So I hope this doesn't turn into one of those disagreeable subjects like tires and motor oil. Before the WCR, I had asked Robert about chain lube. Some background, a former co-worker that rode everyday had the cleanest daily chain I ever saw. I tried a couple clear formulas but bad stuff always stuck to the chain and made it look like doggy poo. So Rob offered that they use Tri-Flow. Cool, I remember using that when I was young and rode an actual bike. You know, a bicycle. At the rally, I saw someone else using Tri-Flow. I think it was Midget. A discussion ensued about how o-ring chains actually don't need lubricating because the factory lube is trapped within the o-rings and all we need to do is use a product that will clean off the chain. As an aside, I noticed that when I sprayed down the chain with Tri-Flow, I could more easily rotate the rear tire. Huh, interesting. Then I saw this Youtube video and the presenter confirmed the idea about o-rings preserving the factory lube. So, once again I learned something from fellow members. If you were there in that conversation then you know who you are.
Joe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPYdcbcAe0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPYdcbcAe0)
FWIW, I see a lot of riders spraying chain lube (whatever type they may use) from the side of the chain. Over-spray can get on the wheel, brake disk, and other unwanted places. I suggest using the plastic straw applicator, instead. I put the bike on the centerstand, start the engine and engage first gear at idle. I get behind the bike and spray the lube from just above the rear sprocket, pointed straight at the front sprocket. With the chain running slowly, I do not use the full force of the spray, but just barely press the button to flow the lube gently onto the chain. This way, there is very little lube going anywhere except onto the chain. HTH.
.
Joe, I was present. I use to be a Chain Wax guy. What a sticky mess of snot that was.
I don't lube O-ring chains. The factory lubes them and the lube should stay inside the O-rings. I only clean the outside with WD-40 or motor oil to prevent rust.
Watch this (https://youtu.be/VnPYdcbcAe0)
LOL, just realized I linked the same video. :Facepalm:
In any event, I use the WD-40 and a microfiber rag to wipe the chain as it rotates around. This keeps it from slinging off. I also use a piece of cardboard between the wheel and sprocket while I spray to keep it off the wheel.
Quote from: red on June 07, 2019, 10:38:10 PM
I do not use the full force of the spray, but just barely press the button to flow the lube gently onto the chain. This way, there is very little lube going anywhere except onto the chain. HTH.
Yep, exactly how I do it, usually after a ride while chain is warm
Then wipe off the little excess before next ride.
Don't think I've every cleaned the chain, too messy
I'm in the don't-lube-o-ring-chains camp. I stopped when I realized that anything I sprayed on the outside wasn't going to get past the o-rings. So I haven't lubed a chain in years; no problems yet! On the other hand, I live in the desert and it never rains here. If I often rode in the rain, I might feel the need to spray the chain with... something... to prevent rust.
Bill
I will use lubrication on a drive chain, even on an O-ring chain. O-rings flatten out under compression with time, and in the case of a chain, the O-rings may wear flat on each side, as the plates pivot on a sprocket. Lubrication should keep the O-rings more pliant, and help to minimize any O-ring wear from the chain plates, as the links pivot. If that lube is just a waste of my money, so be it; if lubrication prevents a chain failure, it becomes priceless. Failure of a drive chain on the FJ can destroy the engine casings, all aside from any resulting crash. My US$.02 worth.
Quote from: red on June 11, 2019, 11:36:12 PM
My US$.02 worth.
Well that's about 100$ Australian, fair bit of clout.
I will keep using lube but draw the line at cleaning the chain.
The O ring chain has to be lubed if you want it to last a longer.The guy in the video is wrong . :bomb: The o or x rings only keep some of the lube that was put there from factory and that is the lube that is on the outer surface of the inner solid pin and inner surface of the hollow tube pin.The lube that is on the inside of the outer roller / outside of the hollow pin has to be replaced repeatedly intervals with a good chainlube because the orings do not seal that lube.
The rollers need lube on the inside.
One last consideration: your sprockets will last much longer, with chain lube.
.
From the Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ring_chain): There is grease inside, not a liquid lube. I would suggest that spraying lube on the chain from the outside does nothing to the inside, except attract grit that erodes the o-rings, and the grease within keeps the o-rings supple. :bomb:
Here is a diagram that show where the chain needs to be lubed. The yellow fields is where the factory grease will disappear and need regular lubrication the red fields is where the factory grease is
sealed in "for life" or until the orings dryes out.
Interesting conundrum... Do I add lubrication to satisfy the outer hollow pin to roller interface, risking attracting grit that can compromise the o-rings, leading to factory lubrication compromise? I would suggest the hollow pin and the roller could seize together without being noticed as long as the o-ring seal is retained so the inner pin can rotate. I like the clean-only method.
A clean chain is a happy chain. Just note that clean does not equal dry. I've been using DuPoint Chain Saver (see below) for a number of years and it's worked great. It's not thick and pasty like chain wax so it doesn't collect or attract gunk. Since I started using it I was able to get close to 50,000 km out of a previous chain and sprockets and that included the 16,000 km Alaska ride. On that ride (and any other multi-day ride) I was diligent in lubing the chain on a daily basis. There were some extremely dirty, dusty, muddy, and gravelly (downright shitty) roads in the North and I only ever had to adjust the chain once the entire ride. The current chain on the FJ is at close to 30,000 km with no signs of wear and I don't recall having to adjust it other than after tire changes.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/112_12_06_19_1_12_33.jpeg)
Since I now ride an FJR1300 I haven't had to adjust or lube the chain even once!!!
Zwartie
I'm personally in the clean only camp. I clean the chain, and make sure all grit and dirt is off, but thats it. Mind you, I have had one chain snap, but I think it was an OEM chain with close to 30K miles on it.
I use gearbox oil...... 75w-90.
For few years I used syringe and few ml oil on each chain side.
Now I have DIY oiler and during ride, when chain is warm, I just press button to open valve for 20 seconds in summer time and 30 seconds when is "cold".
Centrifugal force press oil in to chain. Any oil excess will be throwaway together with dirt from chain.
Chain is always clean and moist. Bike was "lubricated" only 2-3 times when I forgot switch off valve ;)
Install one of these spray some cans of chainlube on the chain and the chain will be happy for a long time :mocking:
Quote from: CutterBill on June 11, 2019, 08:50:30 PM
...On the other hand, I live in the desert and it never rains here. If I often rode in the rain, I might feel the need to spray the chain with... something... to prevent rust.
Bill
IMHO this is probably the main reason whether you
feel the need to lube, regardless of
whether you should. I've used a Scott Oiler for a few years now. (Yes I know its Snake Oil for some of you). I just switched to using 80W90 synth gear oil for lube. (No distributor in Canada, and cheaper than their oil) I'm not averse to riding in the rain if caught in it, as seen in this shamless plug for my video showing this. (https://youtu.be/7M5PXbkafRw)
I've had the bike ready since the 1st wk of May. It hasn't stopped raining since FFS. Plus I will go down gravel roads, so it just leaves me with peace of mind, and not having to bother with it really. Even after an especially dirty ride the chain is always clean.
SnotOilers are great for a chain but they SUCK for the person riding behind you.
All the shit and oil that flies off your chain ends up on the fairing behind you.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on June 15, 2019, 09:33:47 AM
SnotOilers are great for a chain but they SUCK for the person riding behind you.
All the shit and oil that flies off your chain ends up on the fairing behind you.
Then the setting for the drip feed is too high. It doesn't require a lot. I use about a drop every 20s or so. The original bottle of Scott oil (250mL) lasted me 4 seasons. If you have an all year season, then you may go through a bottle. The instructions are pretty specific.
Oh no, its starting... a neverending chain lube thread... :flag_of_truce:
I have recently fitted a Pro-Oiler to my FJ.
Unlike the Scott Oiler, the Pro-Oiler works on distance, not time.
Ideal setting is said to be about one drop every 6km.
I ride approx 18km each way to and from work and using the recommended look-up table, after five days, the drip counter reads 30.
I am using 15W50 synthetic motor oil with approx 10% ACF50 added.
One of the best things I found having fitted the Pro-Oiler is that you are checking regularly to see if it is working and this means you are checking the chain.
So far, really pleased with the results.
When was the last time one lubricated their throttle cables?
Gotcha!
Quote from: fj-f3a on June 15, 2019, 06:40:42 PM
When was the last time one lubricated their throttle cables?
Gotcha!
Hmmm... not quite!
Never satisfied with the V1, I purchased two of the V3's - one for me and another for a friend to return a favor.
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MotionProVableV3 (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MotionProVableV3)
Rode safe.
Quote from: PaulG on June 15, 2019, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on June 15, 2019, 09:33:47 AM
SnotOilers are great for a chain but they SUCK for the person riding behind you.
All the shit and oil that flies off your chain ends up on the fairing behind you.
Then the setting for the drip feed is too high. It doesn't require a lot. I use about a drop every 20s or so. The original bottle of Scott oil (250mL) lasted me 4 seasons. If you have an all year season, then you may go through a bottle. The instructions are pretty specific.
Oh no, its starting... a neverending chain lube thread... :flag_of_truce:
Hooli, I can't see how a drop every minute or two, most of which (after it's passed through the chain) gets sucked onto the back rim could do this. From what I know of your riding, why are you sitting behind another bike anyway, especially someone daggy enough to have an oiler. :biggrin:
Paul, I find 90 is enough, a bit more frequent in the wet. I have more miles on my EK ZZZ than the
flat earther's dry chainer's, would believe, and still not even a tight spot, no vibration and that lovely sound of a freshly lubed chain when spinning the wheel on the stand.
Paul, do you have a single or double feed?
Noel
I tried a Scott Oiler and I much prefer the pump of a Pro Oiler over the Scott Oiler gravity feed.
Ever notice what happens to a bag of potato chips when you drive from sea level to say ~6500 - 7000 ft?
I had a Scott Oiler empty its entire bottle on me while on a twisty mountain road.
I had a guardian angel that day for sure...
***If you have a Scott Oiler beware....keep that bottle vent open and clear***
The Pro Oiler pump won't let that happen.
Quote from: ribbert on July 16, 2019, 09:48:43 AM
Paul, do you have a single or double feed?
Noel
I stuck with the single single feed that comes with the kit. Though I will occasionally take a trip down a gravel road, and I rarely indulge myself in hi-revving pursuits, I didn't think it was neccesary. Their concept of the lube wicking it's way through the links from the outside to the inside seemed plausible to me. So far so good. I haven't adjusted my chain for several seasons now so it seems to work for me. So I must be "daggy".... :scratch_one-s_head: ?
Oh, maybe not :shok: - from Urban Didtionary for us in the northern hemisphere
. a "dag" or "dags" is the colloquial term for the dung which collects and mats into the fleece immediately surrounding a sheep's anus; it hangs in dried-out dangling clumps which make a sound when the sheep runs, :sarcastic:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 16, 2019, 03:52:16 PM
I tried a Scott Oiler and I much prefer the pump of a Pro Oiler over the Scott Oiler gravity feed.
Ever notice what happens to a bag of potato chips when you drive from sea level to say ~6500 - 7000 ft?
I had a Scott Oiler empty its entire bottle on me while on a twisty mountain road.
I had a guardian angel that day for sure...
***If you have a Scott Oiler beware....keep that bottle vent open and clear***
The Pro Oiler pump won't let that happen.
Noted. Though I think their newer gen electronic version might take care of that (at twice the price). No - I am not a salesperson for Scott. Just your average dag. :drinks:
Quote from: PaulG on July 16, 2019, 04:26:29 PM
.... So I must be "daggy".... :scratch_one-s_head: ?
Oh, maybe not :shok: - from Urban Didtionary for us in the northern hemisphere
. a "dag" or "dags" is the colloquial term for the dung which collects and mats into the fleece immediately surrounding a sheep's anus; it hangs in dried-out dangling clumps which make a sound when the sheep runs, :sarcastic:
Haha, yes Paul that use of the word, as above, is also common within the farming community here but it is most commonly used colloquially (or as Trump would have it written in his speech notes
koll-oke-wee-al-ee) to describe someone unconcerned by trend of fashion, or as the slang dictionary describes it:
"Dag is an Australian and New Zealand slang term, also daggy (adjective) and dagging (verb, to behave in a daggy way). ... It is also used to describe an amusing, quirky and likeable person (as in, "He's a bit of a dag") and is non-pejorative."Paul, where do you have the nozzle mounted? Your description ....."Their concept of the lube wicking it's way through the links from the outside to the inside seemed plausible to me".... is back to front (or maybe it's just the terminology) Centrifugal force pushes it through from the
inside to the outside.
Pat, things have moved on. The Scott oilers are electronic with an electromagnetically operated piston that pulses to push a drop through at whatever rate it is set for. An accelerometer makes sure it only works when the bike is moving and everything can be adjusted on the fly. Simple and robust P of O.
You're right though, early vacuum operated oilers were not flash.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7507/15873351857_b916249240_c.jpg)
100k (at least) between chains, no need to clean it, never adjust chain between tyre changes, totally reliable. Love it!
Noel
Thanks Noel for the update....welcome back :good:
Yea, the new Scotty looks to be light years beyond my old unit...good for them.
I also now see that the Scotty offers the dual nozzle tips that apply the oil on both sides of the chain sprocket for better coverage on the chain. That was something I liked about my Pro Oiler.
Here are the various Pro Oiler tips
(https://www.pro-oiler.net/gallery_htm/custom_nozzles.jpg)
Here's the Scott Oiler tip
(https://www.scottoiler.com/us/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/11/dual-injector-e1519851121179.jpg)
Thinking very seriously about the automatic oilers. Keeping the chain cleaner whilst optimally lubricated are both pluses in my book, will do a bit more research.