So. I have leaking fork seals, but it has taken two years to have any real issues. I'm pretty sure I felt them bottom out as I almost t-boned someone making a left hand turn. What my question is: can I fill my forks without taking anything apart as a quick fix until I can get to a shop? There are no shops where I'm at and the closest one is 100 miles away. How hard is it to change your fork seals? I only assume it is best to have a shop do it. Thank you, everyone is super helpful on here.
Changing the seals is not that difficult. Adding oil requires pulling the seal out. Might as well put new seals in with fresh oil. Do you have a service manual for the FJ? One of the most critical tools I forgot to mention in my other post. Much can be down loaded from our files section. I made a seal driver from common plastic plumbing parts.
I don't own the service manual. Isn't there the air bleeder valve I can fill from? Were talking about an 87' 1200
Read the files that were mentioned above, and look at Youtube videos of similar fork seals being changed. After that, you'll have an understanding of what it takes to change the fork seals. If it seems beyond your skill set, and available tools, then you should have a shop or someone that's capable do the repairs.
Try this, it is in the Files Section
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=5067.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=5067.0)
Hi. If getting to a shop is the sticking point. Declare a men's shed day,either with some local riders like I did last weekend, or with FJ members. People will travel if you can provide a bed and food, which is cheaper than shop labor costs. Swap knowledge, have a chat and some beers and get it fixed at the same time. There would be a rider somewhere near you that could help.
Mark
Quote from: FJmonkey on November 13, 2017, 06:10:27 PM
...Adding oil requires pulling the seal out....
Say what? To just add oil? Whatever happened to: unscrew the upper cap, add oil, reinstall upper cap? Yes, of course if the fork seals are leaking then they should be replaced but the OP is just trying to get by until he can get the bike to a shop. And as for the seal replacement being "an easy job" I think this might be beyond Mr. Ryan's capabilities. I don't know, but just reading between the lines...
Sure, replacing the seals is easy if you've done it before. If you understand tools and machinery. If you've had someone walk you thru it before. But for a newbie first-timer? I'm not so sure.
Ryan, yes you can add oil to your forks until you can get your bike to a shop. If the engine was low, you would add oil wouldn't you? Same thing. Ok, a few notes here: those upper caps are the upper spring perches. Meaning they are holding the front of the bike up. Do one at a time or the forks will collapse on you. No damage but one heck of a geyser of dirty oil shooting out of the top of the fork. Also, if you look around files and various internet sources, you find a reference to the oil level being about 6 inches below the top of the fork. That is with the fork fully COLLAPSED. So how much oil do you add if the forks are extended? I dunno... maybe add an ounce or two? Or maybe use some sort of skyhook or a jack to slowly lower the bike until the forks are collapsed, then add the proper amount of oil. Also, be careful to not cross-thread the upper caps when you reinstall. They are aluminum and very fine threads. If you cross-thread, you will (probably) never get them on straight.
Yes, replace the fork seals yourself if you have lots of time (so you can ask questions here) and a CLEAN place to work. Otherwise, take it to the shop.
Bill
One other thing I would like to point out while we are sitting around the digital campfire...
Read the OP's original post. Then read the replies and you will see that NOT ONE person (except me) answered his question. All he asked was, Can I add oil? And every reply then proceeded to tell him that he should change the seals, it's not that hard, round up some buddies, watch YouTube, have a man-shed day... All good advice, except that none of those replies answered his question.
This one tendency for people to jump ahead and steer someone in a different direction just drives me nuts. I know it's easy for us armchair experts to believe the fellow on the other end is an idiot (Oh Jeez, what was the name of that kid that cut off the tip of finger oiling his chain?) but sometimes the guy on the other end is just asking a question. Let's help him out and simply answer the question first. THEN we can launch into a discussion on the merits of which oil is best... (ducking for cover.) Anyway, my 2 cents...
Bill
And Ryan... PUT YOUR LOCATION IN IN YOUR AVATAR. Maybe someone lives nearby and will offer to help...
Quote from: FJmonkey on November 13, 2017, 06:10:27 PM
Adding oil requires pulling the seal out.
[edit] Bill beat me by 4 minutes.....
You can drain the oil out and add new oil without pulling the forks apart.
It's best if you can remove the forks from the triple clamps, good to turn them upside down for complete draining, good to hold them vertical for oil level measurement... but even still, you can drain/add oil leaving the fork legs installed:
Lift the front end (Jack stands under front frame cradle) remove wheel.
Loosen fork spring preload to the lowest setting.
Loosen top clamp pinch bolts.
Remove fork cap
Remove fork springs.
Open up drain screws on the lower sliders, drain out old oil, (it takes awhile, be patient) at the end of draining, put the fork cap back on and move the lower slider up and down to pump out any residual oil.(springs removed)
Take cap back off.
Collapse lower sliders on the stanchion tubes, all the way up. Zip tie fork lowers to hold them up.
Add new oil. Be careful on your measurement, realize that your forks are on an angle so measure accordingly.
Cut zip ties, extend back down the lower sliders, add springs and fork caps, wheel, etc...
That said....you really, really really should fix your seals.
Leaking fork seals can get fork oil on your brake rotors and cause you to have a OMG moment.
IMHO it's better to ride with your forks dry, than chance compromised front brakes.
If you don't want to ride your bike to the shop with dry forks, take your forks off and drive them to the shop.
Cheers, please be careful. Pat
:blush: I jumped to my first thought of needing oil, bad seals.... As you were....
Quote from: CutterBill on November 13, 2017, 08:41:23 PM
One other thing I would like to point out while we are sitting around the digital campfire...
Read the OP's original post. Then read the replies and you will see that NOT ONE person (except me) answered his question. All good advice, except that none of those replies answered his question.
Yes, other previous replies did answer his question. The OP would only need to practice a little self help. Further, the OP's next obvious question was answered as well, and it all took less than two separate posts and 550 words too!
:Facepalm:
There is the old dirt bike trick you can try for a fix. We usually use a "tear off" and cut it down to make the tool so any super-thin tough, flexible plastic will work. Cut it down to a 1"x4" strip. Slip it in between the seal and the fork tube and go around the circumference of the fork to clean any dirt out of the seal. You might get lucky and the seal might do its job at this point. It works some of the time and saves you from doing a seal job. If not, add oil in the top of fork and get it fixed.
So... Thanks for all the info guys. I feel the need to explain my mechanical capabilities. Not to impress but just so we're on the same page. Because of YouTube/internet...So far I have been able to: install dynojet jet kit (carbs), diagnose and replace shift shaft, replace inner boss hub (after breaking it during shift shaft repair) install new turn signals, diagnose and install new ignition, remove air box and install pod filters and always change my own oil. I had the shop install a new back tire and entire gasket kit. With that being said I have never worked on a motorcycle AND this is the first death chariot I've owned... It mostly a time and tools reason I don't do my own repairs. All I want to do is add oil to my forks. There are some things I understand are better left to professionals... However I've done all of my repairs out of necessity because most shops won't touch an 87'...
I don't see the fork seal R/R instructions in the files section. Used to be a detailed process for accomplishing the task along with the instructions for making the 3 special tools.
The hardest tool to buy/make is something to remove the fork caps and hold the damper rod in place while removing and re-installing the damper rod holder bolt (10mm allen bolt on the bottom of the fork slider). This tool is easy to make if you can find an M18 hex head bolt. This bolt has a 27mm head and fits the fork caps and the damper rod. Next, get a 5/8ths inch deep well, 12-point socket in your choice of drive size (3/8 or 1/2). Take a BFH and beat the socket onto the threads of the bolt. Instant fork tool! An M18 bolt is not too common. Others have used an oversized SAE bolt (~1-1/6 or 1-1/8 inch head size) and ground it down to fit.
Use this tool to disassemble the forks in accordance with instructions in the manual.
Next, you need a fork seal driver. Easiest solution is to purchase a generic fork seal driver (Motion Pro) or an FJ-specific 41mm fork seal driver.
Or, you can make your own fork seal driver for about $3. You will need the following:
2 foot section of 2 inch schedule 40 PVC pipe,
One 2 inch endcap for above section of pipe,
1 piece of 1-1/4 inch PVC pipe COUPLER,
One 4 to 6 inch length of 2x4 lumber.
Some manufacturing skills are required:
Install cap onto PVC pipe section. This is what you will use to hammer the seal into position.
On 1-1/4 inch PVC coupler, there is a step/stop ridge in the ID of the coupler, grind it down flush with the ID of the fitting. You will notice that the coupler is a nice fit onto the FJ fork tube.
Next, take the 2x4 and drill a 41+mm hole in it so it fits over the fork tube.
Now you are ready for assembly:
With tapered spindle (cone shaped piece) on end of fork tube, install damper rod with top-out spring into fork tube.
Making sure tapered spindle stays in place, install fork tube into slider.
Install 10mm allen bolt to hold damper rod in place.
Be aware of damper rod alignment and damper alignment screw (see manual) and use damper rod holding tool to hold DR in place while you tighten it down.
From top of fork tube, install upper bushing and washer. You should be able to press upper bushing into position by hand,
Next comes the fork seal. Make sure you don't install it upside down! Oil it up good it's easier to press into position.
Push fork seal into position on top of fork slider.
Install 1-1/4 inch PVC coupler on top of fork seal.
Next is 2x4 wood adapter.
Now, slide the 2 inch PVC pipe with end cap over fork tube and hammer seal into place.
Remove pipe, 2x4, and coupler.
Verify you can see the wire keeper groove above the seal.
Depending on year model, there may be another washer above the seal.
Install keeper wire and dust cover and you'll be ready to add oil.
Add specified amount of oil then pump fork to distribute oil and displace air.
This is where you collapse fork and measure fork oil distance from top of fork. Typical height is 120 to 140mm from top of tube.
Next extend fork and install fork spring.
Now, do yourself a BIG favor. With the spring installed and the tube fully extended, re-measure the fork oil height and WRITE THIS DOWN! That way next time you want to change the oil you can do it with out tearing the whole front end down just so you can compress the fork tube. Trust me, this will turn a 3 hour job into 20 minutes.
Install spacer, washers and top cap and you're done!
For the finished fork, assembly is the reverse of removal.
One final thing. If you still have anti-dive forks, you might want to disable the A/D while you have them apart. This is very easy to do while you have the damper rod out. Simply drill two 5/16th inch holes 180 degrees apart in the DR above the step for the tapered spindle. This will provide a route for the oil to bypass the A/D unit.
Final, final thing. If you have A/D, be sure to account and re-install the 3 washers above the tapered spindle. There are two flat washers with a wave washer between them. Also, tapered spindle installs with tapered end facing top of fork.
There, a bunch of information that you didn't ask for. :-)
But, as others have said, you can add oil to your forks to avoid all this. I would also add caution that the leaking oil does not contaminate the brake caliper seals. It will.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 14, 2017, 05:06:32 PM
The hardest tool to buy/make is something to remove the fork caps and hold the damper rod in place while removing and re-installing the damper rod holder bolt (10mm allen bolt on the bottom of the fork slider).
David, it is almost 2018, there is no trouble finding the proper tools you need for working on your FJ forks.
They are always in stock at
RPM (https://www.rpmracingca.com).
27mm Fork Tool (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=27mmForkHolder)
41mm Fork Seal Driver (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Tools%3Aforksealdriver)
Fork Level Gauge (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=tools%3AForkLevel)
Plus, everything else you need to do the job right the first time.
FJ 41mm Fork Seal & Wiper Kit (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkSealKit) ~OR~
RPM/FJ 41mm Fork Rebuild Kit (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkR%2FBKit)
Some additional parts to ensure you don't experience leaks elsewhere after reassembly.
Gasket, Copper Fork Damper Washer (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CopperForkGasket)
Fork Leg Drain Screw Washer (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AForkLegDrainWasher)
Fork Leg Drain Screw (Allen Head) (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AForkDrainScrew)
Motul Factory Team Line 10wt Fork Oil (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Motul10W)
Here is the RPM fork brace to stiffen up the assembly, This allows the bushings & seals to live longer.
RPM Fork Brace (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AForkBrace)
In the event Ryan wants install the best upgrade for your FJ forks, here are the parts needed for that.
RPM Fork Valve (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve)
Front Fork Spring .85kg/mm (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFS.85)
Motul Factory Team Line 5wt Fork Oil (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Motul5W)
RPM has the seal mate in stock as well:
Seal Mate (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=08-0356)
Randy -
RPM (https://www.rpmracingca.com)
Thanks Randy.
I keep forgetting that everyone doesn't still live in the stone age with me.
I made these tools about 20 years ago. And I've only replaced 2 sets of FJ fork seals using them. :-)
Hey David, holy moley you're right! How did I miss this?
We don't have a fork seal tutorial in our Suspension Files.
So....Would you mind if I copied and pasted your post for further reference in the Suspension Files ?
Cheers. Pat
Pat,
Why do you even ask? :-)
Of course. Isn't this considered public domain? I would assume that anything I post here automatically becomes public and maybe even property of the site?
Don't all the pictures we post to the gallery get an FJ_OWNERS.COM ghost?
Pat,
I found it. The instructions and tool descriptions are imbedded in the write up Chris P did for upgrading the early FJ forks for the 17 inch front wheel.
So, technically I may have plagiarized Chris. Although those words look really familiar. This may have been a collaboration. I don't remember.
After your post (reply #13) I did see Chris's (FJ Flyer) post on the late model fork conversion, but I think a dedicated topic on fork seal removal/replacement is a good idea.
David, I've been around FJ's for a few years and I think you, singlehandedly, are responsible for our most valuable information in the Flies.
We are fortunate to have you on our forum.
Hey Randy, I was thinking, next time you or Robert has a set of forks apart, could you snap some pictures for us? I can add them as needed. I know there are differences between early and late model forks regarding proper reassembly.
I'm thinking about the success we have with our clutch tutorial (notice the absence of clutch how to related questions?) and thought a similar File on fork seal replacement would be cool.
Cheers. Pat
Pat,
You are too kind and definitely prone to exaggeration
I've just tried to pull my weight and earn my spot.
Many others have contributed far more and deserve that kind of praise.
fork seal driver= pvc plumbing fitting that you can sand and fit to your application. Pvc is easy on the new seals and won't mar the fork tubes. Should cost about a buck.
News flash!
All I want to do is add oil for now... How do I do that :Facepalm:
CuttterBill answered this on the previous page. Removing the fork caps will allow you add oil. Do one side at a time or support the front end. If the second cap is removed before the first one is back in place, it will allow the spring to release and the front will drop till the fork bottoms out.
Sure, just pour some oil in...question is, how much to add?
To do it right, you've got to measure the oil level.
To measure correctly, with the spring out, you have to collapse the lower leg. The oil level is measured with the lower leg collapsed...so..
To collapse the lower leg, the front wheel and axle and fender has to be removed...
Please explain: How are you going to do this by doing one fork, while the other fork supports the bike?
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 14, 2017, 08:40:44 PM
Pat,
You are too kind and definitely prone to exaggeration
I've just tried to pull my weight and earn my spot.
Many others have contributed far more and deserve that kind of praise.
Yea, it's a good thing for this site that you knowledgeable die-hards still are active here. Helping out.
If it was left to the passive members, the ones that use members like you for their daily entertainment, this site would cease to exist in short order.
Many owe your types a big thanks for keeping this site and the interest for the FJ alive.