FJowners.com

General Category => General Discussion => What did you do to your FJ today? => Topic started by: Zwartie on November 26, 2018, 09:22:27 AM

Title: Clean Bunnies and FJR vs. FJ
Post by: Zwartie on November 26, 2018, 09:22:27 AM
It was a balmy 7C yesterday and not raining or snowing (for a change) so I took it as a sign from the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I should give the motorcycles an end-of-season cleaning. Our local Yamaha Dealer recommended I try SC1 "new bike in a can" cleaner/polish and I'm pretty happy with the results:

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/112_26_11_18_9_11_38.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/112_26_11_18_9_12_14.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/112_26_11_18_9_12_40.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/112_26_11_18_9_13_13.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/112_26_11_18_9_13_41.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/112_26_11_18_9_14_10.jpeg)

Zwartie
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Firehawk068 on November 26, 2018, 05:56:25 PM
MY! Those are some sweet, clean looking FJ(r)s!  :good:
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Tuned forks on November 26, 2018, 09:50:21 PM
I'm really warming up to the styling of the FJR.  Pics like this make me appreciate them.

Joe
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Millietant on November 27, 2018, 01:17:50 PM
So Zwartie - (and apologies if you've already been asked, and have answered, this before) can we have your thoughts on the pro's and con's of the FJ vs the FJR ?

My one ride on a FJR had me marvelling at the cruising comfort and smoothness (and at the time, better suspension control), but left me eager to get back to the FJ for the bendy bits of the road and the more "direct" feel I had with the FJ - it was a much more "enjoyable" bike to ride, if not as "efficient" as the FJR.

The one thing the FJR clearly brought home to me was how much more "character" it had and how much more like a "motorcycle" it felt, compared to a Honda ST 1100/Pan European which I'd done quite a few miles on, despite it being to me at least as "efficient" as the ST 1100

But I'd guess you would have a much more objective view having had more time to spend on both bikes  :yes:
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Motofun on November 27, 2018, 01:42:08 PM
Funny, I always thought the FJR lacked "character".  Don't get me wrong, it does everything quite well for a modern sport tourer (except it needed a 6th gear).  It just was a little to bland for my tastes.  I know that sounds weird and it probably is but I like a bike that demands something extra.
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Millietant on November 27, 2018, 02:02:42 PM
Quote from: Motofun on November 27, 2018, 01:42:08 PM
Funny, I always thought the FJR lacked "character".  Don't get me wrong, it does everything quite well for a modern sport tourer (except it needed a 6th gear).  It just was a little to bland for my tastes.  I know that sounds weird and it probably is but I like a bike that demands something extra.

My comment was comparing it to the ST 1100  - I agree the FJR I rode lacked "character" overall compared to the FJ (but it was still a great bike) - then again some say the FJ lacked character !!  :negative:
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Zwartie on November 28, 2018, 11:47:45 AM
Millietant,

When I first rode the FJR (Blue Bunny 2.0) I'm pretty sure I heard a voice whispering "welcome to the 21st Century". You know, fuel injection, ABS, shaft drive, etc. All the things that apparently make it lack character. Before I list all the things that make it "better" (different) than the FJ, there needs to be some disclosure regarding the two machines being compared: The FJ1200 (Blue Bunny 1.0) is what I would consider a fairly highly modified machine. Modifications include: 1314 cc Wiseco big-bore kit, 4-1 aftermarket exhaust, Uni Pod air filters, RPM front fork emulators, Blue Dot front brakes, FZR1000 rear swing-arm, wheel, and rear shock mod, Corbin Gunfighter & Lady saddle, Vario touring windscreen, and the list goes on. When I first got the FJ1200 back in 2005 I had it dyno'd at 126 hp at the rear wheel. The FJR also has its share of modifications including: Dynojet Power Commander, Racetech front springs, 2015 FJR (Gen III) rear shock, Corbin heated saddle, heated grips, Touring windscreen, and the list goes on with this bike as well. So, it's pretty fair to say that I am not comparing stock vs. stock. Here's how I believe they stack up:

- Power: Pretty much even. It feels like the FJ makes power a little earlier than the FJR which may be thanks to the big-bore kit. That being said, once the FJR comes to life (at about 5,000 RPM), it pulls like a freight train!

- Smoothness: No comparison - the FJR wins, hands down. My wife commented how there is zero vibration on the rear foot pegs which is really nice for those longer two-up rides. That being said, I rode the FJ the other day and I'm thinking it's in need of a good carb tear-down and rebuild as well as a carb synch, plus the rubber engine mounts need to be removed and "un-seized". I would love to do that over the winter (along with a host of other overdue maintenance items) and see if that makes much of a difference. The FJ just felt noticeably "rough" on the last ride.

- Starting: Choke? What choke? Again, no comparison. The FJ doesn't like to start on a cold morning if it hasn't been ridden for more than a week or two. The FJR just starts...every time!

- Rider Comfort: I'm going to call that one a tie. I think the FJR may have an edge but it's ever so slight and has more to do with the smoothness and the fact that I can raise the windshield to completely eliminate any wind buffeting and related noise whenever I want to. That being said, when I'm in the twisties, I like to lower the windshield. For me, the Corbin on the FJ is more comfortable than the one on the FJR and I think it just has to do with the contour of the seat.

- Handling: As far as that goes, they're pretty close. The FJ seating position is lower and it a bit lighter than the FJR so it just feels lighter and smaller at slow speeds. On the twisties though, I think the two bikes would be neck and neck. That being said, ABS sure is a nice feature!

- Braking: Just because of the ABS this one has to go to the FJR. Some day I might do a braking test to see which one can stop quicker from say, 50 km/h but chances are it will be the FJR simply because I can grab/stomp on the brakes and let the ABS do the work. If I ever get around to doing that test, I'll let you know the results. The FJ's blue dot brakes were a much needed upgrade so if we were comparing a stock FJ to an FJR I'm thinking there would be no comparison.

- Two-Up Riding: This one also has to go to the FJR. There is more room for the passenger - it was a fairly tight squeeze on the FJ. That being said, I bought a Corbin rear seat for our two-up ride to PA this fall and my wife was not all that impressed with it compared to the FJ seat. We even tried an air-hawk cushion on both and it was marginally better. I still have the stock rear-seat for the FJR and I'm going to send it to Seth Laam to get it done up. I also need to do something about the factory top-case on the FJR - with the backrest installed it is just too far forward and my wife has to sit upright, almost leaning forward. I don't think they considered a passenger wearing a jacket with a built-in back protector. Something to modify this winter. I think with an updated rear seat and the top case moved back a couple inches the FJR is going to be an excellent two-up bike. Another thing that gives the FJR the edge over the FJ is the rear suspension - whenever we would ride the FJ and approach a major bump, pothole, or set of train tracks, I would have to give my wife a couple taps on her left thigh and she would know to raise her butt off the seat (as would I) so the bike wouldn't bottom out. I'm sure a better / beefier rear shock on the FJ would likely resolve that. With the 2015 FJR rear shock on Blue Bunny 2.0, we never have to worry about it bottoming out.

Do I still love the FJ? Absolutely! Would I take it on another multi-day ride? If/when I do some of the much-needed maintenance, I may consider it but only if I'm riding solo. I'm still waffling with the idea of selling the FJ and just "moving on" but when I see how many are up for sale and how little they are going for I'm thinking I'll likely just hang onto it, at least for now...


Let me know if there's anything else you want to know as a comparison of the two bikes.

All the best!

Zwartie


Quote from: Millietant on November 27, 2018, 01:17:50 PM
So Zwartie - (and apologies if you've already been asked, and have answered, this before) can we have your thoughts on the pro's and con's of the FJ vs the FJR ?
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Motofun on November 28, 2018, 12:17:19 PM
Can't argue with any of your statements.  The FJR was my wife's primary ride for 10 years.  The only thing I'll add is the FJR took a little more faith to sport ride through the twisty sections.  I blame that on the weight and the stock (2004) suspension that I would have upgraded if it were mine.
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: ryanschoebel on November 28, 2018, 03:44:11 PM
Damn good read!! Thanks for being thorough!
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Tuned forks on November 28, 2018, 08:09:07 PM
Excellent write up comparison.

Joe
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Pat Conlon on November 29, 2018, 01:06:41 AM
Thanks Ben :good: Great read!
Question: With what you know about the difference, do you think a 6th gear added to the FJR would enhance your bike? Would it change things as far as the comparison?

I love this forum. This kind of information you can't find in any magazine.
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Motofun on November 29, 2018, 07:39:24 AM
How many of us have tried to shift our FJ's into 6th gear?  I've owned mine since new, going on 33 years now, and I still look for that elusive 6th gear.  The FJR has a wonderful motor, lots of torque, it needed a 6th gear just for low reving when out on the highway.  I think that Yamaha finally figured it out on the new models.
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Millietant on November 29, 2018, 09:21:45 AM
Yep, that's why I run 18:38 sprockets, it keeps the revs reasonable for highway cruising.

I also found that gearing helped on track at the Nurburgring, where on standard gearing it would run out of revs in top gear in a couple of places (after Flugplatz and the back Straight).
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Zwartie on November 29, 2018, 09:35:08 AM
Pat,

Great question, and one that I thought about addressing 0.63 milliseconds (approximately) after I hit "post". I agree with Motofun regarding the FJ - I've been searching for 6th gear for going on 25 years and still haven't found it. I even run 17/38 sprockets on the '92 FJ so it's a bit taller than stock. At this point I can't say the same about the FJR. I think the difference is that the FJR motor is so smooth at any rpm. Unless I'm "hammering" on the FJ I always shift below 4,000 rpm whereas I find on the FJR that I'm shifting at 5,000 +. Even cruising on the expressway (pronounced "interstate" in the US of A) at 130 km/h (80 mph) on the FJR I have not yearned for 6th gear like I would on the FJ. . I was a bit concerned about the lack of a 6th prior to buying the FJR as it seems that every motorcycle magazine article ever written about the 5-speed FJR bemoaned the fact that it lacked a 6th gear. I really don't see it as a problem. Would a 6th gear be an improvement? If your intent is to super-slab it across the continent and get the best fuel economy out of the machine, then probably. As far as what I would call real-world, every day riding goes, I don't see much of a benefit. That being said, maybe I'll test ride a 6-speed version some day and realize what I've been missing all these years... but I doubt it.

Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 29, 2018, 01:06:41 AM
Question: With what you know about the difference, do you think a 6th gear added to the FJR would enhance your bike? Would it change things as far as the comparison?
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on November 29, 2018, 10:07:56 PM
I'll bet the final drive ratio of the 5-speed and 6-speed FJR trans are not all that different.  It's a whole new gear train and what they typically do is just spread new ratios through all the gears so it's not like you get another taller gear above what the 5-speed had.

FZ1 is a good example.  The final ratio of its 6-speed trans is about identical to an FJ 5-speed.
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: ribbert on November 30, 2018, 07:38:11 AM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 29, 2018, 10:07:56 PM
I'll bet the final drive ratio of the 5-speed and 6-speed FJR trans are not all that different.  It's a whole new gear train and what they typically do is just spread new ratios through all the gears so it's not like you get another taller gear above what the 5-speed had.
O

You may well be right. There is only ever a bee's dick between 5th and 6th anyway, so close that 'seat of the pants' feel will rarely pick the difference.

I have never looked for a 6th gear on the FJ or wished it had one. It is what it is and I would not want it revving any lower at highway speeds, it's not a Harley! I like the FJ at 4000 rpm + for extended cruising, that is where it feels comfortable and sounds happy.

Playing the devil's advocate here, I believe most 6 speed gear boxes have the gears too close together. Any modern 1000cc plus bike does not need 6 gears, 5 is plenty, especially with the FJ's power spread.

I own one and regularly ride other big bikes with 6 speed boxes and the ratios are so close it's like riding a manually operated CVT and I find myself 'short shifting' much of the time.
Plenty of owners here have changed gearing to the equivalent of a 6th gear (assuming a 500 rpm drop at highway speed) and yet still waffle on about looking for 6th gear. I suspect it has just become an owner catch-cry rather than feeling a genuine need for one.

I have decided the trick to riding a 6 speed (for me) is to forget top gear for all but flat slab, easier said than done, otherwise you spend all day changing gears. 4th, 5th and 6th are too close to each other. At the end of a long day this becomes tiresome.
If you are cruising at 100 + mph for extended periods, the extra gear would be good, but really, how many places can you that these days and even if you live somewhere where you can, how much time do you actually spend doing it?

One of the many things I enjoy about getting back on the FJ is the distinct ratios of the gearbox. Just one more gear diminishes that way more than you would think.

But that's just me and that's my 20 cents worth ($0.14 USD) :biggrin:.

Noel
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: Millietant on November 30, 2018, 09:20:48 AM
You're right Noel, the FJ doesn't need 6 gears.

My Aprilia RSV has 6 gears and to be honest, as long as the top gear and first overall ratio's were the same, the bike would be perfectly useable with a 5 speed box. Our Fazer 1000/FZ1 also has a 6 gears and again, I'm sure I could live happily with it with only 5 gears - but, just like the FJ, the FZ1 could do with running a slightly taller ratio for 6th, than standard.

The gaps between the gears aren't overly stretched in the 5 speed boxes and simply playing with the sprockets (larger front/smaller rear) is enough for me to get satisfactory gearing.

I also "feel" (through the bars/pegs/seat) more comfortable cruising the FJ at around 4,500 rpm - not too buzzy but with enough poke for overtaking without dropping down gears - this gives an indicated speed of around 83-85 mph on my bike, which is sitting comfortably in my desired speed range for longer distance riding.
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: FJmonkey on November 30, 2018, 10:42:55 AM
I have found myself searching for the elusive 6th gear on occasion. But I have also found myself flying along the slab  in 4th gear for some time thinking I was in 5th. And around 4.5k seems to be a sweet spot, on both my 86 and 89.
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies
Post by: wainot-Phil on November 30, 2018, 03:18:08 PM
 Yamaha changed the FJR1300  5 speed Gearbox ratios in the Series 2 ,  FJR1300  Bikes from 2006 to 2013 , I have a 2008 and its  5 speed Gearbox  Ratios are  SPOT ON ,, You never go looking for 6th gear ,(Unless over 200kmh) ,, Yamaha  stretched out  every Gear a little bit in the Series 2  5 speed Gearbox,,,It is way way better in Ratio than any 5 speed I have ever used before hand and once you finally put it in 5th gear ,, at about 3400 rpm you are getting alone at about 110 kmh   and all is good ,,,, Yamaha finally got the 5 speed Ratios spot on with the series 2   and then some one at Yamaha has had a bright idea and change the Perfect Ratio 5 speed  gearbox and fitted a 6 speed Gearbox in to the latest Model Series 3   FJR1300 Bikes ,, DUMB idea  ,IMO
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies and FJR vs. FJ
Post by: Pat Conlon on November 30, 2018, 04:02:51 PM
Quote from: wainot-Phil on November 30, 2018, 03:18:08 PM
....  and then some one at Yamaha has had a bright idea and change the Perfect Ratio 5 speed  gearbox and fitted a 6 speed Gearbox in to the latest Model Series 3   FJR1300 Bikes ,, DUMB idea  ,IMO

Phil, have you had a chance to ride a 2018 FJR? (I have not)

Ben, thanks again. I would appreciate sharing your impressions after you get on a '18.
I hope you don't mind, I modified the title of your first post to add FJR vs. FJ.
There is some good stuff in this thread.
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies and FJR vs. FJ
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on November 30, 2018, 10:22:34 PM
I asked Hoffman about this the other day.  You know he researches the crap out of anything he does motorcycle-wise.

He said he intentionally got the 2013 FJR because he wanted that 5-speed over the newer 6-speed
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies and FJR vs. FJ
Post by: wainot-Phil on November 30, 2018, 11:32:34 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 30, 2018, 04:02:51 PM
Quote from: wainot-Phil on November 30, 2018, 03:18:08 PM
....  and then some one at Yamaha has had a bright idea and change the Perfect Ratio 5 speed  gearbox and fitted a 6 speed Gearbox in to the latest Model Series 3   FJR1300 Bikes ,, DUMB idea  ,IMO

Phil, have you had a chance to ride a 2018 FJR? (I have not)

No  I have not been on a 2018 either ,but I have spent dozens and dozen's of hours on the net reading up all about  the FJR1300 Models and I have also read 100's of reviews about the FJR  before buying my 2008 model,,   I have found out a few things in this time,,,,,, 1-- the standard FJR Seats are Crap , 2-- the FJR Bike's made before 2006 have a problem with getting the Rider very Hot on a warm day ,,3-- the 2001 to 2003 models also sometimes had a Valve Stem ware Problem and very rarely the 2nd Gear Problem  ,4-- lots of people that have  bought a FJR  and then turned around and sold them within a few months because of Vibration through the Bars ,,Its a lucky Dip if your FJR  has a  Vibration problem or not,,,,My one is fine  Now that I have sync the Carbs the old fashion way and also added Bar End weights ,, The FJR1300 are a nice Bike ,Bullet proof Motor and Gearbox ,Great Shaft Drive ,ABS Brakes ,Very Powerful ,Fast , Handles Good ,Adjustable Screen ,good on Fuel  etc etc,  it all work's  top class    BUT    it is not a Great Bike  IMO,,,, due Mainly to the Shit Seat that is way to short (front to Back) and is sloped towards the Tank, If you go over 2 road bumps in a row ,you might find your NUT'S floating in the Petrol Tank,,Also the Standard Bars at the Grip end,, do not point at the Rider ,,so you get along with  a kink in you wrists , if you wrap your fingers right around the Grips,,The Bars adjust but only a few mm , I have fitted a adjustment Plate under my Bars that has bought the Bars 40mm closer to me and also the Grips are now 90 degrees with my wrists ,,Much better,,,I have also fitted a ex Police Gel wrap around Front Seat which is way better but still not perfect,,I have also read on lots of forums ,, that lots of 2006 to 2018  FJR  owners with the 6 Speed Gearbox do not like them ,,6th is to high and hardly ever used ,They is also a lot of 2006 to 2018 FJR1300  Owners asking the Yamaha Dealers ,what the Hell is this Vibration ,,that's  in my ""NEW BIKE""   ,,,,,,,,, That is what I have found out via having  a 2008 FJR1300 myself  and also by spending 100's of hours on the Net researching the FJR Bikes  ,Seats ,Vibration etc ,,
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies and FJR vs. FJ
Post by: TexasDave on December 01, 2018, 01:20:54 AM
I have posted on this before but would like to expound on this FJR story a little more. Riding home from purchasing my first FJ in 2013 I stopped at the Harley dealer in Las Cruses, NM. It was time for a rest and owning a Harley I wanted to take a look around. I parked next to an older gentleman standing next to a pickup with an empty trailer. He commented on what a nice looking FJ I was riding. Not a lot of people recognize FJ's so I asked him if he had one. He replied no but he was trading one of his 2007 FJR's for a new Harley. He had purchased two 07 FJR's and had one modified with a side car and special forks and in his picture looked like he was running a car tire front. He was probably running a car tire rear also but the picture didn't show it. He had done this so his wife could ride with him as she was getting older. He said he wanted to show me the FJR he was trading and it was around back. We went around back and it was a maroon color in like knew condition. He was excited to show me all the features it had and talked about it quite some time. Realizing he liked the bike I had to ask why he was trading it for a Hardly Ableson. He replied "leg room"! This gentleman was a slender 6'2" and 92 YEARS OLD! I am a little short of 6'0 and consider leg room on the FJ to be limited so I understood completely. They brought out his Hardly and he took off around front. By the time I walked around front he already had the Hardly on the trailer and tied down. I wished him good luck with the Hardly and thought I hope I am in his shape and riding when I am 92.

Dave
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies and FJR vs. FJ
Post by: ribbert on December 01, 2018, 04:35:51 AM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 30, 2018, 10:22:34 PM
I asked Hoffman about this the other day.  You know he researches the crap out of anything he does motorcycle-wise.

He said he intentionally got the 2013 FJR because he wanted that 5-speed over the newer 6-speed

An astute rider. More is not necessarily better.

Noel
Title: Re: Clean Bunnies and FJR vs. FJ
Post by: Troyskie on December 01, 2018, 05:25:21 AM
Ok fellas, ....5th gear, 6th gear,  7th gear,  who cares?

I made Petes get to 15th gear (no not a Road Ranger).

If it was a Hardley then they didn't care about smooth, only noise.

If it was speed in in a straight line, who cares.

Every day I try and click it into 6th.

Only because I want to get to 7th before I get to work.

Once I'm in 7th gear I don't care as I'm dreaming.

After that I pretend to know what i'm talking about :sarcastic: