I'm considering installing the Dynatek 2000 DDK7-1 computer kit in my 89 FJ. Any advise or warnings would be great. It looks pretty straightforward, though the directions I downloaded from Dynatek seem a bit sparce.
I've heard stories thru the years that the Dyna ignitions work...until they don't.
Hopefully DavidR (FJ Hooligan) RPM Randy and others will chime in...
In reading thru your earlier posts, did you find the cause of your problems?
I installed Dynatek ignition module, coils and wires on my '85 a LONG time ago.
Right off, I had one of the coils fail. I was in the middle of a pre-rally shakedown run on the highway and the failed coil caused the whole ignition module to shut down. I coasted in to a Honda dealer where I proceeded to tear the bike down in their parking lot. I called a friend to pick me up and take me back home where I had an extra unit (which was going to be installed on my '93 FJ). I swapped to the new unit and still dead. I tried ohmming the coils, but got strange results since the wires were still hooked up. Gave up and trailered the bike back home where the disconnected coils showed one to be bad. Dynatek warrantied the coil, but I took a full set of replacements to the rally with me.
Several years later (but not very many miles later, maybe 5000) I started having trouble with losing 2 cylinders. Always happened while slowing down. I'd go to pick the throttle back up and suddenly I was only running on 2 cylinders. Stop and wait about 10 minutes and it would fire back up on all 4. Didn't do it on every ride but had no indication when or where it would happen. Of course it never did it at home where I could swap components to troubleshoot. I finally called Dyna and they had me send the ignition unit back to them for testing. It had a cold solder joint failure which would open up at random times. Clearly a manufacturing defect but they "offered" to sell me a replacement for their "cost" at $123. Had no choice but to pay.
In the meantime, I had swapped over to my second unit, which I purchased at the same time as the failed unit. A year later, the second unit started the same symptom of randomly dropping 2 cylinders. Sent it back and it had the same issue (shock!). Paid another $123 for that replacement.
No other problems since then.
I don't like their plug wires. They are straight boots which barely fit under the tank and in fact rub the bottom of the tank. They also require use of the little screw on tips on the top of the plug. Somehow vibration allows the screw on tip to loosen up even though there is a nice "click" when installing the wire. Every time I've checked the plugs, these screw on tips are loose. So far none have actually fallen off, but it's still a bad design that allows them to loosen.
On the positive side. With the ignition, coils, and wires, the engine literally jumps to life. I haven't heard the starter actually have to crank the motor over in years. You just touch the starter button and the engine is instantly running. It's like an On switch.
Based on my experiences with the '85, I never installed the equipment on the '93. That system is now backup equipment that goes with me on every trip.
Like Pat says, when their shit works, it works well. The fact that I had to pay for their manufacturing defect still disappoints me enough that I can't give a ringing endorsement for their product.
YMMV
I still haven't solved the issue. Runs fine on startup, and then for several miles. Could be heat is affecting the coils or computer. It could still be a bum fuel pump, even though it's new. RPM is currently out of stock on their fuel pump, so I'll just have to see what I can do with the old one. I've seen a few OEM pumps on eBay, but there's no telling how much life is left in them. I could try RPM's fuel pump rebuild part. Thanks for the input on the Dynamics's 2000.
Years ago, Randy explained me that the OE coils and wires are the best. It is described in my website, as literal as Randy sent to me
With OE coils and the ignition relay mod my 2 FJs start only touching the button with hesitation, both are measured 12v at the spark plug, with no voltage loss and I´ve never have a problem in my 3CV in my long journeys
I think there are better ways to improve your FJ with that money
Regards
Alf
Isolate the fuel pump by plumbing around it temporarily. Connect the input and output hoses with a brass connector fitting. 5/16 inch.
Best to do it with a full tank. It's a very simple test and can be done with only removing the sidecover.
Thanks for the tips, I'll check the fuel pump out again. Is it worth buying a used OEM pump and replacing the breaker unit with one from RPM?
Bypass the fuel pump first...see if that's the problem before you spend any money. Is your fuel filter clean?
I'm off the idea of installing the Dyna 2000 kit. Too many bad reviews. I'd like to try the ignition coil relay mod. Where can I find the plans for it? May not solve the problem, but it couldn't hurt. I'm also going to replace the aftermarket pump with a stock used one, with the idea that I can rebuild it with the RPM part. I'll let you know how it goes.
Quote from: laseron on November 30, 2017, 10:27:18 AM
I'm off the idea of installing the Dyna 2000 kit. Too many bad reviews. I'd like to try the ignition coil relay mod. Where can I find the plans for it? May not solve the problem, but it couldn't hurt. I'm also going to replace the aftermarket pump with a stock used one, with the idea that I can rebuild it with the RPM part. I'll let you know how it goes.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1755.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1755.0)
I tested the Dyna Coils I installed several years ago, and each measures 6.6 ohms,. They're supposed to be 3 ohms. Is this enough of a difference to matter?
Were the coils hooked up? Or did you measure them off the bike?
I measured them off the bike, no wires connected.
This is far from my area of expertise, but I would assume you're okay since the bike is still running.
With twice the resistance the coils are supposed to have, your current flow is cut in half. That "should" reduce the amount of charge the coils is able to build up for the spark.
Therefore, you're probably not getting as good of a spark as you could be getting. But as long as you're getting a spark, the fuel/air mixture will ignite. You're just not seeing the full benefit of the coil's performance potential.
I think it would be a problem if the resistance decreases. This would allow more current to flow and overheat the coil or the ignition box.
So, as to my intermittent problem of running rough after several miles, and eventually shutting off, I'm back to suspecting the aftermarket fuel pump. While the engine was running in the garage (and running just fine, by the way) I unplugged the fuel pump from its wiring connector, an it made no difference. Engine kept idling, and revving it up to 4,000 rpm went well too. I'm going to replace the pump with a "known working" used OEM pump anyway, and see if the power loss and stalling goes away. Of course, in the garage, it never even hiccuped while running, even after a good heat soak from idling.
Be careful letting that big air cooled lump idle too long....you *will cook* an exhaust valve (or two)... then you *will* have problems.
2 Box fans will help move air across your cooling fins.
Report back on the replacement fuel pump. Again, it sure sounds to me like your engine is starving for fuel.
When it starts sputtering, open the throttle, if it momentarily recovers....its the fuel.
The lowering fuel level in the float bowls starve the pilots first, sputter starts. Opening the throttle puts you on the main jets which are located lower in the float bowl, the engine recovers until the fuel level drops below the inlet level of the main jets, then the engine stalls.
Cheers
Pat
Quote from: laseron on November 30, 2017, 06:30:09 PM
I tested the Dyna Coils I installed several years ago, and each measures 6.6 ohms,. They're supposed to be 3 ohms. Is this enough of a difference to matter?
There are several different models of dyna coils - each color coil is a different resistance. The hottest coils they make are suitable only for racing — street riding will overheat the coils and damage them
The Dyna grey colored coils are 2.2 ohms and good only with the Dyna 2000 ignition and not the oem FJ ignition.
The Dyna green coils are 3.0 ohm and are good with the oem FJ ignition....and will work with the Dyna ignition, although the lower 2.2 ohm Dyna grey coils are better with the Dyna ignition.
Pat I have the grey 2.2 ohm on the relay with stock ignition and it's been working great going on 3 yrs... When I installed them it seemed I had a little better throttle response but it could've been my imagination, they are also still working fine with the new 1350 engine... Also I did a 450 mile ride the other day running through the gears pretty good every now n then and I burned exactly1 ounce of oil, I have about 900 miles on the engine, that was using 15w40 reg oil but about to switch to the 20w50 shaeffer oil
Oh....I forgot, you think I should switch back to my stock coils, it would be very easy for me to do?
Yes, I think you should go back to your stock coils, (until you get the Dyna greens)
The Dyna grey 2.2ohm coils are too low of a resistance for the stock FJ igniter box.
You run the risk of cooking the ignition box.
It's been awhile, going by memory, IIRC the GYFSM specifies the coil ohm range of the FJ ignition to be between 2.6 ohms and 3.2 ohms. You want an aftermarket coil within that range.
That's why the 3 ohm Dyna greens were made, for street bikes running the stock ignition.
That said, the best bang for the buck is the coil relay. It's amazing how they wake up when supplied with the voltages fed off the battery. My oem wiring harness was only supplying ~10.8 volts to my coils.
Now those puppies are getting at least 12.8 to a running voltage of 14.4 volts
Cheers
I remember talking to the guys at dyna and they asked me to measure the ohms on my stock coils and I thought they were about 2.2 ohms also so that's why we went with the grays....I have a 92 fj so would that make any difference. I'm going to ohm my stock coils in the morning and see what they read.....thanks
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 08, 2017, 01:58:16 AM
That said, the best bang for the buck is the coil relay. It's amazing how they wake up when supplied with the voltages fed off the battery. My oem wiring harness was only supplying ~10.8 volts to my coils.
Now those puppies are getting at least 12.8 to a running voltage of 14.4 volts
Cheers
That is gospel Pat. :good2:
Doing a little math; I = V/R
If you get the full 12 volts to the coils with a stock coil resistance of 3 ohms, you're pulling 4 amps through the coil.
Assuming 4 amps is an okay current flow then installing a coil with 2.2 ohms resistance means you shouldn't allow more than 8.8 volts of coil power.
Assuming you have a typical voltage drop of about 10.5 volts at the coil, you're getting a current flow of 4.8 amps. ~20% over stock current.
Maybe not enough to overheat anything (since you're still running) but you would NOT want to do the relay mod with the grey coils and stock ignition box.
With 12 volts at the coil and 2.2 ohms resistance, that would send your current draw up to ~5.5 amps or ~36% over stock.
Hey pat I just ohm my stock coils and I'm getting 2ohm on both coils on 1 meter and 2.1 ohms on another meter, 1 meter is brand new
Have the relay on the grey dyna coils for 3 yrs and nothing burned yet....but like I said my stock coils read 2.0 ohms on both of them so am I missing something here
Robust system design
I went on yamahas parts list and this is what I found
From 1984 to 87 coil factory number from yamaha was 1AA-82310-09-00 BUT WHEN THEY CAME OUT WITH THE FJ IN 1989 AFTER SKIPPING 88 THE COIL FACTORY NUMBERS ARE 1WG-82310-09-00 AND ARE MORE EXPENSIVE......so they seem to be different coils
Quote from: yambutt on December 08, 2017, 01:57:06 PM
I went on yamahas parts list and this is what I found
From 1984 to 87 coil factory number from yamaha was 1AA-82310-09-00 BUT WHEN THEY CAME OUT WITH THE FJ IN 1989 AFTER SKIPPING 88 THE COIL FACTORY NUMBERS ARE 1WG-82310-09-00 AND ARE MORE EXPENSIVE......so they seem to be different coils
Nope, just the connectors are different.
Re coil test: Are the coils warm? Heat them up. They live in a hot environment under your tank. Warm coils have a higher resistance.
A quick check on my Clymer (not the GYFSM) shows the same values on the TCI/DCI coils to be primary: 2.4 to 3.0 ohms, secondary: 9.6k-14.4k ohms.
However, with all the mistakes in this Clymer, I trust it about as far as I can throw it (and I've thrown it a lot)
The Genuine Yamaha Factory Service Manual (GYFSM) is proper source. I really need to get one.
I don't know what to tell you.... 3 years is a long time on the Grey's. If headaches were to happen, it would have happened by now (maybe)
Here's what Dyna has to say about the 2.2 ohm grey's:
OEM: Check the resistance of the coils you are replacing to ensure a correct match. These coils work to replace some CDI or electronic ignition system coils where the resistance is in the low to mid 2 ohm range. If you have questions if these are correct- please call Dynatek at 1-800-928-3962
Never select a coil with a lower resistance than your ignition system - this will cause the coils to overheat and burn out... It is OK to select coils with a slightly higher resistance. For example 3.0 ohm coils with a 1.5 ohm CDI ignition. While this isn't optimal- it works and allows you to switch your CDI ignition over to a Dyna-S in the future.
Here's what dyna just sent me seconds ago
Hello Thomas.
The Yamaha FJ models did change (stock) ignitions and subsequent coil primary
ohm ratings over the years, so it is critical the model year be verified.
The 1989 and 1990 1200 engines used a coil having a 2.4 to 3.0 ohm primary ohm
rating, so the 2.2 ohm coils should never be used with a stock ignition.
However, on the 1991 to 1993 1200 engines, this changed to a 1.8 to 2.2 ohm
rating. So, your 1992 model is perfectly safe using the DC4-1 coil set, rated
at 2.2 ohms if you have the stock or Dyna 2000 ignition system.
Thank you,
Larry Nelson
Technical Support
Dynatek
1-800-928-DYNA (3962)
http://www.dynaonline.com (http://www.dynaonline.com)
Quote from: yambutt on December 08, 2017, 01:57:06 PM
I went on yamahas parts list and this is what I found
From 1984 to 87 coil factory number from yamaha was 1AA-82310-09-00 BUT WHEN THEY CAME OUT WITH THE FJ IN 1989 AFTER SKIPPING 88 THE COIL FACTORY NUMBERS ARE 1WG-82310-09-00 AND ARE MORE EXPENSIVE......so they seem to be different coils
My 1992 stock coil readings actually are 1.8 ohms
Hello Thomas.
The Yamaha FJ models did change (stock) ignitions and subsequent coil primary
ohm ratings over the years, so it is critical the model year be verified.
The 1989 and 1990 1200 engines used a coil having a 2.4 to 3.0 ohm primary ohm
rating, so the 2.2 ohm coils should never be used with a stock ignition.
However, on the 1991 to 1993 1200 engines, this changed to a 1.8 to 2.2 ohm
rating. So, your 1992 model is perfectly safe using the DC4-1 coil set, rated
at 2.2 ohms if you have the stock or Dyna 2000 ignition system.
Thank you,
Larry Nelson
Technical Support
Dynatek
1-800-928-DYNA (3962)
http://www.dynaonline.com (http://www.dynaonline.com)
Thanks Thomas, good to know!
I wonder what the '91-93 coil test values are as listed in GYFSM? Can anyone look it up for me?
I trust the Dyna folks over that Clymer....yet another reason to throw it away....
Good stuff Thomas, thanks for setting me straight. :good2:
Pat the more I thought about it the more I remembered that the 2.2 ohm dyna was ok on my 92 so when I measured 1.8 ohms and got that figure this morning from Larry at dyna it reassured me that I was ok, still may put my stock coils back in tho
Why?
He also said this
Hello Thomas.
Truth be told, we have seen very random issues with the Dyna 2000 over the
past 25 years, but these issues amount to a total of less than 5 of every 100
units sold. Most only hear the negative stories, not the good, which far out
number them.
Many thousands of users, including myself, have had no issues at all over the
years on their bikes, but a few have. The Dyna 2000 modules have been updated
over the years where deemed needed to provide the best possible performance
and reliability, including their being PC programmable. This does not mean
that someone may not have an issue from time to time, but being a performance
product, things can happen from time to time, regardless of our best efforts.
Be this as it may, we can understand your concerns and perhaps someday you
will try the Dyna 2000 yourself.
Thank you,
Larry Nelson
Technical Support
Dynatek
1-800-928-DYNA (3962)
http://www.dynaonline.com (http://www.dynaonline.com)
Quote from: yambutt on December 08, 2017, 04:49:51 PM
Pat the more I thought about it the more I remembered that the 2.2 ohm dyna was ok on my 92 so when I measured 1.8 ohms and got that figure this morning from Larry at dyna it reassured me that I was ok, still may put my stock coils back in tho
The stock coils are hard wired although I'm pretty sure I soldiered the terminals to the screw terminals on the dynas but the plug wires I crimped on
Soldiered the leads to the screw terminals on the dyna....I don't trust electrical screw terminals, better if you can soldier them
5% failure rate is high. If a manufacturer says 5% I wonder if it's really 10%?
I wonder if the FJ's notorious over charging issues (e.g.15+ volts) are partly to blame?
Regardless, I do not want to be one of the unlucky 5% in the middle of BFE when the Dyna ignition quits.
In my experience, in an environment of vibration, a 'quality' crimped connection is superior over a soldered connection.
Yea 5% = 10% Soldier in my business is so much more reliable than any crimp if it's not cold soldiered and also in the high-end audiophile world crimping is a definite NO NO
Yamaha 93 service manual lists 1.8 to 2.2 ohms as primary winding resistance. Secondary winding is 9.6 to 14.4 ohms.
Dave
But saying all that with vibrations included in the mix I would say a good crimping job is better than soldier due to the flexibility a crimp has over soldier
My leads on my dyna coils if I remember correctly are screwed down then soldiered to the screw plate
Quote from: TexasDave on December 08, 2017, 05:12:55 PM
Yamaha 93 service manual lists 1.8 to 2.2 ohms as primary winding resistance. Secondary winding is 9.6 to 14.4 ohms.
Dave
Thanks Dave!
That does it....I'm throwing that fucker away....
Wonder what else is wrong in those manuels
I wonder what they will advise the failure rate is of the "INEX Re Box" (Dyna Mfg). We have seen as many of 5 fail on a race weekend, that I was aware of. Heck there could have been more.
When we have to come up with things like this Red Box Ignition System Shock Proof Mount (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RedBoxMount) to help isolate the box, there is definitely issues within the circuit board.
(http://www.rpmracingca.com/prodimages/large/RedBoxMount-1.jpg)
The Yamaha CDI/TCI module mounted in the same location has a failure rate of less than .001% I am sure. In fact in my 20 plus years of racing the FJ powered cars, I have never had a Yamaha ignition box fail. I have screwed up and let out the magic smoke out a couple of times, but I have never been left at the side of the track with a bad one.
Now, I know there a couple of guys here who have had failures. I know for sure Cap'n Ron did, because I had to send him one to complete his 20k trip a few years back. But a couple of all of the years is much better than David having both of his go bad...
Randy - RPM
Hmmm I just better keep the factory ignition
The Dyna 2000 ignition module failed on my 89. Dyna tested it and replaced it,for a fee. But it was mounted in the fairing, directly above the oil cooler. It now resides in the tail, in a bed of neoprene.
Quote from: Yamahahammer1300 on December 19, 2017, 09:23:07 PM
The Dyna 2000 ignition module failed on my 89. Dyna tested it and replaced it,for a fee. But it was mounted in the fairing, directly above the oil cooler. It now resides in the tail, in a bed of neoprene.
I did not bother pursuing this the other day when Jools mentioned the OEM electronics were housed there (in response to my suggestion about it being too hot) but seeing as how it's been brought up again....
When manufacturers are hunting around for OEM components (from 3rd party suppliers) they issue a brief of performance criteria, in this case, one of them would be heat.
Manufacturers of after market accessories are bound by no such requirements. In fact, if you read the fine print (or sometimes the bold print) you will see they specifically mention choosing a mounting location away from excessive heat.
I have seen plenty fail, they distort, covers fall off leaving them prone to dust and moisture contamination or actual component failure. If the device has a potted circuit board, the potting material will often shrink and crack from the heat (allowing moisture or dust to short circuit the board) In my experience, dust seems to be a bigger problem than moisture.
The fact is, you will probably get away with mounting it anywhere, as I'm
sure someone will point out, but I have seen and fixed enough problems to play it safe on my own bike. As Sparky mentioned, an extra metre of wire is neither here nor there when it comes to voltage loss and if the wiring is secured, protected and joined properly, not an issue.
Maybe Mike could have use the CO2 cannisters he stores in the tail to cool his electrical melt down recently. :biggrin: (just kidding Mike) Speaking of which, did you ever find what caused that?
IMO
Noel
Quote from: Yamahahammer1300 on December 19, 2017, 09:23:07 PM
The Dyna 2000 ignition module failed on my 89. Dyna tested it and replaced it,for a fee. But it was mounted in the fairing, directly above the oil cooler. It now resides in the tail, in a bed of neoprene.
That's where I mounted mine about 12 years ago and never a problem.