Hi maybe someone more experienced can help me.
I have recently got my hands on an FJ1100 -84 (that has been sitting for 15 years) and am doing a quick refurbish to enable me to run it during the summer. Last points were to rebuild main and slave clutch cylinders. When finished the work today, including breathing the system (no air remains in system and slave piston works well), I find that the clutch does not work. It seems the clutchrod does not activate neutral anymore.
Additional information is that when I got the bike the pneumatic clutch system was drained and furthermore and a bit embarrassing, meanwhile I was working on the slave cylinder my nabour came into my garage and admired the old bike. After some discussions I started the bike to prove I got it running again (completely forgetting what I was working on) when pressure came on the clutch rod shoot out of the engine and some oil was drained. Rod didn't get damaged and I refilled the small amount of engine oil spilled. However, I fear I managed to damage something at the time as the clutch doesn't work when refitting the slave cylinder.
Can any of you more experienced guys advise what may have caused the problem and how I can mitigate the same?
Hopefully awaiting a quick answer as the Swedish MC season is short and I so keen to get the old FJ back on the road..
I am not aware of any damage caused by shooting the clutch push rod out. Except maybe spearing the family cat, but no bike damage. This is a common occurrence and nearly every FJ owner that performs their own work has done it. I did it once, now the bike key gets moved when the slave comes off.
When you say clutch not working, what is the not working issue? Won't release and allow you to find neutral? Or released and will not transfer power to the rear wheel?
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 12, 2019, 02:56:08 PM
I am not aware of any damage caused by shooting the clutch push rod out. Except maybe spearing the family cat, but no bike damage. This is a common occurrence and nearly every FJ owner that performs their own work has done it. I did it once, now the bike key gets moved when the slave comes off.
When you say clutch not working, what is the not working issue? Won't release and allow you to find neutral? Or released and will not transfer power to the rear wheel?
+1. I've shot that rod out, and no damage was caused. Likely just a bleeding issue, or maybe you need a rebuild on the master and slave
There is a ball in there at the squared end further in the motor. If that came out too; it will not engage. Stick a magnet down in there and see if you pull it out. If you do not pull it out it is gone and you need a new one.
Clutch Push Rod Ball (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ClutchPushRodBall)
Quote from: ENGINEERLARS on June 12, 2019, 01:56:21 PMHi maybe someone more experienced can help me.
I have recently got my hands on an FJ1100 -84 . . . I started the bike to prove I got it running again (completely forgetting what I was working on) when pressure came on the clutch rod shoot out of the engine and some oil was drained. Rod didn't get damaged and I refilled the small amount of engine oil spilled. However, I fear I managed to damage something at the time as the clutch doesn't work when refitting the slave cylinder.
Lars,
You may have lost the ball bearing at the end of the clutch rod. It is Index #26 in the fiche linked here:
http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/1984-yamaha-fj1100l-clutch-assembly.html (http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/1984-yamaha-fj1100l-clutch-assembly.html)
The clutch will not disengage without it. Search with a strong magnet, where the clutch-rod went.
You can bookmark this parts fiche, for future reference. :smile:
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 12, 2019, 02:56:08 PM
I am not aware of any damage caused by shooting the clutch push rod out. Except maybe spearing the family cat, but no bike damage. This is a common occurrence and nearly every FJ owner that performs their own work has done it. I did it once, now the bike key gets moved when the slave comes off.
When you say clutch not working, what is the not working issue? Won't release and allow you to find neutral? Or released and will not transfer power to the rear wheel?
Thank you for taking the time to answer and;
- Problem is that the clutch will not disengage the drive of the motor that will drive even if the clutch handle is fully pulled in.
- I have checked, and the ball bearing is still in place
- If I try to push the rod inwards just by hand it seems impossible to move (maybe normal?)
Hence, I guess I still have a problem with the master cylinder even if just rebuilt.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on June 12, 2019, 03:40:52 PM
There is a ball in there at the squared end further in the motor. If that came out too; it will not engage. Stick a magnet down in there and see if you pull it out. If you do not pull it out it is gone and you need a new one.
Clutch Push Rod Ball (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ClutchPushRodBall)
Thanks for advice , did try with a magnet and found the ball bearing to be in place so I guess it must be probelms with master cylinder even if no air in hydraulic hose
There is a tiny orifice, maybe the size of a pin head, inside that the fluid must travel through. That possibly could be clogged or one of the internal seals is bad. Could just be there is still air in the system these things can be a pain in the butt to bleed.
Also, a possibility could be the frictions are so worn the clutch pack is too short to engage. More likely the above problems I would think.
Your problem is not uncommon for a bike that has been sitting for years. The clutch plates can get stuck together. You may need to remove the clutch pack and separate the plates manually.
I vote there is still air in the line.
If not, put it in gear pull the clutch lever and try rocking it back and forth (without the motor on!) to see if you can break the plates loose manually.
I agree with Hooligan. I recently replaced the slave cylinder and know how much effort it took to bleed ALL the air out. Even a MityVac did not get it all out.
Joe
Still air in the line pull the clutch lever in and tie it into handlebar overnight with the bike on centerstand and handle bars turned to right so the reservoir get highest point .You do not need to take off the reservoir lid.
then next day if clutch not working start to bleed.
and while you are in the tie the lever into handlebar mode do it with the brake lever to and you will have a firm brake lever to .
Did you have any luck? An easy way to check if the ball is still in place is to pull ur clutch cover off, take your spring off and pull the actuator top hat looking thing out. I shot my push rod out twice and didn't lose the ball. You can also check and see if your slave is pushing the actuator rod, which in turn will push the clutch spring and release pressure on the plates. The plates could also be stuck.
Quote from: iridewheelies on June 13, 2019, 03:03:57 PM
Did you have any luck? An easy way to check if the ball is still in place is to pull ur clutch cover off, take your spring off and pull the actuator top hat looking thing out. I shot my push rod out twice and didn't lose the ball. You can also check and see if your slave is pushing the actuator rod, which in turn will push the clutch spring and release pressure on the plates. The plates could also be stuck.
Yes, I checked, and the ball bearing is still in right position. However, it seems impossible to push rod inwards and even though the slave cylinder is correctly installed and the hydraulic lines free of air it is impossible to disengage the drive. Stuck clutch plates is my guess for the moment. Tried to push the bike back and forth in gear but without any luck. Have tied handlebar and will leave it overnight to see if any changes and if not, I will remove clutch plates during the weekend.
Quote from: ENGINEERLARS on June 13, 2019, 03:34:25 PM
Quote from: iridewheelies on June 13, 2019, 03:03:57 PM
Did you have any luck? An easy way to check if the ball is still in place is to pull ur clutch cover off, take your spring off and pull the actuator top hat looking thing out. I shot my push rod out twice and didn't lose the ball. You can also check and see if your slave is pushing the actuator rod, which in turn will push the clutch spring and release pressure on the plates. The plates could also be stuck.
Yes, I checked, and the ball bearing is still in right position. However, it seems impossible to push rod inwards and even though the slave cylinder is correctly installed and the hydraulic lines free of air it is impossible to disengage the drive. Stuck clutch plates is my guess for the moment. Tried to push the bike back and forth in gear but without any luck. Have tied handlebar and will leave it overnight to see if any changes and if not, I will remove clutch plates during the weekend.
Stupid question time now I know, but.......... when you pull the clutch lever, can you feel the 'normal' resistance against the clutch lever, or can you easily pull the lever all the way back to the bars with little effort ?
I struggled to get my clutch system bled when feeding fluid through from the master cylinder and eventually I connected a pump and tube to the bleed nipple and slowly pumped (Using one of these http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/laser-multi-purpose-mini-pump?_br_psugg_q=laser+pump (http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/laser-multi-purpose-mini-pump?_br_psugg_q=laser+pump)) fresh brake fluid from the bleed nipple into the slave cylinder and up to the master cylinder - then finished off bleeding as normal - solved my clutch issues in a couple of seconds.
Quote from: Millietant on June 14, 2019, 01:07:08 AM
Quote from: ENGINEERLARS on June 13, 2019, 03:34:25 PM
Quote from: iridewheelies on June 13, 2019, 03:03:57 PM
Did you have any luck? An easy way to check if the ball is still in place is to pull ur clutch cover off, take your spring off and pull the actuator top hat looking thing out. I shot my push rod out twice and didn't lose the ball. You can also check and see if your slave is pushing the actuator rod, which in turn will push the clutch spring and release pressure on the plates. The plates could also be stuck.
Yes, I checked, and the ball bearing is still in right position. However, it seems impossible to push rod inwards and even though the slave cylinder is correctly installed and the hydraulic lines free of air it is impossible to disengage the drive. Stuck clutch plates is my guess for the moment. Tried to push the bike back and forth in gear but without any luck. Have tied handlebar and will leave it overnight to see if any changes and if not, I will remove clutch plates during the weekend.
Stupid question time now I know, but.......... when you pull the clutch lever, can you feel the 'normal' resistance against the clutch lever, or can you easily pull the lever all the way back to the bars with little effort ?
I struggled to get my clutch system bled when feeding fluid through from the master cylinder and eventually I connected a pump and tube to the bleed nipple and slowly pumped (Using one of these http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/laser-multi-purpose-mini-pump?_br_psugg_q=laser+pump (http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/laser-multi-purpose-mini-pump?_br_psugg_q=laser+pump)) fresh brake fluid from the bleed nipple into the slave cylinder and up to the master cylinder - then finished off bleeding as normal - solved my clutch issues in a couple of seconds.
Got dishes out and the were all clogged together in once solid piece. Took me 10 min to break them apart.. Now cleaned, reinstalled and clutch works again. :-) Thanks for good advises
Quote from: ENGINEERLARS on June 15, 2019, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: Millietant on June 14, 2019, 01:07:08 AM
Quote from: ENGINEERLARS on June 13, 2019, 03:34:25 PM
Quote from: iridewheelies on June 13, 2019, 03:03:57 PM
Did you have any luck? An easy way to check if the ball is still in place is to pull ur clutch cover off, take your spring off and pull the actuator top hat looking thing out. I shot my push rod out twice and didn't lose the ball. You can also check and see if your slave is pushing the actuator rod, which in turn will push the clutch spring and release pressure on the plates. The plates could also be stuck.
Yes, I checked, and the ball bearing is still in right position. However, it seems impossible to push rod inwards and even though the slave cylinder is correctly installed and the hydraulic lines free of air it is impossible to disengage the drive. Stuck clutch plates is my guess for the moment. Tried to push the bike back and forth in gear but without any luck. Have tied handlebar and will leave it overnight to see if any changes and if not, I will remove clutch plates during the weekend.
Stupid question time now I know, but.......... when you pull the clutch lever, can you feel the 'normal' resistance against the clutch lever, or can you easily pull the lever all the way back to the bars with little effort ?
I struggled to get my clutch system bled when feeding fluid through from the master cylinder and eventually I connected a pump and tube to the bleed nipple and slowly pumped (Using one of these http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/laser-multi-purpose-mini-pump?_br_psugg_q=laser+pump (http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/laser-multi-purpose-mini-pump?_br_psugg_q=laser+pump)) fresh brake fluid from the bleed nipple into the slave cylinder and up to the master cylinder - then finished off bleeding as normal - solved my clutch issues in a couple of seconds.
Got dishes out and the were all clogged together in once solid piece. Took me 10 min to break them apart.. Now cleaned, reinstalled and clutch works again. :-) Thanks for good advises
No worries. Happy to help.