"Do I still love the FJ? Absolutely! Would I take it on another multi-day ride? If/when I do some of the much-needed maintenance, I may consider it but only if I'm riding solo. I'm still waffling with the idea of selling the FJ and just "moving on" but when I see how many are up for sale and how little they are going for I'm thinking I'll likely just hang onto it, at least for now..."
Zwartie
I see the average price of a FJ in fair shape to be about $2000. Some in great shape can command around $3000 even with a lot of mods. The price of FJ's has been the same for a number of years. I am very happy with this as this makes the FJ a great bike for the money. You can buy one and put a lot of upgrades in it and it will still be cheaper than a lot of used bikes both older and newer.
Any ideas as to why the FJ is so reasonably priced?
Dave
Look up 1980's Porsche 911's... :shok:
I just did a quick search on Kijiji and it looks like there are 6 or 7 FJ's currently for sale in Ontario. The asking prices range between $1,500 CDN and $4,000 CDN and the average price is around $2,500 CDN (approx. $1,800 USD). My "highly modified" '92 FJ has over 160,000 km (100,000 miles) on the odometer. It has about 60,000 km on it since the top end was redone and the bike has been well maintained. That being said, would anyone pay top dollar for it? Not likely. I'm thinking I could maybe get $1,500 CDN for it at this time and for that price I might as well hang onto it and enjoy it myself. My insurance company said they have no problem switching insurance from one bike to the other so I might just ride the FJ for half the season and switch to the FJR for the other half.
By comparison, there's a 2005 FJR1300 for sale in Niagara Falls area with 185,000 km and the owner is asking $2,000 CDN for it. Sure it has lots of kms as well but as bullet-proof as the FJ1200 motor may be, I'm told that the FJR1300 motor is even that much more bullet-proof. That's a pretty good deal for a "modern" motorcycle. Maybe even a better comparison is the Suzuki Bandit 1250 - a guy in Hamilton, ON has a 2007 with 25,000 km on it and is asking $3,500 CDN. We're talking liquid cooling and fuel injection for not much more than what's being asked for an FJ.
Quote from: TexasDave on November 29, 2018, 10:54:40 AM
I see the average price of a FJ in fair shape to be about $2000. Some in great shape can command around $3000 even with a lot of mods. The price of FJ's has been the same for a number of years. I am very happy with this as this makes the FJ a great bike for the money. You can buy one and put a lot of upgrades in it and it will still be cheaper than a lot of used bikes both older and newer.
Any ideas as to why the FJ is so reasonably priced?
Dave
I think a lot of it is down to "fashion" and a fair bit to the lack of general knowledge amongst bikers as to how good a FJ really can be and they were not known as the "height of fashion" bikes even in their heyday (Maverick wouldn't have looked as cool in Top Gun riding a FJ !).
As I don't ever intend to sell mine, it's not an issue for me - but something that really shocked me a couple of years ago was that a dealer was prepared to offer me £1,250 as trade in for the FJ against a new Tuono V4 (unseen, but on the basis of a mileage of over 55,000 and in "good" condition (before I restored it)).
The same dealer would only offer me the same £1,250 as trade in for my totally mint, 20,000 mile, 2003 RSV Mille against a Tuono V4 - which I just couldn't understand, as anything similar was going for upwards of £3,250.
On top of this, Yamaha XS250 (1970's turd of a low powered leaner bike that was a total sales flop) based amateur built (if that's the right word) "Brat" bikes are being touted at upwards of £1,500-£2,000 - because the "Brat" style is fashionable :Facepalm:
The only things I took from this were that there is no logic to second hand bike prices except that fashion is more important than any kind of function, in today's market, and....bike dealers are just profit-hungry charlatans who don't give a hoot about customers and just want to make short term money and get out.
Call me a cynic if you will (I am), but you can probably guess that I never bought a Tuono V4 - and with dealers like this, I'll likely never buy a new bike again even though I could comfortably afford to (I just don't like being taken to the cleaners by low morality people).
Quote from: Millietant on November 29, 2018, 02:08:42 PM
...Call me a cynic if you will (I am), but you can probably guess that I never bought a Tuono V4 - and with dealers like this, I'll likely never buy a new bike again even though I could comfortably afford to (I just don't like being taken to the cleaners by low morality people).
I'm with you Dean.
Remember, it's not the non-recurring cost to worry about, it's the recurring costs that will kill you.
The Tuono V4's are wonderful bikes, that make wonderful sounds and haul ass, however with their shim under bucket design necessitating cam removal for valve adjustments, ask your dealer how much that service would cost. (hint: be sitting down)
My buddy, who is a Ducati fanboy, just spent $1,600 on a valve adjustment (just labor, parts were extra)
For sure, the initial buy in to FJ ownership is low, that's good, but it's the low recurring costs that make our FJ's a bargain.
There is something to be said about old school simplicity.
Quote from: TexasDave on November 29, 2018, 10:54:40 AM
Any ideas as to why the FJ is so reasonably priced?
Dave
Here's my two cents, based upon someone that was alive when they were new and just recently purchased a
FJ.
1) They're old. Love 'em or not, let's face it. Our machines are old. Many are over 30 years old. Compare that to being in 1988 and looking to buy a 1958 motorcycle at that time. Not a single rider I know would consider buying such a vintage motorcycle now. Many questioned my decision to buy a FJ last year.
2) The FJ riders are getting older. Similar to classic/collectible cars, the market seems to be driven by the people that were alive when said vehicle was new or slightly used. That age set of buyer has the fondest memories of seeing/riding/driving/ knowing an owner way back when and that buyer wants to relive that past. I for one wanted a FJ since they were new but could never afford the $5k price. Now they're relatively cheap and bought in while still physically able to ride.
3) They're carbureted. Let's face it, carbs are relics of the past. Yes, they're simple, reliable and can perform admirably. But, when was the last new motorcycle made with carbs? How about the last passenger vehicle? New buyers would be very wary of a carbed motorcycle because they don't understand them. All of us over 40 lived with carbureted vehicles on a daily basis so we're not put off by them.
4) Yamaha made a LOT of them. That means the supply is still relatively high. If you want a FJ, there are plenty to choose from and that keeps prices down.
Those are my four major issues that keep FJ prices reasonable. We are soooooo fortunate to have RPM servicing our vintage model. My other Yamaha, a FZR, has no such vendor.
Joe
Thankfully Pat, I have some very good friends who are able to look after the Aprilia V4 for me, at "mates-rates".
My neighbour just paid out nearly $2k for a valve service and a couple of other bits, before he even to,d me that he'd bought the bike (a second hand RSV4). This guy has an ex Shinya Nakano ZXRR MotoGP bike in his living room as well as an ex Jeremy McWilliams Ilmor MotoGP bike in his garage, one of Aaron Slight's RC 35's, a Desmosedici, Yamaha R7, MV Augusta F4 and many more....... and with all this, he still went to a dealer to get his RSV4 done...WTF.
For the FJ, I try to do everything myself, but when I get stuck I have a great mechanic and ex FJ racer as my best buddy, close to home. It does make living with the FJ even easier :good2: :good2:
Quote from: Tuned forks on November 29, 2018, 06:32:03 PM
Quote from: TexasDave on November 29, 2018, 10:54:40 AM
Any ideas as to why the FJ is so reasonably priced?
Dave
Here's my two cents, based upon someone that was alive when they were new and just recently purchased a
FJ.
1) They're old. Love 'em or not, let's face it. Our machines are old. Many are over 30 years old. Compare that to being in 1988 and looking to buy a 1958 motorcycle at that time. Not a single rider I know would consider buying such a vintage motorcycle now. Many questioned my decision to buy a FJ last year.
2) The FJ riders are getting older. Similar to classic/collectible cars, the market seems to be driven by the people that were alive when said vehicle was new or slightly used. That age set of buyer has the fondest memories of seeing/riding/driving/ knowing an owner way back when and that buyer wants to relive that past. I for one wanted a FJ since they were new but could never afford the $5k price. Now they're relatively cheap and bought in while still physically able to ride.
3) They're carbureted. Let's face it, carbs are relics of the past. Yes, they're simple, reliable and can perform admirably. But, when was the last new motorcycle made with carbs? How about the last passenger vehicle? New buyers would be very wary of a carbed motorcycle because they don't understand them. All of us over 40 lived with carbureted vehicles on a daily basis so we're not put off by them.
4) Yamaha made a LOT of them. That means the supply is still relatively high. If you want a FJ, there are plenty to choose from and that keeps prices down.
Those are my four major issues that keep FJ prices reasonable. We are soooooo fortunate to have RPM servicing our vintage model. My other Yamaha, a FZR, has no such vendor.
Joe
I think you're right on the money there Joe - but I really don't get why piles of crap from the 1970's that have had their performance "reduced", by daft modifications to the inlet and exhaust, such as the old Kawasaki Z400/440 twins, Honda CX 500's and other small bore "buckets" with exhaust wrap and knobbly tyres, cost more than a decent FJ to buy - and it seems the buyers were too young to be around in the 70's who are buying them at such ridiculous prices !
I'm just too old to understand young minds !
Quote from: Millietant on November 29, 2018, 06:34:06 PM
Thankfully Pat, I have some very good friends who are able to look after the Aprilia V4 for me, at "mates-rates....
Well now, ^^^ that's a game changer. :good2:
I would be all over a Tuono in a heart beat. They are bitchen bikes. I don't mind paying $10k-15k for the bike, it's the crazy high dealer service costs that frost my ass.
Besides, the closest Aprilla dealer to me is over 100 miles away.....although I do like that bike....
What's the problem with shim under bucket? If you want the high rev'ing bikes, that's what you're gonna get. True, a valve adjustment job is a 6 beer job vs the FJ's 2 beer....so what, I like beer! :good2:
Truth be told, I have done 4 valve adjustments on SUB engines and hated them all....The FJ and my CBX were a piece of cake compared the the race bikes.
The other thread is talking about about the FJR...guess what...shim under bucket there too.
This thread got me thinking...(dangerous, I know). What the world needs is a vernier type device that you place between the cam lobe and the top of the tappet that you can dial in and get the precise gap. No fussing with multiple shims and trying to get the right "feel". Take your numbers and calculate the exact change in shim size that you need. I hate to tell you how many times I had to pull the cam shafts multiple times to fix an improper shim selection..... :dash2:
OK, I can't stop thinking about this...I wonder if plasti-gauge might work? Anyone ever try something like this? You'd have to figure out how to depress the valve to insert the PG and then release it to squash the strip....hmmmmm
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 29, 2018, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: Millietant on November 29, 2018, 06:34:06 PM
Thankfully Pat, I have some very good friends who are able to look after the Aprilia V4 for me, at "mates-rates....
Well now, ^^^ that's a game changer. :good2:
I would be all over a Tuono in a heart beat. They are bitchen bikes. I don't mind paying $10k-15k for the bike, it's the crazy high dealer service costs that frost my ass.
Besides, the closest Aprilla dealer to me is over 100 miles away.....although I do like that bike....
I just don't like dealers refusing to budge on the +$20k price they're asking for the TV4 and then refusing to give me a fair deal for the RSV (trade in at 30% of dealer retail prices for the same bike). Feels like I'm being had-over, twice in the one deal.
But, the real issue is that we're down to 5 bikes now (from 11 a couple of years ago) and another one would just sit there not being ridden, like all of those I've just gotten rid of - and even though my wife is a rider too, I don't think she'd be happy if I bought a bike just to sit in the garage for the odd occasion when I'd want to ride something different to what we've already got :dash2: - and I've got a RSV4 Factory at my disposal from my neighbour if I really want a bit of madness :good2:
$20k+ for a Factory TV4? That's stupid crazy, here's what they are going for over here: https://tinyurl.com/ya728s4x
Do we really need 15k rpm street bikes? Do we really need SUB valve gear on street bikes?
I think Motus had the right answer with their 1600cc V4 with hydraulic lifters.
The issue is moot. We will be on electrics within 10 years. Enjoy it while we can.
Quote from: Tuned forks on November 29, 2018, 06:32:03 PM
3) They're carbureted. Let's face it, carbs are relics of the past. Yes, they're simple, reliable and can perform admirably. But, when was the last new motorcycle made with carbs? How about the last passenger vehicle? New buyers would be very wary of a carbed motorcycle because they don't understand them. All of us over 40 lived with carbureted vehicles on a daily basis so we're not put off by them.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I am put off by carburetors. They are annoying and can be finicky. They are not simpler than fuel injection - they have more parts, more passages to clog, more places to leak. I just put a BMW K100 back on the road. It's ancient fuel injection, 1986, FJ's contemporary. I decided to save me some trouble and just replaced all injectors. $50 and 10 minutes, nothing to adjust. And I can take a trip not worrying about elevation.
The problem is, there really isn't an FJ equivalent in fuel injected bikes. FJR is the closest, but they are a lot more expensive.
Yeah - a recent enquiry on a RR version left me with a price of £15, 594, which at today's exchange rates is getting on for $21k.
They're advertised in "special deals" as being available for £11,995 - but that's only if you buy under their personal finance plans, which mean you end up paying the same amount at the end, what with fees and interest. When I said I'd like to buy for cash, the answer was that there wouldn't be the discount that they can offer with the finance deals :dash2:
For the factory version on the same basis would cost £19,552 - i.e. Over $26k - the advertised "special deal" price was £15,995, but again, the discount wasn't available for a cash purchase.
I'm happy to stick with older, big bore bikes with carbs - I can deal with these myself and anyway, what's the joy in owning a bike when all you can really do to "improve" it is buy off the shelf parts from accessory manufacturers or specialists (rather than buying parts that you have to make fit and which actually do "improve" the bike). There's a certain satisfaction in this that I just can't get from a new bike (my RSV was totally stock except for an aftermarket can, after 15 years of ownership !!!). I like to spend too much time with spanners, screwdrivers, files, etc - or as Liz says - I like to spend time in the garage "polishing my nuts".
Quote from: Millietant on November 30, 2018, 11:01:11 AM
I'm happy to stick with older, big bore bikes with carbs - I can deal with these myself and anyway, what's the joy in owning a bike when all you can really do to "improve" it is buy off the shelf parts from accessory manufacturers or specialists (rather than buying parts that you have to make fit and which actually do "improve" the bike). There's a certain satisfaction in this that I just can't get from a new bike.
Bingo! Well said :good2:
Quote from: Millietant on November 29, 2018, 06:41:46 PM
I think you're right on the money there Joe - but I really don't get why piles of crap from the 1970's that have had their performance "reduced", by daft modifications to the inlet and exhaust, such as the old Kawasaki Z400/440 twins, Honda CX 500's and other small bore "buckets" with exhaust wrap and knobbly tyres, cost more than a decent FJ to buy - and it seems the buyers were too young to be around in the 70's who are buying them at such ridiculous prices !
.........
It's because of this guy
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4846/46060236542_f7faa8e936_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dbbKBm)
C-mon fellas, our beasts may be oooooold, but they still have more performance than most riders have ability (me included), EVEN in stock shit set-up.
Quote from: Motofun on November 30, 2018, 09:28:06 AM
OK, I can't stop thinking about this...I wonder if plasti-gauge might work? Anyone ever try something like this? You'd have to figure out how to depress the valve to insert the PG and then release it to squash the strip....hmmmmm
My very first thought, as well. Having never used PlastiGauge (or done a valve adjustment on anything since the '64 Rambler I used to own), I just wonder about the potential for altering the measurement when removing the PlastiGauge...
Someone needs to give this a shot.
Quote from: Motofun on November 30, 2018, 06:47:36 AM
This thread got me thinking...(dangerous, I know). What the world needs is a vernier type device that you place between the cam lobe and the top of the tappet that you can dial in and get the precise gap. No fussing with multiple shims and trying to get the right "feel". Take your numbers and calculate the exact change in shim size that you need. I hate to tell you how many times I had to pull the cam shafts multiple times to fix an improper shim selection..... :dash2:
Someone beat you to it......the perfect measuring tool already exists, what could possibly be easier, quicker or more accurate?
(https://www.homelectrical.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_500x500/public/images/product/unsorted1/j00mm9_rbg.jpg?itok=AXQWZFI_)
If you are pulling your camshafts multiple times to correct the wrong shim selection the fault is not with the measuring tool (I don't even understand this..??).
It would not be difficult to do with plastigauge but why would you bother. Good on you for thinking outside the square but it just turns a simple job into a complicated one. If you want to measure a gap, what can be simpler than inserting a measuring tool designed for just that application?
Noel
Noel
Quote from: JPaganel on November 30, 2018, 10:52:18 AM
I am put off by carburetors. They are annoying and can be finicky.
There is no doubt FI is a great improvement, even from it earliest days it offered performance enhancement and was trouble free for the life of the vehicle, but the issues you speak of caused by carbies is IMO greatly over stated. Once set up with proper filtration and supply and tuned, that should be the end of it for a very long time.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on December 01, 2018, 05:58:11 AM
Quote from: Motofun on November 30, 2018, 06:47:36 AM
This thread got me thinking...(dangerous, I know). What the world needs is a vernier type device that you place between the cam lobe and the top of the tappet that you can dial in and get the precise gap. No fussing with multiple shims and trying to get the right "feel". Take your numbers and calculate the exact change in shim size that you need. I hate to tell you how many times I had to pull the cam shafts multiple times to fix an improper shim selection..... :dash2:
Someone beat you to it......the perfect measuring tool already exists, what could possibly be easier, quicker or more accurate?
(https://www.homelectrical.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_500x500/public/images/product/unsorted1/j00mm9_rbg.jpg?itok=AXQWZFI_)
If you are pulling your camshafts multiple times to correct the wrong shim selection the fault is not with the measuring tool (I don't even understand this..??).
It would not be difficult to do with plastigauge but why would you bother. Good on you for thinking outside the square but it just turns a simple job into a complicated one. If you want to measure a gap, what can be simpler than inserting a measuring tool designed for just that application?
Noel
Noel
I have at least 3 sets of feeler gauges but I still seem to get a problem finding the one gauge that accurately "just" fits. It seems I'm always interpolating between one that's too big and one that's too loose. Then, when I calculate the correct replacement shim it is nothing more than an educated guess. I put the whole thing back together, remeasure, and don't like the results. Do it over....arrggg. Perhaps I don't have the right touch with the feeler gauge? Sometimes I can sort of force a gauge into the gap but I figure that's not proper either. The factory must have a better way of doing this. I can't believe they spend the amount of time on this that I do.
I'll add that I mic all my shims and find that the markings on them are only close, there is quite a bit of variation.
Quote from: Motofun on December 01, 2018, 07:33:17 AM
I have at least 3 sets of feeler gauges but I still seem to get a problem finding the one gauge that accurately "just" fits. It seems I'm always interpolating between one that's too big and one that's too loose. Then, when I calculate the correct replacement shim it is nothing more than an educated guess. I put the whole thing back together, remeasure, and don't like the results. Do it over....arrggg. Perhaps I don't have the right touch with the feeler gauge? Sometimes I can sort of force a gauge into the gap but I figure that's not proper either. The factory must have a better way of doing this. I can't believe they spend the amount of time on this that I do.
Something doesn't sound right here. You just keep increasing (or decreasing) the thickness of the feelers until they fit snugly. "
Then, when I calculate the correct replacement shim it is nothing more than an educated guess" This should not be the case, it is just simple arithmetic, no guess work about it. I would strongly advise working entirely in one system eg Metric, rather than a mish mash of both, converting as you go, that is asking for trouble.
Have you watched any on-line tutorials and why are you pulling the cams?
Noel
Apparently motofun needs to buy a hold down tool.I know some don't like imperial measurements but I've never found it difficult to use.I look for a tight .005" for intakes and a loose .006" for exhaust.not much of a problem.When calculating shims it's one easy conversion factor and an addition or subtraction problem and you have your new shim.
I'm with Noel....I don't understand what you guys are talking about. It's not about measurements.
The process for measuring the cam to lifter clearance with the FJ's shim over bucket (SOB) is the same as an engine with the shim under bucket (SUB)
The problem come in when it becomes time to change the shims.
Currently we use the tool to hold our spring down so we can slide out the shim.
With the SUB engine to get to the shim, you have to remove the bucket first (because the shim is under the bucket).
To remove the bucket you have to loosen the timing chains and remove the cams, thus the added hassle and costs.
Quote from: Motofun on December 01, 2018, 07:33:17 AM
I have at least 3 sets of feeler gauges but I still seem to get a problem finding the one gauge that accurately "just" fits. It seems I'm always interpolating between one that's too big and one that's too loose. Then, when I calculate the correct replacement shim it is nothing more than an educated guess. I put the whole thing back together, remeasure, and don't like the results. Do it over....arrggg. Perhaps I don't have the right touch with the feeler gauge? Sometimes I can sort of force a gauge into the gap but I figure that's not proper either. The factory must have a better way of doing this. I can't believe they spend the amount of time on this that I do.
I'll add that I mic all my shims and find that the markings on them are only close, there is quite a bit of variation.
The size feeler gauges we need to adjust shims come in .001 increments, so you are loosing sleep over being half of one thou out. In the real world half a thou will not make even the tiniest bit of a difference to your valve adjustment. Feller gauges either fit or not fit into a gap, if it feels tight, deduct half a thou from the measurement, if it feels slightly loose, add half a thou to the measurement. Very simple until you start to over-think it!
Just my take on the situation.
Regards, Pete.
OK OK...UNCLE! All I know is I have done multiple shim under bucket valve adjusts. I'm an engineer and not exactly stupid (though don't ask the wife!)....I have always run afoul of the measurements after making shim adjustments....I think I'm cursed, I must have pissed off the gods somehow. I can design a nuclear reactor without fault, calculate reactivity coefficients to the nth degree....somehow the shim adjustments have me by the bollocks. Next time I'm going to buy some chicken bones before attempting this......Don't tell my kids who I schooled in math....they would never let me live it down. :Facepalm:
Quote from: Motofun on December 01, 2018, 04:48:56 PM
OK OK...UNCLE! All I know is I have done multiple shim under bucket valve adjusts. I'm an engineer and not exactly stupid (though don't ask the wife!)....I have always run afoul of the measurements after making shim adjustments....I think I'm cursed, I must have pissed off the gods somehow. I can design a nuclear reactor without fault, calculate reactivity coefficients to the nth degree....somehow the shim adjustments have me by the bollocks. Next time I'm going to buy some chicken bones before attempting this......Don't tell my kids who I schooled in math....they would never let me live it down. :Facepalm:
I know this is a dumb question but are you combining feeler gauge blades to make the intermediate sizes?
I know with the feeler gauge I have sometimes needs 2 blades to get the exact gap!
Quote from: Motofun on December 01, 2018, 04:48:56 PM
I have always run afoul of the measurements after making shim adjustments....I think I'm cursed, I must have pissed off the gods somehow.
I drove myself crazy the first time with my FJ. It made no sense at all.
What I learned (the hard way) was, not to re-measure immediately after you change the shims.
You will get wrong readings every time.
Measure the clearances twice, check your numbers, then put in the correct shims and call it a day.
If you really feel the need to re-measure the clearance
after the shim change, you've got to button things up first, run the engine up to temp, let it cool overnight, then open it back up, only then re-measure.
Randy mentioned something about oil pooling in the buckets when you pull the old shims out.
You know that oil that squirts you in the eye when you roll the cam lobes? That oil.
You gotta run the engine up to temp to get the new shims fully seated before you re-measure....
...and of course, your measurements should be on a stone cold engine.
This is with the FJ's SOB engine, I wonder if something similar happens with a SUB engine?
..... although I don't see how oil would pool in the upside down bucket.
With the necessary cam removal, perhaps dry cam journals is affecting the re-measurement?
The oil pool in the shim bucket is a simple way to describe it. Or think about how the oil is a film between the bucket and shim. When hot/cold, the oil viscosity changes, like honey on a cold day. Put a shim back into a bucket with cold oil and squash it back down by turning the engine. Then think about the film when it gets quite hot and thins out allowing the shim to sit closer to the bucket.
In truth, the difference is not much. But a shim seated in cold oil may not seat properly and can be off quite a bit more. So measuring after a shim has been put back in and before a proper running/heating of the engine, will likely produce bad measurements.
And over night is not required for measuring if one is in a hurry. Cooling can be done quicker with fans and in the time of any given "Man Shed Day" shims can be adjusted. Once the engine is cool, the valves can be measured/adjusted.
I almost forgot an important item, "Measure twice, Cut once" and Kookaloo My Friends. Or is that "Measure twice, Adjust once"???
Quote from: ribbert on December 01, 2018, 06:14:36 AM
Quote from: JPaganel on November 30, 2018, 10:52:18 AM
I am put off by carburetors. They are annoying and can be finicky.
There is no doubt FI is a great improvement, even from it earliest days it offered performance enhancement and was trouble free for the life of the vehicle, but the issues you speak of caused by carbies is IMO greatly over stated. Once set up with proper filtration and supply and tuned, that should be the end of it for a very long time.
Noel
Yeah, but getting there... I have been screwing with my latest FJ project for something like two years now. Granted, this is not a concerted effort every day, I get to it time permitting, but still. Goddamn fiddly floats, constant pulling and reattaching carbs to change anything, the 16 screws to get into them that are all made of warm butter, the needle valves that leak...
How is any of that simpler than "it just works"?
And the gas spillage when the bike tips over, which caused the total loss of my first FJ. Were it fuel injected, I would have needed some plastic. As it was, I got a flaming wreck that was a goner.
On the other hand, I really don't get the part of this thread that talks about problems setting valves. I don't find it complicated at all. That BMW has same style shim over bucket valvetrain. I've done it on a bunch of other Yamahas, too. Hardest part was paying for the new shims.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 01, 2018, 06:06:39 PM
Randy mentioned something about oil pooling in the buckets when you pull the old shims out.
It has been mentioned many, many times over the years...
There are even a couple of photos in some of the threads illustrating the phenomenon.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4025.msg35236;topicseen#msg35236 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4025.msg35236;topicseen#msg35236)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=5621.msg49148;topicseen#msg49148 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=5621.msg49148;topicseen#msg49148)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8991.msg85579;topicseen#msg85579 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8991.msg85579;topicseen#msg85579)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12274.msg122739;topicseen#msg122739 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12274.msg122739;topicseen#msg122739)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15901.msg160517;topicseen#msg160517 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15901.msg160517;topicseen#msg160517)
Randy - RPM
Thank you Randy! I never would have guessed that the oil film would be that important but experience has spoken! I've had similar issues with my shim under bucket valve trains. As you know those shims are quite a bit smaller so the pressure on them to cause the oil to extrude has to much much higher...my guesstimet is about 16 times (ratio of surface area) assuming equal spring force. I going to "assume" that the hydraulic properties of the oil are still strong enough to resist....Damn! Now I'm feeling the need to redo my race bike.... :dash1:
I have at least 3 sets of feeler gauges but I still seem to get a problem finding the one gauge that accurately "just" fits. It seems I'm always interpolating between one that's too big and one that's too loose.
you might want to find a set of go no go feeler gauges