This question has been bothering me for a while and I've yet to get a conclusive answer...
Does the non-California spec 1987 FJ1200 have a rev limiter? I've heard yes, no, only the new ones, none at all...
Thanks in advance! :good2:
Yes!
now go ride it , pin it in 1st gear till you find it.
nuetral dosen't count.
Don't listen to Mark --- but if you ask me it doesn't as I have gone into the upper limits without any retardation ( apart from the rider at the time(
sc2
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 07, 2016, 05:31:59 PM
Yes!
now go ride it , pin it in 1st gear till you find it.
nuetral dosen't count.
Yeah, I think I'm good... Having some shifting issues from first to second that need investigation. Long story short, it likes to find neutral from time to time instead of second. False neutral tends to pop up as well, resulting in a brief over-rev as I try to get back into it.
Quote from: YamaHammerYT on July 07, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 07, 2016, 05:31:59 PM
Yes!
now go ride it , pin it in 1st gear till you find it.
nuetral dosen't count.
Yeah, I think I'm good... Having some shifting issues from first to second that need investigation. Long story short, it likes to find neutral from time to time instead of second. False neutral tends to pop up as well, resulting in a brief over-rev as I try to get back into it.
Have you checked the placement of your shifter? Set it so that it gets a full "throw" when you shift up, you may have it set too high.
Quote from: YamaHammerYT on July 07, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Yeah, I think I'm good... Having some shifting issues from first to second that need investigation. Long story short, it likes to find neutral from time to time instead of second. False neutral tends to pop up as well, resulting in a brief over-rev as I try to get back into it.
The Detent shift kit from RPM is
THE solution for that. Highly recommended and easy to install.
Quote from: YamaHammerYT on July 07, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Yeah, I think I'm good... Having some shifting issues from first to second that need investigation. Long story short, it likes to find neutral from time to time instead of second. False neutral tends to pop up as well, resulting in a brief over-rev as I try to get back into it.
Have you bled your clutch lately? I was having a similar issue a few yrs ago. Once the clutch was bled it disappeared. Also, if you have original rubber lines they may expand too much under pressure. Plus a sticky slave cylinder maybe. These may not allow the push rod to fully engage.
I was getting the bike serviced at a shop before a long trip, and this is what I was told re the bleeding aspect.
Bent shift forks on my '86 result in a rev-limiter like event around 7K RPM. The gear pops in and out as if the power is being cut and restored. A well known and documented problem on the early FJs. The RPM shift kit will not fix this, but it will result in smother shifts. I have the shift kit and recommend it. The 2nd gear issue requires one of two approaches. Shift short, not fun but avoids making the problem worse as the shift fork will only bend more with the added stress. Split the cases and get the gears under cut and shift forks upgraded. Then you can get your 2nd gear Kookalooo back.
I've actually been considering the shifter and the detent kit. I still need to do some diagnosing and other work here and there. Also, the clutch had been acting a bit strange when I replaced all the seals (The hydraulics were completely shot when I got the bike). It seemed to take forever to bleed, and even longer to build up pressure. Haven't had any pressure issues since as far as I can tell, but it doesn't hurt to bleed it anyway. I'm disinclined to blame the clutch, as it idles normally going down the road if I pull the clutch in, as well as at a stop. Doesn't seem to drag at all. It's most likely a bend shift fork from what I've read. Thanks for the input!
Also of note regarding the shifting issues: Sometimes when it sticks in neutral, it REALLY doesn't want to go out, and will actually grind the gears, even with the clutch in. This is rare, but it has happened once or twice. Wondering if it might be a combination of issues, actually... Time to check hydraulics. Again. :morning2:
Quote from: moparman70 on July 07, 2016, 10:12:12 PM
Don't listen to Mark --- but if you ask me it doesn't as I have gone into the upper limits without any retardation ( apart from the rider at the time(
sc2
Exactly what RPM did you reach during your retard moment? I would like to know . :mail1: :mail1:
Quote from: YamaHammerYT on July 07, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 07, 2016, 05:31:59 PM
Yes!
now go ride it , pin it in 1st gear till you find it.
neutral doesn't count.
Yeah, I think I'm good... Having some shifting issues from first to second that need investigation. Long story short, it likes to find neutral from time to time instead of second. False neutral tends to pop up as well, resulting in a brief over-rev as I try to get back into it.
Ok , here is the info. Your shift fork is bent.
The early FJ's from 84-87 and some 88's, have weak forks and bend with aggressive riding. This will result in a bent fork and second gear not holding under acceleration usually in the higher rpm's.
Once the fork is bent you must split the cases to replace it ... sorry.
The 89-93 FJ's have stronger shift forks.
with my 86 I started jumping out of 2nd gear under load about 10k rpm , never missed a shift but the pressure of the trans at that rpm did its evil work and soon it would jump out at 9k then 8k and within a couple of years 6k . I would have to wind up 1st gear then let the revs drop to 3k before engaging 2nd gear or it would hit false neutral and grind.
So even with taking it easy the problem got worse.
The solution was to split the case and replace the shift forks and have the trans gears undercut.
I wanted my trans working again so I opted for the full Monte and replaced all the gears , all the forks with beefy xj1250 ones , shift detent kit and whatever else was needed while it was apart.
It is now bulletproof and shifts like never before ,,, just awesome ...Many thanks to RPM Randy :good2:
My 86 FJ is the same as your 87 except for the paint scheme and my rev limiter kicks in at 12.5K .
There will be nay Sayers about the rev limiter and this is due to the year of FJ you have ... the early FJ's rev higher and the later ones can limit earlier around 9.5k-11k depending .
If you don't believe me ask RPM Randy and CO.
My condolences to those of you who yet to find your rev limit . perhaps one day your balls will finish dropping. :rofl2:
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 09, 2016, 01:52:03 PM
..... my rev limiter kicks in at 12.5K .
Mark, I'm not having a shot at you personally but suggesting people hold the throttle wide open until something happens seems like reckless advice.
It has always been a bit of hobby horse of mine and quotes like this are like finger nails down a blackboard....
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 07, 2016, 05:31:59 PM
now go ride it , pin it in 1st gear till you find it.
neutral doesn't count.
An FJ engine doing 12,500 rpm has a piston speed greater than an F1 engine at 18,000 rpm and each piston weighs (literally) a ton more. It is a great testament to the FJ engine's robustness that it doesn't fly apart at those revs.
There are many reasons not to over rev an engine, we all know about the inertia of the piston just after TDC on the exhaust stroke and the load on the oil, rod, bearings, piston, gudgeon etc having to reverse the pistons direction at enormous speed. The load on those components at that point is literally measured in tons.
What is not as commonly known is the limitations that piston speed places on engine lubrication, specifically ring and cylinder lubrication. Exceeding this piston speed can cause damage to the engine which may not (but can) result in immediate failure but will shorten it's life.
It's ironic that the very people who push engines to their limit, race engine builders, have the greatest understanding of this.
If you are interested in the subject, do your own research, my views appear to be on the nose, as are 3rd party references :biggrin:
I'm not wishing to buy into the discussion on the existence of rev limiters on FJ's but no manufacturer is going to fit a rev limiter that allows and engine to be revved a staggering 30% beyond it's design limitations and into a realm of engine speed that even race engine builders steer clear of, the limiter normally cuts in just after redline, for obvious reasons.
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 09, 2016, 01:52:03 PM
There will be nay Sayers about the rev limiter and this is due to the year of FJ you have ... the early FJ's rev higher and the later ones can limit earlier around 9.5k-11k depending .
Rev limiters are electronic and usually consistent. You say it changes from bike to bike "depending" ... depending on what?
Finally, it begs the question, why would you want to rev and engine so far beyond it's design limits, it stopped making power 3000 rpm ago?
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 09, 2016, 01:52:03 PM
My condolences to those of you who yet to find your rev limit . perhaps one day your balls will finish dropping. :rofl2:
It was
when my balls dropped I realised the folly and the risk of over revving an engine just for the hell of it :lol:
Mark, is it possible that being so far over redline the engine has just hit the wall and can't rev any further? I've never experienced a rev limiter so far above redline and the piston speed suggests there is no way it was by design.
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 09, 2016, 01:52:03 PM
If you don't believe me ask RPM Randy and CO.
I thought this was discussed not long ago without a definitive answer.
Noel
I have done my research on actual Running FJ motorcycles .... Of course I understand the inherent danger of overrevving any engine into the red zone. I worked as an engine machinist and builder for years along with racing the engines I had built.
when this rev limiter question started years ago even before this forum existed I found the answer for myself .... perhaps my tach is optomistic.
I do not pin it to the limiter every time I ride, that WOULD be reckless.
However you choose to ride your fj is up to you. If you never miss a shift or experience high rpm clutch slippage you are lucky.
My suggestion to the op was valid from my perspective . It was the simplest way to determine where his limiter kicked in.
So Noel , Since you claim your balls have dropped would you please post what rpm your fj's rev limiter kicks in.
Don't worry , your year FJ should be in the 9-10k range.
Oh yeah, the reason there is a difference is that there are 2 different factory ign systems for the fj.
Most of the Drag racing fj guys have switched to the dyna ign so they can lower the rev limit for launching as they bounce it off the limiter waiting on the green light.
For the rest of you reading this post , simply do what you always do when riding your fj. Wind it up till it stops making power and shift. Have Fun :good2:
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 10, 2016, 01:41:50 PM
For the rest of you reading this post , simply do what you always do when riding your fj. Wind it up till it stops making power and shift. Have Fun :good2:
The problem is my RPM 1380cc engine doesn't seem to stop making power.....it scares me. Makes me cry. Makes me whimper. 90 mph wheelies do that.
My balls, once dropped, have now receded....it is NOT funny......but sure is fun.
MOMMY!
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 10, 2016, 01:41:50 PM
However you choose to ride your fj is up to you.
Quite right Mark and the more information the better informed the choice.
Quote from: Mark Olson on July 10, 2016, 01:41:50 PM
So Noel , Since you claim your balls have dropped would you please post what rpm your fj's rev limiter kicks in.
I don't know. If flogging it, I change at 9k, if not watching closely maybe 9.5k. It's never been any higher.
Noel
When I first got my 86 I was blowing shifts left right and centre(kookaloo shifting) like a fighter that cant find his range in a brawl :lol:. Anyway I asked about the rev limiter on the FJ's cause I have never had mine kick in and I dont like to admit this but I have over reved the piss out of it easy 12500rpm and the limiter has never hit. I find my 86 laughs at me around 9 grand and begs for more. Also happy to say my shifting is much better and my timing is tight, I think my issue was overcoming the acceleration as I have never rode a plus litre bike before and I come from the dirt world hence my timing was horrible on the street machine. I find it is very hard when I ride my FJ not to ring its neck to make up for all those lost years when I could never have or afford one and only could dream and stare. I know I am not the only one.
Conclusive proof the rev limiters are real, but sometimes don't work.
At last years' shed day we had a number of bikes on a dyno.
After that, on a different day we had some of the same bikes on the same dyno.
Mine has a rev limiter that kicks in about 9.5k, others don't kick in that early and revved all the way that the dyno tech was prepared to take them. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14208.135 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14208.135)
This was confirmed by the dyno tech who out of the blue called my bike out has having a rev limiter, when the others in his opinion either didn't, or was a lot higher than he was going to go. :bomb:
Troyskie.
I'm thinkin' the "rev limiter" is valve float.
Whoops, forgot to mention, once the rev limiter kicked in on my bike, the tacho kept going up past the 10k mark.
Previously, on the road I thought I didn't have a rev limiter as I'd seen it up near 11.5k, but the multiple dyno runs were conclusive by their consistency.
I ignore the tacho at these revs, it clearly is not correct. Interestingly, the limiter kicks in consistently, whilst the tacho is still rising. I would have thought the tacho takes its info from the same source as the rev limiter.
I now shift by feel/sound (& occasionally by mood :wacko2:). I wouldn't even look at the speedo if I didn't need a license :sarcastic:.
Quote from: Burns on July 20, 2016, 02:35:14 AM
I'm thinkin' the "rev limiter" is valve float.
I can say that I have floated a few valves in my day but the FJ seems like a Jugger-naught of an engine, I have over rev-ed which I have mentioned many times on here and I have never heard the valves float even past 12 grand, believe me I dont enjoy my 1200 cc mill at 12 grand but to me these yamaha inline four's are tough as a chevy 350 or a 302 ford a cummins diesel and for you dodge fellas the old slant 6.
Having a look at the parts diagrams I found this (please see pic) This was for the 85 Fj1100. This part is NOT listed for the 1200's.
I wonder why a rev-limiter allows the revs to continue up, or at least the RPM indicator to climb when the RPMs are limited? When my power is limited and the revs keep going up it has been clutch slip. But not a cut in and out of power. Just the engine winding up higher with no Kookalooo...
Clymer manual's wiring diagrams show the limiter for '84/'85 UK models (European models in general).
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 25, 2016, 08:36:19 PM
I wonder why a rev-limiter allows the revs to continue up....
I wonder too.
Noel