It was a sunny day here today and I really wanted to ride but it was time to get into the engine and see what was causing the low compression in #3 and smoke out the breather at idle.
It has been tough riding around with everyone at the stoplight telling me my bike was on fire. So after trying some alternative fixes I should not mention, I removed the engine from the bike with the help of Craig Z. He had never removed an engine from the FJ before so I was more than happy to let him lend a helping hand.
Well the engine is out and will be disassembled shortly .... stay tuned .
What's it going to take? Team work.
Well done the Sacramento posse for digging deep and getting her done.
Good luck Mark on your road to recovery.
We're rooting for you.
Best case: cylinder hone, fresh rings, fresh viton valve seals and lap the valves.
Might as well put a new starter chain and valve timing chain on while you're in there.
How many miles are on your engine Mark?
Gonna gear it down tonight...soon.
I am hoping for rings.
This engine was rebuilt 20k ago by previous owner.
Bike only has 36k miles.
2nd time opened up.
Trans was rebuilt by RPM and they Took care of any problems down low.
All timing marks are perfect.
Promised Craig to wait for him.
What about the starter clutch while the case is apart?
Joe
Starter clutch was worked over. All good.
Piston is broken at ring lands , also rings broken . gonna need a new piston. :ireful:
How does the #3 cylinder wall look?
If you have a non-repairable cylinder block...... This is a drop in kit that requires no machine work.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-FJ-Big-Bore-FJ1100-Block-1250cc-Wiseco-Piston-Kit-Cylinder-Block/181220128398?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-FJ-Big-Bore-FJ1100-Block-1250cc-Wiseco-Piston-Kit-Cylinder-Block/181220128398?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)
Fred
Very interesting .Im in the middle of rebuilding my engine .Do you know what was done with the pistons and if the previus owner honed the cylinders and installed new pistonrings?
I honed the cylinders on mine yesterday but to be honest i dont know what im doing only working from what i have read about honing.
Please post some pics of the cylinders
Quote from: aviationfred on January 14, 2019, 11:16:08 PM
How does the #3 cylinder wall look?
If you have a non-repairable cylinder block...... This is a drop in kit that requires no machine work.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-FJ-Big-Bore-FJ1100-Block-1250cc-Wiseco-Piston-Kit-Cylinder-Block/181220128398?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-FJ-Big-Bore-FJ1100-Block-1250cc-Wiseco-Piston-Kit-Cylinder-Block/181220128398?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)
Fred
You are the devil :diablo: Fred.
Of course I would love to go big bore kit .... however it is not in the cards at this time. The cylinder block is in good shape and the hatch pattern is still visible , I am probably just gonna ring it and go.
Quote from: Old Rider on January 15, 2019, 03:00:50 AM
Very interesting .Im in the middle of rebuilding my engine .Do you know what was done with the pistons and if the previus owner honed the cylinders and installed new pistonrings?
I honed the cylinders on mine yesterday but to be honest i dont know what im doing only working from what i have read about honing.
Please post some pics of the cylinders
On my engine the previous owner had an alleged rebuild done with new pistons. What I found was stock pistons .. It appears that only a set of rings was changed and a valve job on the head.
On your engine , you will need to get accurate measurements of the pistons and cylinders to see it you are within clearance limits. How much wear and taper do you have from top to bottom?
If the wear is not to bad you can run a hone to break the glaze and put a 45 degree cross hatch pattern on your cylinders.
I will post pics when I am at that stage of reassembly.
upon further inspection , the number 2 piston is cracked at the ring lands between top and second groove.
I will be checking out some standard pistons from a local source later this week.
Quote from: Mark Olson on January 15, 2019, 02:45:07 PM
Quote from: Old Rider on January 15, 2019, 03:00:50 AM
Very interesting .Im in the middle of rebuilding my engine .Do you know what was done with the pistons and if the previus owner honed the cylinders and installed new pistonrings?
I honed the cylinders on mine yesterday but to be honest i dont know what im doing only working from what i have read about honing.
Please post some pics of the cylinders
On my engine the previous owner had an alleged rebuild done with new pistons. What I found was stock pistons .. It appears that only a set of rings was changed and a valve job on the head.
On your engine , you will need to get accurate measurements of the pistons and cylinders to see it you are within clearance limits. How much wear and taper do you have from top to bottom?
If the wear is not to bad you can run a hone to break the glaze and put a 45 degree cross hatch pattern on your cylinders.
I will post pics when I am at that stage of reassembly.
That looks bad did the bore get damaged beyond repair or can it be rebored or change cylinder sleeve? What do you think caused this ? can it be that there was a ridge on top of
cylinders and the new pistonrings broke off after hammering that ridge? are there honemarks in cylinders?
About my engine rebuild yes i need to get more accurate measurements i have ordered a dial bore gauge.
Quote from: Old Rider on January 21, 2019, 03:43:46 AM
That looks bad did the bore get damaged beyond repair or can it be rebored or change cylinder sleeve?yes and no , checking if rings were even done before What do you think caused this ?my unique riding style can it be that there was a ridge on top of
cylinders and the new pistonrings broke off after hammering that ridge?maybe are there honemarks in cylinders? yes , they appear factory or very good machine shop
About my engine rebuild yes i need to get more accurate measurements i have ordered a dial bore gauge.
I have been watching your rebuild thread and must say I am not a fan of plastiguage . I use micrometers and snap guages , inside mics.
My engine has only 36k miles on it . I have been quite aggressive with it for a lot of those miles.
some might say i simply burned it up..
The damaged pistons show that the intake side of the cylinder got very hot. I have thrashed the engine on very hot days up to 105 degrees at times. It goes to logic that I will need a larger oil cooler if I continue in my evil ways.
pics and measurements will be posted soon.
Quote from: Mark Olson on January 21, 2019, 05:51:31 PM
The damaged pistons show that the intake side of the cylinder got very hot...It goes to logic that I will need a larger oil cooler if I continue in my evil ways.
No doubt a RPM Oil cooler is good, high quality ester base oil is good, but they are no substitute for jetting.
Jetting, jetting, jetting...nice fat jetting for hot weather kookaloo rides. Your engine will thank you.
It has been determined that my piston lands were cracked from poor rebuild methods.
So 20k ago when the PO had the bent rod fixed and they reringed the Pistons and rebuilt the head, they screwed up and cocked the 2_3 Pistons upon install and cracked the ring lands.
It's kinda amazing the engine ran for 20k before finally craping out.
Shows how tough that lump of aluminum is.
Joe
Quote from: Mark Olson on January 22, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
It's kinda amazing the engine ran for 20k before finally craping out.
20K of your flogging it like it owed you money. :mad: That's like "Dog Years"
But I know you love it, you slid under your FJ when it lost traction. :blush:
Quote from: Mark Olson on January 22, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
It has been determined that my piston lands were cracked from poor rebuild methods.
So 20k ago when the PO had the bent rod fixed and they reringed the Pistons and rebuilt the head, they screwed up and cocked the 2_3 Pistons upon install and cracked the ring lands.
It's kinda amazing the engine ran for 20k before finally craping out.
Who made that determination? That would be uncommon for pistons fitted from the bottom.
Mark, you allude to the fact you ride it hard, how high do you rev it when flogging it?
Noel
Noel,
It's very easy to screw it up if you don't use ring compressors.
I've seen people try to install the pistons without using one. They compress the rings by hand or use a screwdriver.
Some are successful, some are not. The unsuccessful ones usually (unknowingly) break a ring or crack the ring land.
Yea, along with not clocking the ring gaps correctly or installing the #2 compression ring upside down can cause grief.
I'm surprised with the piston damage, the cylinder walls were not affected.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on January 23, 2019, 10:38:05 AM
Noel,
It's very easy to screw it up if you don't use ring compressors.
I've seen people try to install the pistons without using one. They compress the rings by hand or use a screwdriver.
Some are successful, some are not. The unsuccessful ones usually (unknowingly) break a ring or crack the ring land.
I had read it as a cracked piston. Having a ring compressor is no guarantee of not screwing it up either, I've seen plenty, however a large tension wrench in the hands of someone with a workshop manual and no "feel" does the most damage.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on January 24, 2019, 07:44:12 AM
....a large tension wrench in the hands of someone with a workshop manual and no "feel" does the most damage.
So so true. I know many of those types. Like handing a baby a loaded gun.
They are usually the ones that ask for the torque on every single fastener. I'll use a torque wrench on engine components (head bolts/nuts, cam/crank/rod caps, etc), brake calipers and axles. Just about everything else gets torqued by hand. Always been a bit hesitant about using a torque wrench on small(ish) fasteners in aluminum.
Yep especially when one is armed with a cheap torque wrench. Would you believe I once tried to torque the little bolts on the clutch. Well I only needed the sheered bolt head off the first one to stop me trying the others that is. Live and learn.
Quote from: ribbert on January 23, 2019, 07:24:39 AM
Quote from: Mark Olson on January 22, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
It has been determined that my piston lands were cracked from poor rebuild methods.
So 20k ago when the PO had the bent rod fixed and they reringed the Pistons and rebuilt the head, they screwed up and cocked the 2_3 Pistons upon install and cracked the ring lands.
It's kinda amazing the engine ran for 20k before finally craping out.
Who made that determination? That would be uncommon for pistons fitted from the bottom. i did after my research.
Mark, you allude to the fact you ride it hard, how high do you rev it when flogging it? all the way to the rev limiter
Noel
Hey Noel , long time since I heard from you . How Ya been?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 23, 2019, 04:19:10 PM
Yea, along with not clocking the ring gaps correctly or installing the #2 compression ring upside down can cause grief.
I'm surprised with the piston damage, the cylinder walls were not affected.
well pat , that is because of the oil I used. AMSOIL :blum1:
Quote from: FJmonkey on January 22, 2019, 11:22:36 PM
Quote from: Mark Olson on January 22, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
It's kinda amazing the engine ran for 20k before finally craping out.
20K of your flogging it like it owed you money. :mad: That's like "Dog Years"
But I know you love it, you slid under your FJ when it lost traction. :blush:
Monkey , I did not realize those were dog years ... and of course I love my FJ enough to protect it from hitting the ground. :crazy:
maybe it is time for case guards.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on January 24, 2019, 08:09:33 PM
Quote from: ribbert on January 24, 2019, 07:44:12 AM
....a large tension wrench in the hands of someone with a workshop manual and no "feel" does the most damage.
So so true. I know many of those types. Like handing a baby a loaded gun.
They are usually the ones that ask for the torque on every single fastener. I'll use a torque wrench on engine components (head bolts/nuts, cam/crank/rod caps, etc), brake calipers and axles. Just about everything else gets torqued by hand. Always been a bit hesitant about using a torque wrench on small(ish) fasteners in aluminum.
So true .. I am with you on that.
I picked up some donor pistons today. Now I just have to check them out. :yahoo:
Hey guys, update on my FJ .
The cylinder was scored and after a hone job to clean it up the clearance was past limits. :negative:
I remembered talking with George Bowers about Kim and Steph having some FJ engine parts gathering dust since he quit riding.
Yes some of you may remember who I speak of.
Turns out they had a 1100 cyl bored out to standard 1200, Pistons custom fit to each bore , Rings , wrist pins, clips, gasket set , o-rings ETC.
Everything I needed to put my engine back together.
So this weekend is wrenchapolusa :good2:
If all goes well I will ride sunday.
I will take pics .... Maybe
Mark, please say a warm hello to Kim & Steph for me....is Steph still flying for Cal Fire?
She is quite a gal and one hell of a rider! I miss those two....
It's Alive! :yahoo:
I was finally able to carve out some time to work on the FJ and finish installing the new cylinder and pistons .
The rings were a bitch to deal with due to the small taper left after you bore out a 1100 cyl to 1200 size.
everything was cool except the rear chain guide needed to be shaved a touch to clear the 1100 cyl.
My FJ is 100% back together and running great so far....knock knock knock on wood.
I am 12 miles into the break in and plan to ride tomorrow Sunday and reach my 500 mile oil change.
The RPM rally is less than 3 weeks and I plan to be ready to turn and burn.
yes I actually took some pics , so enjoy my crazy method of engine installation.
More pics..
most important pic.
I only made it 50 miles before my battery died.
Ran good up to that point. :wacko3:
Nice Job on the rebuild Mark! :good2:
I just had to replace the Battery in my FJ also...............after having "slow-crank" issues for the past year, it finally would not crank at all.
New Battery and now it cranks like I pulled the spark-plugs out! :drinks:
Mark,
I just got a battery off the shelf at Autozone for $104.
Its a gel type without a vent.
The guy at autozone said they are miles better than an acid fill and can take more irregular current like the Fj electrics love to throw out.
The standard batteries from Wally World are about half this price, but I'm thinking these are better value.
Only time will tell.
So far, so good.
Andy
I am checking on my options for battery replacement ... possibly lithium, but I think my charging system may kill it. gonna flip a coin.
Quote from: Mark Olson on September 23, 2019, 08:55:16 PMI only made it 50 miles before my battery died. Ran good up to that point.
If the engine quit running because the battery died, that means the alternator is not working. A new battery won't help.
Bill
Quote from: CutterBill on September 24, 2019, 08:01:58 PM
Quote from: Mark Olson on September 23, 2019, 08:55:16 PMI only made it 50 miles before my battery died. Ran good up to that point.
If the engine quit running because the battery died, that means the alternator is not working. A new battery won't help.
Bill
Let me clear that up... I rode 50 miles and stopped to hydrate and smoke , when I tried to start the bike the battery was dead 5v. The alternator is fine 14.2V normally when the engine is on.
I knew I might have a dead battery before i went on the ride but It had charged up from being flat. I was surprised it charged at all being an agm .
Anyway I replaced the Battery with a new agm again and this time I will pay attention to it....Ha Ha. :rofl:
Moving on ...... The FJ is running great and rebuild smoke is almost gone , still have some on deceleration but I only have 350 miles on it.
power is good and strong . I went riding with Zari and George on sunday and had them watch my smoke . We rode around Coloma area on the roads some of you may remember from the WCR a couple of years ago. I tried to keep the revs down for break in time and Craig had brought along his default stepson who was riding a Hyosung 250 thumper so i rode in the back to watch him . This kept me from going crazy and just winding the shit out of the motor... however I did succumb to my inner demons and blasted up to triple digits once or twice.
So I should have the oil changed at 500 mi just in time for the RPM fall rally ... :good2:
Yay, I think this years RPM rally will be even better than last year's
See you there.