So, I took the first brief look into the innurds of the new to me 1993.
This looks to be a former enthusiast's bike that has fallen on hard times. Corbin seat and bags point to that, as well as the relay mod. I'm not sure yet if it's for headlight, coils, or both, but there is a pair of relays under the front fairing wired to the battery.
First things:
Top of engine is way crusty. Oil leak must have been around a good long time.
Battery is completely dead.
The PO story of carb cleaning and rebuild by a mechanic friend is questionable. Throttle does not move, looks like carbs are stuck, and the choke is sticky.
Clutch flops with no pressure whatsoever. I am going to look at a new MC and hose, and I have a slave cylinder seal kit ready.
Your new acquisition looks like a good platform to start from.
I look forward to your posts, as I'm refurbishing a couple myself.
Steve
Well, no question as to why the clutch circuit is bone dry...
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160630_150456_zps9eyo0eaf.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160630_150456_zps9eyo0eaf.jpg.html)
New hoses next to the original 1992 vintage hoses.
Figured, if I'm doing this, might as well do it right.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160630_171618_zpsj5qa00gs.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160630_171618_zpsj5qa00gs.jpg.html)
Atta boy :good:
You were smart to get blue lines. I've figured out that the plastic in the clear ones will always yellow in time (like the ones I bought! :ireful: ); colored ones will look better over time.
I think it would be cool to have a project like this progress in video form on you tube. I'd watch that like a TV show. Looking forward to seeing your progress, was the fairing missing or rotted off from the slave leaking on it for so long? That looks like its been shitty for a good while.
Quote from: Tuneforkfreak on July 04, 2016, 11:30:08 AM
I think it would be cool to have a project like this progress in video form on you tube. I'd watch that like a TV show. Looking forward to seeing your progress, was the fairing missing or rotted off from the slave leaking on it for so long? That looks like its been shitty for a good while.
Fairing was not on the bike. I think it's in one of the bags. I haven't really looked at it.
Today was washing day.
There was some serious crusticity here.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_201914_zpsvl8ai7nb.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_201914_zpsvl8ai7nb.jpg.html)
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_201943_zps8jva3rl9.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_201943_zps8jva3rl9.jpg.html)
So, after some soap and brush it turned out the engine isn't actually black...
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_213421_zpsx0az8hnq.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_213421_zpsx0az8hnq.jpg.html)
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_213434_zps5oncfy20.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_213434_zps5oncfy20.jpg.html)
Although, by the feel here I probably should replace the clutch rod seal
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_213439_zps4azkzfe9.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160704_213439_zps4azkzfe9.jpg.html)
Looks like you need some valve cover bolt gaskets also. Nice work so far. Dave
Eww that clutch rod seal looks a little outdated.
Quote from: TexasDave on July 05, 2016, 12:31:22 AM
Looks like you need some valve cover bolt gaskets also. Nice work so far. Dave
Already have the bolt seals. Gasket is en route.
Quote from: Tuneforkfreak on July 05, 2016, 08:59:31 AM
Eww that clutch rod seal looks a little outdated.
Yeah, feels a little loose, too.
The slave cylinder is not inspiring confidence.
The bore is porous. I don't know that I can buff it out to where it won't leak.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160705_214642-1_zpsy0yyxsmg.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160705_214642-1_zpsy0yyxsmg.jpg.html)
Mulling over getting a new one from Randy.
Quote from: JPaganel on July 06, 2016, 12:20:17 AM
The slave cylinder is not inspiring confidence.
The bore is porous. I don't know that I can buff it out to where it won't leak.
Mulling over getting a new one from Randy.
Get a new one, you'll be chasing your tail trying to make something of that.
Safety notice to no one in particular. Experienced tradesmen, even knowing every shortcut, tip and trick, will never use anything on a hydraulic cylinder other than a proper tool. Knowing how to use it helps too. The most they might do by hand is "wipe" it with a bit of emery, but that's it.
Some of the "cleanup" and "servicing" methods described here from time to time would make them cringe, especially on brake components.
It is also good practice to never re install cups once removed (such as for "servicing"). Over time they become mated to the bore which is something you can't match when re installing them. Probably won't fail but certainly won't last as long.
Noel
.....IMO
Noel
Well that explains the cruddy nasty look of the outside before you tore it down, that's pretty bad shape. Ive never dove into this subject but can that material be honed? I'm assuming its either magnesium or aluminum? Looks like you can see a tiny bit of the old finished surface. Not that I would do it if the new part was available, just asking the question in general.
It's aluminum.
I've been advised things ranging from emery cloth to Scotchbrite, to hones.
I have a brake service shop not too far from me, maybe I will check with them.
how does the piston look ?
If it was me , I would get a new one ...
Piston was a bit rusty, but I cleaned that off.
Heck it might be worth a shot if the rebuild kit is not that much? If it was me I'd probably try to clean it up first and at least see what the outcome was before deciding on replacement part or rebuild.
I rebuilt my slave on my '86, used Scotchbright (not sure what grit). When I got my '89 the salve was shot so I tried to rebuild it. It was past its prime, I used the rebuilt one off my '86. It is still going strong. So they can be rebuilt and some are due for the scrap bin. The cost of a new one is not that bad either.
I would expect to find a semi circle of deeper corrosion at the bottom of the bore behind the seal. If you do find that corrosion toss it in the trash.
Chris
Moving right along.
Pulled the carbs today. The reason throttle wouldn't turn was the previous owner managed to get cables on backwards. Carbs look clean, and have 42.5 pilot and 110 main. Pilots seem a bit rich for stock intake and exhaust, but who knows, it may run well.
Speaking of previous owner, he found more stuff which I picked up today. A full set of brake rotors, a chin scoop, a second set of keys, and an owners manual.
Wondering if I should change the shift shaft seal. It's greasy as hell down there, so I don't know if it leaks or not. Output shaft seal seems to be OK, no crust behind sprocket.
Also found a burr on one of the throttle cables. Probably should replace those, too.
Another interesting find from last night - the neutral switch is missing a screw. Probably should replace that, too...
Oh man I would love to read through that owners manual. Score on the extra parts. :good2:
After a quick consultation with Randy, I put in an order for 40 pilots and 112.5 mains. Also, a new slave cylinder and some miscellaneous bits.
Got into the carbs last night.
They seem to be actually clean, which is nice. Going to get new jets in and see how it goes.
Doing some more degreasing today in the sprocket area.
Also, electrical work.
Since I am replacing clutch master with an FJR one, I am also changing the clutch switch plug. The FJ plug has two wires, the FJR has three.
Here is the new plug installed next to the old one:
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/3f936ca1-ffa1-4c9b-81d8-d394712e47a6_zpsvhwipfb7.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/3f936ca1-ffa1-4c9b-81d8-d394712e47a6_zpsvhwipfb7.jpg.html)
The plug is Corsa Technic part MTW-3S
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160709_182225_zpsnchh38ip.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160709_182225_zpsnchh38ip.jpg.html)
I didn't have to replace the terminals - they are the same. I just popped them out of one plug using a piece of steel wire and popped them into the other. The correct positions are the two outer ones, and the middle should be empty.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160709_182012_zpsz5eaay7b.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160709_182012_zpsz5eaay7b.jpg.html)
This is the correct plug for the emissions connector on the right side of bike, not used in non-California models. Corsa Technic part 250ARM-2P
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160709_182118_zpsrpl8zk0p.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160709_182118_zpsrpl8zk0p.jpg.html)
This plug will be used to run a relay for a power feed to the front of the bike, where I will reconnect the headlight relays and the future heated grips, when I get them.
RPM package showed up last night, but I didn't have it in me to do any work.
Going to see about picking up a screw for the neutral switch today, too.
Bought a HF soda blaster and tried it out on the sprocket cover. Then, hit it with rattlecan engine paint.
I think the result is pretty decent.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160715_195407_zpsvdfiwgak.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160715_195407_zpsvdfiwgak.jpg.html)
Quote from: JPaganel on July 15, 2016, 10:06:42 PM
Bought a HF soda blaster and tried it out on the sprocket cover. Then, hit it with rattlecan engine paint.
I think the result is pretty decent.
Looking good for the rattle can...
Wow! That's shiny enough to be on Pat's bike! Nice work
Got new throttle cables in the mail, put them on.
Then, figured I'd check valves, since I have the cover off.
Exhaust
1 .002/.002
2 .007/.007
3 .005/.007
4 .002/.007
Intake
1 .007/.007
2 .005/.005
3 .005/.006
4 .006/.006
So, I got some tight valves and I should probably fix that before buttoning up.
Quote from: JPaganel on July 29, 2016, 06:17:08 PM
Got new throttle cables in the mail, put them on.
Then, figured I'd check valves, since I have the cover off.
So, I got some tight valves and I should probably fix that before buttoning up.
Good catch, they are easy to check when the tank is off. No expensive tools and finding out of spec valves means you can prevent top end damage. Then it is an easy step to use the hold down tool and change the valves. :good2:
Checking in on progress, did you get it running yet?
Checking valves again after 5K miles, 3 are tight (2 EX) and 7 (4 EX) are loose. Looks like I will be checking valves every oil change till they find a stable state.
Somebody made a paper boat from the page of the notepad where I was writing down my measurements, so I decided to remeasure and do it in metric.
Exhaust
1 0.19/0.12
2 0.18/0.22
3 0.14/0.19
4 0.09/0.19
Intake
1.0.19/0.19
2 0.12/0.14
3 0.16/0.16
4 0.16/0.16
Exhaust spec is 0.16-0.20
Intake spec is 0.11-0.15
So, exhaust 1B, 3A and 4A are out of spec, and intake 2A is borderline.
Checked shim sizes
1B 0.12 - 275 shim
3A 0.14 - 265 shim
4A 0.09 - 265 shim
2A 0.12 - 270 shim
Went to look at the chart. I am now confused.
Chart seems to indicate that for 1B I need to replace 275 shim with a 270. Wouldn't that make clearance smaller? Or am I reading the chart wrong?
After turning it around in my head, I got it. Thinner shim means more clearance. I was just picturing a tight valve wrong.
By the looks of it, I can swap some shims around, and I only need two. I will re-check the chart when I'm a little less tired.
After this, I need to bleed clutch, reinstall carbs, and get a new battery. Then, it's go time.
Although I am considering adding phone charger and heated grips before I button it all up.
So, what I need is this
1B 0.12 - 275 shim -> 270
3A 0.14 - 265 shim -> 260
4A 0.09 - 265 shim -> 255
2A 0.12 - 270 shim -> 265
I can swap two of them around, and what I really need is only a 260 and a 255
when you mess with your shims can you take some pics so I can see how it all works and goes together? I was curious how that tool functions and what it does, prolly gonna check my valves before next year and need to get familiar with the process.
Quote from: Tuneforkfreak on August 09, 2016, 11:33:08 AM
when you mess with your shims can you take some pics so I can see how it all works and goes together? I was curious how that tool functions and what it does, prolly gonna check my valves before next year and need to get familiar with the process.
I'm going to disappoint you a bit - I don't have that tool, and so I can't show you how it functions.
This is what I do:
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160808_203458_zpsuv1vd16w.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/1993%20FJ1200/20160808_203458_zpsuv1vd16w.jpg.html)
The blue thing sticking out of the motor is a piece of insulated solid copper electric wire. I bend it into a J shape and stick it into the cylinder. It takes a bit of fiddling to get it in between valve and seat. When you get it in and turn the cam, it holds valve open and I then use a small screwdriver and the hemostat to pull out the shim.
Quote from: Tuneforkfreak on August 09, 2016, 11:33:08 AM
when you mess with your shims can you take some pics so I can see how it all works and goes together? I was curious how that tool functions and what it does, prolly gonna check my valves before next year and need to get familiar with the process.
Look
HERE (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2154.0)
Yesterday the clutch was closed up and bled.
The shims didn't quite pan out, I'll probably get them tomorrow. After that, it's close up the engine and start reassembling.
Latest news are that valve cover is back on, new plugs are in, and a set of Renntec bars has been added.
A little more work on the right-hand inner fairing panel, fix brake master wiring, reinstall carbs, get a battery, and we might be in business.
The latest work included replacing all bulbs except turn signal with LED, getting carbs in the boots, and hammering out the bent fairing stay.
Found out batteries are not the same between 86 and 93, so I'm waiting for a new battery. Once that gets here,I'll be seeing if it runs.
Also a bit of plastic sculpting.
Put gas to it and tried to start.
Battery wasn't charged enough. And carburetors are pissing gas.
:dash1:
I hate carburetors. Now I have to pull them again, readjust...
Gah.
Why couldn't Yamaha take BMW's lead and get FI back in the mid-80's?
Regarding the carbs... You may have a stuck float or two. It's happened to me after I have worked on the carbs. Tap the float bowls with a wooden dowel and a hammer. Usually does the trick to free the floats. For some reason, they never stick again afterwards.
Well, I charged the battery and actually started the beast.
It runs pretty smooth, but I got tons of smoke from the front of exhaust. Must be the dripped-on oil and maybe some soap that didn't quite wash off burning up.
Smoked a little out the pipes, too, but cleared up. I think there must have been oil pooled from sitting. This has got to be it's first run in a year or two.
I only had a tiny drop of gas left, barely over what was in the bowls, so once that ran out, it was done. Going to pull carbs and sort float levels again, then go back to it.
It's so close to being on the road, I can smell it.
Well, I was wrong back then. It wasn't close.
Carbs were still dirty. I decided that if I haven't found the time to do it in four years, I probably won't and I sent them to RPM to get cleaned out. Thanks, Robert!
Had to find some diaphragms with no holes, too.
The shift shaft seal did need to be changed. Leaked like a bastard. Also, shifter pinch bolt was missing.
After all that, it was finally in running condition, but then I found forks leaking. And I mean really leaking. When I pulled the seals, one of them had a literal chunk missing. Took me over an hour to get all the grease off the various bits. No matter - All Balls seals courtesy of RPM, some new bushings while I was in there. Also put in new progressive rate springs.
Springs that were there were not original, since they were shorter and had PVC tube spacers. I cut some new spacers out of aluminum tube. 35mm OD is the proper tube size, if anyone is interested. Front end feels super now.
Swapped out mirrors for some CBR ones, too.
I do have a bit of a hanging idle when hot. I suspect a vacuum leak in the advance line or from the caps.
Also, ABS decided to not work and blink at me. I think it might be the pump - there is no click when you turn on the ignition. Not super important, maybe an over winter kinda project.
So, after all that, here she is on the road
Good looking bike JP. After buying a '93 I'm appreciating that color scheme. That was a looooong term project, three years between postings.
Joe
Quote from: Tuned forks on September 21, 2019, 10:37:00 PM
That was a looooong term project, three years between postings.
Joe
Life (and other bikes) interfered.
I was determined to keep at least one FJ, though.
That darned life thing gets in the way of some many worthy projects. :biggrin: I've been there and neglected that too.
Joe