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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fj1289 on April 22, 2019, 08:25:34 PM

Title: Firing Order
Post by: fj1289 on April 22, 2019, 08:25:34 PM
Looked it up today rather than going off of memory ... and I find two different posts where father Pat mentions 1-2-4-3....that just doesn't sound right to me...

Scratch my head - google 4 cylinder firing order and find 1-3-4-2.  I think that sounds more like it (what I've been using on the race bike in the setup files).  Then wonder why Pat is so hung up on the 1-2-4-3 order. 

Look at a Haynes manual and see the order they go thru for valve adjustment - what?  Go out and dig an intake cam out of a spares box — sure enough cylinder 2 follows cylinder 1. 

WTF - I've always used the 1-3-4-2 order on the racebike setup - but I guess it really doesn't matter with batch fuel and wasted spark!  Learning more again today!

Wonder why Yamaha went away from the "universal" 1-3-4-2 firing order?  I would guess it has to do with the center cam drive vice end cam drive on most 4 cylinder engines?

Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on April 22, 2019, 11:17:28 PM
1243

Depends on the cam grind.  1 and 4 are paired and 2 and 3.  Doesn't matter whether 3 fires first or 2.
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 23, 2019, 02:25:28 AM
Quote from: fj1289 on April 22, 2019, 08:25:34 PM
Wonder why Yamaha went away from the "universal" 1-3-4-2 firing order?  I would guess it has to do with the center cam drive vice end cam drive on most 4 cylinder engines?

Chris, I never gave it a second thought.
My previous bikes were the Honda CB500 and CB750 with the same wasted spark firing order as the FJ.
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: racerrad8 on April 23, 2019, 12:16:37 PM
I wire my race cars 4213.

People look at the spark plug wires and tell us we have it wired wrong. I make us some cock & bull story or reworking the ignition system for better power delivery and performance.

We then go and beat them.

The best part of racing is getting into the other guys head...

Kind of like a clown car mechanic setting up a real race car :bomb:

Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: ZOA NOM on April 23, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
A real race CAR doesn't have a motorcycle motor. Duh.   :bomb:
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: racerrad8 on April 23, 2019, 01:53:33 PM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on April 23, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
A real race CAR doesn't have a motorcycle motor. Duh.   :bomb:

What's the difference?

Both air & oil cooled...

The Japanese design is in inline like performance engines should be.  The German version is designed opposed after tractor engines...

Randy  - RPM
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: big r on April 23, 2019, 05:31:56 PM
 :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: ZOA NOM on April 23, 2019, 09:42:34 PM
Quote from: racerrad8 on April 23, 2019, 01:53:33 PM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on April 23, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
A real race CAR doesn't have a motorcycle motor. Duh.   :bomb:

What's the difference?

Both air & oil cooled...

The Japanese design is in inline like performance engines should be.  The German version is designed opposed after tractor engines...

Randy  - RPM

Yeah, yeah, how many CAR racing championships Yamaha vs Porsche?
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: racerrad8 on April 23, 2019, 10:32:10 PM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on April 23, 2019, 09:42:34 PM
Yeah, yeah, how many CAR racing championships Yamaha vs Porsche?

Well,  I know there have been many Yamaha powered cars over the last twenty years just from RPM.

Let's switch it around...

How many MOTORCYCLE championships porshe Vs Yamaha?

Unfortunately,  I don't think porshe has the ability to cross over.  :shok:

Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on April 23, 2019, 10:42:59 PM
The Ford SHO motor dominated racing in Japan.  It was a Yamaha engine
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: ZOA NOM on April 23, 2019, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: racerrad8 on April 23, 2019, 10:32:10 PM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on April 23, 2019, 09:42:34 PM
Yeah, yeah, how many CAR racing championships Yamaha vs Porsche?

Well,  I know there have been many Yamaha powered cars over the last twenty years just from RPM.

Let's switch it around...

How many MOTORCYCLE championships porshe Vs Yamaha?

Unfortunately,  I don't think porshe has the ability to cross over.  :shok:

Randy - RPM

Whatever. *eyeroll*
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: Millietant on April 24, 2019, 07:29:27 AM
In Rick's defence, isn't a flat six really a Helicopter engine  :good2:.......(as in a Robbie R44).

Mind you, most rotary people will tell you that the flat sixes and fours that power Helicopters are just glorified tractor engines anyway (with their 2,700 rpm red lines :sarcastic:).
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: racerrad8 on April 24, 2019, 10:43:05 AM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on April 23, 2019, 10:42:59 PM
The Ford SHO motor dominated racing in Japan.  It was a Yamaha engine

This looks like the one: https://www.rideapart.com/articles/264846/that-time-yamaha-built-ford-an-engine-and-changed-the-world/ (https://www.rideapart.com/articles/264846/that-time-yamaha-built-ford-an-engine-and-changed-the-world/)

Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: bigbore2 on April 26, 2019, 08:15:54 PM
so the smoothest AND most power producing order is 4213?

Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 26, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
You rascal Randy...see how this starts?

Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: FJ1200W on January 06, 2023, 10:06:20 AM
Kawasaki H2 Supercharged is 1-2-4-3
While I do not see it happening, I'd like to own one of those someday.
Wouldn't the "normal" tri-Y design for this be 1-4 and 2-3 then into one, rather than the 1-2 3-4 into one that seem to be the norm?
Or 1-3 2-4 just to muddy this ancient old post?
Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 06, 2023, 06:44:17 PM
Steve, yep you are correct....the best Tri Y header tube design for the gas scavenging on our FJ would be have the #1 tube merge into 4 then #2 merge into 3. However you can't do that and keep your primary tubes equal length.
Long time ago I saw a Tri Y FJ header with the #4 primary tube crossed over the #2/3 and merged with the #1 tube...it looked weird as hell.
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: RPM - Robert on January 07, 2023, 10:08:34 AM
Sure you could, Pat. A couple loopy loops here or there and your back to equal length :mail1:
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: FJmonkey on January 07, 2023, 12:13:34 PM
I think the Blueman Group made a few versions as well.
Title: Re: Firing Order
Post by: FJ1200W on January 09, 2023, 08:24:39 PM
I'm pretty sure this was my "gateway" exhaust.