A quick lunchtime check of privately-held motorcycles posted on the local Craigslist, for just today only:
Harley: 49
Suzuki: 13
Yamaha: 22
Honda: 42
Kawasaki: 15
Thinking all years and models, for all brands... Honda bikes for sale are low. Harley, has/had, like how many models in its line up since it's inception in 1903?
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 20, 2017, 12:54:26 PM
Harley, has/had, like how many models in its line up since it's inception in 1903?
No good answer for that question ... everytime they chrome something or black something out it is a new model! Or if they change the stitching on the seat! Or if they delete the pee-pad for the passenger! Or if they...
...oh, but it's a life style :rofl:
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 20, 2017, 12:54:26 PMA quick lunchtime check of privately-held motorcycles posted on the local Craigslist, for just today only:
Harley: 49 Suzuki: 13 Yamaha: 22 Honda: 42 Kawasaki: 15
Thinking all years and models, for all brands... Honda bikes for sale are low. Harley, has/had, like how many models in its line up since it's inception in 1903?
It's not really a fair comparison, unless you also know how many bikes of each brand are in active use, in that sales area. If there are a bazillion Hondas or Yamahas, then those numbers are low. If there are very few of any one brand there, and half of them are for sale, that would look bad. Stored bikes that an aging owner will not sell should not be counted, in either column.
My $.02 worth.
I work at a dealership, and we looked at a 2003 Suzuki Intruder 800 that the owner wanted to trade. After riding it, even with flat tires and gummy carbs, I was somewhat impressed by the power it produced.
Later in the afternoon, we took in a very nice Super Glide. I had to ride it, and guess what -
It's a dud compared to the Intruder - even with the displacement advantage, the intruder would leave it for dead from a performance standpoint.
The difference shocked me, I expected more from the Harley.
I guess more weight is all you get.....
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 20, 2017, 12:54:26 PM
Harley, has/had, like how many models in its line up since it's inception in 1903?
According to Wikipedia Harley has have just over 100 different models since its inception in 1903.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Harley-Davidson_motorcycles
By comparison Honda has had approximately 275 different models since it's inception in 1949.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Honda_motorcycles.
:shok:
Here's another question: How many different engines has Harley vs Honda produced?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 23, 2017, 11:06:59 AM
Here's another question: How many different engines has Harley vs Honda produced?
Harley approximately 35 different engines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_engine_timeline
Honda???????? Tough one to answer. No quick google answers on that one.
A couple more Hardly Ableson posts and we will have to add a Harley section. Still have a FXSTD. No not a sexually transmitted disease--a softtail Deuce. Only bought it because like my women-- it was cheap and pretty. :biggrin:
Dave
You like your women loud, shaky and incontinent too, eh?
Quote from: TexasDave on March 23, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
Only bought it because like my women-- it was cheap and pretty. :biggrin:
Dave
Quote from: Zwartie on March 23, 2017, 05:40:25 PM
You like your women loud, shaky and incontinent too, eh?
Quote from: TexasDave on March 23, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
Only bought it because like my women-- it was cheap and pretty. :biggrin:
Dave
:rofl2: :rofl2: Actually the Hardly surprised me. Pipes not as loud as some of the women. No vibration as the mirrors are clear at all speeds and doesn't leak any oil after I replaced all the primary drive case seals. P/O had let it sit for four years before I bought it cheap.
Quote from: Zwartie on March 23, 2017, 05:40:25 PM
You like your women loud, shaky and incontinent too, eh?
Quote from: TexasDave on March 23, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
Only bought it because like my women-- it was cheap and pretty. :biggrin:
Dave
...overweight and flashy?
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 20, 2017, 12:54:26 PM
A quick lunchtime check of privately-held motorcycles posted on the local Craigslist, for just today only:
Harley: 49
Suzuki: 13
Yamaha: 22
Honda: 42
Kawasaki: 15
Thinking all years and models, for all brands... Honda bikes for sale are low. Harley, has/had, like how many models in its line up since it's inception in 1903?
Copied today from CycleTrader- Brand and number of bikes listed for sale today on CycleTrader
MAKE SELECT ALL
TOP MAKES
Aprilia (709)
Arctic Cat (1)
BMW (5,927)
Can-Am (6,050)
Ducati (4,939)
Harley-Davidson (51,347)
Honda (40,281)
Indian (4,196)
KTM (7,253)
Kawasaki (33,436)
Kymco (1,375)
Polaris (49)
Qlink (3)
Ski-Doo (2)
Suzuki (23,206)
Triumph (7,271)
Victory (4,178)
Yamaha (38,616)
The only conclusion I can draw is that none of this means anything at all. Can't wait for the weather in New England to break. Time to ride!
Quote from: Rich Pleines on March 24, 2017, 01:07:51 PM
The only conclusion I can draw is that none of this means anything at all...
FY 2016 US HD Sales = 161,658 HD Stats (https://www.statista.com/statistics/252220/worldwide-motorcycle-retail-sales-of-harley-davidson/). Compared to used bikes for sale
just on that CycleTrader listing (51,347) that's 31% of their total US output with a 35% market share (https://www.statista.com/statistics/252210/market-share-of-major-motorcycle-manufacturers-in-the-us/). Yes different years, unscientific, etc, but not insignificant.
I've tried getting new sales numbers for Hon-Yam-Kaw who have a cumulative market share of 38%, for a straight comparison but can't seem to find any.... :scratch_one-s_head:
Though HD still commands the single most market share, cumulatively they are slowly bleeding out by a 1000 cuts. There's more to it than just sales numbers. Maybe some HD owners are ditching them for the new water/oil cooled models coming out. The graying market is getting too old to ride anymore on something nearing 1/2 ton. Younger people are just not getting into motorcycling as much as a whole, and if they are they certainly aren't buying HD's. I've read their sales are up, but then so is everyone else's.
And lets face it - If they continue with what is basically one model dressed up in different clothes, (no offence to HD owners present here :flag_of_truce:) their share will continue to shrink. There was a time long ago when they had singles (not the Aermacchi takeover in the 70's), even a boxer engine (https://www.google.ca/search?q=harley+davidson+boxer+twin&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK486IuPDSAhVH64MKHTQgA0sQsAQIJg&biw=1366&bih=673#imgrc=_) (transverse & in-line). They actually had an innovative corporate culture at one time. For decades now they have locked themselves into a manufactured "tradition" which has served them well in the short term, but will kill them in the end. It would be nice to see them get all daring and introduce a V4. Proof in the pudding - the VMax. Still in production after 32yrs! Why not something to compete with that?
They are trying to introduce those baby HDs to draw in new buyers for the HD "experience". If they could focus on the bike and not on the experience, they might get more customers. I was reading they actually dialled in vibration to their new models because their prototypes were
TOO SMOOTH when given to focus groups for test rides. If they continue to try and satisfy the traditional customer they will never increase their base. I can see in the future where they will go begging to the feds to restrict foreign imports (like they did in the '80's) to get their shit together.
Sorry for the rant, I've been up for 30hrs straight again, and the weather sucks. Just an opinion of a sensory deranged (
insert adjective here). :morning2:
Quote from: PaulG on March 24, 2017, 09:33:26 PM
......I was reading they actually dialled in vibration to their new models because their prototypes were TOO SMOOTH.....
I wonder if they dialled in poor brakes, lousy suspension, oil leaks, no performance, lethal handling, no ground clearance and dodgy reliability for the same reason.
Dialling in vibrations because that's what the customer wants??
Sounds like something the marketing dept would come up with, not engineering. :biggrin:
IMO
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on March 25, 2017, 01:00:06 AM
I wonder if they dialled in poor brakes, lousy suspension, oil leaks, no performance, lethal handling, no ground clearance and dodgy reliability
Ask, and Ye shall receive... :good2: (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16675.msg168510;topicseen#msg168510)
in drag racing , Harley is impressive. That 2 cylinders can get as much speed, etc as 4. Don't think much of that engine is stock, tho.
I am not a Harley fan at all. My take is Harley is for dumbasses. People that don't know much about bikes like Harley. Or image conscious people. My Mom likes Harley. She is 92.
My dad worked assembling them in the Milwaukee plant after WW2 while going to school. I fixed their flagpole on top of the plant while going to school in Milwaukee-1980- as I was a flagpole repairman.