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General Category => Yamaha FJ1100 / FJ1200 Running Problems => Topic started by: LimiterBash on February 22, 2016, 11:19:06 PM

Title: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on February 22, 2016, 11:19:06 PM
Hi all,

Im new to this forum. I hope Im not breaking any rules with this post.

I purchased an FJ1100 in reasonably bad condition, basically for the engine, gearbox, cdi etc. So before pulling the motor out I thought I would get it running. When I went to pick it up the guy tried to start it and it fired once or twice and backfired.

I have tested the plugs = no spark
Tested the leads = no spark
Tested the voltage at the coil = 12 volts
It has a Dyna 2000. The dyna 2000 is flashing in time with the engine turning over.
The ignition has no key, so I have hotwired it.
Checked all the fuses.

Any other ideas?

Any help will be appreciated.

Joel
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: fj1289 on February 23, 2016, 10:57:57 AM
Quote from: LimiterBash on February 22, 2016, 11:19:06 PM
Hi all,

Im new to this forum. I hope Im not breaking any rules with this post.

I purchased an FJ1100 in reasonably bad condition, basically for the engine, gearbox, cdi etc. So before pulling the motor out I thought I would get it running. When I went to pick it up the guy tried to start it and it fired once or twice and backfired.

I have tested the plugs = no spark
Tested the leads = no spark
Tested the voltage at the coil = 12 volts
It has a Dyna 2000. The dyna 2000 is flashing in time with the engine turning over.
The ignition has no key, so I have hotwired it.
Checked all the fuses.

Any other ideas?

Any help will be appreciated.

Joel

Well, if it fired once or twice and backfired - then it DID have spark.

How is the dyna 2000 wired in?  Is it still using the FJ wiring with the clutch and side stand safety switches functional?  Or was is wired as a "custom" install and bypassed the safety switches?  You can find the Dyna instructions here: http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/instruct/DDK7-1.pdf (http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/instruct/DDK7-1.pdf)

The clutch or side stand (or neutral switch) safety switches may not be working properly. 

Make sure you have a GOOD battery that is FULLY CHARGED -- weak electrics will cause you a lot of headaches while trying to trouble shoot electronic ignitions.

Also - make sure the Dyna 2000 is not in "TEST" mode - see the instructions above. 

Keep us posted with your progress - good luck! :good:

Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on February 23, 2016, 09:55:38 PM
It appears to be wired into the original loom and to be honest. I didnt knkw about the clutch switch. Does it detect neutral aswell or is the clutch needed to  be pulled in? It does have a flat battery which im jump starting so ill fully charge it. The dyna 2000 is not on test. Ill check out the wiring to the switch and bypass it if need be. Ill re-post once I look into it. Thank you for the advise  :good:
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: fj1289 on February 24, 2016, 01:20:21 PM
The stock Yamaha safety relay works off several inputs - neutral switch, side stand switch, and the clutch switch.  Mine never worked properly, so someone else here can chime in -- but it tries to keep you from starting the bike in gear (unless you pull the clutch in) and tries to keep you from riding off with the side stand down.  So there's a few different ways it can malfunction.  I had to bypass both my side stand and clutch switches to get my 89 running when I first purchased it (not running due to electrical issues...). 

Chris
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 24, 2016, 04:50:45 PM
Yep, Chris nailed it...

The clutch switch and the sidestand switch are normally open circuits, meaning when the clutch lever is out or the sidestand is down, the circuit is open.
When you pull in the clutch lever or put the sidestand up, the switches close the circuit, allowing the bike to run.
To rule out malfunctioning of these switches (and they do fail) all you have to do is a simple continuity test. Cycle the switches and see if they close the circuit. When you figure what's happening you can bypass the bad switch and close the circuit by connecting the 2 switch wires together....voilĂ  circuit closed.
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: FJmonkey on February 24, 2016, 05:16:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 24, 2016, 04:50:45 PM
When you figure what's happening you can bypass the bad switch and close the circuit by connecting the 2 switch wires together....voilĂ  circuit closed.

Once bypassed to get her running you need to make a choice. Leave it bypassed, or fix the bad switch/circuit. Having the starter engage while in gear and not have the clutch lever pulled in can toss you and bike to the ground. Riding off with the side stand down can have a similar effect. The probability of it happening is directly proportional to the number of people that will witness the event and the amount of endless teasing they can bestow upon you. Do what you need to diagnose the cause of the problem, then decide how you want to fix it. And post up when you find it to help others trouble shoot when have this problem.
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 24, 2016, 07:07:17 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 24, 2016, 05:16:00 PM
The probability of it happening is directly proportional to the number of people that will witness the event and the amount of endless teasing they can bestow upon you......

^^^ This is sooooo true Markus! :dash2:

My uncertainty is the Dyna 2000 in the mix. I seem to recall that the Dyna already bypassed these switches.

Chris, am I correct?
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on February 24, 2016, 07:07:59 PM
You guys are Legends. I solute you kind sir's. Luckily the motor is being mounted in a go kart so I wont need these safety features. I will bypass what I can. Once Its running I will be stress free. I am going to tinker with the motor all weekend so hopefully the above advise pays off  :good2:
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: fj1289 on February 25, 2016, 12:09:05 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 24, 2016, 07:07:17 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 24, 2016, 05:16:00 PM
The probability of it happening is directly proportional to the number of people that will witness the event and the amount of endless teasing they can bestow upon you......

^^^ This is sooooo true Markus! :dash2:

My uncertainty is the Dyna 2000 in the mix. I seem to recall that the Dyna already bypassed these switches.

Chris, am I correct?

Pat - the Dyna can be wired up two ways -- either through the stock wiring that keeps all the safety switches in play; or as a "custom" install that bypasses the safety switches .   

My gut still says it's the bad battery - even with jump starting it.  Mostly based on the fact it backfired previously - so it made some kind of a spark...

Chris
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: Pat Conlon on February 25, 2016, 01:11:55 AM
Ok, thanks Chris.
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on February 27, 2016, 01:55:17 AM
Ok. So I transplanted the motor. Put new earths in. Tested the leads and 1 and 4 are firing. 2 and 3 arent. I changed the coil plugs around and then 2 and 3 started firing but 1 and 4 didnt. Im guessing the coil is dead. Any other ideas?
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: Harvy on February 27, 2016, 02:27:39 AM
Could still be upstream (so to speak) of the coil plugs...... to definitively say its a coil, swap the coils themselves, leaving the plugs as they were originally.

Harvy
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on February 27, 2016, 03:12:55 AM
Ok. Ill test them soon. If it indicates its not the coil, what would it be?
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on February 27, 2016, 06:49:29 PM
Woke up this morning and test it again. This morning there is no spark at all.  :dash2: i have no idea what is going on now.
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: Harvy on February 27, 2016, 07:34:00 PM
Where are you located Joel......?

Harvy
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on February 27, 2016, 08:30:38 PM
Quote from: Harvy on February 27, 2016, 07:34:00 PM
Where are you located Joel......?

Harvy

Tasmania, Australia

To add to this. I measured the boltage to the coils and it is 11.7 volts. The battery is reading 12.4.
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: fj1289 on February 28, 2016, 11:15:40 PM
Quote from: LimiterBash on February 27, 2016, 08:30:38 PM
Quote from: Harvy on February 27, 2016, 07:34:00 PM
Where are you located Joel......?

Harvy

Tasmania, Australia

To add to this. I measured the boltage to the coils and it is 11.7 volts. The battery is reading 12.4.

I'm thinking at this point we're going to need a lot more details about the install and wiring, etc to be able to help "over the 'net"

A relay mod for the ignition coils is a common mod for the FJ since it loses some voltage going thru the the switch gear.  http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1755.msg152784#new (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1755.msg152784#new)
BUT FOR RIGHT NOW - I wouldn't complicate the troubleshooting with another change.

Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on March 01, 2016, 04:07:42 PM
Still no success. Harvy is sending me some parts to help me determine the issue. Harvy you are a legend. Once they arrive I'll post the result to hopefully help others. I have my money on either the dyna 2000 or coils. All the tests indicate the wiring is doing the job, however it will be one of the first things I tidy up once its running.
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: Harvy on March 01, 2016, 04:36:52 PM
You can thank Chris too mate.... he sold this Dyna too me a while back..... so its sort of like the shim kit..... :yahoo:

Harvy

PS posting today mate, yesterday turned into a work on the bike day for me.
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: LimiterBash on March 01, 2016, 09:21:26 PM
Quote from: Harvy on March 01, 2016, 04:36:52 PM
You can thank Chris too mate.... he sold this Dyna too me a while back..... so its sort of like the shim kit..... :yahoo:

Harvy

PS posting today mate, yesterday turned into a work on the bike day for me.

Hahaha. All good. Thanks for posting it and thanks Chris for selling it to Harvy. Dont forget to send me your bank details so I can transfer the postage to you Harvy.
Title: Re: FJ1100 - No spark
Post by: fj1289 on March 02, 2016, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: LimiterBash on March 01, 2016, 04:07:42 PM
Still no success. Harvy is sending me some parts to help me determine the issue. Harvy you are a legend. Once they arrive I'll post the result to hopefully help others. I have my money on either the dyna 2000 or coils. All the tests indicate the wiring is doing the job, however it will be one of the first things I tidy up once its running.

Harvy is definitely top notch!

Are you using the full FJ harness?  Or making a custom harness?