ends, perhaps they will chime in...
I had one of Jon's YZF600 rear rims on my '84 (many years ago) and I can say that it was light years better the the pig heavy FJ oem back tire and rim.
The 170/60-17 is an absolutely wonderful tire for our FJ's.
Cheers
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 26, 2019, 01:57:31 AM
Have you reviewed this site?
http://www.fjmods.co.uk/ (http://www.fjmods.co.uk/)
Jon Cain was the pioneer of the YZF600 front end swap as well as the YZF600 rear wheel swap
Here's the info. on the 600 rear rim conversion. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1567.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1567.0)
We do have some folks who are using the YZF600 front ends, perhaps they will chime in...
I had one of Jon's YZF600 rear rims on my '84 (many years ago) and I can say that it was light years better the the pig heavy FJ oem back tire and rim.
The 170/60-17 is an absolutely wonderful tire for our FJ's.
Cheers
Pat,
Thanks for the links. I did find the rear wheel swap but the FJ mods site from the UK is one I missed so I'll be studying that. Anyone who has done the full front end swap and has some insight, I'm the sponge
I did this front end swap to my '85. You need to use the YZF fender and the '85 lock set sticks up about an inch above the hole in the YZF top triple. Also the FJ handle bars do not match up perfectly to the top triple. I made it work though.
Quote from: Motofun on June 26, 2019, 08:32:30 AM
I did this front end swap to my '85. You need to use the YZF fender and the '85 lock set sticks up about an inch above the hole in the YZF top triple. Also the FJ handle bars do not match up perfectly to the top triple. I made it work though.
Sadly any information / documentation has been lost to bad links on http://www.fjmods.co.uk (http://www.fjmods.co.uk) for the YZF600R front end swap. Nor can I find anything in our modification, Files or in the first 10 pages of the FJ Projects Write-ups. Rear wheels yes.
The Questions then are;
Is the 85-11 front end substantially different from the 87-12?
Can the YZF tubes just slide into the FJ triple clamps, or do you have to replace the triples as well?
Did you use the YZF brake master cyl for the blue dots?
Would using the YZF handlebars make it any easier or just complicate things more?
Does the speedometer drive / cable need any attention / parts form the YZF?
I'm sure more will come.
OK, not sure I can answer all your questions, my bike started out as an FJ1100 with 16" front wheel. I replaced the kit and kaboodle with a YZF 600 front end (97 if I remember). 17" wheel, forks and triple clamps. I reused the '85 lock set/key and handle bars. I have FJR master cylinders and levers for both clutch and brake along with blue spots. It went together straight forward with the biggest issue being just how the handle bars mounted to the triples.
Quote from: Motofun on June 26, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
OK, not sure I can answer all your questions, my bike started out as an FJ1100 with 16" front wheel. I replaced the kit and kaboodle with a YZF 600 front end (97 if I remember).........
Close as you get to answering the questions. Thank you.
It sounds like you're not going back any time soon.
I will get the front end and maybe the rear wheel too and look to a winter project. I may sell the rear kit as I am still on the fence over a 5.0 vs. 5.5 rear wheel width. Either way the tire selection and unsprung weight should be much better.
Hang tight Bud..
Paging a Mr. Jon Cain to the white courtesy phone please.
Ok, I just heard back from Jon Cain (I messaged him on FB) He said that he is going to find his notes and he will post here in a couple of days...so stay tuned.
I am also going to replicate his info. over in the Suspension Files so we will have his info in the future.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 28, 2019, 12:42:53 AM
Ok, I just heard back from Jon Cain (I messaged him on FB) He said that he is going to find his notes and he will post here in a couple of days...so stay tuned.
I am also going to replicate his info. over in the Suspension Files so we will have his info in the future.
Found this from Jon when I did mine back on 2005. Linkie no workie but the rest is good info.
John,
Yes, I do share all that info. I'd much rather have folks get the details right, then make this wheel swap some sort of hush hush deal.
8mm (.315 in.) from the thickness of the left side axle spacer (the fat one).
8mm from the axle bore area on the swing arm side of the caliper mount.
This mount rests at about a 45 deg. angle when installed so take a good look before you start cutting.
3mm (.118 in.) from the face of the sprocket mount surface of the cush hub. You will need to heat the crap out of the hub to remove the studs. You will also need to double jam nut the studs to get them out. Use a propane torch and get it very hot. Oh yea, did I tell you to get it hot. Use red locktite when you run the studs back in.
The clevis on the swing arm end of the FJ brake torque link needs to be offset 8mm. I cut the clevis from the tube right at the weld. Then I grind the open end of the tube square, then weld a 3/16 plate back in place of the clevis, then I reweld the clevis back onto the link with the 8mm offset. This link has a few photos that may help you.
http://www.btinternet.com/~fj1200mods/Project_FJ/YZFRear.htm (http://www.btinternet.com/~fj1200mods/Project_FJ/YZFRear.htm)
Ride Well,
Jon
Thanks John, the info on the YZF600 rear rim is in good shape, it's the info on the YZF600 front end swap we need.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 28, 2019, 10:03:55 AM
Thanks John, the info on the YZF600 rear rim is in good shape, it's the info on the YZF600 front end swap we need.
:Facepalm:
So I made the deal to get the entire front end and everything between the swing arms with rear M/C as well from the 97 YZF600R Thundercat. I'll be gathering other parts like fork bushings, seals, gold valves and springs in preperation for a winter project.
The 17 inch front tire size is not even a question but the rear of the YZF was a 160/70-17. I'm wondering if it's wise to squish a 170 or larger width tire on the 5.0 rear rim.
I'm sure it will work but the 160 may prove to have better handling.
Any insight here will save a couple hundred on the swap.
Slso insight on a DOT 5 fluid swap for blue dots, clutch
I've got the 600 rear wheel and am perfectly happy running a 160 tire om it.
Quote from: Bud Wilkinson on July 17, 2019, 02:33:46 PM
I'm wondering if it's wise to squish a 170 or larger width tire on the 5.0 rear rim.
Many FJ owners use a 170 on their YZF600 rear wheel mod. A 170/60/17 tire will not be pinched on A 5" wheel.
A couple owners have even gone up to a 180 and have not had any complaints.
Fred
Bud,
I'm one of those mentioned by Fred Greenlee that has and is currently running a 180 mm rear tire on a YZF600R 17"X5" wheel. I initially installed a 170 mm tire when I first put on the 17" wheel, but wore out both tires in the middle of the Central FJ rally last year. The shop in Harrison AR didn't have any 170 tires in stock so a 180 went on. I can't find any fault in grip at high lean angles or sport touring speeds. Tip in is slightly heavier with the 180 but I don't find it at all objectionable. Chain clearance is no problem either.
Joe
Quote from: aviationfred on July 17, 2019, 06:18:57 PM
A couple owners have even gone up to a 180 and have not had any complaints.
Fred
I would think it was more than a couple Fred.
The FJ IMO is too heavy and too powerful for bicycle tyres. A fact born out by some of the major manufacturers not even making skinny tyres (160/170) of suitable ratings for these bikes (GT/ HWM.....)
I consider two things, modern tyre fitment charts that show bikes running FJ size rims these days only make half the power and weigh significantly less, and, a 260kg bike making 125hp needs decent size tyres. As my tyre man once said when I asked his opinion on a 110 on the front, "why would you want to put a skinny thing like that on a bike like this?????"
Like engine oil, there is not right or wrong but my personal preference is for a tyre size I feel is in keeping with the power and weight of the bike.
I have had about 20 consecutive 180 tyres on my bike and other than when it gets raised here, I wouldn't even contemplate going smaller (and they get used)
Anyway, it doesn't matter what tyre size you choose, as long as you're happy with your choice having considered the pros and cons and taken everyone's opinions on board. It is highly unlikely you will ever outride whatever size you fit
Not many here have bikes sitting side by side in the garage, both with 180's, one on a 5" and one on a 6". I sometimes stare at them and wonder if anyone could really tell the difference looking at them, even side by side!
As I said, it doesn't matter what size you run but I tire (pun intended) of people talking about "pinched" fit, sluggish tip in and so on, it ain't so and in many cases, the opinions are not first hand.
Some years back I dialled in the sweet spot for tip in with dog bone length and fork height, as I have said many times over the years, I can steer my bike with my eyes.
Zip tie pool noodles to it, whatever, just get out and ride it.
Yaaaaay, fatties of the world unite!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/305/19778884743_1344b3283a_c.jpg)
Noel
Sounds like 160 to 180 at the 17 x 5 wheel tire choice will be just fine. I'll cross that bridge when I get there. There's much to do between now and then. The best info I get in research indicates a 17/42 with the 17 rear will be very close to the stock 17/41 with 16 rear wheel for final drive ratio too.
Maybe I'll do a new conversion guide piece on my take of this modification.
I'm also running the Thundercat rear wheel Bud, with a 170/60 x17 Bridgestone BT 023 and absolutely love it - but I might try a 180 next time just for the hell of it.
With the rear wheel conversion, some here may say I did a bodge with mine, but rather than machine off material from the sprocket carrier face, I just reversed my new FJ sprocket, so that the shoulder faces the inside of the wheel. That re-aligned the chain run enough so that it sits within my measuring ability of the original position and made the whole conversion thing so much easier.
I also don't know why, but my rear brake torque arm fit perfectly onto the calliper bracket, without any force or machining/fabrication whatsoever and there's no noticeable binding or friction from the brake when I spin the back wheel with everything in place, or when riding - no hot disc after a ride and fuel consumption still over 50 mpg (UK gallons).
A very simple, easy and satisfactory wheel swap/conversion.
Just the tire selection of the 17 inch wheel package will help a lot. I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Maybe I'll do a new modification write up for this front and rear wheel / suspension package.
Quote from: ribbert on July 18, 2019, 08:51:11 AM
Quote from: aviationfred on July 17, 2019, 06:18:57 PM
A couple owners have even gone up to a 180 and have not had any complaints.
Fred
I would think it was more than a couple Fred.
The FJ IMO is too heavy and too powerful for bicycle tyres. A fact born out by some of the major manufacturers not even making skinny tyres (160/170) of suitable ratings for these bikes (GT/ HWM.....)........
Yaaaaay, fatties of the world unite!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/305/19778884743_1344b3283a_c.jpg)
Noel
Noel,
Thanks for chiming in with this insight. probably just swung me to the 180 side. After all I put a 200 on my 180 stock rear fitted V-Rod and have no complaints with that decision. Tip in seems to be much more about other geometric factors like rake and ride height than tire size to me anyway. BTW, I'm liking the under slung rear caliper mounting you used/made.
As Noel said.... Fat Tires Rule!!
Fred
(https://opimedia.azureedge.net/-/media/images/mcc/editorial/articles/magazine-articles/2017/03-01/1984-yamaha-fj1400/yamaha-7-jpg.jpg)
Oooooo baby, ooooooo baby, ooooooo baby.....
F**k me Pat......that is Eff-Jay'ing gorgeous :good2: :nyam2:
Does this tire make my FJ look fat?
Thanks Dean, your '89 is pretty darn bitchen too... :good:
Fat vs. Not Fat is not even a question anymore. I have to say the low mount rear caliper has to be a thing on my build now. Instructions or guides anywhere?
Are those the Honda CBR mirrors Pat ?
Rizomas
Quote from: Bud Wilkinson on July 22, 2019, 05:03:06 PM
Fat vs. Not Fat is not even a question anymore. I have to say the low mount rear caliper has to be a thing on my build now. Instructions or guides anywhere?
Here is the files link for a step by step instruction for the easiest Fat tire mod. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0)
Here is a link that gives a list of the year and model to use. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2465.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2465.0)
Fred
Thanks to all for the information. Assembling, or rather disassembling the chosen parts from the 97 YZF600R doner bike. Went this way cause the whole package front and rear was available, easy and inexpensive. Wheels are stripped and at powdercoat. Fork rebuild parts ordered. I chose the Pirelli Corsa lll in 120/70-17 and 180/55-17 for this project. Looks like the 600R fork is narrower than the FJ so tripples from 600R will have to be used.
Quote from: Motofun on June 26, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
OK, not sure I can answer all your questions, my bike started out as an FJ1100 with 16" front wheel. I replaced the kit and kaboodle with a YZF 600 front end (97 if I remember). 17" wheel, forks and triple clamps. I reused the '85 lock set/key and handle bars. I have FJR master cylinders and levers for both clutch and brake along with blue spots. It went together straight forward with the biggest issue being just how the handle bars mounted to the triples.
Motofun,
I don't suppose you can provide any more detail on how you handled the handlebar mounting or made it work? Would love to see some more detail.
Thanks,
(//) Bud, sent you a PM response...these are the pictures that go with it.
Motofun,
Thanks for the PM and pictures. That helps a lot.
Bud