Hi, I have a problem with the gearbox on my new to me 1987 FJ1200. It's only got 35k miles on it genuine. It jumps out of first gear at around 5000rpm or when accelerating hard. When it's in neutral and on the side stand it makes a really bad knock or rattle which seems to be coming from around the gearbox. If I have the bike upright it sounds fine and as soon as I tilt it over to the left it starts rattling and knocking. If I put it into any gear and hold the clutch it doesn't make the noise when I tilt it. It drives well apart from the problem in first and the engine sounds good.
A local garage said the problem lies with the selector forks or the first gear cog and it's rubbing off another cog when tilted over. They quoted me 300 on labour plus parts to fix it.
What do you guys think to that? Has anyone else had this problem?
Yes, I've been there. Yes, you have bent shift forks. Yes, it is expensive. Sorry.
If you're going to fix this, or have some else do it, you need to get an undercut transmission. Don't fool around with some gears, do the whole thing. Do all 3 shift forks too. Otherwise, you get to do it again.
Don't ask me how I know.
Quote from: simi_ed on March 30, 2017, 05:13:53 PM
Yes, I've been there. Yes, you have bent shift forks. Yes, it is expensive. Sorry.
If you're going to fix this, or have some else do it, you need to get an undercut transmission. Don't fool around with some gears, do the whole thing. Do all 3 shift forks too. Otherwise, you get to do it again.
Don't ask me how I know.
words of wisdom right there
Thanks for the reply. So I'm looking at a complete gearbox replacement.. I don't have the funds to get an undercut transmission so I'm looking for a used gearbox from another bike. Will any year gearbox work in my bike or does it have to be a 1tx box? Does the engine have to be completely split for the job or just partially? I've seen a bottom end gasket set for sale..
The transmission will interchange, but the shift forks are upgraded in later models. Where are you located?
Quote from: jscgdunn on March 31, 2017, 08:21:55 AM
The transmission will interchange, but the shift forks are upgraded in later models. Where are you located?
Oh yeah...and the cases do need to be split
Thanks, I've picked up a second hand complete gearbox from another 1to including selector forks so that should sort it. I'm in Ireland.
It probably would be worthwhile to put the later shift forks in as they are the weak point.
Quote from: mo123 on March 31, 2017, 02:04:14 AM
Thanks for the reply. So I'm looking at a complete gearbox replacement.. I don't have the funds to get an undercut transmission so I'm looking for a used gearbox from another bike. Will any year gearbox work in my bike or does it have to be a 1tx box? Does the engine have to be completely split for the job or just partially? I've seen a bottom end gasket set for sale..
Why spend a couple hundred extra bucks to do it right the first time..... when you can do it a second time?
As Ed has already told you do it right the first time or be prepared to waste your time and money to do it right the second time.
Do your self a favor and wait a couple weeks to save up the extra cash to do it properly.
:Facepalm:
The upgraded NEW shift forks are a small price to pay for many years of trouble free shifting.
Here are the shift forks to order.
Shift Fork - Left (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=3XW-18511-00)
Shift Fork - Center (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4KG-18512-00)
Shift Fork - Right (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=3XW-18513-00)
Fred
Quote from: mo123 on March 31, 2017, 08:49:26 AM
Thanks, I've picked up a second hand complete gearbox from another 1to including selector forks so that should sort it. I'm in Ireland.
Wow! Fundamentally bad choice!
Are the dogs worn on this used trans? If so, you just took your
POS and installed somebody else's
POS. How about the bearings? Same goes here. Used shift forks? :mocking:
I did something similar, got to do it over again. I only fixed the rounded 2nd gear. The first time I gave WOT in 1st gear, that fork failed, rounding the dogs & bending the 1st gear fork (OK, it was one of Randy's hot rod 1314cc motors ...) Motor back out, upside down. Gut bottom end, split cases. Replace bent fork and entire gear set with undercut gears. Reassemble & reinstall! Problem solved, even with (hotter) 1350 motor and WOT in 1st or 2nd gear. Don't be as
stupid foolish as I was, you'll regret it!
It's your bike, it, your money & your time so you can make your own decisions ... I have nothing more to say. :unknown:
Doing all that just isn't an option at the moment. Would I be better off trying to get shift forks from a later model? The one I got only had 30k on it and was working perfectly. Is it that common for them to go? Am I more than likely going to have the same problem later on? Should I see if I can cancel the order and pick up a later model gearbox and forks?
Quote from: mo123 on March 31, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Doing all that just isn't an option at the moment. Would I be better off trying to get shift forks from a later model? The one I got only had 30k on it and was working perfectly. Is it that common for them to go? Am I more than likely going to have the same problem later on? Should I see if I can cancel the order and pick up a later model gearbox and forks?
IMHO you'd be better off sucking it up and riding 'as is' until you can do it right. If you can bail out of the order of the 1TX parts that'd be great.
Don't waste your time & money doing it half-assed. Any pre '92 parts are suspect, I believe. I'd also say any and all used shift forks are a poor bet.
Do it once, do it right!
You would be better served riding as is and saving the money to do it properly. I wouldn't suggest putting a used transmission in it at all. Was this motor flogged, missed shifts? Did the motor blow up and got something in the gears possibly damaging a tooth? Was the transmission screwed up and replaced and is now being sold as a "good" used transmission? Does the person selling this transmission even know what to look for on the pinions and wheels to tell if they are damaged or worn already?
Robert - RPM
Leopard? Just wondering ...
Quote from: mo123 on March 31, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Is it that common for them to go? Am I more than likely going to have the same problem later on? Should I see if I can cancel the order and pick up a later model gearbox and forks?
If you can not buy new parts...... My answer to your questions are....
Yes, ....... Is it common for them to go?
All 1984-1987 FJ transmissions have a known issue with weak shift forks. Specially 2nd gearYes, ....... Am I more than likely going to have the same problem later on?
You are looking at a used gearbox from the exact same generation as what you have. The likelihood is very high.Yes, ....... Should I see if I can cancel the order and pick up a later model gearbox and forks?
The shift forks were upgrade for the 1988 model year and later. The models to source a gearbox from are the
3CV/3CW, and the 3YA/3XW Ed has said it twice, I am going to say it a third time. Do Not Install A Used 1TX Gearbox and Shift Forks.
You have to tear the engine down to fix your problem. You have stated that you can not afford all new parts. Be more selective and locate a good used gearbox from a 3CV/3CW or 3YA/3XW. If possible buy the new shift forks from RPM. $135.00USD for the set of 3 is money well spent. Like Ed mentioned.....This is a time consuming and expensive fix to do once. If you cut corners, (install a 1TX gearbox and used shift forks) there is a high probability that 2-5 years down the road you will have to do it again.
If you are dead set about installing the used 1TX gearbox and shift forks.......At least shit can the used shift forks and install a new set of 3.
Fred
I thought I was under pressure to do it asap in case I did any further damage riding it as-is. I've already gotten used to going easy on first and getting into second quickly to avoid it jumping. It feels ok in all other gears. If that's the case then I will save up and do it right..
My '86 has this problem in 2nd gear. I shift early into third, been doing it for over 10 years with no additional problems. I just too damn cheap to fix it. Besides, Kokaloo happens in third as you hit redline....
That's reassuring, does yours make the same rattle in neutral when leaned over to the side? Got out of the deal with the other 1tx box BTW.
Quote from: mo123 on March 31, 2017, 02:11:25 PM
I thought I was under pressure to do it asap in case I did any further damage riding it as-is. I've already gotten used to going easy on first and getting into second quickly to avoid it jumping. It feels ok in all other gears. If that's the case then I will save up and do it right..
The rattle is probably as described by your local shop. The gears are rubbing when the clutch is engaged and the bike is parked on side stand. Simple fix, don't do that! Put it on center stand when starting, then ride away. I'll bet that a prolonged idling session with the gear rubbing and clunking/rubbing will wear material away that will get circulated in your oil. :bad:
Stay off the throttle and short shift 1st gear, no aggressive downshifts into 1st. Don't idle on the sidestand. Avoid the issue by outsmarting the problem, until you're in a position to do a proper fix.
Any noise during idle on the side stand or center stand is the starter chain rattle. My '89 has the same noise, keeping the idle up around 1100 and enjoy the engine talking to you.
Quote from: simi_ed on March 31, 2017, 01:42:57 PM
Leopard? Just wondering ...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Yer killin' me, Ed.
WARNING! I want to put out a warning on riding with a bad second gear. About 27 years ago On my 85 fj1100 the secondgear started to jump out on hard aceleration and some wheelie. after a time it got worse but i ignored it and just ride the bike .Then one day i crashed in a left cornering because the rear wheel locked up.I was lucky and did not get any bad injuries.When i had picked up the bike again i realized that the gearbox was blown as it was impossible to get it in any gear included freegear. I had to come back later and pick up the bike with a van to get it home.
I got it repaired by a very good road racing mecanic at half the price of what yamaha wanted.The gearbox worked perfect for many years after that.
So riding with a bad secondgear is risky.
Quote from: mo123 on March 31, 2017, 08:49:26 AM
Thanks, I've picked up a second hand complete gearbox from another 1to including selector forks so that should sort it. I'm in Ireland.
You probably would better off finding a 3XW or 3CV transmission. At least those were built later after some of the bugs has been works out of the 1100 and 1TX.
The shift forks you got with the used 1TX transmission are the old style, short design. they flexed excessively and was the reason the gear box had problems. The shift forks Fred has already listed above are the current shift forks used in the XJR1300. The latest and greatest, not 30+ years old...
Ed do you still have the photos of your trans that we replaced? I thought I had them, but I cannot find them.
It has already been said many times, do it one and do it right. if you short cut this job you will not be happy with the results.
Randy - RPM
Hi Randy, thanks for that. Would a set of shift forks for a '98-'01 xjr 1300 work? I have a lead on a set not too far away that came out of one with 20k miles on it. I'll wait until I can get a known good gearbox from a very late FJ1200 before I do the work as well and look into getting the dogs undercut locally. In the meantime I'll go easy on the bike, especially in first.
Quote from: mo123 on April 03, 2017, 03:37:51 AM
Would a set of shift forks for a '98-'01 xjr 1300 work?
Will they work...
Yes,
but...
I do not know if they are the best/latest/current design produced today.
Your best bet on forks is new as everyone has already mentioned...
And FYI, the XJR1200/XJR1300 transmissions will not work. The output shaft is 8mm longer.
It will be interesting to see first gear when you take out the transmission. If the gear is installed backwards, it will not properly engage and jump out of gear as you describe. Take some photos when you take it apart.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on April 03, 2017, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: mo123 on April 03, 2017, 03:37:51 AM
Would a set of shift forks for a '98-'01 xjr 1300 work?
Will they work...
Yes, but...
I do not know if they are the best/latest/current design produced today.
Your best bet on forks is new as everyone has already mentioned...
And FYI, the XJR1200/XJR1300 transmissions will not work. The output shaft is 8mm longer.
It will be interesting to see first gear when you take out the transmission. If the gear is installed backwards, it will not properly engage and jump out of gear as you describe. Take some photos when you take it apart.
Randy - RPM
Ok mo or 123 or Mope,
You heard from the collective wisdom of many FJ owners with years of experience, you've heard from
The Expert, Randy and still you want to go your own way. What gives? Do you think we're are bullshitting you? Do you think you're smarter that the rest of us? Or are you just going to keep asking until we all admit 'Owww shucks, we were just kidding'.
You came soliciting advice; asked and answered.
Repeatedly.
Stop asking!!! And agree to follow the recommendations! Or just stop asking for validation and do your own thing.
I'll be happy to rub it in later when it goes awry! :rofl2: :good: :sarcastic: :dance2:
Quote from: simi_ed on March 31, 2017, 12:22:00 PM
Quote from: mo123 on March 31, 2017, 08:49:26 AM
Thanks, I've picked up a second hand complete gearbox from another 1to including selector forks so that should sort it. I'm in Ireland.
Wow! Fundamentally bad choice!
Are the dogs worn on this used trans? If so, you just took your POS and installed somebody else's POS. How about the bearings? Same goes here. Used shift forks? :mocking:
I did something similar, got to do it over again. I only fixed the rounded 2nd gear. The first time I gave WOT in 1st gear, that fork failed, rounding the dogs & bending the 1st gear fork (OK, it was one of Randy's hot rod 1314cc motors ...) Motor back out, upside down. Gut bottom end, split cases. Replace bent fork and entire gear set with undercut gears. Reassemble & reinstall! Problem solved, even with (hotter) 1350 motor and WOT in 1st or 2nd gear. Don't be as stupid foolish as I was, you'll regret it!
It's your bike, it, your money & your time so you can make your own decisions ... I have nothing more to say. :unknown:
THREAD BUMP* I have had several people calling about replacing a single shift fork or only transmission or only shift forks only as of late.