After looking through a few past discussions on availability of 16 inch tires I went shopping this morning. To my disappointment the Avon AV45s and 46s are no longer available and most brands only offer either the 150/80v16 rear or 120/80v16 front but not both. Fortunately the Pirelli Sport Demon is available in both front and back (thanks to AviationFred for the link at Motorcycle Superstore) but even those look to be almost out of stock. If you have an 84 or 85 with the 16 inch tires I recommend you stock up now.
Or bite the bullet and upgrade to 17"...
Avon have replaced AV46 with the new 3D Ultra Xtreme, available in 150/80/16. The problem is the front, yes
Dont fot that Pirelli Demons. Thats the worst tyre that you could fit. It was excellent 30 years ago in my RD 350, but those were a bad election even then fitted in our FJ. The tyre flex even at moderate speeds and destroys the handling
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 02, 2016, 10:53:52 PM
Or bite the bullet and upgrade to 17"...
Or jack up the gas cap, and put a bike under it that already has 17" wheels on it. :rofl:
Randy spoke with Avon recently and he told me Avon probably will make the 120/80-16 in the 3D Ultra Extreme but were waiting for the AV45 front to run out first.
Still listed at American Motorcycle Tire- AV45 front $110 the pic is of a rear tire though
By the time one wears out, we will all know if we have to go to 17".
I got 11,000 mi on my last one, and I just mounted a new AV45.
Just sayin' . . . the stock FJ front forks and brakes are not prizes, either. I'm also not a fan of the stock handlebars. With all the odd parts and pieces needed to make the front wheel become a 17" size, I just want to find a complete and compatible bike front end assembly (wheel, brakes, axle, forks, triple tree, handlebars, brake line, et c.) on eBay. That entire assembly could be a real bargain, and an easy fit, when the time comes. The newer and stronger all that stuff is, the better. Then I can change what goes into the steering head completely, all in one move. I might even spring for that new GPS speedometer, which looks just like a factory stock instrument, while I'm doing this swap. I could sell the leftover parts on eBay too, just to cut down the costs a little more.
16" rear tires are not so scarce, so I could probably hold off changing that part for a good while yet.
Cheers,
Red
Red,
Easiest for your bike would be later model FJ forks and wheel. Later model calipers or blue spots...both work good. I understand forks can be improved quite a bit with cartridges, especially RPM ones. Next easy option is YZF 600 (98 vintage). Triple tree from the 600 is bolt on and forks are cartridge type; in this case you get a 3.5 inch wide wheel. Rear wheel/brake stay from the 600 needs a bit of machining. but you can run 170 tire.
Quote from: Alf on December 03, 2016, 02:27:54 AM
Avon have replaced AV46 with the new 3D Ultra Xtreme, available in 150/80/16. The problem is the front, yes
Dont fot that Pirelli Demons. Thats the worst tyre that you could fit. It was excellent 30 years ago in my RD 350, but those were a bad election even then fitted in our FJ. The tyre flex even at moderate speeds and destroys the handling
I disagree Alf. I found the Sport Demons to work great on my '87 and really liked them. I found them to have great feel, and excellent grip. My only real complaint was that they didn't last very long ( only 4400 miles/7000 KM's).
I can only assume that the difference in our experiences with the Sport Demons, is probably due to our differences in: riding styles, comfort/competency levels, individual weight, suspension setup, and maybe even tire pressures.
:scratch_one-s_head:
Curious,yes!
But that feelings are not only mine. Near every FJ owner that I know in Spain agree with me, because the Demons are the cheapest tyres available and these are the usual fitting in most buyed second-hand FJ. When the owners contact with our group and test another tyres... well, I dont know anyone returning to the Demons (being half of the price of the next cheapest tyre, so it is a BIG incentive)
I would just assume that you probably ride at a higher comfort/competency level than I do Alf. :hi:
As such, you probably would run into the limitations of any tire before I ever would. :good2:
To be clear, I don't question that the tire doesn't meet your needs (obviously by quite a bit.), and as such is an inappropriate choice for you. Nor do I question that many other folks in your local region feel the same way. Tire selection is a bit of a subjective issue. My key point is that even though a certain tire may not be a good choice for some folks, it may be just fine for others.
My key advice to anybody looking for a good tire, is to try as many of the tires out as possible. Eventually you will find what works best for you.
Quote from: FeralRdr on December 06, 2016, 01:28:41 PM
I would just assume that you probably ride at a higher comfort/competency level than I do Alf. :hi:
sorry, but the level is irrelevant, I think. The rear tyre flex above 100-120 kph. And in a panic braking, you NEED the best front tyre available
Quote from: FeralRdr on December 06, 2016, 01:28:41 PM
My key point is that even though a certain tire may not be a good choice for some folks, it may be just fine for others.
I agree with you speaking about modern radial tyres. The differences between i.e. Avon Ultra or Dunlops Streetsmarts are most part of them due to the rider and his level/style of riding, but both are above the level of competence of the 90% of this forum members (or any member of any forum, :biggrin: ), I think. But with a 30 years old design tyre, I'm not so convinced :nea:
Quote from: FeralRdr on December 06, 2016, 01:28:41 PM
My key advice to anybody looking for a good tire, is to try as many of the tires out as possible. Eventually you will find what works best for you.
:good2: :good2:
Quote from: bigbore2 on December 06, 2016, 12:47:28 AM
Randy spoke with Avon recently and he told me Avon probably will make the 120/80-16 in the 3D Ultra Extreme but were waiting for the AV45 front to run out first.
I'd hope that it was about the Avon 3D X-M AV65 in 16" to go with the AV66 for the rear that they already make
Cheers Alan
Speaking of the Avon 3D X-M - I just finished my first season on them, handled well enough and actually wore out the front before the rear, at about 11,500 miles. The front tire has 400 more miles on it but the rear probably has at least another 1-2k before I am down to the wear bars. I was not super heavy on the throttle all the time but this did include two rallies and a lot of touring. I'll be putting them on my bike again for next summer.
And now I know I can not worry about wearing out the rear tire as much :good2:
You can still get BT-45 battleaxe in 16" Are these any good?
The first set of tires I put on my bike after getting it running back in 2006 were the Battleax and they performed well. The tread pattern doesn't look as "sporty" but I never found anything to complain about as far as handling or wear. Just got my Sport Demons delivered. Really like the looks of them but still have plenty of life left in my Avons at the moment.
I never liked the Battleaxes in the wet, so much so, that I took a set off before they were even close to being worn out. You get better mileage with them though, if you wear them to their limits.
I'm pretty much exclusive with the Sport Demons now. Avon Roadriders are a good tire, but the rear seems to evaporate, compared to the Sport Demons, that themselves, wear quickly, at least on the rear.
To each their own. Ride with what makes you happy.
No one uses Metzeler Lasertecs?
I just put a set of Sport Demons on the '94, not gong to do a wheel swap on this bike. So far, they have been good, although I haven't pushed them yet. As long as they are long wearing and provide the grip, I'm happy.
Quote from: whyzee79 on December 07, 2016, 07:25:01 PM
You can still get BT-45 battleaxe in 16" Are these any good?
Bridgestone changed the carcass construction 4 or 5 years ago and those tyres suffer from odd wear: the front had the edges near disintegrated with only 4.000 kms. and the rear get completely squared at 10.000 in my CBX 750, 50 kg. lighter than any FJ.
Instead of steel belt, another metal compound were used in the new carcass, so the heat don't dissipate all over the tyre and the wear is not consistent, that's the info that a professional specialist tyre friend said to me
Try Dunlop StreetSmats: more rigid feeling and consistent wear in my Honda. Excellent tyres, give stability with a great flickability
Quote from: Alf on December 08, 2016, 04:44:34 AM
Quote from: whyzee79 on December 07, 2016, 07:25:01 PM
You can still get BT-45 battleaxe in 16" Are these any good?
Bridgestone changed the carcass construction 4 or 5 years ago and those tyres suffer from odd wear: the front had the edges near disintegrated with only 4.000 kms. and the rear get completely squared at 10.000 in my CBX 750, 50 kg. lighter than any FJ.
Instead of steel belt, another metal compound were used in the new carcass, so the heat don't dissipate all over the tyre and the wear is not consistent, that's the info that a professional specialist tyre friend said to me
Try Dunlop StreetSmats: more rigid feeling and consistent wear in my Honda. Excellent tyres, give stability with a great flickability
Yep, I'm running the Battlax. The wear is just like you said. Especially if you ride a lot on highways.
Can't find the 3D X-M avon for the front as of yet on Ebay. Are they being made yet? I think I will default to a sport demon. I agree with the other member and I will not outride the tire, I just want good grippy wet traction and am not worried about wear as it is a fun bike not a commuter machine.
Quote from: whyzee79 on December 11, 2016, 01:26:16 PM
.... I think I will default to a sport demon...., I just want good grippy wet traction and am not worried about wear as it is a fun bike not a commuter machine.
Grippy?... the Pirelli?.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Quote from: whyzee79 on December 11, 2016, 01:26:16 PM
Can't find the 3D X-M avon for the front as of yet on Ebay. Are they being made yet?
Easy to look up...Here ya go....http://www.avonmoto.com/products/sport-touring/storm-3d-x-m (http://www.avonmoto.com/products/sport-touring/storm-3d-x-m)
For the '89+ later model FJ's, sure....early FJ's not yet, probably never. Besides you really want those cool blue spots anyway...
I had the Pirelli sport deamons and the bike felt very unstable and felt like the frontwheel was going to loose grip in the corners ecpesally when the tire had wear abit.Did not feel secure with that tire.Also it got a strange cupping on frontwheel.I mostly used the Metzeler lasertech and to me that tire is the best for fj.
I feel totally secure in high speeds in both wet and dry .
Ok, I guess the Pirelli tires suck. It came with the metzeler tires but they need replacement. I see the choices as the avon older road rider, BT-45s or the sport demon that everyone thinks suck. I probably can wait till this spring and hope the new avon tire comes out in a 120/16. I'll check on replacement Metzelers. Not interested in doing a 17 conversion at this time but I think the time is coming if finding tires is going to be a pain in the arse. Whats the blue spots? Nube question I think. hahaha.
Quote from: balky1 on December 08, 2016, 02:27:05 AM
No one uses Metzeler Lasertecs?
ive use them now, not wery good but cheap they are for sure
as non radials, wont wear, pretty odd riding feel, rear woud make
odd jumps in cornering, always had to be aware in wet conditions.
btv.compound at tire is wery hard..
hope helps.
Quote from: whyzee79 on December 16, 2016, 12:17:41 PM
Whats the blue spots?
Blue spots are another name we use for the Yamaha monoblock brake calipers used on several Yamaha models, R-1, R-6, FZ-1, etc.
They are superior brakes vs the oem FJ calipers. These blue spots bolt right up to the 1989 and later FJ fork legs, which also uses the 17" front rim.
So....if you put the 1989+ FJ fork legs on your FJ (plug and play) you get both the 17" rim with better selection of tires and you get better brakes...
What's not to love?
Here's my '84 from 12 years ago:
(http://www.fjrally.com/picgallery/gallery%2F2005_West_Coast_Rally%2FRally19.jpg)
Quote from: JOMPPA10 on December 16, 2016, 12:54:41 PM
Quote from: balky1 on December 08, 2016, 02:27:05 AM
No one uses Metzeler Lasertecs?
ive use them now, not wery good but cheap they are for sure
as non radials, wont wear, pretty odd riding feel, rear woud make
odd jumps in cornering, always had to be aware in wet conditions.
btv.compound at tire is wery hard..
hope helps.
How do you mean they are cheap ? i have never experienced odd jumps in cornering even at very high speeds, have you checked your suspension setup and tire pressure? Or mayby bendt rear brake disk ?
Quote from: whyzee79 on December 16, 2016, 12:17:41 PM
Whats the blue spots? Nube question I think. hahaha.
There are also Gold dots and Silver dots. Very minor differences with the Blue dots. They will work on the '88 and later Non anti-dive foks.
My 1987 with 1991 forks and Gold dots.
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on December 16, 2016, 01:38:21 PM
There are also Gold dots and Silver dots. Very minor differences with the Blue dots.
Hi, Fred
In Tenerife, with great use and abuse of the brakes, the gold dots are vastly superior to the blue dots. I upgraded to gold dots merely for a aesthetic question and I was surprised for the great difference
Alf, I've heard the pistons are lighter in the Gold dots....are there any other differences? The monoblock bodies looks the same.
Ok, I'm a little confused as to the blue dots/spots. I have them on my bike and still have the 16" front tire. Was this conversion not done right? They work good for the era of bike that they are on.
Quote from: whyzee79 on December 19, 2016, 12:44:25 PM
Ok, I'm a little confused as to the blue dots/spots. I have them on my bike and still have the 16" front tire. Was this conversion not done right? They work good for the era of bike that they are on.
What forks do you have is it the antidive version ?and if wich brakerotors du you use?
Yamaha monoblock blue/gold/silver spot calipers can be used on the early '84-87 FJ antidive forks, but you need adaptor plates to mount them.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/49_08_11_11_4_39_26.jpeg)
However, by the time you factor in the price of these adaptor plates (if you can find them: UK eBay) and the cost of the anti dive block off plates, you will be money ahead with just buying some '89-'93 fork lowers.
But wait, there's more...with the late model FJ fork lowers you can also run the 17" rim.
I know about the adaptor for the bluespots.I was wondering if whyzee79 mayby had bluespots fitted on antidiveforks with some other brakerotors.
For me it is wrong to change the forks and uppgrade to a 17 wheel on the 86 -87 bikes.I think it ruins the orginal look and feel of the bike.
Dont get me wrong i fully respect and understand people that like the modifications, but for me it wrong.
Then i rather buy a 88 or newer model, but i dont think they look as good as the fj 1100 84-85 and the fj1200 86-87.
I often hear complains about the brakes og the earlier bikes, i know some got a pulsating and spongy feel when braking .I think the a bit of the reason for this is because of the brakehoses ,air or mayby some warped disks, but the main reason i think is that the antidive is seized not working .On my bike i have orginal calippers with drilled brakerotors and steelbraided brakelines.I have no trouble locking up frontwheel with 2 fingers and no spongy feel when braking ( infact i once crashed into the side of a drunkdriver in a pickuptruck who came right into the main road from a sideroad fast. I had no chance to avoid him and panicbreaked locking my frontwheel causing me to crash )Not that panic breaking is good but it shows that the brakes is biting good.That bike a 1100 dident even have steelbraided hoses .Iv had spongy feeling but that time it was because of seized antidive .when i fixed my seized antidive it did go away and the brakehandle got much more firm.By the way the andtidive can easyly be fixed.
Quote from: Old Rider on December 20, 2016, 07:20:48 AM
I know about the adaptor for the bluespots.I was wondering if whyzee79 mayby had bluespots fitted on antidiveforks with some other brakerotors.
For me it is wrong to change the forks and uppgrade to a 17 wheel on the 86 -87 bikes.I think it ruins the orginal look and feel of the bike.
I understand people that do the modifications, but for me it wrong.
Then i rather buy a 88 or newer model, but i dont think they look as good as the fj 1100 84-85 and the fj1200 86-87.
I often hear complains about the brakes og the earlier bikes, i know some got a pulsating and spongy feel when braking .I think the a bit of the reason for this is because of the brakehoses and mayby some warped disks, but the main reason i think is that the antidive is seized not working .On my bike i have orginal calippers with drilled brakerotors and steelbraided brakelines.I have no trouble locking up frontwheel with 2 fingers and no spongy feel when braking ( infact i once crashed into the side of a pickuptruck who came right into the main road from a sideroad fast. I had no chance to avoid him and panicbreaked locking my frontwheel causing me to crash )That bike a 1100 dident even have steelbraided hoses .I had spongy feeling but then it was because of seized antidive .when i fixed my seized antidive it did go away and the brakehandle got much more firm.The andtidive can easyly be fixed.
Can you put some step-by-step instructions in another thread for anti-dive fixing?
On mine i first took off the topunit on the antdives keeping the brakehose on.. The piston in the lower part was sized in down position there also was rust and dirt under the rubberseal and on the lockring.
On the upper part of the antidive the pin that pushes down the piston when breaking was also not moving freely and was hard to push in.
What ive done is:First i removed the dustrubberseal on the top of the lower part. This rubbersael is glued and is hard to take off without damaging it.I had never rubberseal from another set of forks that i had that i used to replace them with.If u damage the rubberseal you can also use some rtv silicone paste .
I then used lots of wd-40 on the piston and knocking lightly on the outside of the lower antidiveunit to free up the piston.
Then i drove the bike slowly with the top of the antidive units off (Taped to outside of forks ) and braked hard several times. After a while the pistons popped up .I now was able to push them down with my thumb and lubed them more with wd-40.Then i removed the rusty lockring and used a plier to lift and push down the piston untill it slide easy. I removed the rust on the lockring with a dremel and lubed everything.
On the topunit i used wd-40 on the pushpin and used brakehandle to push them out then pushed them back in with thumb .Did this several times to free them up.
The pistons on both on upper and lower units must run easy when pushing with your thumb.The lower pistons should pop right up again when you push them down .There is a spring under them but its weak.
The topunit pushpins should be easy to push in with you thumb and go easy out again when pushing brakehandle.I know i read somwhere that you can not use
any oil like wd 40 innside the unit but has worked fine on mine.
Remeber to bleed brakes when finished. i also recomend from time to time taking off the top of the antidives and spray wd-40 innside so they dont size again.
Quote from: Old Rider on December 20, 2016, 08:12:34 AM
On mine i first took off the topunit on the antdives keeping the brakehose on.. The piston in the lower part was sized in down position there also was rust and dirt under the rubberseal and on the lockring.
On the upper part of the antidive the pin that pushes down the piston when breaking was also not moving freely and was hard to push in.
What ive done is:First i removed the dustrubberseal on the top of the lower part. This rubbersael is glued and is hard to take off without damaging it.I had never rubberseal from another set of forks that i had that i used to replace them with.If u damage the rubberseal you can also use some rtv silicone paste .
I then used lots of wd-40 on the piston and knocking lightly on the outside of the lower antidiveunit to free up the piston.
Then i drove the bike slowly with the top of the antidive units off (Taped to outside of forks ) and braked hard several times. After a while the pistons popped up .I now was able to push them down with my thumb and lubed them more with wd-40.Then i removed the rusty lockring and used a plier to lift and push down the piston untill it slide easy. I removed the rust on the lockring with a dremel and lubed everything.
On the topunit i used wd-40 on the pushpin and used brakehandle to push them out then pushed them back in with thumb .Did this several times to free them up.
The pistons on both on upper and lower units must run easy when pushing with your thumb.The lower pistons should pop right up again when you push them down .There is a spring under them but its weak.
The topunit pushpins should be easy to push in with you thumb and go easy out again when pushing brakehandle.I know i read somwhere that you can not use
any oil like wd 40 innside the unit but has worked fine on mine.
Remeber to bleed brakes when finished. i also recomend from time to time taking off the top of the antidives and spray wd-40 innside so they dont size again.
:i_am_so_happy:
"The best you've ridden is the best you know."
Upgrading to a 17 inch front wheel on my '85 remains the single most amazing change I have made on my FJ. It absolutely transformed the handling characteristics. If I was allowed only one mod, the wheel upgrade would definitely be it. Using parts from an '89 FJ, the original look is retained. As far as the "feel" it is night and day for the better.
The anti-dive is crap. Drill the damper rod and be done with it.
Quote from: balky1 on December 08, 2016, 02:27:05 AM
No one uses Metzeler Lasertecs?
i used to and would again for the FJ -- I recently did purchase front and rear for my 84 Ninja -- Metzeler Lasers --- they work well IMO
Quote from: JOMPPA10 on December 16, 2016, 12:54:41 PM
Quote from: balky1 on December 08, 2016, 02:27:05 AM
No one uses Metzeler Lasertecs?
ive use them now, not wery good but cheap they are for sure
as non radials, wont wear, pretty odd riding feel, rear woud make
odd jumps in cornering, always had to be aware in wet conditions.
btv.compound at tire is wery hard..
hope helps.
Not sure I agree with the above -- I only put Metzelers on my 86 back in the day and thought they were a great wet tire Me99 rear which if memory serves changed to Me55 ( tread did change) --- Me 33 front -- dont quote me --- they stopped them for awhile a few years back when the radials came into play so I went AVon --- but like I said in my other post bought for Ninja as it suffers from the same problem tire size
I would go with the Metzelers -- our bikes were made in the era anyways if you think about it
I have the original anti dive units installed and no adapter to the brake caliper. It is running the blue dot ones and the brake feel is pretty good for the vintage of bike so I suspect the rotor was then changed out too. It looks factory stock and maybe came off an early FZ unit. Not sure since the owner has passed away. Brakes are not spongey at all. They are also not wooden block feeling so I am happy with the performance as of now. I plan on doing the stainless line upgrade. Thanks everyone for the info.
Quote from: whyzee79 on December 26, 2016, 12:36:07 PM
I have the original anti dive units installed and no adapter to the brake caliper. It is running the blue dot ones and the brake feel is pretty good for the vintage of bike so I suspect the rotor was then changed out too. It looks factory stock and maybe came off an early FZ unit. Not sure since the owner has passed away. Brakes are not spongey at all. They are also not wooden block feeling so I am happy with the performance as of now. I plan on doing the stainless line upgrade. Thanks everyone for the info.
If I might suggest, picts of your setup would be very helpful. It would at least let us see how the "Blue Dots" were attached.
On a side note, I ran many sets of Metzler Lasertecs on my FJ before switching to the Avon Azaros. I found the Lasertecs to be great tires in both dry and wet conditions. However, I should add the caveat that I typically never "pushed it" in wet conditions. They do typically cost more than the Pirelli Sport Demons, or the Avon Azros (when they were available), however, they also usually last longer than either the Pirelli's or Avon's (greater mileage).
I'm not good with pix. I looked today and the upper bolt mount has a triangle shaped adapter and the lower bolt is in the stock hole.