I'm going to be installing a set of racetech emulators in my '89 (stock forks w/ 1.0kg straight rate Sonic springs)as soon as they arrive (garage temperature permitting) Tonight I fabricated a 27mm Allen wrench "damper rod holder" using a 18mm x 90mm hex head bolt and a 5/8" / 12pt. deep socket per the description in the FJ archives. a very excellent idea
For the emulator installation, I'm following the directions from
http://wwwfjmods.binternet.co.uk/emulators.htm (http://wwwfjmods.binternet.co.uk/emulators.htm) by Jeff Hoffman and Rich Baker.
The directions say to remove the forks from the bike. Is this necessary? I'm going to have the tank and the fairing off the bike anyway (and of course the front fender and wheel) for some other work so I'm not afraid to spill fork oil on the paint. I'm assuming (guessing, hoping)that once I remove the bolt at the bottom of the slider holding the damper rod in place, I can fish the damper rod out up the forktube with a coathanger or telescoping magnet. I guess this is where my question lies...is this possible?
My plan is:(fairing and tank are already off)
*Suspend the front end from above
*Remove the front wheel, fender brakes etc.
*Remove handlebars from fork tubes and tie off
*Loosen top triple clamp pinch bolts
*Loosen fork cap nut (carefully)
*Drain fork oil
*Remove Damper rod valve adjuster (the long d shaped rod), fork spring and spacer
*Remove locating set screw at the bottom back of the slider
*Using my new "damper rod holder" to hold the damper rod, remove bottom bolt from fork
**this is where I'm envisioning fishing out the damper rod.
* drill holes in damper rod per the instructions
*hog out the top of the damper adjuster valve to make room for the emulator
*cut the damper adjuster rod --shorter--
*Then reassemble from there-
If I'm missing anything--I'm all ears
Also on the reassembly, it says to cut about 12mm off the spacer to compensate for the thickness of the emulator. No problem, but this is assuming that the spacer I have in there is the correct length--I'm not certain it is--maybe, maybe not. how much preload should the spring have?--or, if anyone knows how far the top of the spacer is from the top of the fork tube THAT would make it easy.
One other thing--- if anyone has got this setup, when reassembling the fork, what setting is recomended for the damper rod valve? It's got three settings. I'm going to use the suggested 15w fork oil. I'm not sure how much effect this valve has now that the damper rod has been drilled out. I think the emulator works on a check valve on the rebound stroke, so I'm assuming that damper rod valve still has a function.
Thanks
Mark Martin '89
Hampden, Me
(//)
you really want to take the forks off the bike and clean them out good..... i bet a box of doughnuts there is a pile of crud in the bottom of the fork legs. and dont forget the tapered spindle is in there as well...... it may be tougher than you think to get everything flushed out and back together without removing the forks from the bike..... taking them off just aint that big a deal.
dont forget to remove the damper rod locating screw at the lower rear of the fork leg.
Frank
You will want to pull the fork legs out/off. With your description, you are literally one bolt on each leg away from removal. The next thing that will happen, you will see the yellowing of the clear coat where the sun hits and the clean shiny part where the fender protects it. Out comes the aircraft paint stripper and the polishing wheels before you get all the bits ready for re-assembly. Paddy will have to fill in the polishing detail. :D oh, also be mentally prepared for the potential of the tabs being broken on the front fender, so if this is an afternoon fix with a ride to follow, have some plastic repair or fiberglass repair kit handy. DAMHIK, but I wear my t-shirt to the rallies. :crazy: As far as I am scaring you, you will be paid back 3 fold with improvement in front end feel and satisfaction. :i_am_so_happy:
There is a home made PVC seal driver document floating on the web somewhere, I used that 'tool' too on the rebuild. I didn't see that in your notes. Think it was a write-up from our Texas carb guru... hmmm... CRS is creeping in again.
Quote from: racerman_27410 on March 01, 2010, 10:12:12 PM
you really want to take the forks off the bike and clean them out good..... i bet a box of doughnuts there is a pile of crud in the bottom of the fork legs.
Frank
YES, take them off the bike, and pull them apart and clean EVERY part w/ solvent. I am putting my emulators in my brother forks, ( I now have the Honda F3 cartridge forks...thanks to Mr Cain) so when I took the forks apart they were VERY dirty and the oil was almost black. This was with just over 3k on them.
Mike
Quote from: FeralJuggernaut on March 01, 2010, 10:35:39 PM
oh, also be mentally prepared for the potential of the tabs being broken on the front fender, so if this is an afternoon fix with a ride to follow, have some plastic repair or fiberglass repair kit handy.
No problem, they were cracked when I bought the bike and I've been repairing them every spring. Hell, it's like having a built in tourgue wrench....a little tighter, a little tighter....-CRACK--perfect!
I 've got a Superbrace ordered so I can just tighten the spacer down just hard enough to hold the fender halves (w/ a little lock tight on the bolts) and let the Superbrace do the work of holding the forks in place.
As for the adj. of the damper just put it on the fully closed position. instructions say to braze the holes closed but you can just turn it closed.
Also remove the forks and flush them and change seals and bushings.
I agree with everyone about pulling them off and apart. Good time to put in new seals anyway.
As far as intial preload, I think I've always used approx 15mm of preload. And it just so happens that this is approx the length of thread on the top cap. With the tube fully extended, the emulator in place, the spring installed, and a washer on top of the spring, measure to the top of the fork tube (initial spacer length). Then measure the top cap from the end of the threads to the preload washer (with the preload adjuster in the middle position). Subtract this amount off of your initial spacer length to get the final spacer length. Cut 2 spacers to this length. 3 decimal place accuracy is not required! This should give you about 15mm of initial preload. To ease assembly, back the preload setting down to minimum when screwing the top cap on.
Measure your intial fork oil height with the tube fully compressed and the spring out (remember to pump the tube several times to distribute the oil before measuring the level). I think the preferred starting point is approx 130mm from the top of the tube. After you do this, install the emulator and spring, fully extend the tube, and measure the oil height again. WRITE THESE NUMBERS DOWN for future reference. Future oil changes are a lot easier if you know the level with the spring in and the tube fully extended. This will keep you from having to suspend the front end. You can work on one tube at a time on the centerstand.
Finally, remember to hold the damper rod in place while torquing it down. If it moves, it will bend the locating screw.
Set original damping to maximum. The emulators are a compression damping device.
I built a support that goes under the lower frame rails. With the bike on the center stand, rock it back on the rear wheel and wedge 2 2x4s under the frame rails to hold it there. Cut a 3 degree angle on the top of the 2x4s to match the frame angle. Screw on some 2x4 cross bracing and you have a very cheap, convenient, and secure front end stand for your FJ. I'll try to post some pictures of it.
If you've got a Penske and jacked up the rear height, you'll need to run the rear wheel up on a 2x4 first and place another 2x4 under the centerstand to get enough height to get the front wheel off the ground.
DavidR.
One other thing,
Break the 10mm damper rod holding allen bolt loose while the tubes are still in the triple clamps. It's like having an extra hand holding the tube. Remember to remove the damper rod locating screw BEFORE you do this!
DavidR.
Quote from: markmartin on March 02, 2010, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: FeralJuggernaut on March 01, 2010, 10:35:39 PM
oh, also be mentally prepared for the potential of the tabs being broken on the front fender, so if this is an afternoon fix with a ride to follow, have some plastic repair or fiberglass repair kit handy.
No problem, they were cracked when I bought the bike and I've been repairing them every spring. Hell, it's like having a built in tourgue wrench....a little tighter, a little tighter....-CRACK--perfect!
I just don't seem to be able to stop myself.
If you are cracking the side tabs on the front fender it may be due to a missing spacer. If you've changed over to SS lines and you may have removed the stock line clamps that routed the rubber brake lines. These clamps acted as a spacer between the inner and outer fender halves. Without this spacer, the fender tabs will crack everytime.
DavidR.
You can find instructions for the fork seal driver (courtesy of the SlowOldGuy) in the Files section, along with a lot of other good info.
Good---no, Excellent. Thanks for all the feedback! I'm going to pull them off (after I loosen the damper rod), clean them out and replace the bushings (and seals) while I'm there. The bushings would be the only original "wear'' parts left on the forks, so now's the time-good advice. I saw a bushing driver made out of a 6" or so threaded nipple/pipe that looked like it would work. I've got to look up how to get the bushings out.
Mark O, I'll put the damper valve on the closed position. -Thanks-
DavidR –spring preload--that's just exactly what I needed to know--and with clear instructions - try finding that in a Clymers manual!! :-)
BTW are you the DavidR of the DavidR damper rod holder??
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/150_02_03_10_7_11_28.jpeg)
Quote from: markmartin on March 02, 2010, 07:21:05 PM
BTW are you the DavidR of the DavidR damper rod holder??
Yep, that would be me... simple, elegant tool, eh?
Build the fork seal driver also, it's cheap and works great! The bushings peel right off/out. The PVC driver is for fork seals, not bushings
Let me know when you need a carb kit :-)
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on March 02, 2010, 08:34:56 PM
Quote from: markmartin on March 02, 2010, 07:21:05 PM
. simple, elegant tool, eh?
DavidR.
Brilliant.
Also, I think I've got all the parts for the fork seal driver with my plumbing stuff.
Glad to know where to get a carb kit, thanks. Perhaps next year-- I'm doing front and rear suspension this year, so that'll tap me out for a while.
As for the spacer on the front fender--your hunch was correct--there are SS lines, installed by the P.O. Not sure if the brake line clamp is original or not. I'll pay very close attention next time I bolt it up to make sure I'm not tweaking the plastic. Damn P.O.'s :-)
umm, I haven't proven it myself, but I read on the internet someplace that blue locktite (any locktite?) will do bad things to your plastics, as in a fender. :morning2:
Dr. Carb... is that 3 degree 2x4 a strict requirement? when I used a 2x4 cross and a double stack of 2x2s and I don't recall that secret angle. I got oil on my rig so I'll have to go build another one anyway. :drinks:
Hey Mark, you really want the Raforth Carb Kit. Especially if you ever plan to take the tank off and look cross eyed at the carbs. They are best when picked up in person, at a rally, in the dark, when it's raining, but if you mention that you've heard about them on the FJOwners.Com website, you can get them for about $20 +/- Solar flareups. I don't get a cut of the action, just an extremely happy customer. :hi:
Quote from: markmartin on March 02, 2010, 07:21:05 PM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/150_02_03_10_7_11_28.jpeg)
You fished that bottle from the neighbor's trash, right?
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: FeralJuggernaut on March 02, 2010, 11:32:59 PM
Dr. Carb... is that 3 degree 2x4 a strict requirement? when I used a 2x4 cross and a double stack of 2x2s and I don't recall that secret angle. I got oil on my rig so I'll have to go build another one anyway.
Erich,
That's what I measured back with the stock shock, on the centerstand, and rocked back so the rear tire touches the ground. It's different now with the Penske adjusted for max ride height. I need to build another one to match the geometry with a 2x4 under the centerstand. Right now I have to shim it up and it's not as stable that way.
DavidR.
Quote from: rktmanfj on March 03, 2010, 09:33:09 AM
Quote from: markmartin on March 02, 2010, 07:21:05 PM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/150_02_03_10_7_11_28.jpeg)
You fished that bottle from the neighbor's trash, right?
Randy T
Indy
I like to think of it as 'Liquid Wrench'.
To rktmanfj, oldslowguy, FeralJuggernaut, FJ Flyer, Mark Olson, LAMike,
Thanks for the directions and advice on the front fork emulator installation. . Got the bike back together last weekend and the weather finally allowed for a 60 mile ride/commute yesterday (took the long way home from work). I installed the emulator at the factory setting--2 turns in--I backed the spring preload adjuster to the softest setting (granted, this is relative the my spacer length) and everything feels good just like that. No furthur adjustments needed for my riding style. :good2:
Thanks again
Mark
Hi Mark, in the process of doing the same work. What colour/rate spring did you use on the emulator? I have blue (40lbs/in) and yellow (64lbs/in), and want to do the job once only. BTW, heaps of great info/advice on this thread, thanks to everyone.
Cheers, Dazza
Ooops, meant to also ask David R for details on the Damper rod holder tool. Been searching and can't seem to find what it looks like/how it is made.
Cheers, Dazza
Quote from: Dazza57 on October 29, 2011, 06:14:13 PM
Hi Mark, in the process of doing the same work. What colour/rate spring did you use on the emulator? I have blue (40lbs/in) and yellow (64lbs/in), and want to do the job once only. BTW, heaps of great info/advice on this thread, thanks to everyone.
Cheers, Dazza
Yellow spring, 2 turns in. It seems to work fine at this 2 turns in setting, but I have not tried other settings. It wouldn't be hard to fiddle with, just time consuming and a little messy.
Good luck. I think you'll be happy with the results.
This is the link to DavidR's information about building a damper rod holder.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=659.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=659.0)
This is the description from that link of the tool you're looking to make.
Special Bonus – David Raforth's Fork Cap Removal ToolTM
Another special tool can be made for removing the early model fork caps. You need an
18mm (thread size) bolt about 3 inches long. (This may be hard to find at your average
hardware store, and may need to be special ordered. You could grind down an SAE bolt
head.). Next get a deep well, 5/8 inch, 12-point socket. Take a hammer and beat the
socket onto the threaded end on of the bolt. Now you have a fork cap remover that you
can use with your ratchet. With an extension, this tool also fits the top of the damper rod
down in the fork tube .
This is a picture of the tool I made from the description above:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/150_02_03_10_7_11_28.jpeg)
Thanks for that Mark, I thought there had to be a good write up on this somewhere, obviously my searchs were not worded well enuff !!
Awesome writeup.
Thanks again to all the great people on this site for all the amazing info. Seems that moditis is very contagious :dash1:
Quote from: markmartin on October 29, 2011, 07:12:18 PM
Yellow spring, 2 turns in. It seems to work fine at this 2 turns in setting, but I have not tried other settings. It wouldn't be hard to fiddle with, just time consuming and a little messy.
Mark,
It's not that time consuming. Use the center stand and only do one fork at a time. Pull the cap, spacer, and spring. Then use one of those spring loaded "grabbers" (like you use to retreive tools dropped into an inconvenient place) to pull the emulator out of the fork. Use the grabber to put the emulator back and the spring will seat it. Reinstall spring, spacer, and cap then do the other side.
DavidR.
DavidR, I very well may do that next spring. I do have this 'remove, adjust, and replace' drill planned before next season for the CRF 230 I own, as I put emulators in those forks last winter. I may do the same to the FJ.
I installed the RT emulators in the CRF230 without disassembling the forks or even removing them from the bike, by removing the damper rods with a extendable magnet. Same idea that you're suggesting. I built the appropriate size damper rod holder for that damper rod using the same logic as your design. It worked very well. I think the same could be done with the FJ, (not removing the forks) however changing the fork seals and bushings is a good thing to have done and I'm glad I did the complete job when I did mine.
Well, started the mod on the weekend and it's taken me this long to get up the balls to admit to a potential disaster. :flag_of_truce: I hand held my electric drill to drill the 5/16 holes in the damper rod (only one rod done) but the holes are not dead centre. Is this going to be a problem?
I have already decided to get the other done in a drill press, but can anyone tell me whether I have compromised the strength of this rod already?
Sorry if this is not the correct thread to post on, but seems the emulator mod requires the damper rods to be drilled, sooo . . . heeelp!
Dazza, feeling very sheepish
Just don't drill the holes too close together and you'll be okay. Leave plenty of meat between the first 2 holes and the second set (drilled 90 degrees to the first set). The only significant stress the damper rod sees is when the forks top out (like if you're trying to wheelie) and that force would pull on the mounting bolt while compressing the "top-out spring."
Of course the damper rod also sees some stress due to oil viscosity as the fork oil flows through it.
Be sure to deburr the holes you drill.
DavidR.
Well, thanks to all the help on this awesome site, finally got the emulator mod done and new constant rate springs fitted last weekend. Can't wait to see how she rides, especially with the Penske and GSXR wheel out back as well. Still a few little bits to go, braided lines and a little bit of polish here and there . . . . :good: