Hi everyone,
I am going to revoke my enrollment in the 2nd gear club. The guys at RPM put together a list of everything they recommend changing based experience. It seems pretty complete to me. I have to say it is refreshing to get the kind of service and responsiveness that they provide.
I wish they took care of dirt bikes too.
My next hurdle is the required knowledge to pull this off, I have not worked on a bike where the cases split horizontally before.
Looking at the parts I got I am guessing that I remove the clutch, oil pan and drive sprocket. I am not sure this will allow me the access to remove the output shaft of the transmission, shift drum and shift fork shaft. I was thinking that I need to split the cases while leaving the top end in place. Can't discern whether or not this step needs to be done from the exploded view parts drawings.
I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who has done this kind of job on the FJ before. I am pretty handy and can usually get by on experience but I would feel better hearing from people who have done it before I jump in.
Thank you in advance.
Jeff
Ride on!
We have some neat stuff in our Files.
Here's a 2nd gear write up from Terry: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=666.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=666.0)
Not only do I recommend changing all 3 shift forks, but spending the extra $$ for a back cut gear cluster from RPM is the way to go.
Do it once, do it right and be done with it.
Cheers
Pat
While I'm spending your money, if you like snick-snick shifting, while you're in there, install the RPM Roller Shift Detent kit.
(http://rpmracingca.com/prodimages/large/RPMRollerShiftkit-2.jpg)
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMRollerShiftkit&cat=39 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMRollerShiftkit&cat=39)
$68 well worth it.
Jeff,
Right or wrong here's how I did 2nd gear on my 1100 back in 2005, which was tens of thousands of miles ago and zero issues.
Pulled the motor and split the case, no need to remove the cylinder but yes clutch basket has to be removed. Took my transmission assemblies to Wheels Unlimited in Rochester MN and they did the undercutting. Installed the transmission assy. and replaced the shift forks with new ones and also replaced all the seals and gaskets. That's it. Like I said right or wrong it worked for me. How many miles on your bike? Might want to think about the starter chain and cam chain etc...
Use a shop manual and have your gears undercut by a local shop like http://www.billbune.com/ (http://www.billbune.com/) in Anoka to save time and shipping. Speaking of time, I have a complete transmission (which needs undercutting) you could send in and have the work done while you take your engine apart. Or if your gears are damaged or worn beyond cutting this set might be an option. I've had work done by Bill and was very satisfied.
Or buy my son's 1986 FJ1200 with no 2nd gear issue, use the motor and part out the rest.
Good luck!
John
Quote from: Dads_FJ on September 08, 2018, 01:52:02 PM
Jeff,
...How many miles on your bike? Might want to think about the starter chain and cam chain etc...
John
Those two chains cannot be replaced without disassembling the top end as well and removing the crankshaft.
Jeff, do not over think it. As already mentioned, you are just dropping the bottom half of the case and replacing the transmission and related parts. No need to worry about the top end at all.
We are here to help if needed.
Randy - RPM
Hi All,
Late on the reply cause I was out riding the dirt bike yesterday. Thank you for the well thought out replies.
Pat.. The reference to that write up is exactly what I needed, it confirms what I was thinking. Randy and Robert set me up with everything I need to go in just once, tranny shaft complete, all shift forks, oil pickup and gaskets/o-rings.
They even overnighted replacement gaskets to fix some shipping damage in about a 2 hour turn around from the e-mail I sent. One of those hours was me.
The parts were expensive but cheaper than my time. I have already installed the shift detent thingy and agree that the difference in shifting needs to be experienced and then you wonder why you waited.
John.. I have about 46-47K on the clock right now and am going to try keep this as simple as I can. I wouldn't have known who to take the transmission parts to for repair, my brother has an FZ1 with a 2nd gear issue that we may address and the references could prove helpful. Bill Bune in Anoka has done some crank work for me on a 79 RM125 that I am rebuilding. They are good people to work with. As far as the 86 goes, I have 4 motorcycles of my own in the garage of my own and 2 more for the kids, I need to tap out on that one.
Randy.. Again thank you for the quick response. When I decide to do the top I will be calling. I read somewhere about you guys re-pianting someones engine parts. My cylinder assembly looks a lot rougher on the bench with the pipes off than it did on the bike. I am not going to half ass it right now but will try cleaning it up some. I could use some advice on what kind of sealant to use when I put the cases back together.
I am anxious to complete this job and have my FJ back, I am sure I messed it up hot rodding right after I went to the pods and Dyno-jet kit. Just had to hear the intake howl.
Thanks again for the help.
Jeff
Ride on!
Quote from: Motoguy on September 09, 2018, 08:36:40 AM
... I could use some advice on what kind of sealant to use when I put the cases back together.
Jeff
I use Yamabond for engine cases. https://www.motosport.com/product/?adpos=1o1&cc=us&creative=281191847691&device=c&gclid=Cj0KCQjwidPcBRCGARIsALM--eMf3jysUVBATprZVm4xBYTnCY1cocDf-66Z22HQVhBqGC7E1ifd334aAlQ4EALw_wcB&key=Yamalube-Yamabond-4&matchtype=&mrkgadid=3301755653&mrkgcl=500&network=g&product_id=YML000C-X001-Y001&pssource=true&rkg_id=0&segment=badger (https://www.motosport.com/product/?adpos=1o1&cc=us&creative=281191847691&device=c&gclid=Cj0KCQjwidPcBRCGARIsALM--eMf3jysUVBATprZVm4xBYTnCY1cocDf-66Z22HQVhBqGC7E1ifd334aAlQ4EALw_wcB&key=Yamalube-Yamabond-4&matchtype=&mrkgadid=3301755653&mrkgcl=500&network=g&product_id=YML000C-X001-Y001&pssource=true&rkg_id=0&segment=badger)
Were you riding in Thielman (Zumbro Bottoms)?
EDIT: FIFY so not so much to read to understand the answer to the question. Randy - RPM
Hi John,
I have used Yamabond #4 I think it was before, grey if I remember right. I might get to the putting back together part today and don't have any on hand.
I was at Theilman yesterday, somehow ended up on a trail that wasn't open because of the rain in the area. Right past wellhouse and then a left on to the trail, in retrospect I think I was going the wrong way. I wasn't sure if I was doing the right thing but there was other tracks. I went through some water on the trail that was up to my seat, the wake went up to my shoulders and goggles. I dried off by riding up to the cell phone lot. I am going to wash my bike using some kind of pretty soap from my wifes collection as a reward for staying running through some of the water I went through. Seriously if it died in one of those mudholes I would be tearing it down right now and not working on the FJ. Love the Theilman trail ride. Camped for the first time there and it was great until my neighbors broke out the bourbon and thought they could sing. Still laughing about that.
Jeff
Quote from: Motoguy on September 09, 2018, 08:36:40 AM
I could use some advice on what kind of sealant to use when I put the cases back together.
I am anxious to complete this job and have my FJ back, I am sure I messed it up hot rodding right after I went to the pods and Dyno-jet kit. Just had to hear the intake howl.
Thanks again for the help.
Jeff
Ride on!
I use Permatex Ultra Black silicone which is available at all national auto parts chains.
https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-black-maximum-oil-resistance-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-4/ (https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-black-maximum-oil-resistance-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-4/)
Randy - RPM
So Here are some pictures of the heart of the beast.
The lower shaft which is more silver is the transmission output shaft that I got as an assembly from RPM. I took out the old one and dropped in the new one. Couldn't get much easier for my part.
The gears are shown in neutral so when I put on the lower case I should just need the shift drum in neutral with all the forks engaged as I put it on.
Next I need to remove the rest of the old sealant and clean up my bolts. I have them all pushed into cardboard in order so that assembly should go smooth.
I am a bit concerned that the chain to the generator seems kind of loose, I can move it back and forth about 5/8" total front to back. I am not planning on addressing it right now but ...
I stripped out one of the screws to the bracket holding the shift drum in place and had to rectify that today.
Hoping to start assembly on Tuesday.
Thanks to Terry Snyder for documenting his 2nd gear project, I owe you a cold one.
This has gone pretty smoothly so far and assembly is the tougher part but I am encouraged and excited to have it in one piece again soon.
A couple of things.
Make sure the forks are installed correctly, you can get the centre on installed backwards.
Make sure the 1st gear on the shaft I sent is installed correctly, it to can easily be installed backwards.
I put the transmission in the bottom half of the case. That way you can index the dowels on the bearings into the holes in the bottom case. This will also allow you to engage the shift forks and ensure it shifts properly before installing.
Pull the crank seals now. The oe seals had a flange to prevent them from falling out while doing down the assembly line. They are easy to get out now, much more difficult when the halves are back together.
When installing the bolts, put some clean motor oil on the threads and under the head so they torque smoothly.
Randy - RPM
I have completed reassembly of my motorcycle and couldn't be happier.
I took Randy's advice and put the transmission into the lower case and was able to verify that it shifted through all the gears.
Then I had to try turning it upside down above a folded towel on my workbench to see if the gears would stay in place for reassembly.
Not sure if I am lucky or good but with the tranny in gear they seemed to stay put quite soundly.
I coated the top case with Yamabond #4 and put it back together.
A side note my motor did not have a bolt #24, also the bolt #s are cast into the cases.
Only rode it a little bit so far because of travel for work but I wanted to say thank you to everyone who chimed in and helped me get this job completed.
Ride On!
Jeff
Kudos Jeff! You did it!
The work you've just completed puts you in a special category of FJ owners.
Enjoy that bike!
Ride Well.
Hi Jeff thanks for sharing this tread has given me lots of god information and helped a lot on mine engine work.