This came out of one of our Police bikes at the shop today.
It's an ST-1300PA
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Misc%20Motorcycle%20Stuff/15FEEB78-7DA3-43D5-9B52-E9DB2557DAE7_zpse2wdtfpy.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Misc%20Motorcycle%20Stuff/15FEEB78-7DA3-43D5-9B52-E9DB2557DAE7_zpse2wdtfpy.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Misc%20Motorcycle%20Stuff/A6FD9C2A-4C60-4C51-8213-4A2060699924_zpswfvfnycn.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Misc%20Motorcycle%20Stuff/A6FD9C2A-4C60-4C51-8213-4A2060699924_zpswfvfnycn.jpg.html)
I swear it looks like it spent 20 hours in my Smoker! It has a nice bark on it........ :sarcastic:
If I wasn't aware that it was just removed from the bike, I would assume they lit it on fire first.
I don't know the full story of this bike, but I know it came to the shop on the flat-bed and had a write-up for "Clutch Problem".
A new rider spent a lot of time at Bandimere for the Colorado State Patrol sponsored test and tunes?! Looks like a LOT of heat - but still a lot of material left. Make sure they drop the oil pan and clean the oil pickup thoroughly. Many a drag bike has lost a rod after a clutch issue - the residue either clogs up the pickup screen or "balls up" and restricts the flow to one or more rods.
Only once I've seen worse...
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/171_02_09_13_9_09_17.jpeg)
That was an expensive mistake!
I believe the offending officer should be redeployed to driving a cruiser and never allowed on a motorcycle again.
Fred
How do you even do this?
Quote from: JPaganel on November 08, 2016, 07:15:00 PM
How do you even do this?
I am not quite sure?
Let the bike idle for hours, and then full-throttle 5th gear starts?
Maybe some miscreant dumped something through the oil filler cap while it was parked. I remember watching an IMSA race on tv years ago. One of the teams had a recurring slipping clutch and found that dumping Diet Pepsi into it cured the problem (but Diet Coke wouldn't work). So what would it do to a normal clutch? Tin foil hat theory for the day.
Maybe one of the riders keeps his fingers on the clutch just enough to engage the plates slightly enough to burn it out. Years ago (again...) my sister in law burned out two clutches in their VW Golf diesel by resting her foot on the clutch while driving. They and the dealer couldn't figure out what was happening. When she told me, that's what I immediately asked her, if she rested her foot on it. "Oh really?... Uh oh, don't tell you're brother!"
This brings to mind something I encountered on an ex- police Kaw 1000 acquired at auction
in a Californian city then imported to Canada that wound up in an East Van bike shop on my bench. The engine had a stripped cam bearing cap bolt hole. It was necessary that I remove
both cams. As I did so, it became apparent that most of the bolt holes had been heli-coiled.
Equally apparent, the fact that all the inserts still had the little break off tab more or less, intact on the bottom of said insert. The bolts , the helicoils, the bolt holes, the cylinder head all beyond repair. The road to hell is paved with good intentions,,, and helicoil inserts.
Cheers
Simon
Helicoils are OK if they are installed correctly......they are stronger then the original aluminum bolt hole. I have installed many in SOHC CB750 cam tower bolt holes when used with high performance cams. Also case cylinder stud holes in different bike engines.
Yep, we used inserts, called them "case savers" on hopped up VW engines.
(http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-khh1v/products/4118/images/12586/large-AC101019-12__93508.1421962100.1280.1280.JPG?c=2)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 16, 2016, 12:28:18 PM
Yep, we used inserts, called them "case savers" on hopped up VW engines.
(http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-khh1v/products/4118/images/12586/large-AC101019-12__93508.1421962100.1280.1280.JPG?c=2)
OK, FJ's, Miata's, old school Honda choppers, and now aircooled VW's -- what other toys are you playing with Pat?
Hey Chris, my current project is a '55 TBird. It was my dad's so it's still considered a 1 owner car. I've got the 292 out and I'm trying to fit some stainless steel valves and hardened valve seats and guides. The solid lifter engine has 10.5 compression and the oem soft valves/seats/guides will burn using the current crop of E10 unleaded fuel. I'm tired of adding cans of Octane booster (with lead) to the gas tank.
Unfortunately Ford does not make anything for this family of Y block engines (272/292/312) so I have to use Chevy (shudder) 327 valves and have them turned down to fit the Ford head. I just converted the old 6 volt positive ground system over to 12v negative ground like the later '56/57 TBirds..
My VW, CB750, MGA, MGB, Austin Healey days are well behind me... I do love that Miata 'thou.
Cheers!
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 16, 2016, 12:28:18 PM
Yep, we used inserts, called them "case savers" on hopped up VW engines.
(http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-khh1v/products/4118/images/12586/large-AC101019-12__93508.1421962100.1280.1280.JPG?c=2)
Interestingly, VW used to have a widespread problem with heads coming loose (studs turning not pulling), even on standard motors. The factory supplied fix, at the owners expense, was a kit with inserts like these and new studs. The inserts were not to provide additional strength, although they did by default, it was to allow the fitting of studs with a different thread pitch, which was determined to have been the problem. I fitted a number of them and it was an expensive job as the cases needed to be stripped and sent out.
Noel
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 16, 2016, 04:00:49 PM
Hey Chris, my current project is a '55 TBird. It was my dad's so it's still considered a 1 owner car.
Damn, Pat - you keep coming up with stuff we have in common. My Dad's on his second '55.
He had a red one when I was a kid; I always wanted it but he never would let me drive it. I got to drive the current one to a car show a couple of years ago and I found out that, apparently, humans were much shorter in 1955. My head hit the roof, I couldn't push in the clutch because my knee got jammed between the steering wheel and the door, and the performance was somewhat less than exhilarating.
Still one of the best-looking cars ever, though.
(http://[url=http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/rocklucas9/media/images_zpsckfdh5ct.jpg.html%5D%5B/URL%5D)
Noel,
The inserts pictured in your post appear to have a finer pitch on the outside (1.25 mm maybe) and perhaps 1.5 mm on the inside. This fits with what you said about the VW mod. Do my eyes deceive me,
or are these the same?
I had a mill foreman who insisted that "It's a fact that fine threads are stronger". It was pointless to argue as a little authority will trump any amount of trade qualification.I don't work at that mill anymore.
Cheers
Simon
Quote from: Earl Svorks on November 17, 2016, 04:50:48 PM
.... I had a mill foreman who insisted that "It's a fact that fine threads are stronger". It was pointless to argue as a little authority will trump any amount of trade qualification
Mechanical Engineers have figured this all out before we were born.
Size for size a fine thread is stronger than a coarse thread . This is both in tension (because of the larger stress area) and shear (because of their larger minor diameter). 2. Fine threads have also less tendency to loosen since the thread incline is smaller and hence so is the off torque.
Suggested reading:
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/faq.htm (http://www.boltscience.com/pages/faq.htm)
http://www.katonet.com/article/coarsevsfine.html (http://www.katonet.com/article/coarsevsfine.html)
http://www.eisc.com/support/coarsefine.htm (http://www.eisc.com/support/coarsefine.htm)
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=72123 (http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=72123)
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/fine-vs-coarse-thread-177132.html (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/fine-vs-coarse-thread-177132.html)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 17, 2016, 07:25:00 PM
Size for size a fine thread is stronger than a coarse thread . This is both in tension (because of the larger stress area) and shear (because of their larger minor diameter). 2. Fine threads have also less tendency to loosen since the thread incline is smaller and hence so is the off torque.
Then why is a coarse thread the default unless a particular application calls for a fine thread? :biggrin:
Noel
Ok, so you concede that fine threads are stronger?
The answer to your current question is in the links I provided you.
I know it, but it's better if you find it on your own.
Pat,
I paraphrase Noel and ask, have you ever ,even once seen an aluminum casting or forged piece that
came from a factory that had a hole tapped with fine threads?
Cheers
Simon
Here, I quote from one of the links Pat was kind enough to provide.
"In relatively low strength materials such as cast iron, aluminum, magnesium, brass, bronze, and plastic, coarse threads provide more resistance to stripping than fine or extra fine threads."
This is what I was alluding to in the matter of thread strength.
Cheers and goodnight. up early tomorrow for chiropractor. A little more "Spinal Decompression" therapy.
Off work for a full year with back problems, but I'm starting to feel better .
Simon
Quote from: Earl Svorks on November 17, 2016, 04:50:48 PM
Noel,
The inserts pictured in your post appear to have a finer pitch on the outside (1.25 mm maybe) and perhaps 1.5 mm on the inside. This fits with what you said about the VW mod. Do my eyes deceive me,
or are these the same?
Cheers
Simon
Simon, I re posted the picture Pat used several posts earlier, it was just indicative of what I was referring to. Pat might know what they are as he found the photo.
Noel
Yes, of course, course threads are less prone to stripping and cross threading and promote faster assembly....sure.
That's a different matter than saying that course threads have higher tension values or shear values than fine threads.
Math is math and numbers don't lie.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 18, 2016, 07:36:49 AM
Yes, of course, course threads are less prone to stripping and cross threading and promote faster assembly....sure.
That's a different matter than saying that course threads have higher tension values or shear values than fine threads.
Math is math and numbers don't lie.
We are arguing apples and oranges. There are different threads for different applications in harder and softer materials.The fact that you can buy both coarse and fine threads ought to tell you that neither is "best" for every single application. They each have advantages and disadvantages, mostly depending what is being threaded onto the end.
Fine threads are definitely stronger and give a higher clamping force for a given tightening torque. They are also less likely to come loose. Fine pitch threads are always the best choice where a nut is to be used.
Coarse threads are better when a blind hole is tapped into soft material. You will always find coarse threads going into aluminum castings, because fine threads would tear out of soft material much more easily.
The problem is not the bolt itself, but the strength of the material the bolt goes into. So we need both coarse and fine bolts depending on what screws on the end.
Dave
Yep, I agree.
Well said Dave,and I also agree.
Ever notice how rare it is for two mechanics to agree on just about anything ? During the years that I worked in the capacity of a Provincial Vehicle Inspector in the CVIP program,I needed to be aware of the details of the vehicle act as it applies to cars , trucks,motorcycles etc.The operation and requirements of them and their operators This led to my having to purchase copies of "The Vehicle Act" from the Queens Printer in Victoria. This
came with annual update sheets so it was always current. I read all of those legal tomes front to back more than once. In the end,and to my surprise and disappointment , most of it was by no means straight forward nor clearcut in black and white. In fact it left me thinking that really all of it appeared to have been composed and written by lawyers, for lawyers. Most of it's content open to interpretation, or argument.
Good for lawyers , not so good for safety inspectors or angry taxi owners.
Always remember what the judge will tell ya',, "ignorance of the law is no excuse"
Cheers
Simon
VIP#MO*&20
Quote from: Earl Svorks on November 18, 2016, 01:27:44 PM
......Ever notice how rare it is for two mechanics to agree on just about anything ?
Simon
VIP#MO*&20
Sorry Simon, but that's not true.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on November 18, 2016, 05:27:41 PM
Quote from: Earl Svorks on November 18, 2016, 01:27:44 PM
......Ever notice how rare it is for two mechanics to agree on just about anything ?
Simon
VIP#MO*&20
Sorry Simon, but that's not true.
Noel
OK Noel we agree on something. But ever notice how rare it is for two motorcycle riders to agree on anything mechanical ? :biggrin:
Dave
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 17, 2016, 11:15:57 PM
I know it.........
I can see that from the your post, you explain it well.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on November 17, 2016, 10:59:06 PM
Then why is a coarse thread the default unless a particular application calls for a fine thread? :biggrin:
Noel
For the reasons I posted in the links....
Read them, then you tell me....