i bought an 84 fj 1100 2 years ago.after getting it running again the first time i really got on it i thought the rear tire broke loose (spinning). After a while i realized the clutch must be slipping but i've never had a clutch slip like this.at about 7000 rpm it will slip and then reengage fully in a microsecond.if i really get on it it may slip two or three times between 7000 -9500 rpms.i first changed to yama lube then even though all the clutch fiber discs were in spec i replaced the whole pack.It still slipped. the metal discs were all flat and showed very little wear. i installed a second clutch spring (along with the original spring still slipped.Finnally i removed the wire retainer and the thin fiber disc and replaced it with a fat one but it still slips. the only suggestion i didn't try was ruffing up the surface of the metal plates ,but already i have to some times rock the bike back and forth after pulling the clutch in to get the clutch to fully release so i can roll the bike.i haven't had the engine apart i assume it still an 1100 it does have modifications mikuni flatslide carbs 4 into one exhaust individual air cleaners and also lindemann engineering suspension modifications to the rear suspension and at the minimum the front shocks have the antidive unit removed.it has incredible power between 6500 and 9500 rpm although i imagine all well running fj's do.I dont know what people with 1300+ cc bikes do to solve this problem.i would love any suggestions of what i can do.I ride often with my son who has kawasaki zzr1200 and i have to use my upper rpms to be competetive it sucks when the clutch slips even for the microsecond.
i replaced the whole pack.
the metal discs were all flat and showed very little wear.
i installed a second clutch spring (along with the original spring still slipped.
i removed the wire retainer and the thin fiber disc and replaced it with a fat one
With the changes listed above that you have done, there should be absolutely zero clutch slippage. Your problems are elsewhere. My guess would be.
Slave Cylinder, and/or
Clutch Master Cylinder
When you bleed the clutch, the engagement point should be in the middle of the lever travel. If air is minutely allowed into the system, over the span of a few days or a few weeks, the engagement point with the lever will slowly creep further and further out until the clutch is slipping so bad that you can not get the clutch to not slip under a load.
The solution is to rebuild the clutch slave cylinder and/or the clutch master cylinder. Worse case is replace the slave cylinder and the master cylinder.
My 2 cents.
Fred
What gears is it slipping in? Usually FJ's will only slip in 4th and 5th gears, under medium to hard acceleration. If it is in the lower gears it could
be your gearbox has gear engagement problems. Second gear (pre '88 models) is a common offender in this regard. When it "jumps" out of gear
it feels very much like a slipping clutch. If you have doubled the diaphragm spring I doubt that your clutch is slipping (unless you have a major defect with it)
I run a doubled spring on a 1219cc Wiseco engine, 136 hp and 90 ftlbs at the rear wheel and have never had the clutch slip. I have a second gear issue when I get on the throttle hard but never a clutch slip.
More info might help us help you.
Regards, Pete.
it is usually in fourth or fifth it may in third i'll have to take a ride tomarrow and see about third.it hasnt in first or second it will spin the rear tire and launches strongly at high rpms from a dead start as long as you release the clutch correctly and has no slipping it slips if you roll on hard at about 45 mph when it hits about 7000 rpm
under hard acceleration. and it will catch immediately with a jerk of acceleration then accelerate normally.when you really hit it hard it may slip two or three times but always for a small fraction of a second you can accelerate hard from 100 + and up and it nevers slips again . it doesnt feel like it is slipping out of gear. it has never popped out of gear completely although if i ever miss a shift it is from first to second.do these symptoms sound like a slipping gear .its pretty much been the same for the two years ive ridden it about 7000 to 8000 miles so it isnt getting progressively worse thank you guys for your experience
Here are some parts that may help.
Clutch slave rebuild kit.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3AS%2FK&cat=39 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3AS%2FK&cat=39)
FJ1100 clutch master rebuild kit.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A1100CLTCHMCKIT (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A1100CLTCHMCKIT)
Clutch Reservoir Diaphragm, According to my reference, this will fit your 1100
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AClutchResDiaphragm (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AClutchResDiaphragm)
New Slave Cylinder
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3A5EA-16381-00%3A36y-16381-00 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3A5EA-16381-00%3A36y-16381-00)
Fred
thanks i already rebuilt the master cylinder when it sprang a leak all over my fairing but i will try the slave cylinder rebuild hopefully it will help or at least eliminate that possibility.if the master cylinder already leaked the slave cylinder probably isnt any newer
Way back when.....I upped the ante on my '85 FJ. Stage III carbs, pod filters and new exhaust. For my troubles I got the slipping clutch problem also at about 7000 rpm. A doubled up diaphragm spring solved my issue but the clutch pull was manly...eventually put a FJR clutch on it and it is a little weird but tolerable.
Quote from: T Legg on July 30, 2018, 04:07:05 AM
thanks i already rebuilt the master cylinder when it sprang a leak all over my fairing but i will try the slave cylinder rebuild hopefully it will help or at least eliminate that possibility.if the master cylinder already leaked the slave cylinder probably isnt any newer
After that slave rebuild, be very thorough in bleeding the system. Its very difficult to get the air out. A lot of people have had good luck with a speed bleeder valve. I had luck by bleeding it directly from the slave itself, compressing the cylinder by hand. Not easy, but effective.
Did you soak your new fiber plates before install? Dry fiber plates will slip.
It takes time for the oil to impregnate the dry fiber plates, that's why we presoak them.
On my 1380cc (~140hp /100 ft.lbs.) I converted over to the Barnett coil spring setup.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/49_09_04_10_12_47_15.jpeg)
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3ABarnettPP&cat=39 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3ABarnettPP&cat=39)
Instead of the stock 75lb. gold springs that came with the Barnett kit, I'm using the stiffer 82lb greenies.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3ASpringHD&cat=39 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3ASpringHD&cat=39)
Absolutely no slip in the kookaloo zone.
Hey Pat,
Are you using Barnett fibers or Yamaha fibers? I've heard of people having problems with the Barnett fibers.
Just curious.
Hey David, I'm using the oem Yamaha fibers. (7 wide, 1 narrow)
Several years ago I did try the Barnett fibers (popular with drag bikes) but I did not like their abrupt engagement.
Also, if going to the coil spring conversion and using the green springs , I suggest the smaller piston (15mm) FJR clutch m/c.
Hey T Legg, I just thought of something... Several years ago I had the same thing happening to my bike.
In the upper rpm zones I felt what I thought was a momentary clutch slip. A very brief slip just as you described as a "micro second". Turns out it wasn't a clutch slip at all.
After bench testing the coils, wires, plugs, plug caps, coil relay*** and the 2 ignition pick up coils, what I finally traced down was an intermittent 12v power interrupt to the ignition box. Maddening as hell. :mad:
The circuit that supplies the 12v power to the ignition box runs from the fuse box thru the run/stop switch on the handlebar, then down to the ignition box. The run/stop switch was the culprit.
I finally figured this out by running a temporary jumper wire from the battery (+) directly to the 12v input wire on the ignition box...Went for a ride....Low and behold the problem went away. Smooth power all the way up to 10k.
Then I ran the jumper wire from the fuse box to the ignition box....same result, all is good.
So the interruption problem resides between the fuse box and the ignition box. I unplugged and cleaned all the harness connectors, then finally the run/stop switch.
All is good since then.
Something to think about. I hate intermittent electrical problems.
Cheers. Pat
p.s. go ahead and rebuild your slave to rule that out.
*** If you don't have a coil relay on your bike, with your mods, a coil relay is suggested.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1755.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1755.0)
thats interesting my kill switch hasnt worked since i got the bike it runs in either position.ill check it out. thanks
i am using new yamaha fiber plates the extra thick plate i used was from my old clutch set but they were all in spec when i replaced them
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 06:37:45 PM
I hate intermittent electrical problems.
Same here Pat, especially in 240v (110 for you) Earth Leakage faults tripping the circuit breaker. 30mA fault is hard to find.
I myself like to see some black charring, that way I know where the fault is :bomb:
Yeppers, finding leakage on GFI problems are a bitch. Might as well run a new circuit and be done with it. :dash2:
I work in the commercial/industrial area and before RCD's up to 40 lights could be on a circuit, then they upgrade to RCD's to be compliant then the problem starts. A small leakage on each fitting adds up to circuit tripping and then you have LED lights that on start up the harmonics trip the RCD.
Hours finding faults
:Facepalm:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 06:37:45 PM
......I hate intermittent electrical problems.
Cheers. Pat
Just be thankful it's not a canbus system.
Noel
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 03:43:57 PM
Also, if going to the coil spring conversion and using the green springs , I suggest the smaller piston (15mm) FJR clutch m/c.
Pat, doesn't using the smaller m/c to lighten the pull increase the engagement travel? (start sooner finish later)
Noel
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 12:51:26 PM
Did you soak your new fiber plates before install? Dry fiber plates will slip.
Has anyone experienced first hand the effect of not soaking them?
Noel
Quote from: T Legg on July 30, 2018, 01:41:22 AM
.....but i've never had a clutch slip like this.at about 7000 rpm it will slip and then reengage fully in a microsecond.if i really get on it it may slip two or three times between 7000 -9500 rpms
What you describe could be the chain jumping over the sprocket when it's making the most power. I have ridden bikes that have done that and it feels as you describe, just a thought and an easy one to check.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on July 31, 2018, 08:08:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 03:43:57 PM
Also, if going to the coil spring conversion and using the green springs , I suggest the smaller piston (15mm) FJR clutch m/c.
Pat, doesn't using the smaller m/c to lighten the pull increase the engagement travel? (start sooner finish later)
Noel
Yep, smaller piston = lighter pull with longer travel. The clutch engagement point of the FJR m/c feels perfect to me.
I got a chance to take out my 84 FJ today after adjusting the chain and bleeding the clutch at the slave cylinder(i didnt see any bubbles although it seems to me that if the clutch had air in the lines or a bad slave or master cylinder that it would apply less pressure to oppose the clutch spring and make the clutch more difficult to disengage rather than causing it to slip i ordering a rebuild kit anyway).The "event "that feels like a slipping clutch occurred in second third and fourth,most often in second and third if i accelerate all the way up to 9500 rpm in third about 110 or 115 on the speedometer then shift to fourth i can run it all the way up to 135 on the speedometer about 9500 rpm without it slipping and shift to fifth with no slipping .watched the tachometer and when it slips the tachometer needle rises very slightly but only two or three hundred rpm . if it was an intermittent electrical short would the tach needle drop during the moment of no power?my son says when it slips he often sees a small puff of smoke but it doesnt backfire like when you shut off the key to a running motor and the turn it back on. i hope maybe somebody recognizes these symptoms i'm going to take apart and fix my kill switch next if its part of the problem or not it should be fixed. by the way i notice that if i match my rpms in fifth gear using a chart that takes tire size gearing and rpm in to account my actual speed at a 135 speedometer is about 119 mph and i think that is correct do all fj speedometers have that much of an error?
This is sounding more and more like a gear engagement problem. From what you have told us, this typical of how 2nd gear behaves when there is an engagement problem, in your case it may have graduated to 3rd and forth gears as well. Clutch slip is way more evident in 4th and 5th gears. You are correct in what you are saying about air in the clutch system, there is no logical way for air to make the clutch slip. I posed this question to the forum recently, without any creditable evidence to the contrary.
Regards, Pete.
.....or....The puff of smoke is the flash off of unburied fuel from a microsecond of ignition interrupt.
Try the jumper. Ride it. See what happens. You already suspect that the circuit is dodgy.
Sorry I don't have access to my bike or shop manuals, so I can't tell you the color wire the 12v input wire.
If you download a free Owners Handbook for your '84 (see my signature line) there is a color coded wiring diagram in the back of the book.
Don't cut the oem wire. No need. Just carefully skin back the insulation and use an alligator clip on your jumper.
You are correct on air in the clutch hydraulics not being the cause of a clutch slip....
Cheers. Pat
that doesn't sound like a good thing.I geuss i'll have to start studying up on transmission problems.if that is happening is it likely to end in a catastrophic failure or just get worse until i fix it? i just saw the next post before i finished my reply i will definitely check out the ignition problem before i start tearing apart the engine.i had that thought also with the puff of smoke but i expected the electrical interruption to cause the tach needle to drop without power maybe it happens to quickly to see thanks for your ideas everybody
after reading some of the slipping gear storys it all sounds very familiar.i am still going to fix the ignition switch first but it looks like its time to upgrade the transmission and fix whatever else I find while i'm in there. thanks to all of you guys for pointing me in the right direction.
Quote from: T Legg on August 01, 2018, 02:46:48 AM
after reading some of the slipping gear storys it all sounds very familiar.i am still going to fix the ignition switch first but it looks like its time to upgrade the transmission and fix whatever else I find while i'm in there. thanks to all of you guys for pointing me in the right direction.
I think that is a good plan of attack. Make sure your ignition is not causing your problem, easier than a trans overhaul. My doubting of an electrical fault stems from it not occurring in every gear. Hope it turns out to be something easy.
Best of luck. Regards, Pete.
Quote from: T Legg on July 31, 2018, 09:36:57 PM
....the tachometer needle rises very slightly but only two or three hundred rpm . if it was an intermittent electrical short would the tach needle drop during the moment of no power?
i notice that if i match my rpms in fifth gear using a chart that takes tire size gearing and rpm in to account my actual speed at a 135 speedometer is about 119 mph and i think that is correct do all fj speedometers have that much of an error?
If it is an electrical fault, the rise in the tacho is likely to be needle bounce from the brief cut in power, not a momentry actual rise in revs.
FJ speedos are not out that much. I don't think a chart factoring in all that info is going to be very accurate, stick a smart phone or GPS in your pocket next time, I think you'll find the indicated and actual are much closer.
Noel
I have the same problem, my clutch was slipping bad. Hard to find neutral hard shifts
When riding two up a hill any thought of rolling into the throttle
Would cause slipping. Felt like an automatic with a high stall converter. Any time I
Accelerated with any amount of throttle the engine would just rev waiting for the clutch to catch up and go.
When in gear with the clutch pulled in the bike would creep forward.
One morning after warming up the bike the clutch refused to work at all.
I ordered all new Yamaha fibers and steels and spring an 1989 master cylinder and from RPM
A new slave. So everything that when back in was brand new
Fallowed what everyone else has done removed the wire and the two cushion springs
Replaced with 7 wide and 1 narrow fibers that had been soaking for a few days in new clean oil.
Put everything back together all seemed fine, supper smooth shifts no problem finding neutral
Even when hot.
A few weeks later I started having to rock the bike in first gear with the clutch engaged to disengage the transmission . Then it would be fine for the rest of the day. But would happen again the next day. Next it started slipping again under heavy load and not being quite as smooth to shift.
I'm planning on taking the clutch apart to see if everything looks ok.
I'm wondering if putting back the 2 dampening springs and a narrow fiber would help the lock
up problem when the bike sits over night. I'm also thinking of putting the worn spring back in
along with the new one and see if it has more holding power but not as hard on my left hand.
Well i checked the kill switch and the wires to it were cut and it was previously bypassed(the switch looked clean and shiny and had strong snap to it but no continuity).also with further riding i realize it is only second and third that do it .I don't know what i was thinking by the time I hit 7000 rpm in fourth it is already at 100 mph and the acceleration is much less .It is definitely occuring under the hardest acceleration in second and third.There seems little doubt now that it is the transmission.I think the ignition relay is a great idea i'm definitely going to do that. and to the previous post who just replaced all his clutch parts . i think the clutch hanging up so that we have to rock the bike to get the clutch to release may be caused by a poorly aligned pressure plate spring hanging up on the clutch basket. it was difficult ligning up two clutch springs while torquing them down .if it is way off it might even keep it from putting full pressure on the fiber discs and be causing your slipping.I am going to check my alignment and retorque it soon . I'll also look for scrape marks>