Hi guys I need a little of help if possible. I checked the valve clearance. I wrote down the measurements and what shim was in the bucket. I then used the manual to check what shim I would need. For example I got a 270 shim and clearance was 0.05 so the shim it need would be 260 according to the manual. This is still to tight any ideas why I think I done everything correctly and doubled checked everything. Is it ok to go lower then what the manual says and try a shim although the book says use a 260. I ordered the shims according to the book and they cost over $100. If I would of known I would of got smaller shims
You need to have 0.11-0.15 mm for intake or 0.16-0.2 for exhaust. Better to stick to the larger number if possible by shim sizes since the valves get tighter during engine exploitation.
From your numbers and the charts I deduct that you are talking about intake. So with new 260 shim your lash will be 0.15. Perfect. Why did you conclude it is too tight?
Quote from: balky1 on November 03, 2018, 10:12:22 AM
You need to have 0.11-0.15 mm for intake or 0.16-0.2 for exhaust. Better to stick to the larger number if possible by shim sizes since the valves get tighter during engine exploitation.
From your numbers and the charts I deduct that you are talking about intake. So with new 260 shim your lash will be 0.15. Perfect. Why did you conclude it is too tight?
I had to put in a 255 shim to get to 0.11 although the book said a 260 would do.
Scottie, are you measuring in fractions or metric?
The manual is metric and must be converted to imperial if using fractional feeler gauges
Quote from: RPM - Robert on November 03, 2018, 02:53:33 PM
Scottie, are you measuring in fractions or metric?
The manual is metric and must be converted to imperial if using fractional feeler gauges
i am using the top number on the feeler gauge it says .009 and bottom number says .178.
somethings wrong if your feeler gauge says .178 mm then it would be .007"
Quote from: T Legg on November 03, 2018, 03:17:53 PM
somethings wrong if your feeler gauge says .178 mm then it would be .007"
ok so I have got 2 numbers on my feeler gauges and I have been using the top number which says .007 and underneath that it says .178mm. I have been measuring using the top number thinking that was MM but I think I have been using the wrong number .
Quote from: Scottie1 on November 03, 2018, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: T Legg on November 03, 2018, 03:17:53 PM
somethings wrong if your feeler gauge says .178 mm then it would be .007"
ok so I have got 2 numbers on my feeler gauges and I have been using the top number which says .007 and underneath that it says .178mm. I have been measuring using the top number thinking that was MM but I think I have been using the wrong number .
Yep, easily done especially when both numbers are listed.
Should you be doing your own clearances if you can't tell the difference between metric and imperial measurements?
Scottie, so perhaps this will help. I learned the conversion factor from Robert when I adjusted my valves this Fall. A change of 5 numbers in the shim designation roughly equates to a change in valve clearance of .002". So for instance, on my number 1 cylinder, an exhaust valve showed an existing clearance of .006" and I wanted to change the clearance to .008". The existing shim was a 280 so I swapped to a 275 and voila, .008" clearance. It was indeed confusing dealing with a metric motorcycle and using Imperial measurements.
Joe
Quote from: oldktmdude on November 03, 2018, 04:27:52 PM
Should you be doing your own clearances if you can't tell the difference between metric and imperial measurements?
Everyones got to learn haven't they? Plus it was an easy mistake to make I'm sure i am not the only one who has made this mistake. That's why I was asking questions about it so I can learn and know how to do maintenance on my bike.
Quote from: Tuned forks on November 03, 2018, 04:40:30 PM
Scottie, so perhaps this will help. I learned the conversion factor from Robert when I adjusted my valves this Fall. A change of 5 numbers in the shim designation roughly equates to a change in valve clearance of .002". So for instance, on my number 1 cylinder, an exhaust valve showed an existing clearance of .006" and I wanted to change the clearance to .008". The existing shim was a 280 so I swapped to a 275 and voila, .008" clearance. It was indeed confusing dealing with a metric motorcycle and using Imperial measurements.
Joe
Thank you so much for explaining this to me. This is my first time doing this and I have learnt a lot today. Thank you everyone else who has offered positive feedback to help me.
Quote from: oldktmdude on November 03, 2018, 04:27:52 PM
Should you be doing your own clearances if you can't tell the difference between metric and imperial measurements?
C'mon man, no judgement here. No need to put someone down for learning, hes asking questions. I still don't know how to do valve clearances, so props to him for trying. No need to slam on someone just because they don't know something you do.
Quote from: Scottie1 on November 03, 2018, 05:48:01 PMThank you so much for explaining this to me. This is my first time doing this and I have learnt a lot today. Thank you everyone else who has offered positive feedback to help me.
Scottie,
Here is a free "units converter" for the desktop computer; it converts from almost anything to almost anything, in measurements. I use it a lot. It's fast, and it's free.
https://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/ (https://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/)
If you have an Android gadget, GooglePlay has a free app for you, with no snoopy permissions, just the camera (as needed only). It has the "unit converter" option also, along with other good stuff like a timer, magnifying glass, compass, et c. You can zoom in with the magnifier. Check out "Army Knife for Android" by Digital & Dreams. GooglePlay has a Search option, to find it. There may be another similar version for Apple gadgets.
FWIW, nobody knows everything, when they walk in the door. This stuff takes time. Keep asking questions. Note that in the picture of feeler gauges, above, it shows two markings on each blade, and one of those markings is shown in mm. Anybody claiming they have never read the wrong one probably has a faulty memory.
when you get old the problem is you can't see what the feeler gauge says period.
Quote from: T Legg on November 03, 2018, 10:08:14 PM
when you get old the problem is you can't see what the feeler gauge says period.
....or you transpose the numbers when writing them down.
.....or you forget how to read the tables (despite doing it correctly several times thru the years)
.....or when you do remember how to read the table, you read the intake valve table while working on the exhaust valves.
Scottie, I am glad you posted. These guys here have saved my bacon many times.
My motto: When in doubt, ask. If something does not seem right, ask.
Thanks Joe for that little nugget. :good2:
I have a question. Isn't it time you Stateside guys went fully metric and avoid all this silly conversion stuff? Runs for cover. :shok: :bomb:
Krusty, we were supposed to go metric back in the seventies. I was being taught metric at school and was looking forward to the conversion because of it's base ten. Pat probably remembers the speed limit signs that had mph and kph on them.
Anytime Pat. Glad to help since Robert was so helpful to me.
Travis, I have to take my nearsighted eyeglasses off to read or work up close.
Scottie, here's something else to consider. I rented the valve lash kit from RPM. It has most of the shims you need plus comes with the tools you need too. I "think" it's only available to people that donate to the site? Still, the value seems good to me. Robert or Pat will correct me if I'm wrong about the donation.
Joe
Joe, you are correct.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8968.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8968.0)
Membership has its privileges.
Yes Krusty, you are spot on.
The instructions alone were worth the $40 to me. Youtube was a help too.
Joe
It's well worth learning to do your own valves. In most places you can't find anybody willing to work on an old bike and if they do i always wonder if they got it right(unless you have some one who is an established professional like R.P.M.).When i first got my bike i thought it ran great but over time after adjusting my valves cleaning and re-jetting and readjusting my carburetors now my bike feels incredible especially at Oakdale's elevations.
Quote from: krusty on November 03, 2018, 10:47:30 PM
I have a question. Isn't it time you Stateside guys went fully metric and avoid all this silly conversion stuff? Runs for cover. :shok: :bomb:
From previous discussion here, I don't think anyone would be sad to see the end of imperial measurement. Even the country that introduced it (UK) has abandoned it in favour of the Metric system.
(https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/492445iCD73057B810097FD?v=1.0)
Anyone who thinks Imperial is just fine has never worked in metric. I started work exclusively with the former and finished almost entirely with the latter, so I have worked with both. If you can count to 10, you have the metric system nailed.
I can't see it happening though.
Noel
Yes one of the only countries still on the imperial system. The only country to walk on the moon. Must work pretty good.
Was going to install a gas pump on the engine block of my 1983 AMERICAN Chevrolet van many years ago. None of my tools would fit. Called up my good friend John who knows all things automotive to question him. He started to laugh. I asked him what was so funny. He informed me the chassis was imperial and the engine metric. I did not think it so funny. I don't mind one or the other but mixing them? Got out my motorcycle tools and finished the job.
Yes the metric system is a lot easier but here in the USA if we have to count higher than 10 we have to take off our boots.
Dave
Quote from: ryanschoebel on November 03, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: oldktmdude on November 03, 2018, 04:27:52 PM
Should you be doing your own clearances if you can't tell the difference between metric and imperial measurements?
C'mon man, no judgement here. No need to put someone down for learning, hes asking questions. I still don't know how to do valve clearances, so props to him for trying. No need to slam on someone just because they don't know something you do.
You're both right!
Ryan, I think you are reading Pete's comments as criticism, rather than concern. Yes, this is a place to learn, extend yourself and have a go but sometimes people's own words suggest they're taking on jobs too far beyond their current skills.
It is very easy to get swept up by the encouragement, enthusiasm, offers of help and the safety net of the forum but at the end of the day, it's still just you with a handful of tools, by yourself and little to no idea of what you're doing. It is prudent to show some caution with what you tackle.
There are plenty of examples here of owners turning simple tasks into a horror stories, sometimes with many chapters.
With the member's best interest in mind Pete has good reason to voice his concern about the poster's ability to carry out that task after the comments he made, there is plenty of opportunity for stuff ups, even on that job.
I know Pete, there is not a malicious bone in him (unless you forget to put the beer in the fridge), his posts are always positive and helpful and he is the salt of the earth when it comes to helping owners with their bikes in the flesh, expecting neither fanfare nor public praise. It was not a put-down as your response implies.
Can I say, after a lifetime of working with both imperial and metric systems, that trying to work with a mish mash of both on the one job, converting as you go, is a recipe for disaster. The specs are metric, the shims are metric, the manual is metric - spend a few bucks and buy a set of metric feelers and stop converting back to inches!
Noel
Quote from: TexasDave on November 04, 2018, 04:49:49 AM
.... None of my tools would fit......
Dave
Australia had mostly British cars until the 60's, they were "Whitworth," this required every mechanic to have yet another full set of tools besides AF and Metric.
Anyone remember these?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/z/xWgAAOSwPxVbZPTH/$_20.JPG)
Tiny sets of ignition spanners for distributors.
Noel
Quote from: T Legg on November 03, 2018, 11:20:05 PM
It's well worth learning to do your own valves. In most places you can't find anybody willing to work on an old bike
The only thing "old" about our bikes, and throws the odd mechanic, is the carby's.
Noel
Many, if not most, nuts and bolts on American cars are now metric. BUT, just to be ornery, they standardized on 13 and 15 mm not 12 and 14 like everyone else! OH, and just for the record, every decent feeler gauge I have has both metric and Imperial dimensions stamped on them.....
Dave, I remember the bad old days when our domestic vehicles were half Imperial and half metric. If the part was designed before the attempted metric conversion it was Imperial, if it was designed after then metric. Mechanics would have to bring both types of sockets and wrenches to work on these vehicles. I still own a few as I like the old stuff. It's actually nice to know that modern vehicles and our FJ's need only one type of tools, metric.
Noel, my Dad owned a number of British bikes and cars way back when. The last was a '66 BSA. We still have his set of Whitworth tools. That map you posted is really eye opening! :shok:
Joe
Hey, if you want weird, don't forget the SAE (British) tooling. We got a pair of airliners in for work once (Vickers Viscounts), and almost NONE of our tooling would fit the SAE hardware. We had to buy every tool needed for those birds. Lotsa tool companies stopped talking to us.
:biggrin:
With SAE, you don't measure from flat to flat, across a nut or bolt with a caliper, as in Metric or Imperial. For SAE, you measured the width of one face only with a ruler, from point to point.
Quote from: ribbert on November 04, 2018, 07:12:49 AM
Quote from: T Legg on November 03, 2018, 11:20:05 PM
It's well worth learning to do your own valves. In most places you can't find anybody willing to work on an old bike
The only thing "old" about our bikes, and throws the odd mechanic, is the carby's.
Noel
unfortunately in my experience in our area the difficulty in finding a shop to work on a 34 year old bike isn't so much lack of knowledge but lack of availability of factory parts and a strong desire to sell me something brand new.when I can find factory parts for my bike it seems like they are cheaper than factory parts for the new bikes.I agree that are bikes are amazingly current. when I'm out riding people are always amazed at how old my bike is.
Quote from: RPM - Robert on November 03, 2018, 02:53:33 PM
Scottie, are you measuring in fractions or metric?
The manual is metric and must be converted to imperial if using fractional feeler gauges
Finally got the shims done after ordering 10 shims from RPM I find out I only needed one. Lesson learnt for sure. The adjustment took me 30 mins once I knew what I was done and reading the feelers gauge and book correctly.
Congratulations.
Joe
Quote from: Scottie1 on November 04, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on November 03, 2018, 02:53:33 PM
Scottie, are you measuring in fractions or metric?
The manual is metric and must be converted to imperial if using fractional feeler gauges
Finally got the shims done after ordering 10 shims from RPM I find out I only needed one. Lesson learnt for sure. The adjustment took me 30 mins once I knew what I was done and reading the feelers gauge and book correctly.
Just wandering if my first post was correct then? :biggrin:
Quote
Anyone who thinks Imperial is just fine has never worked in metric. I started work exclusively with the former and finished almost entirely with the latter, so I have worked with both. If you can count to 10, you have the metric system nailed.
Metric is so much easier, but I remember in the mid 70's when it first came in Mum sent me to the shop to get a Pound of Tomatoes but they had recently upgraded the scales to metric, stood there like the village idiot in total confusion just staring at the scales wondering what to do, until finally someone asked if I needed help.
Quote from: ribbert on November 04, 2018, 06:56:14 AM
Quote from: ryanschoebel on November 03, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: oldktmdude on November 03, 2018, 04:27:52 PM
Should you be doing your own clearances if you can't tell the difference between metric and imperial measurements?
C'mon man, no judgement here. No need to put someone down for learning, hes asking questions. I still don't know how to do valve clearances, so props to him for trying. No need to slam on someone just because they don't know something you do.
You're both right!
Ryan, I think you are reading Pete's comments as criticism, rather than concern. Yes, this is a place to learn, extend yourself and have a go but sometimes people's own words suggest they're taking on jobs too far beyond their current skills.
It is very easy to get swept up by the encouragement, enthusiasm, offers of help and the safety net of the forum but at the end of the day, it's still just you with a handful of tools, by yourself and little to no idea of what you're doing. It is prudent to show some caution with what you tackle.
There are plenty of examples here of owners turning simple tasks into a horror stories, sometimes with many chapters.
With the member's best interest in mind Pete has good reason to voice his concern about the poster's ability to carry out that task after the comments he made, there is plenty of opportunity for stuff ups, even on that job.
I know Pete, there is not a malicious bone in him (unless you forget to put the beer in the fridge), his posts are always positive and helpful and he is the salt of the earth when it comes to helping owners with their bikes in the flesh, expecting neither fanfare nor public praise. It was not a put-down as your response implies.
Can I say, after a lifetime of working with both imperial and metric systems, that trying to work with a mish mash of both on the one job, converting as you go, is a recipe for disaster. The specs are metric, the shims are metric, the manual is metric - spend a few bucks and buy a set of metric feelers and stop converting back to inches!
Noel
Thank you Noel for expressing my point in a much better way than I did. My intention was not to put you down Scottie, but to make the point that some people should not take on jobs that they are not suited to do. My congrats to you for getting the job done and no doubt it will be a lot easier next time.
Regards, Pete. :good2:
Dont know about the rest of you but I am soooo happy I know how many gills in a pint or how many poles in a peck or even sheets in a ream... Awesome stuff I learned as a kid for no mucking REASON...
Quote from: chiz on November 04, 2018, 03:35:27 PM
Dont know about the rest of you but I am soooo happy I know how many gills in a pint or how many poles in a peck or even sheets in a ream... Awesome stuff I learned as a kid for no mucking REASON...
And a perch wasn't necessarily a fish.
And a faggot was a bunch of herbs (not Herbs) in cooking. Don't miss that one.