Hi today i have been taking the carburettors off ,the plan was to do a cleanup.That didnt work because i can not open the 4 screws that sits i bottom holding the
cup. Its the same on all 4 craburetors.I have got tools that fit perfect in the phillips screw slot but the screws gets destroyed .So then i gave up on losening the screws,and decided to just spray them with carburettorcleaner from all angels and into the drain hoses. Does that help cleaning up the worst dirt innside?
Also tok off the carburetor rubber inntakes witch has a lot of cracks because im going to replace them.I dicovered that on innside they look fine no cracks even when
squized .Can they still leak air in that state??. :scratch_one-s_head:
A bit late now but you need a JIS bit to fit the screws properly. A Philips tends to round them out. http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/)
You might have some luck with a small hammer driven impact driver and an extractor bit like this.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/ALDEN-CORP--3701P-/22-10990 (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/ALDEN-CORP--3701P-/22-10990)
http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-screwdriver-set-with-case-37530.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-screwdriver-set-with-case-37530.html)
If you can acces the damaged screw heads with a Dremal like tool then you can cut slots in them.
Or you could send them to rpmracingca.com, they rebuild carbs with stellar results. And you will get all the fasteners replaced with SST hex socket screws to make future work very easy.
You could try clamping the side of the screw head with some vice grip lock pliers and see if it'll loosen.
Yep, as Bonesy said, those vice grips are bitchen tools....You are gonna throw those soft bastards away anyway so get aggressive, bite the piss out of those JIS screw heads and see if they will turn.
If that fails you, I used a Dremel and cut a slot in the heads then used an impact driver with a flat blade tip to loosen them.
Spend $22 and buy this:
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit)
You will never have to worry about this issue again, along with all the O rings you need.
Be sure to replace those O rings on your float needle seats.
You really need this kit.
Old Rider, the best way (only way) to clean the carbs properly is to separate all the carbs. Placing them in an ultrasonic cleaner is a great method as it is non-toxic yet a very effective way to clean. They have to be taken apart to get to all those o-rings that are probably rotten after all these years. As Pat and Mark suggested, PLEASE replace all screws with the kit from RPM. As far as the rubber manifolds, they may not leak where they are showing cracking, BUT it is critical to replace the O-ring where it connects to the head.
Have fun,
Dean
As mentioned, the RPM screw kit is one of those peace of mind items. Once installed, you know you will never fight with them again.
Here is a shot of a couple installed......
Fred
+1 +++ on the screw kit. Never regretted installing them. IMO the JIS screws are pain in the ass.
George
Really love the RPM Screw kit, so another +1 on that. Not sure if mentioned, but a firm trap on the screw with a hammer and screwdriver can often "release" the stuck threads (impact driver or sacrificial screwdriver here). Just don't go swinging at the things like your are cutting fire wood, the alloy doesn't like that, which will make you swear.
Mark
Yes get the kit. I have been playing with my needle hight adjustment chasing a lean condition. (Cuz some idiot didn't set them right the last time he farted around with them. :blush:). Having the kit installed allowed me to take the caps on/off 3-4 times without any issues. My original screws were pooched to the point I had to grind a couple off with a dremel. Also makes the job quicker.
BTW - go to your local nut'n'bolts supplier and pick up a set of allen head countersunk screws for the brake/clutch master cylinder caps. Or order these Allen Head Brake Reservoir Cap Screws (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=AllenBrakeResevoirCapScrew) from RPM when you order the carb screw kit. Barely got mine off to replace them cuz they were so chewed up from using philips instead of JIS.
+1 on the RPM screw kits. Have put them on all the carbs. The first time I have to take a set apart I have them ready to replace all the crappy screws.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 04, 2016, 04:35:24 PM
Yep, as Bonesy said, those vice grips are bitchen tools....You are gonna throw those soft bastards away anyway so get aggressive......
Those screw heads are rounded, not very big and not easily gripped using vice grips in the usual manner, they just slip off.
I have found a foolproof way to get them out every time is like this....
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2883/12868434185_ab7df243dc_c.jpg)
Taking advantage of the force vice grips can apply, you can actually squeeze "flats" (arrowed) on the screws then just twist, they loosen easily.
I have tried every method many times and this seems to work best and quickest and if need be, leaves the screw reusable.
As everyone else has already said, the carb screw kit is great value at $22.
Some years ago I bought a whole bike, FJ specific, SS allen head bolt and screw kit on eBay. It came in about 6 bags with a detailed sheet in each for the location of the contents, very well packaged. it also included the screws for the master cylinders that someone mentioned, great idea. I never used most of it.
They might still be available, as I recall the price was very modest for the hundreds of pieces in it.
Noel
Great image to demonstrate the technique Noel.
No way im gonna buy that kit..... :negative: Just kidding :yahoo: of cource i have to buy that ,but for now i just want to get the bike back on its feet fast because
season is over soon here in Norway and i just want to riiiiide .Thanks for all suggestions to open those succers!
Another thing i notised on my carburetors is that the drainscrews has a small sized hose on them going up to the backside of airbox to the inntake rubbers into a little box with an adjustmentscrew on top of it. Whats that about?? i also forgot to mark where they sat.Shall they sit like the cylinder 4 carburettor on the forth airbox inntakerubber?
Quote from: Old Rider on September 05, 2016, 01:43:58 PM
No way im gonna buy that kit..... :negative: Just kidding :yahoo: of cource i have to buy that ,but for now i just want to get the bike back on its feet fast because
season is over soon here in Norway and i just want to riiiiide .Thanks for all suggestions to open those succers!
Another thing i notised on my carburetors is that the drainscrews has a small sized hose on them going up to the backside of airbox to the inntake rubbers into a little box with an adjustmentscrew on top of it. Whats that about?? i also forgot to mark where they sat.Shall they sit like the cylinder 4 carburettor on the forth airbox inntakerubber?
Can you post a picture of the hose on the drain screws and the box it goes to?
I have the carbs off the bike now but i can try to post pictures tomorrow. The hoses is about 4mm diameter and connected on the drainscrews witch look like a bleednipple with the hose connected over it. They goes up on top of the airfilterbox backside in top of the rubbers that connect the airbox and carburettors and connects to a little scuare box with a adjustmentscrew with numbers on it. I cant find any drawings of the hoses on any workshop drawings nor any partsnumbers.
Here are pictures of the hoses
That is not anything that Yamaha ever used. It looks like some sort of vacuum drawn fuel enrichment system. It appears it is pulling fuel from the bottom of the bowls. The air flow at the air box must draw the additional fuel into the mouth of the carbs.
Is there a tube hanging don in the air box?
I would be interested to see more of the screws in the float bowls as well as the underside of the adjustable fitting on the air box.
Here is what the Yamaha float bowl screw looks like.
Randy - RPM
I've never seen anything like that....
At least the bowl fittings and drain tubes would be a good idea for a drain system for storage.
{edit} OK, now I remember....that kit is called Dial-a-Jet: http://thunderproducts.com/dial-a-jet-automatic-fuel-induction-system/ (http://thunderproducts.com/dial-a-jet-automatic-fuel-induction-system/)
I recall reading about this back in the mid 90's. The consensus was that it was not an optimum solution. The ability to rejet the pilots/needles/mains for specific low, mid and high end range was much more accurate.
This kit was marketed towards folks who did not want to open their carbs and change their jets.
My advice to the Old Rider is to remove this kit, plug the holes, reinstall the float bowl drain screws (or as I said above keep the lines for a easily accessible drain system) and rejet your carbs properly.
These are great JIS screwdrivers:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/2024_23_11_15_12_08_24_1.jpeg)
Quote from: jscgdunn on September 06, 2016, 12:27:11 PM
These are great JIS screwdrivers:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/2024_23_11_15_12_08_24_1.jpeg)
Bought a set about 6 weeks ago. Great screwdrivers, should of had them years ago. :good2:
Quote from: oldktmdude on September 07, 2016, 02:19:55 AM
Quote from: jscgdunn on September 06, 2016, 12:27:11 PM
These are great JIS screwdrivers:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/2024_23_11_15_12_08_24_1.jpeg)
Bought a set about 6 weeks ago. Great screwdrivers, should of had them years ago. :good2:
Where does one find this set?
I was fortunate to find them at Princess Auto... I actually bought six sets and gave them as Xmas presents!
Look like online here:
http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/view-all-products.html (http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/view-all-products.html)
You can also find Vessel JIS screw drivers on eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vessel-700-KIT-P123-JIS-3-PC-Cushion-Gel-Handle-Cross-Tip-Screwdriver-Set-/302030556224?hash=item46526c8c40:g:HS4AAOxyY9VRSCcT&item=302030556224&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vessel-700-KIT-P123-JIS-3-PC-Cushion-Gel-Handle-Cross-Tip-Screwdriver-Set-/302030556224?hash=item46526c8c40:g:HS4AAOxyY9VRSCcT&item=302030556224&vxp=mtr)
Fred
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 06, 2016, 09:50:42 AM
That is not anything that Yamaha ever used. It looks like some sort of vacuum drawn fuel enrichment system. It appears it is pulling fuel from the bottom of the bowls. The air flow at the air box must draw the additional fuel into the mouth of the carbs.
Is there a tube hanging don in the air box?
I would be interested to see more of the screws in the float bowls as well as the underside of the adjustable fitting on the air box.
Here is what the Yamaha float bowl screw looks like.
Randy - RPM
Hi again i forgot to take pictures innside the airinntake ducts but there was a brass pipe going into the airinntake like a nossle in the end.
Todat i have replaced the carburettors and guess what it dosent start.It cranks over fast and it has spark on the plugs.The plugs was dry.
There is fuel in the carburettorbowels. I tryed spraying some carbcleaner into airfilterbox and then it fires but stops again.What can i do now??
as mentioned earlier the starnge hoses that goes from drainscrew on the carburettor and up and into the small boxes on top og airboxinntake rubbers.
I have troble to remember what order the hoses was connected.I marked 2 of then but the ink on the tape i used got off from fuelspill.
Do you think its crucial to make those hoses right placed??.Now i just conected hose from carburetor 4 to airboxinntake 4 and so on.
Quote from: jscgdunn on September 07, 2016, 10:52:25 AM
I was fortunate to find them at Princess Auto... I actually bought six sets and gave them as Xmas presents!
Look like online here:
http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/view-all-products.html (http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/view-all-products.html)
Over about five years of people online, mostly living in Ontario, saying they found Vessel brand on sale at Princess Auto, I've never seen them in the stores at any price and I go to three or four locations regularly.
And why they are not in the flyers when they are on sale or tagged on the shelf as a special item is a mystery to me. Not that things being a mystery to me is something new.
In the meantime this summer I was rummaging my drawer of way too many 1/4" shank bits and a few of the cheapest sets I have pushed to the back include ones marked PH and a bunch marked JIS, so I've had them available all this time. Probably not as good as dedicated name brand drivers. The Impacta design is a good idea. I have a mini impact holder for 1/4" bits, the size of a magic marker. Great for getting master cylinder flush screws started.
Here is a source for a set of JIS screwdrivers in London, Ontario at a reasonable price. Nice guy running a small operation. http://www.gofastinnovations.com/jisscrewdrivers.html (http://www.gofastinnovations.com/jisscrewdrivers.html)
A quick uppdate everything is fine now the engine runs smooth and with good power.Guess i have been lucky and dont need a carbrebuild this time.
Carb rebuild no, carb cleaning yes.
Good for you. :good2: