Hey group,
what do you think would be a good starter bike for a first time rider?
My son-in-law wants to learn how to ride street bikes and has asked me to help him out.
he did ride some dirt riding many years ago on small stuff like rm80 when he was 10.
he weighs in about 250 lbs. and is actually some what intelligent.
opinions welcome.
Mark. That is one loaded question! Hay how about a Honda BlackBird ;). Back to the real world depending how much he wants to spend somthing like a Suzuki 600 Bandit or Katana or anything in that class of ride would be my first choises if I was to do it again.
A YZF600 similar to what I ride has very user friendly power, esp for a 600.Mine has no problem towing my 270 lb carcass around. The Ergos are also fairly upright and all day comfortable.
The YZF600R went unchanged from 1999-2007, and was subject to only small changes from the 1997 - 1998 model. The 95-96 model Like mine or Jons was also similar but parts are getting scarce.
I'll echo what the others have said, he's a big fella, so I don't think a 600 will scare him. That newer Suzuki, I think it replaced the bandit seems nice. Ergos like the bandit with swoopy gsxr body work. My friend has one and he likes it. On the other hand, the less body work the better.
Don't discount the Ninja 250. It goes better than what most people think.
Tons of them out there with low miles and fairly cheap. Hold their resale value since they do so well for new riders.
The bike does fine on the freeway and tops out at 100mph. If you get one, put stiffer fork springs in it. The stock ones are way too soft for anyone over 120lbs.
Quote from: tqmx1 on February 26, 2009, 12:01:07 PM
Mark. That is one loaded question! Hay how about a Honda BlackBird ;). Back to the real world depending how much he wants to spend somthing like a Suzuki 600 Bandit or Katana or anything in that class of ride would be my first choises if I was to do it again.
It is hard to answer. Some people could start on anything and some don't belong on 2 wheels period.. I just tell people the smallest lightest thing you can ride comfortably not over 600cc. And depending on the 600 that could be too much. GS500 or EX500 twins would be reasonable first street bikes. If the person is tall and not inclined to ride the interstate a DS thumper like KLR/DR might be good.
with a dirt bike background something like the DRZ400S/SM would be a great choice..... very familiar feeling to someone coming from the dirt.... nice high vantage point for seeing traffic (very important for a new street rider) lightweight and there are plenty of mods to hop up performance as experience increases... and dog gone it they are just plain fun ;D
ii will average 45-50 mpg and thats with plenty of wheelies,stoppies and general hooliganizm :o
a spring upgrade would probably be necessary for someone over 250 but thats reasonable enough to fit into anyone's budget considering the payback in ride /handling.
KOokaloo!
Frank
Thanks for the input guys,
I'll check my local area and see whats out there for cheap. Trying to keep cost at about 1000. so he still has money for gear. so probably a much older bike like a ltd , gs, xs, or cb.
I have a old cb900 that I gave to a friend about 9 years ago and he let it sit and die. I could revive it ,but I think it would be way too much bike for a newbie.
don't forget about the old standards. what about old Honda CB 500,750's?
or the old Yamaha XS 650 or perhaps a seca or seca2 600 as well...lots of good bikes out there. also the old Honda rebels, i think came in 250,400 and 550? cant remember.
anyway good luck finding a proper ride ;D
OGmudbone
John,
my wife used to ride a 250 rebel it was so slow but a good chick bike.
a guy would out grow it in a mater of hours.
If a cruiser is wanted everyone makes those now. The whole fricken industry went Harley clone. The super funny part is as usual the Asian bike offerings are so much better than the "hogs". Hog is a proper name isn't it? They are pigs to work on. LOL
I like Harley I really do, but unless you want to work on it once a week and be severely underpowered whats the point?
OGmudbone
Hey Mark! Long time no speak. I say the XS650. Big surprise huh? They're fun, cool, and a whole lot easier to learn basic mechanics than the FJ or almost anything. The Honda CX500 is also loads of fun and is almost as cool.
Mark,
The Brit mags rave on about Susy SV 650s and Kawasaki En650s as being really fun, not so intimidating learner fodder that can keep even advanced riders entertained as well.
See you at the WCR
Andy French
Becuase he's got a dirtbike background, I'd skip the usual "learner" bikes, which are pretty boring in a hurry.
What does he want? If he wants something to corner with or something to accelerate with, or a dual sport, or something to tour with dad on?
An SV650 is a good starter. Honestly though, if he's got some knowledge of riding and enough size to handle a larger bike, he may as well start with something that he well likes. You can get out of control on a GS500 or EX250 in the same way you can lose control of a Busa, it starts with respecting the capabilities of the machine.
If he wants a cruiser or touring type bike, I'd absolutely look for something with shaft drive, also. It's easy to "forget" to maintain a chain as a newish rider....
Quote from: Ratchet_72 on March 02, 2009, 08:03:36 PM
Hey Mark! Long time no speak. I say the XS650. Big surprise huh? They're fun, cool, and a whole lot easier to learn basic mechanics than the FJ or almost anything. The Honda CX500 is also loads of fun and is almost as cool.
whassup.
I hear ya about the xs650, that's what I started my wifes brother on when he was 16 ,then moved to a cb750 then a gs550 now he rides a r6. I'm trying to find a bike that is more of a standard style with just enough power to scare him.
Quote from: andyoutandabout on March 02, 2009, 08:15:09 PM
Mark,
The Brit mags rave on about Susy SV 650s and Kawasaki En650s as being really fun, not so intimidating learner fodder that can keep even advanced riders entertained as well.
See you at the WCR
Andy French
Andy, I wanna keep the cost around 1000. so an older bike would be best, and when he outgrows it can trade up to something he will keep for a while.
looking forward to seeing you at the rally as well.
Quote from: andyb on March 02, 2009, 10:18:29 PM
Becuase he's got a dirtbike background, I'd skip the usual "learner" bikes, which are pretty boring in a hurry.
What does he want? If he wants something to corner with or something to accelerate with, or a dual sport, or something to tour with dad on?
An SV650 is a good starter. Honestly though, if he's got some knowledge of riding and enough size to handle a larger bike, he may as well start with something that he well likes. You can get out of control on a GS500 or EX250 in the same way you can lose control of a Busa, it starts with respecting the capabilities of the machine.
If he wants a cruiser or touring type bike, I'd absolutely look for something with shaft drive, also. It's easy to "forget" to maintain a chain as a newish rider....
I am ashamed to admit he is wanting more of a cruiser but I plan to move him away from the dark side and into the light. twisties are fun, speed limits are suggestions.
The bike needs to be able to handle 2up riding and still be fun.
Mark,
for about 1000, you might be lucky and find an old CBR600 on craigslist - for example there's a 94 model up for 1300 today. They are easy to work on and there's loads about so no bother finding bits in Rancho Cordova breakers yards.
Andy French
The money is going to be the issue -seems to me. If that's a fairly hard number, than seriously reconsider the Ninja 250. I have one and a GSXR750, and for the type of riding I do (read: not terribly mental) I can ride either bike comfortably when I go for a ride with my buds. Sure they'll walk away from me at the lights, and on long straits, but in anything twisty there is not a lot of difference. Sure you have to thrash it, to get anything close to performance, but it does not seem to mind.
It'll hum along all day long at 90-95 mph and still get 75 mpg. It's fast enough to walk away from 90% of the cars on the road. The bike makes me smile every time I ride it. Mostly because I can actually feel the bikes' limitations, whereas on the GSXR it's crystal clear to me my skills are a fair distance away from that bike's abilities. The little Ninjette continually teaches/ reminds me things I should already know:
1) No one really needs more than this bike.
2) You need to plan way ahead/ anticipate what's next to ride with a group of riders on bigger/ faster bikes
3) Being able to pin the throttle at almost any point in a corner, without horrible effects teaches you an awful lot about throttle control, proper braking, and conserving momentum in a corner.
4) It's simple and cheap to work on and get parts for -thereby providing cost saving as well as rider-machine intimacy -which teaches you invaluable lessons about keeping your machine running.
5) Cheap to insure; (1/2 of what I pay for the Gixxer)
6) Plus there's a load of them out there, I picked up mine; a pristine 2005 example with 43 miles on it -and gummed carbs and a dead battery- for $1600. That evening I had gone through the carbs and it was running like a top before I went to bed.
I can cover 200 miles with my buds on 1000's and 600's and never get separated from them, (nor do they wait for me), -a fact that continually surprises most of them. And all the while, it'll still get 70 mpg -despite thrashing the living shit out of it. I can almost skip an entire fuel stop on longer rides. Although I've never tried, I'm guessing that if I rode this bike conservatively, it'd get 85+ mpg.
I'm a big fan of this little bike, if you can get away from the ego that has an awful lot of people buying bikes bigger stronger faster than they actually need, it's a sensible buy -and not just for beginners.
Last point; if he's never ridden on the street before, there's a fairly high likelihood the bike will be dropped in the first year or two seems to me. That too will teach him many lessons. My point is that 1st bike motorcycle selection should be influenced by this likelihood -although it almost universally is not. -This is true no matter what he actually gets.
Good luck!
Mark makes some good points. I'm especially pleased to read that Dan has such good things to say about the Ninja 250, since we just bought one for my girlfriend to ride. (Boone - doubtful. But Tellico - perhaps.)
I'll add that $1,000 these days doesn't seem to be quite enough for a bike that runs well enough to suit a new rider. A new-rider bike really needs to start, idle, shift, run, fuel itself, brake, charge itself, light its lights, and blink its blinkers in dependable fashion. $1,000 bikes these days are usually too old and decrepit to do all those things without making a new rider wonder "is it SUPPOSED to be like that? Did I do something wrong? Am I going to crash now?"
$1,000 is enough to buy a motorcycle the same way $15,000 is enough to buy an airplane. It's "enough" in that "there are some for sale at that price." However, those are almost always going to be the old ones that have fundamental issues. An old one with issues is the LAST thing a newbie needs.
$1,000 these days seems to be about what it takes to duplicate either of my 1970's air-cooled parallel-twins these days. My XS650 and KZ750 were neat bikes when I owned them, but even as 10-year-old bikes they were fraught with mechanical and electrical issues. I can't imagine the remaining examples have gotten reliable in the last 20 years. As much as I love the power and comfort of the FJ, my favorite thing about it is that it has never required me to say the word "stator" out loud.
$1,000 is a good figure for "buying a suitable bike, riding it a while, and selling it next year so that my total cost for having owned it was less than $1,000." But that means you buy a $3,000 bike that needs nothing, and sell it as a $2,000 bike that needs two tires and a front blinker. It's a rare bike that sells for $1,000 and can provide a suitable motorcycle learning experience for someone who would fall over if it the engine suddenly quits off-idle.
Inexpensive cruisers - I always liked the Intruders. John (the Beer Scientist) has had good luck with his Maxims and seems to enjoy his Virago.
But, like someone with $15,000 to spend to spend on their first airplane or $500 to spend on their first sailboat, I would tell your son-in-law who has $1,000 to spend on his first motorcycle, "That's not enough - it's maybe halfway enough, if not one-third."
Most of us could get a satisfactory riding experience from a $1,000 bike. But if someone tries to learn to ride by buying their first bike for $1,000, chances are it'll be their last bike.
Quote from: Bill_Rockoff on March 04, 2009, 07:30:40 AM
I'll add that $1,000 these days doesn't seem to be quite enough for a bike that runs well enough to suit a new rider...
If the new rider is a budding mc fanatic like most of us here, that's not true. When I was a young broke guy I got my first motorcycle for free. It was a lightly wrecked CB450 nighthawk. I was totally consumed by the thought of riding a street bike and went through all kinds of pre-ebay junkyard hell to get that thing going again. I rode it way before it was ready to be back on the road. learned things like: Always park at the top of a hill. Get home before dark cause your lights are "blinky". Try to stay < 63mph which is where the wobble gets bad.
otoh, if the first time rider is not a self-motivated type. Not the kind that eats, sleeps and dreams of riding, aka wife/girlfriend you are trying to get interested, then you are right. They'll be high-maintenance prima donas and will want things like straight forks and reliable starting/idling, lights that always work, etc. ;D
well , I am not sure he will be a m/c nut like most of us. reliability will be a major factor of the bike and if we end up working on the bike it will be father/son in law special time.
for those of you with married daughters you know what I am talking about.
so for a 1000. I can get my moneys worth and bond a bit.
Hell, my first bike was an XS400 that needed a crapload of work. Cost me $150 to buy, and about the same to make safe/reliable.
What's more important is that it taught me how to fix common issues and gave me a good chance to go through and make sure everything really DID work before riding it much. If he wants a cruiser type, that's cool, but maybe something dirt cheap to start with is the best bet. Parts are cheaper, and so on and so forth--and odds are it'll break a lever, turn lamps, and handlebars at some point or another.
Get yer crashing done as cheaply as you can!
The Honda Magna of the late 90s variety is a pretty decent bike for a cruiser, 80 HP and chain drive. Some different bars and a few tweaks and IMHO it's a pretty decent bike with good ergos for a newbie. Can't argue with the SM and 600 stuff either, a cheap pick is a 600 with rashed bodywork, do the street fighter trick to it and ride it like you stole it.
Quote from: andyb on March 04, 2009, 02:08:36 PM
Hell, my first bike was an XS400 that needed a crapload of work. Cost me $150 to buy, and about the same to make safe/reliable.
What's more important is that it taught me how to fix common issues and gave me a good chance to go through and make sure everything really DID work before riding it much. If he wants a cruiser type, that's cool, but maybe something dirt cheap to start with is the best bet. Parts are cheaper, and so on and so forth--and odds are it'll break a lever, turn lamps, and handlebars at some point or another.
Get yer crashing done as cheaply as you can!
that's the whole idea. ;)
Having cheered for the Ninjette, I will say that my first bike was an '82 Yamaha 550 Maxim. Great bike, ran like a top for the two years I rode it. A pretty competent UJM, near as I could tell at the time.
Here's on on fleabay that's strikingly like the one I owned:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-Maxim-1982-Yamaha-Maxim-XJ-550_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a3Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem320346346610QQitemZ320346346610QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-Maxim-1982-Yamaha-Maxim-XJ-550_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a3Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem320346346610QQitemZ320346346610QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles)
Still, looks like it'll go for +/- $1200...
Dan
that looks like a decent bike but it is a bit far away for me, i'm sure i will find a local bike.
I have owned more than 15 bikes in my day and have a knack for getting a good deal.
Mark there is an FJ in Oakdale...that's about 90 min's from you ..maybe less depending on how close you are to the 99. i think its in the bikes for sale list on the group here. let me know what area your in as i have some free time to do nothing a few days a week i can dedicate some time to trying to find you a suitable steed.
OGmudbone
AKA
John
The son in law is not ready for an fj, not yet at least.
I have a line on a local bike I think will do nicely.
Right on, good to know you have found a suitable pony ;D
OGmudbone
aka
John
Mark, Keep looking Jason just picked up the GS for his wife.
That figures, It was a great deal, ya snooze ya loose.
Mark, my offer still stands, i will help you hunt if you want me to.
OGmudbone
Quote from: Dan Filetti on March 04, 2009, 12:07:52 AM
the Ninja 250. you have to thrash it, to get anything close to performance, but it does not seem to mind. 75 mpg. It's fast enough to walk away from 90% of the cars on the road. The bike makes me smile every time I ride it.
I'll be trying this baby out after Boone. I'm really looking forward to it :good2:
(http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/43967/2302599370068526197S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2302599370068526197RQNHDL)
I really like the redesign of the 250.
One thing to remember is to keep the revvs up. Usually above 4k to get any kind of power, although I haven't ridden a new one yet. Don't worry about running it up to 10+k, as you're not on a FJ. :D
Also they don't like to sit for extended periods of time. The jets in the carbs are damn small and will clog very easy.
I have the previous gen 250, -total smiles machine!!! Love it, and it has little problem hanging with the big boys in anything other than super-slab. Revs need to be kept north of 12K to really be considered anything other than marginal. Fun nonetheless.
Have fun.
Dan
I rode the ZX 2.5 today... after 70,000 miles on nothing but the FJ. OMFG!!
IT'S A FUCKING SPEED FREAK!!! GET ONE!!!
Oh yeah Fred got a new ZX-14, too :sarcastic:
(http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/45595/2451665060068526197S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2451665060068526197pZVSBn)
(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/38963/2015169910068526197S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2015169910068526197qtgcda)
(http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/30821/2076264600068526197S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2076264600068526197IDNvWt)
Now you know why I prefer a 600... Small bikes are fun. Plain and simple.
Yeah, no doubt! I am definitely WAY faster on the Ninjer than the FJ. Wouldnt be much fun to commute on though. 6th gear, 55mph= 7000+rpm. And passing traffic can suck at times.
... thats got me thinking, what (and where) are the smallest "full size" streetable sportbikes that can be had? I remember seeing some trick european machines, but where made of unobtanium..
~wasn't there a kinda-popular 80cc cafe racer back in the 80's?
KOOKALOO! :good2:
Well, probably not the 'smallest', but ......
Cagiva makes/made the "Mito", a 125cc 2-stroke single. with full fairing. It looks almost identical to the Ducati 916. I think one of the US list FJ'ers has one but I'm not sure who.
There are also a number of 125cc hot 2-strokes RZ, RG etc that are or were in common use by new "learner" riders in UK.
I don't know what bike you're referring to in the '80's, but Kreidler made a 75cc Sachs engined bike back in the late 60's early 70's that screamed.
There are also some 3/4 (or so) sized "learn to road race" bikes that have an international competition set up.
Cheers,
Arnie
my friend Mark has an Aprilia RS50 its full size and with a 80cc red head big bore kit/flatslide carb and Arrow exhaust its capable of 70mph on flat and level ground.
KOokaloo!