:ireful: So I left work....riding along .... tach goes dead. Still moving along ... running okay ... No turn signals. No brake lights. Marker lights on. No horn. Feels as if running out of gas. Dies. I check all fuses under seat. Visibly good but do not carry DVM or anything to test fuse continuity. It is an 89 with 43k on it. I got it home last two miles when I finally get it started with full choke and plenty of throttle. No markers. No tach. No horn. No signals. HELP PLEASE. I have only had this bike less than a month. Until today it has run flawlessly. ARGHHHHHH. :Facepalm:
The tach is only electrical, so if the tach went dead but bike ran fine then you have an electrical Gremlin to sort out. The fuel pump also requires power so starved for fuel is another clue. Check battery first. If voltage is low then it may be a bad battery or poor charging. Check the red colored connector under the left side panel under the seat. Don't just look at it, pull it apart. They tend to cook and can either become a resistor or failed connection. These bikes are not that complicated, you will find it, fix it, and have a reliable steed once again.
Tim:
This bike has a digital voltmeter (I installed it). Did you happen to notice readings lately? I replaced the rectifier/regulator and it was charging on the high side. Sent back to RPM and they sent me a replacement. This one also charged at 14.6 - 14.9 which concerned me again but was told this is OK. But I never saw 15 saw decided it was OK.
On my FJ1100 it charged 'low' only getting into low 14s. And my FJR with a voltmeter reads 13.7 or 13.8 and never higher. Been charging at that voltage for several years and seems fine, always starts even after 1-2 week sitting idle.
So, I'm thinking you've got an electrical issue - either the battery is near death (only a year old, BTW) or an iffy connection somewhere. What does the voltmeter read with key on but not running? That would tell me something.
Stuart
Stuart,
The meter has been running a consistent 14.8. It was not registering at all when the bike died. I am at Applebees now with kids and when home will begin hitting connnections and testing.
BTW - it was cranking strong as ever as I cranked forever to find some gas to get home. The battery seemed strong and I would guess is good. We will see.
Quote from: FJmonkey on September 27, 2017, 04:56:14 PM
The tach is only electrical, so if the tach went dead but bike ran fine then you have an electrical Gremlin to sort out. The fuel pump also requires power so starved for fuel is another clue. Check battery first. If voltage is low then it may be a bad battery or poor charging. Check the red colored connector under the left side panel under the seat. Don't just look at it, pull it apart. They tend to cook and can either become a resistor or failed connection. These bikes are not that complicated, you will find it, fix it, and have a reliable steed once again.
Yes I was thinking electrical. I am going to begin a thorough gremlin hunt tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for the direction.
With multiple indicator lights and the tachometer not working..... Check to see if the brake light comes on when you engage the REAR brake lever. Your symptoms are indicative of a blown SIGNAL fuse.
Fred
Tim.
Stay tuned for a post, possibly from another member.
Just went through these exact same symptoms with him.
Hang on a few days. I am not at my computer this weekend, but could very possibly be a faulty regulator and an overcharge spike condition.
Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 27, 2017, 09:26:57 PM
Tim.
Stay tuned for a post, possibly from another member.
Just went through these exact same symptoms with him.
Hang on a few days. I am not at my computer this weekend, but could very possibly be a faulty regulator and an overcharge spike condition.
+1... :)
I had same happend to me riding suddenly no blinkers and engine started to bull weak before stopped.On mine it was the rear brake light connector fallen out of socket
and making a short into metal of the top of rear damper adjuster.The signal fuse 15A under seat was blown.Then the engine gets no fuel.
By the way.. i read that you did have oil on right side og backwheel im thinking mayby its brakefluid from rearbrake hose or the cannister leaking mayby you have been in there and by accident pulled out the rear blakelight conector ...
Quote from: aviationfred on September 27, 2017, 08:49:47 PM
With multiple indicator lights and the tachometer not working..... Check to see if the brake light comes on when you engage the REAR brake lever. Your symptoms are indicative of a blown SIGNAL fuse.
Fred
No brake light, Fred. Thanks for the pointer.
Quote from: Old Rider on September 28, 2017, 08:04:49 AM
I had same happend to me riding suddenly no blinkers and engine started to bull weak before stopped.On mine it was the rear brake light connector fallen out of socket
and making a short into metal of the top of rear damper adjuster.The signal fuse 15A under seat was blown.Then the engine gets no fuel.
By the way.. i read that you did have oil on right side og backwheel im thinking mayby its brakefluid from rearbrake hose or the cannister leaking mayby you have been in there and by accident pulled out the rear blakelight conector ...
I will make certain I check every connection and prioritize this one first. Thanks for your inputs. Lots to go on. Will work a bit on her this evening and let you know. Thanks!
Quote from: Stuarto49 on September 27, 2017, 05:27:11 PM
Tim:
This bike has a digital voltmeter (I installed it). Did you happen to notice readings lately? I replaced the rectifier/regulator and it was charging on the high side. Sent back to RPM and they sent me a replacement. This one also charged at 14.6 - 14.9 which concerned me again but was told this is OK. But I never saw 15 saw decided it was OK.
On my FJ1100 it charged 'low' only getting into low 14s. And my FJR with a voltmeter reads 13.7 or 13.8 and never higher. Been charging at that voltage for several years and seems fine, always starts even after 1-2 week sitting idle.
So, I'm thinking you've got an electrical issue - either the battery is near death (only a year old, BTW) or an iffy connection somewhere. What does the voltmeter read with key on but not running? That would tell me something.
Stuart
Stuart,
The battery reads 12.8v, as it does on digital display when no lights are on and at idle. Turn lights on and drive, it has been a very constant 14.8v. I look at it all the time. Hard to miss!
Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 27, 2017, 09:26:57 PM
Tim.
Stay tuned for a post, possibly from another member.
Just went through these exact same symptoms with him.
Hang on a few days. I am not at my computer this weekend, but could very possibly be a faulty regulator and an overcharge spike condition.
I look forward to seeing the synopsis. Thanks !!! I will continue to troubleshoot over the weekend if not rectified this evening.
Quote from: timleslie1957 on September 28, 2017, 08:24:20 AM
Quote from: Stuarto49 on September 27, 2017, 05:27:11 PM
Tim:
This bike has a digital voltmeter (I installed it). Did you happen to notice readings lately? I replaced the rectifier/regulator and it was charging on the high side. Sent back to RPM and they sent me a replacement. This one also charged at 14.6 - 14.9 which concerned me again but was told this is OK. But I never saw 15 saw decided it was OK.
On my FJ1100 it charged 'low' only getting into low 14s. And my FJR with a voltmeter reads 13.7 or 13.8 and never higher. Been charging at that voltage for several years and seems fine, always starts even after 1-2 week sitting idle.
So, I'm thinking you've got an electrical issue - either the battery is near death (only a year old, BTW) or an iffy connection somewhere. What does the voltmeter read with key on but not running? That would tell me something.
Stuart
Oh as well ... the digital display is inop at this time as well.
Stuart,
The battery reads 12.8v, as it does on digital display when no lights are on and at idle. Turn lights on and drive, it has been a very constant 14.8v. I look at it all the time. Hard to miss!
Quote from: Stuarto49 on September 27, 2017, 05:27:11 PM
Tim:
This bike has a digital voltmeter (I installed it). Did you happen to notice readings lately? I replaced the rectifier/regulator and it was charging on the high side. Sent back to RPM and they sent me a replacement. This one also charged at 14.6 - 14.9 which concerned me again but was told this is OK. But I never saw 15 saw decided it was OK.
On my FJ1100 it charged 'low' only getting into low 14s. And my FJR with a voltmeter reads 13.7 or 13.8 and never higher. Been charging at that voltage for several years and seems fine, always starts even after 1-2 week sitting idle.
So, I'm thinking you've got an electrical issue - either the battery is near death (only a year old, BTW) or an iffy connection somewhere. What does the voltmeter read with key on but not running? That would tell me something.
Stuart
12.3 v battery. No DVM power. Blown turn signal fuse. Replaced. Blew again. Looking for grounds. Continuity battery cable is good. No grounds around battery. Purchased 10 15a fuses. Found one small hair of a ground on one wire across back fender. Have not tried new fuse as I really do not think this could be it.
Check the rear break switch. The lock nut has a tendency to work loose. I have seen this be the cause of a short in the brake switch wires. This switch IS on the turn signal fuse circuit.
Fred
Will do ... I will have a lot more time over the weekend. Leaves are changing, gotta get her running again! I feel like I lost a family member! :unknown:
You are certainly on the right track. If you found a blown fuse, and it blew again, you will find a short somewhere in the system. Study the wiring diagram in the shop manual so at least you will know what devices are fed by that 15A fuse. There are only a few devices on that feed. One of them is a dead short to ground.
Stuart
Anyone that tinkers with cars or bikes should have one of these, makes finding shorts and broken connections a cinch. You can check the continuity of all electrical connections and test the integrity of earths at any point over their length in minutes. To find a short, attach the clip end to earth and start probing live wires (with no power to them) and any wire that lights up the tester is shorting to earth. No more scratching around for days swapping bits out hoping to get lucky.
(https://www.otctools.com/sites/default/files/styles/vt_commerce_image_large/public/3630_1113_0.jpg?itok=_-5tUOAA)
It's a self (battery) powered continuity tester, sort of like a reverse test light. It makes homing in on a short a few minutes work, particularly on a bike where everything is accessible.
Way better for this sort of work than a multi meter and they are only $15-$20
Noel
Quote from: Stuarto49 on September 29, 2017, 09:29:37 AM
You are certainly on the right track. If you found a blown fuse, and it blew again, you will find a short somewhere in the system. Study the wiring diagram in the shop manual so at least you will know what devices are fed by that 15A fuse. There are only a few devices on that feed. One of them is a dead short to ground.
Stuart
Funny you said that about the manual. I have it here at work today and was just getting ready to take a break and take a "squint" at it. I was an Electronics Warfare Specialist in the Navy so I know my way around schematics and such. I also know shorts and dead shorts are difficult, but the wiring seems fairly accessible. I just need some quality time (early in morning before my boys awaken) to troubleshoot now. Lessons relearned a kazillion times now - you can't tell a fuse is blown simply by looking at it. Have you ever tried the "glow" fuses?
Stuart, as usual, thanks for your time. I get lazy and look for shortcuts, and this forum is INCREDIBLE so I data mined here since I have access to PCs all day long. I really appreciate your help. I absolutely love this bike. Never rode anything I enjoyed more. And I have ridden a lot of them. A friend is pushing me to buy a newer model one day, and I am thinking on five year plan to get another Yamaha but I am not selling this one. Incredible machinery supported by these guys here so well. Incredible!
Quote from: ribbert on September 29, 2017, 10:21:20 AM
Anyone that tinkers with cars or bikes should have one of these, makes finding shorts and broken connections a cinch. You can check the continuity of all electrical connections and test the integrity of earths at any point over their length in minutes. To find a short, attach the clip end to earth and start probing live wires (with no power to them) and any wire that lights up the tester is shorting to earth. No more scratching around for days swapping bits out hoping to get lucky.
(https://www.otctools.com/sites/default/files/styles/vt_commerce_image_large/public/3630_1113_0.jpg?itok=_-5tUOAA)
It's a self (battery) powered continuity tester, sort of like a reverse test light. It makes homing in on a short a few minutes work, particularly on a bike where everything is accessible.
Way better for this sort of work than a multi meter and they are only $15-$20
Noel
Thanks Noel! You know, I use a DVM and you are so right. I use my friends continuity tester but should indeed buy my own. Stopping by the store this afternoon on the way home from work! I'm sure my bud will be relieved as well! LOL
Okay so the schematics in Haynes for my year bike has the solid brown feeding:
- rear brake light sw
- front brake light sw
- horn
- fuel gauge which jumps to: fuel warning light, neutral, oil level.
- E Regulator feeds base of fuse switches to headlight, ignition and signal. The bike WILL start but bogs down soon unless you feed it entire choke, then revs steady about 2.5k to 4k RPM. All listed items are inop.
So troubleshooting, I guess I should T/S destination to source (from say brake sw to fuse) etc until I find short. The only part that has me confused is the feed from the regulator. I need to trace the DVM back as well and I will assume it was hooked into the brown as well since it is dead also. Sound reasonable?
I would start where any aftermarket equipment (like a voltmeter) was spliced into the brown wire. Please don't take that personally Stuart!
Look for places where the harness rubs against the frame. I know I've had trouble with my horn wires falling off the horn tabs. The small section of the harness is subject to a lot of flexing.
What's a E Regulator?
I thought the carb issue was due to the fuel pump not working because it's on this circuit? The choke supplies more fuel, but that fuel comes from the same float bowl. Is this related to the electrical problem or a separate issue?
A ground fault in the horn wires is common. The 2 wires are hot, only grounded by the horn button.
The wires can rub against the steering neck every time you turn the forks.
For owners of the '88+ fuel pump FJ's it's important to learn how to splice your fuel line together to by pass the fuel pump in the rare occurrence when the fuel pump fails. This knowledge will get you home.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 29, 2017, 02:56:47 PM
I would start where any aftermarket equipment (like a voltmeter) was spliced into the brown wire. Please don't take that personally Stuart!
Look for places where the harness rubs against the frame. I know I've had trouble with my horn wires falling off the horn tabs. The small section of the harness is subject to a lot of flexing.
What's a E Regulator
I thought the carb issue was due to the fuel pump not working because it's on this circuit? The choke supplies more fuel, but that fuel comes from the same float bowl. Is this related to the electrical problem or a separate issue?
E is voltage symbol ... Sorry. Old habits. Duuno about fuel pump. All I know is it will nokt run without choke on full.. Did not see the brown feeding the pump but will remember to run that down. Thanks.
The bike would not run when this happened as in it died. I do not know if separate issue. Laid up all weekend with bronchitis. Going to take a cursory look in a few minutes before daylight runs out. Going to look at schematic again to see how pump ties in.
Isolates to bundle at battery at connection block to DVM. Should be simple rework. I am going to search some heavy duty well insulated connector blocks and redo everything around battery then point to point to horns and such this winter.
And yes ... The fuel pump is indeed on the signal fuse hot. Just checked Haynes again. I was looking at fuel reserve which is not on same fuse. Fun time learning this bike. Just took a short ride after bolstering up the connections to dvm and lights. Did perfectly. Smiling again!