Direct from SoCal.
I know of four of them in the US. This guys owns two of them.
Randy - RPM
A lot of guys have complained about Yamaha not offering the XJR on the North American continent. More than a few have questioned why they offer it in the UK and not Canada. I'm sure if Yamaha did sell it in Canada more than a few would have migrated to the US. It is a good looking retro bike. As Honda had mediocre sales of their retro CB1300 I think Yamaha decided sales wouldn't be that good. I would like to know how someone could get one over here and licensed with the emission laws especially in CALIFORNIA.
Dave
What a brute, and that is what I would call him, how could that motorcycle ever be female even my FJ or XR650 and my ZX900A1, all dudes! I would like to know how this Brute performs Randy, have you swung your leg over one? Does it have a similar cam profile as the FJ's, will it out muscle our FJ's? Oh the questions! What a great looking machine. :good2:
Quote from: TexasDave on September 17, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
A lot of guys have complained about Yamaha not offering the XJR on the North American continent.
Dave
Don't feel too bad Dave, the reality of the XJR is not quite as exciting as many might imagine. Retro/naked bikes are always an emotional success but that rarely translates into bikes out the door. The XJR is not a big seller.
They are only rated at 100hp, still only have a 5 speed box, have no ABS and vibrate more than a rubber mounted FJ. They are neither sports bike nor tourer, a bit like the FJ but without any weather protection. Whenever I ride a naked bike at highway speeds these days, which isn't often, I am shocked at just how uncomfortable it is. Throw in a stiff head wind and you would be hard pushed to put in a big day on one. It makes me wonder how I did so many miles on such bikes, and at great speed, when I was young ("young" is probably the clue) It's certainly not comfortable.
I personally find a sorted FJ a more practical bike and in my opinion a better looking one. Even carbies are not a big issue here with our fuel. Mine have only ever been removed to re jet and I didn't even bother to clean them while they were off.
Would I pay $15000 for a "new" FJ without a fairing? NO. Would I pay half that for a second hand one? NO. Putting that sort of money into upgrading an FJ will give you a better bike.
Sure, it's new, it's shiny and it's related to our beloved FJ's but once the novelty wears off I'm not sure what I'd do with it. If I had an XJR and an FJ both sitting in the garage, I don't know (other than a quick run to the shops) when the XJR would be my pick for the days riding.
Having said that, it remains a mystery why they were never offered to the American market, after all, they're a gazillion times better than a Harley.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on September 18, 2016, 05:40:11 AM
Quote from: TexasDave on September 17, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
A lot of guys have complained about Yamaha not offering the XJR on the North American continent.
Dave
They are only rated at 100hp, still only have a 5 speed box,
Well that answers a couple of my questions! Still wonder about torque curve, it would seem the XJR is in a mild state of tune for 1300 cc mill, epa regulations maybe the main cause among others.
The XJR's that have made their way to the US are all brought in by servicemen. They buy them in Germany for instance and they are allowed to bring them home when they are returned to the states. The emissions requirement for "North America" including Canada was the reason they were not imported.
Now that the Euro 4 emission requirements are being implemented, the 2016 XJR1300 is the final year. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15676.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15676.0)
This is the same engine as the FJ 1200 with the only difference being it is 1250cc. The cams, head, valves, crank, transmission and all other hard part are the same as the FJ used. There have been some upgrades to some parts over the years. Like transmission gears, start drive clutches, to name a couple.
No, I have not ridden this one yet. It is here to get sorted out. We rebuilt the carbs but his mechanic could not get them to "run right". I started it and found #1 cylinder stone cold...here is the source of that problem.
We are going to adjust the valves, and then get it all sorted out for the guy.
There is a test ride in the future.
Randy - RPM
Well, that mechanic failed troubleshooting 101......
In Europe it is quite popular to put an XJR 1300 engine in the FJ (a lot easier to find a low milage XJR engine)
The XJR engine is restricted by using smaller intake boots between carbs and engine. If you use the FJ boots and rejet the carbs, you can bring it up close to FJ hp specs. However, the stock XJR engine has more torque low down compared to the FJ which makes it a really nice ride even with less hp than the FJ.
It is a really good looking muscle bike :good2:
(https://cdn.yamaha-motor.eu/design-cafe/1998/1998-XJR1200-Blue_PS.jpg)
(http://www.fisker-mc.dk/CustomerData/Files/Images/Gallery/xjr1300race-g_1429/2016-yamaha-xjr1300-racer-eu-60th-anniversary-stud_5534.jpg)
Quote from: 4everFJ on September 21, 2016, 12:23:09 PM
In Europe it is quite popular to put an XJR 1300 engine in the FJ (a lot easier to find a low milage XJR engine)
The key is a carbureted XJR engine swap in the FJ.
Unfortunately the throttle body of the fuel injected XJR engine will not fit between the perimeter frame rails of the FJ. There's a reason the XJR uses a back bone frame.
I still want one though! It's the only thing I can think of that I'd be willing to replace my 89 with as a daily driver. The first thing I would do is paint it silver with the blue and white stripes like my old 650 Seca...and maybe make us some 1200 Seca decals for it...and then the engine mods would begin!
Emissions may be an issue but it probably has more to do with marketing. The retro style is probably a very small percentage of an ever decreasing demographic. Although it appeals to most of us on this site - we are part of that demographic. They are pushing the new FZ-10 as the new big-bore naked bike. And by the looks of the styling :bad: (IMHO) they are not too concerned with that demographic, despite the fact it's probably an awseome bike to ride. Another factor may be the XJR could be too expensive to build and can't meet their margin. Anything to homogenize production will reduce costs, and to have something as anachronistic as the XJR taking up space/time is a no-go. Even if sales of the XJR affected FZ-10 sales by 2%, that's probably enough for them to cancel it.
2017 Yamaha FZ-10 - FIRST RIDE REVIEW (http://www.cycleworld.com/2017-yamaha-fz-10-naked-sportbike-first-ride-motorcycle-review)
And that's the end of what could have been a beautiful friendship. :cray:
Regarding the retro style.....not sure about that. Seems like Triumph is selling a few around here. The looks of the FZ1 are pretty modern but it seems like a pretty good value and a ton of fun to ride I am betting.
Maybe retro isn't popular in US, but in Europe it is the new black..
Just look at the Yamaha 2016 'Sport heritage' range. Nine different retro models (in Europe, at least).
The used market for cafe racers and scramblers is also huge with some ridiculous prices..
I like Yamaha's sport heritage bikes. Round headlights and round clocks just look right on a bike. That means I am in the "heritage" class myself. :yes: Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on September 22, 2016, 02:15:30 AM
I like Yamaha's sport heritage bikes. Round headlights and round clocks just look right on a bike. That means I am in the "heritage" class myself. :yes: Dave
I second that.
Especially the XSR700 and XSR900 are really nice bikes with retro look and modern technology. They even have a round rear light :yes:
Quote from: Country Joe on September 21, 2016, 11:45:14 AM
Well, that mechanic failed troubleshooting 101......
[/quote
odd that it is dry.
Well, we got the XJR all dialed in. After getting the engine running properly the clutch was slipping badly. I also noticed every time I stood the bike up from the side stand, the front end would fall about two inches.
So, a new clutch and Barnett conversion installed and the forks were rebuilt. The left fork oil level was at 10" from the top of the tube and the right was 7 3/8" down. Both of the pre-load adjusters were adjusted to different rates as well. So, disassembly and rebuild back to factory specifications required. Now the front end is pretty solid. I only wish I had a set of 43mm RPM fork valves to drop in and the bike would be great.
So, my wife and went out for an afternoon ride and lunch. She is still getting adjusted to her new V-Star, but really likes it.
The XJR on the other hand is a flat out beast. It is amazing how the bike just lifts the front wheel with ease. Moderate accel in first and the wheel just carries as you control the throttle. If you snap it open then you are looking at the clouds in the sky. Shift to second and the front wheel still carries until you either let off or get to the red line. Then if you shift into third it still has a light front end as the speed climbs.
The lack of all that fairing and upper frontal weight, as well as the more upright sitting position just make the front end light on this thing...I was not expecting the big wheelie the first time it jumped up, it startled me as the headlight & handbars kept getting closer to my helmet. After that I was expecting it so I was able to use throttle control to just carry the front wheel.
The bike is fun to ride, but I do like the seating position of my FJ better.
I know the owner is going to be shocked when he gets the bike back as it has never run so good.
Randy - RPM
Hey Randy,
That FJR is one fine looking machine. Not so much the #1 plug.
What I see is a plug that was dropped just before installation, by someone that failed to look at the damn plug before installing it.I see threads without a trace of lubricant. I see a crush washer that suggests the plug was not torqued up properly. I see the appearance of the same color and texture
produced by a spark plug cleaning device, of the media blast type.
To me, this suggests there may be some other troubles with this engine. Over oiling, over fueling, weak ignition, , ? You're the man who'll get to the bottom of it.
Cheers
Simon
What kind of lubrication do you recommend for spark plugs?
I once used high temperature Never-Seize and it dried out so bad that I pulled the threads out of the head of 2 cylinders.
I was able to repair the head with Time-Serts, but now I just give the plugs a quick shot of WD-40 before installation.
I have a small tube of high temperature lube that's supposedly specifically for spark plugs. Problem is I can't get myself to trust using it.
Hey Randy, what sort of usable range does the XJR have. One of the things I always appreciated about the FJ was it's large fuel tank, which gave it long legs when getting decent fuel mileage.
Regarding lube on plug threads, I have never had a problem arise out of using Never Seize in any of it's
varieties. I'd use it more often if it didn't seem to want to migrate onto everything around it,,, you know, 'Mechanic's tracks'. That said, the best lube is the one that actually gets put onto threads. A little grease, motor oil, chain lube, graphite even. Just don't leave it dry.
A spark plug, or just about any steel threaded plug or bolt or screw that mates with a hole in an aluminum assembly has a finite lifespan. Every time the fastener is torqued up, the internal thread is stressed to the point that it can cause the aluminum to flex a tiny bit. This will work harden the material , causing it to become brittle. This will end up with the threads shearing off and coming out with the plug, or whatever threaded bit used. Evidence of this can be found when you remove an engine cover. Run a finger over the mating surface, particularly over the bolt holes.The factory puts a slight chamfer on these holes but you can often feel a burr there from the threads pulling up . In places where the fastener is frequently overtightened ,like a spark plug, guess what,,,? Hello Helicoil.
Have you ever seen what happens when a Helicoil has been put in a blind hole and buddy does not remove the little installation tang?
Cheers
Simon
Quote from: FeralRdr on October 10, 2016, 01:25:39 PM
Hey Randy, what sort of usable range does the XJR have. One of the things I always appreciated about the FJ was it's large fuel tank, which gave it long legs when getting decent fuel mileage.
I don't know, I put about 100 miles on it, but never even paid attention to the fuel gauge.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Earl Svorks on October 09, 2016, 04:45:17 PM
Hey Randy,
That FJR is one fine looking machine. Not so much the #1 plug.
What I see is a plug that was dropped just before installation, by someone that failed to look at the damn plug before installing it.I see threads without a trace of lubricant. I see a crush washer that suggests the plug was not torqued up properly. I see the appearance of the same color and texture
produced by a spark plug cleaning device, of the media blast type.
To me, this suggests there may be some other troubles with this engine. Over oiling, over fueling, weak ignition, , ? You're the man who'll get to the bottom of it.
Cheers
Simon
Simon,
Yep, the other mechanic didn't start with the basics, he blamed on the new carbs the customer just bought from me...
The gap was not completely closed, but so tight the spark was too weak to fire the fuel charge sufficiently to run at idle. When the bike revved the higher voltage would then burn the fuel load but not fully.
As far as the lubricants, they are a no-no, at least with NGK plugs: https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/spark-plug-101/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs (https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/spark-plug-101/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs)
The problem I see with anti-seize is as the combustion temps are enough to carbonize the oil of the anti-seize, the only thing left in the threads is the power metal component. that then galls the threads on the way out, pulling the weaker aluminum from the head.
Also, no they were not tightened enough to compress the sealing washer. That also does a couple of things. The plug is not tight and basically finger tight at operation temps due to expansion. The plug can then move around on the threads and also cause galling.
I cannot answer if they were cleaned, I really did not look that closely, I just properly adjusted the gap and re-installed since they were "brand new" plugs before the bike was shipped to me.
No engine troubles noted after all of the basics issues were addressed. the bike runs perfectly and the customer is happy.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on October 10, 2016, 01:57:07 PM
As far as the lubricants, they are a no-no, at least with NGK plugs: https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/spark-plug-101/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs (https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/spark-plug-101/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs)
The problem I see with anti-seize is as the combustion temps are enough to carbonize the oil of the anti-seize, the only thing left in the threads is the power metal component. that then galls the threads on the way out, pulling the weaker aluminum from the head.
Also, no they were not tightened enough to compress the sealing washer. That also does a couple of things. The plug is not tight and basically finger tight at operation temps due to expansion. The plug can then move around on the threads and also cause galling.
That's exactly what I experienced. The plugs became increasingly harder to remove until they eventually pulled the threads out of the head.
I'll bet 9 out of 10 bikes I have worked on for friends had the spark plugs too loose. The crush washer was not even deformed. Plugs were essentially hand tight.
Quote from: Earl Svorks on October 10, 2016, 01:35:29 PM
Regarding lube on plug threads, I have never had a problem arise out of using Never Seize ....
Simon
Neither have I, including one car (alloy head) I serviced for it's entire 900,000km. The biggest risk with a lubricated thread is over tightening. If you use Never Seez
and tighten to spec, it's too tight and you are on your way to ruining the thread.
On my FJ for example, I remove the plugs at approx 40,000km. Once cracked, they spin out with my fingers. As long as they are plugs I've fitted, I've never had a problem.
I've been using this product for 40 years. I imagine between Simon and myself we have a sample base of many thousands of spark plugs to draw our conclusion from.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8615/29959049950_2b3d5d6257_z.jpg)
Manufacturers are very cautious when it comes to warnings, as evidenced by the ridiculous labels seen on clothing, toys, appliances, tools etc. and the "Objects in mirror are closer......") message on your car mirrors.
Manufacturers are not giving you advice, they are covering their arse.
Noel
IMO